Moff Gideon had the ability to survive a normal attack and the ability to execute a kill himself or through a proxy (DeathTrooper Alpha and DeathTrooper Bravo) each night. Gained unblockable kill if X-Wing got destroyed.
The Death Troopers were masons who could carry out attacks for Moff if he wanted to . Also, Back-up vigilante when only one remained.
Scout Troopers were Even and Odd Day Seers. When one died who they targeted last would be transmitted over to the other Scout Trooper if they were alive. (alignment wasn't sent, literally just who was targeted)
The Client was the oddball in the group.. He was a normal Guard.
Mando + Co.'s Powers
The Mandalorian had a one-time ability to survive a normal attack. And a one-time ability to make one of the Mafia kills unblockable
Cara Dune could rolebock
Kuill could busdrive seer abilities
The Armorer could take someone down if she was Vigg'd (but she had to pick who)
IG-11 had an ability where he could take someone with him if he was voted off.
Neutral Powers
Greef could choose to add +2 to his vote if he wanted to, he could also reverse seer his ability to anyone. They would see him with 2 loyal Hunters behind him or 1 Healthy Hunter and 1 Injured Hunter (if the guild member population had been lowered)
*his ability went to +1 if the guild population went 50% or below their initial numbers.
From my limited experience I'd say Mama and Gizzy tend to be day 1'd most.
General thoughts on the game below:
Good: The theme and the narration. Really liked the village being the bad guys, the fact we were red kept throwing more for a loop but it gave for some fun fluff narrative. The specials all had some neat twists.
Bad: I mentioned on the last day but due to a lot of factors it was hard to get involved in this as a normal villager. +2 vote manip when most people only get one vote kind of took the importance out of the one action that could be taken. Also, with the staggering number of nightly kills the vote kill was also less important, leaving most of the game operating in the specials nightly actions.
Balance does seem to have been an issue, two mafia kills with a full compliment of mafia, each of whom had special powers and some retribution kills as well, I am having a hard time seeing a village win. Looking over things, there was nothing we could have done that final day to have won, in the end IG would always have retributioned their vote.
Interesting: I liked the stormtrooper/bounty hunter dynamic. Two sides of the village made for some interesting speculation. I would hope games like this in the future would do more with that, rather than just impacting a neutrals power.
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AssuranIs swinging on the SpiralRegistered Userregular
edited April 2020
Blue, we have faction games often and it's kinda my calling card when I run. I just haven't run a APhalla in a couple years.
I feel like vote minap isn't a great power to give to a survival neutral, because even if the village believed him, there's nothing stopping the mafia from threatening him to vote with them, forcing the village to vote them out anyway.
My friend is working on a roguelike game you can play if you want to. (It has free demo)
I feel like vote minap isn't a great power to give to a survival neutral, because even if the village believed him, there's nothing stopping the mafia from threatening him to vote with them, forcing the village to vote them out anyway.
We were actually starting to talk about reaching out to GG to recruit him once he revealed. The vote flipped onto him too quickly to be able to do anything with that though.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
I feel like vote minap isn't a great power to give to a survival neutral, because even if the village believed him, there's nothing stopping the mafia from threatening him to vote with them, forcing the village to vote them out anyway.
We were actually starting to talk about reaching out to GG to recruit him once he revealed. The vote flipped onto him too quickly to be able to do anything with that though.
Mafia or not, my sentiment was serious about that. Voting out the neutral is never a good idea when the mafia has you on the ropes.
A Tie vote in terms of last day was only method of victory for village along with being perfect following that.
4 vs 7 = (two mafia somehow die to vote) 2 vs 5* = either 1 vs 2 or 1 vs 1 (which CJ being in the game could make possible even in that scenario.). IF In that scenario it had been 2 villagers vs CJ- the village would have won. Since the mafia kills would't go off. You'd have a similar situation had say h3 and cj been tied (it would become 2 vs 4. then assuming another mafia is removed : 1 vs 2 .Chances were low, since it would have required the mafia to be either a) inactive or b) scared and willing to play along. But the chance still existed.
The village had a vigilante who could survive a normal hit and knew the identity of his back-up vigilantes. Thus could avoid roleblocking. That's pretty damn powerful....considering most people can win with that trio. *It's also swingy considering that's just how vigi's are. The villlage had bad luck in general. And just because the mafia had 2 potential trigger kills didn't mean they would go off (esp. The Armorer's).
