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The Battle Over Voting Rights (also Gerrymandering)

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Posts

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Openly talking about who gets to vote as a tactic for electoral advantage is an old tradition in the US and I think the GOP may be proved right that openly saying it again does nothing to erode their base

    Yes it will motivate their opposition, but they’ve been successful enough so far to disenfranchise enough folks to still come ahead

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular

    "and for whatever reason, doesn’t work out well for Republicans"
    It is amazing how impossible it is to just pretend it is totally only about voter fraud and not at all voter suppression.

  • HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    Taximes wrote: »
    What is unique about the Wisconsin situation that SCOTUS shut it down (other than the literal/procedural answer that the lower courts elevated it to SCOTUS)?

    Why was this an issue in Wisconsin but not any of the numerous other states that have postponed their primaries? Does this decision potentially impact any other states with delays?

    Edit: I know they had a WI supreme court seat on the ballot too, as a motive for fuckery, but I guess what I'm asking is: is there even any fig leaf to justify this, or is it literally just, "Wisconsin has to vote during the pandemic because it'll probably win us that supreme court seat. Ohio and Georgia can delay or whatever because there's no races we care about there."

    Other states have state laws granting the executive the power to postpone elections in the event of an emergency. WI’s emergency power laws, iirc, are silent on the issue. The WI SC’s engaged in some motivated reasoning to get from silence —> It is not Statutorily granted.

    As for SCOTUS, no other state has had a suit brought in federal court asking for emergency injunctive relief on short notice right before an election, had that relief granted by a court, or had that suit OPPOSED, and then APPEALED ALL THE WAY UP. Other states, again, either grant authority to the governor or the election commissions to modify election rules in the event of an emergency. Here a court modified the election rules. So SCOTUS has the power to review what that court does and throw it out.

    But really, none of this happens unless