I feel like vote minap isn't a great power to give to a survival neutral, because even if the village believed him, there's nothing stopping the mafia from threatening him to vote with them, forcing the village to vote them out anyway.
We were actually starting to talk about reaching out to GG to recruit him once he revealed. The vote flipped onto him too quickly to be able to do anything with that though.
Mafia or not, my sentiment was serious about that. Voting out the neutral is never a good idea when the mafia has you on the ropes.
Truthfully didn't think they were neutral.
....whoops?
Honestly I think we may have had a better chance until the day that both Lucedes and Sir Fab died the same night . I could see the trainwreck happening, but didn't know what to do. I PMed both trying to get one of them to say something in the thread, but they were both napping or some shenanigans like that :P . I gambled that it'd be best to just lose Lucedes rather than exposing myself, and then Sir Fab got hit by the (presumably unblockable?) kill the same night which meant we had no network again... Then I died straight-up the next night so the village didn't have any vigs at all...
Edit: hahaha wow, they were this close to killing me that same night! Y'all woulda lost your entire 3-special vig squad and the network in one night
Edit2: Oh and I said this via PM already, but thanks for running Egos! I had fun!
I feel like vote minap isn't a great power to give to a survival neutral, because even if the village believed him, there's nothing stopping the mafia from threatening him to vote with them, forcing the village to vote them out anyway.
We were actually starting to talk about reaching out to GG to recruit him once he revealed. The vote flipped onto him too quickly to be able to do anything with that though.
Mafia or not, my sentiment was serious about that. Voting out the neutral is never a good idea when the mafia has you on the ropes.
To be fair GG got shalmelo killed. I could see where people would think he was just using neutral as a cover.
I feel like vote minap isn't a great power to give to a survival neutral, because even if the village believed him, there's nothing stopping the mafia from threatening him to vote with them, forcing the village to vote them out anyway.
Well he didn't have to use the manipulation power. The idea with Greef and it didn't play out was that he would reverse seer his ability and attempt to curry favor with whoever he thought was in his best interest. He only used the vote manipulation to kill shalmelo.. he never used the ability again.
But I'm a bit a curious why would the mafia threatening to vote him out force the village to vote him out? I may just be tired.
The mafia didn't need to threaten to vote him out, they could have threaten to vig him unless he used his vote minap for their purposes, essentially converting him and forcing the village to vote him out anyway.
My friend is working on a roguelike game you can play if you want to. (It has free demo)
The survival neutral just didn't need to use the vote manip power.
If they hadn't, the Mafia wouldn't have known to strong-arm then when he reveals as neutral, anymore than any other neutral.
I'm pretty ok with having offed GG, as they deliberately shortened the game to help the Mafia win, and at that point the village has to vote you out regardless of your actual wincon.
GG made his bed and had to lie in it
I feel like vote minap isn't a great power to give to a survival neutral, because even if the village believed him, there's nothing stopping the mafia from threatening him to vote with them, forcing the village to vote them out anyway.
Well he didn't have to use the manipulation power. The idea with Greef and it didn't play out was that he would reverse seer his ability and attempt to curry favor with whoever he thought was in his best interest. He only used the vote manipulation to kill shalmelo.. he never used the ability again.
But I'm a bit a curious why would the mafia threatening to vote him out force the village to vote him out? I may just be tired.
Mafia threaten neutral to vote WITH them (presuming threat of mafia kill) forcing the village to kill them. This, is general very difficult to do unless the mafia are almost assuredly going to win.
But if mafia victory was almost assured...why would the village go for the neutral? Especially if the neutral didn't have to use their power . Killing the neutral at such a late point would seem petty and a waste for the mafia also, no? Why get rid of somehow who doesn't need you gone?
The survival neutral just didn't need to use the vote manip power.
If they hadn't, the Mafia wouldn't have known to strong-arm then when he reveals as neutral, anymore than any other neutral.
And if GG hadn't gotten shalmelo killed, I would imagine people would be more willing to buy his claim. In terms of this particular set of circumstances...
But if mafia victory was almost assured...why would the village go for the neutral? Especially if the neutral didn't have to use their power . Killing the neutral at such a late point would seem petty and a waste for the mafia also, no? Why get rid of somehow who doesn't need you gone?
The survival neutral just didn't need to use the vote manip power.
If they hadn't, the Mafia wouldn't have known to strong-arm then when he reveals as neutral, anymore than any other neutral.
And if GG hadn't gotten shalmelo killed, I would imagine people would be more willing to buy his claim. In terms of this particular set of circumstances...
I believe the hunt the neutral point of view is you get rid of them before they become a liability when the vote would otherwise most likely hit another villager. I have found most neutrals end up wanting to be village biases though so I tend to support them and think vote records are more important in the long run even if the early odds are bad.
In this specific case, assuming the neutral is now working with the mafia, then the village needs to kill them off BECAUSE their vote matters potentially three times as much as anyone else's. It was only twice but that's still powerful when there are only 11 people.
Generally, an outed survival neutral with an ability is considered risky to the village. The mafia can (secretly) hold that neutral's win condition hostage unless they go against the village. In practice not sure that actually happens often....
In this specific case, assuming the neutral is now working with the mafia, then the village needs to kill them off BECAUSE their vote matters potentially three times as much as anyone else's. It was only twice but that's still powerful when there are only 11 people.
They don't NEED to do anything. GG had the option not to use his ability and could show people that. A true neutral would just avoid the wagons toward the end. And he was a true survivor neutral and just that , I just don't think I made that explicit enough to him. And thus he made comments and took actions that didn't make sense for a pure survivor neutral (it makes sense if he thought someone might be hunting him ).
If the idea is more "The village had little else to go on", yeah that was true since the network got decimated and went inactive.
Generally, an outed survival neutral with an ability is considered risky to the village. The mafia can (secretly) hold that neutral's win condition hostage unless they go against the village. In practice not sure that actually happens often....
Suffer not a Neutral Hunter to Live
*Mafia can hold a neutral hostage, but I think most would see it as a waste of a kill. Both parties in theory know actively hurting the other doesn't particularly help them. Unless the neutral is decidedly not playing as a neutral.
A village network seems to have more incentive to threaten a neutral, since better to lose them than a villager. Esp. if unsure they are a real neutral. ((which could force the mafia's hand))
Not saying the role was perfect by a long shot. But the game was swingy: the Mandalorian could have been voted off early, Gideon might not have been forced to publicly expose themselves, GG could have been accidentally killed very early, etc.. Lots of things could have happened and unfortunately outside circumstances made the Perfect Storm for/against the village.
the mafia also had good aim with their kills generally
...
GG could have won day 1, but tied the vote instead.
Just needed to say he could reverse seer his neutral-ness in thread, and spend the rest of the game convincing people.
I guess he did think he'd die if he revealed though. Unless he was lying about the multi-faction idea.
My reverse didn't say I was neutral, just that I had "two bodyguards (votes)".
In this specific case, assuming the neutral is now working with the mafia, then the village needs to kill them off BECAUSE their vote matters potentially three times as much as anyone else's. It was only twice but that's still powerful when there are only 11 people.
They don't NEED to do anything. GG had the option not to use his ability and could show people that. A true neutral would just avoid the wagons toward the end. And he was a true survivor neutral and just that , I just don't think I made that explicit enough to him. And thus he made comments and took actions that didn't make sense for a pure survivor neutral (it makes sense if he thought someone might be hunting him ).
If the idea is more "The village had little else to go on", yeah that was true since the network got decimated and went inactive.
(And his vote was +1 at the time.)
If the best play was not to use my power, then that power is useless.
Another issue with the role was tying my power to a village role. It gave me no reason to work against the village, and I even tried to explain that but everyone was assholes about me using my powers day one.
In this specific case, assuming the neutral is now working with the mafia, then the village needs to kill them off BECAUSE their vote matters potentially three times as much as anyone else's. It was only twice but that's still powerful when there are only 11 people.
They don't NEED to do anything. GG had the option not to use his ability and could show people that. A true neutral would just avoid the wagons toward the end. And he was a true survivor neutral and just that , I just don't think I made that explicit enough to him. And thus he made comments and took actions that didn't make sense for a pure survivor neutral (it makes sense if he thought someone might be hunting him ).
If the idea is more "The village had little else to go on", yeah that was true since the network got decimated and went inactive.
(And his vote was +1 at the time.)
If the best play was not to use my power, then that power is useless.
The best play would have been not to have tied the vote on Day 1. That doesn't mean the power was useless.
The Guild Member aspect was a mistake. Issue of my initial design being toned down and sadly prioritizing Lore over Mechanics in some respects.
In this specific case, assuming the neutral is now working with the mafia, then the village needs to kill them off BECAUSE their vote matters potentially three times as much as anyone else's. It was only twice but that's still powerful when there are only 11 people.
They don't NEED to do anything. GG had the option not to use his ability and could show people that. A true neutral would just avoid the wagons toward the end. And he was a true survivor neutral and just that , I just don't think I made that explicit enough to him. And thus he made comments and took actions that didn't make sense for a pure survivor neutral (it makes sense if he thought someone might be hunting him ).
If the idea is more "The village had little else to go on", yeah that was true since the network got decimated and went inactive.
(And his vote was +1 at the time.)
If the best play was not to use my power, then that power is useless.
The best play would have been not to have tied the vote on Day 1. That doesn't mean the power was useless.
But it wasn't. No one had any information on anyone or even how ties on Day 1. If shalmelo had been mafia, I would have looked better, but I had as much chance to hit mafia as anyone else. So it wasn't a bad play. But again, the issue with the role was it wasn't a village special role. I was the head of the Bounty Hunter Guild. My powers are tied to the number of Guild Members, villagers, left. My reverse power only told people that I was a vote manipulatior. It shouldn't have been a neutral role from the start. I understand why you did that, because of the show's lore, but it was a bad role. It was either use my power and hope for the best or don't use it and be nothing.
Questions I would have clarified. I should have clarified the tie without people asking. But my mind has been elsewhere.
And yes it was a sucky role with the Guild Member aspect. There was more to the role originally and I changed bits of last minute due to the fact that so few had seen the show. And yes I didn't do a great job of it.
This is the last game I'll be hosting. I really just wanted to get something out there for people. I really am sorry to the people, this game added further frustration to during these times.
Questions I would have clarified. I should have clarified the tie without people asking. But my mind has been elsewhere.
And yes it was a sucky role with the Guild Member aspect. There was more to the role originally and I changed bits of last minute due to the fact that so few had seen the show. And yes I didn't do a great job of it.
This is the last game I'll be hosting. I really just wanted to get something out there for people. I really am sorry to the people, this game added further frustration to during these times.
Don't quit hosting because of a bad game. You can't see a design flaw sometimes until it's tested. I'm not giving you shit about the role, just stating why it was bad for future reference.
Apologies for not giving this game the attention it deserves. You'd think with the quarantine going on I'd have nothing but time for Phalla but in reality it's really thrown my wife and I for a loop.
Sadly, ID'ing H3K as mafia (sorry I couldn't explain why you were suspicious better, it was just a little too much like an impression of a helpful villager rather than actually a helpful villager) is balanced by forcing the village to waste a shot on me
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Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Austin - Cara Dune
MamaWolf - The Armorer
CJ - IG-88
Assuran - Kuill
Would anyone care for some tea?
Thanks for running @Egos it was fun even for just a day!!
Congrats, you nefarious do gooders
Thanks for running this @Egos
Glad the child survived!
General thoughts on the game below:
Bad: I mentioned on the last day but due to a lot of factors it was hard to get involved in this as a normal villager. +2 vote manip when most people only get one vote kind of took the importance out of the one action that could be taken. Also, with the staggering number of nightly kills the vote kill was also less important, leaving most of the game operating in the specials nightly actions.
Balance does seem to have been an issue, two mafia kills with a full compliment of mafia, each of whom had special powers and some retribution kills as well, I am having a hard time seeing a village win. Looking over things, there was nothing we could have done that final day to have won, in the end IG would always have retributioned their vote.
Interesting: I liked the stormtrooper/bounty hunter dynamic. Two sides of the village made for some interesting speculation. I would hope games like this in the future would do more with that, rather than just impacting a neutrals power.
Thanks for running @Egos
I never know how to play as mafia and feel I am bad at it.
Edit: Apparently it's been 4 years since I ran. Time flies when you're getting older.
We were actually starting to talk about reaching out to GG to recruit him once he revealed. The vote flipped onto him too quickly to be able to do anything with that though.
Mafia or not, my sentiment was serious about that. Voting out the neutral is never a good idea when the mafia has you on the ropes.
4 vs 7 = (two mafia somehow die to vote) 2 vs 5* = either 1 vs 2 or 1 vs 1 (which CJ being in the game could make possible even in that scenario.). IF In that scenario it had been 2 villagers vs CJ- the village would have won. Since the mafia kills would't go off. You'd have a similar situation had say h3 and cj been tied (it would become 2 vs 4. then assuming another mafia is removed : 1 vs 2 .Chances were low, since it would have required the mafia to be either a) inactive or b) scared and willing to play along. But the chance still existed.
The village had a vigilante who could survive a normal hit and knew the identity of his back-up vigilantes. Thus could avoid roleblocking. That's pretty damn powerful....considering most people can win with that trio. *It's also swingy considering that's just how vigi's are. The villlage had bad luck in general. And just because the mafia had 2 potential trigger kills didn't mean they would go off (esp. The Armorer's).
Truthfully didn't think they were neutral.
....whoops?
Honestly I think we may have had a better chance until the day that both Lucedes and Sir Fab died the same night
Edit: hahaha wow, they were this close to killing me that same night! Y'all woulda lost your entire 3-special vig squad and the network in one night
Edit2: Oh and I said this via PM already, but thanks for running Egos! I had fun!
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To be fair GG got shalmelo killed. I could see where people would think he was just using neutral as a cover.
Well he didn't have to use the manipulation power. The idea with Greef and it didn't play out was that he would reverse seer his ability and attempt to curry favor with whoever he thought was in his best interest. He only used the vote manipulation to kill shalmelo.. he never used the ability again.
But I'm a bit a curious why would the mafia threatening to vote him out force the village to vote him out? I may just be tired.
If they hadn't, the Mafia wouldn't have known to strong-arm then when he reveals as neutral, anymore than any other neutral.
I'm pretty ok with having offed GG, as they deliberately shortened the game to help the Mafia win, and at that point the village has to vote you out regardless of your actual wincon.
GG made his bed and had to lie in it
Mafia threaten neutral to vote WITH them (presuming threat of mafia kill) forcing the village to kill them. This, is general very difficult to do unless the mafia are almost assuredly going to win.
I'm more of this mind
And if GG hadn't gotten shalmelo killed, I would imagine people would be more willing to buy his claim. In terms of this particular set of circumstances...
I believe the hunt the neutral point of view is you get rid of them before they become a liability when the vote would otherwise most likely hit another villager. I have found most neutrals end up wanting to be village biases though so I tend to support them and think vote records are more important in the long run even if the early odds are bad.
In this specific case, assuming the neutral is now working with the mafia, then the village needs to kill them off BECAUSE their vote matters potentially three times as much as anyone else's. It was only twice but that's still powerful when there are only 11 people.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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They don't NEED to do anything. GG had the option not to use his ability and could show people that. A true neutral would just avoid the wagons toward the end. And he was a true survivor neutral and just that , I just don't think I made that explicit enough to him. And thus he made comments and took actions that didn't make sense for a pure survivor neutral (it makes sense if he thought someone might be hunting him ).
If the idea is more "The village had little else to go on", yeah that was true since the network got decimated and went inactive.
(And his vote was +1 at the time.)
Suffer not a Neutral Hunter to Live
*Mafia can hold a neutral hostage, but I think most would see it as a waste of a kill. Both parties in theory know actively hurting the other doesn't particularly help them. Unless the neutral is decidedly not playing as a neutral.
A village network seems to have more incentive to threaten a neutral, since better to lose them than a villager. Esp. if unsure they are a real neutral. ((which could force the mafia's hand))
My reverse didn't say I was neutral, just that I had "two bodyguards (votes)".
If the best play was not to use my power, then that power is useless.
Another issue with the role was tying my power to a village role. It gave me no reason to work against the village, and I even tried to explain that but everyone was assholes about me using my powers day one.
The best play would have been not to have tied the vote on Day 1. That doesn't mean the power was useless.
But it wasn't. No one had any information on anyone or even how ties on Day 1. If shalmelo had been mafia, I would have looked better, but I had as much chance to hit mafia as anyone else. So it wasn't a bad play. But again, the issue with the role was it wasn't a village special role. I was the head of the Bounty Hunter Guild. My powers are tied to the number of Guild Members, villagers, left. My reverse power only told people that I was a vote manipulatior. It shouldn't have been a neutral role from the start. I understand why you did that, because of the show's lore, but it was a bad role. It was either use my power and hope for the best or don't use it and be nothing.
And yes it was a sucky role with the Guild Member aspect. There was more to the role originally and I changed bits of last minute due to the fact that so few had seen the show. And yes I didn't do a great job of it.
Don't quit hosting because of a bad game. You can't see a design flaw sometimes until it's tested. I'm not giving you shit about the role, just stating why it was bad for future reference.
Again, thank you for running this @Egos. The fates know my own attempts to run a phalla did not go well at all.
Island Name: Felinefine
Neutral roles for everyone!
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Sadly, ID'ing H3K as mafia (sorry I couldn't explain why you were suspicious better, it was just a little too much like an impression of a helpful villager rather than actually a helpful villager) is balanced by forcing the village to waste a shot on me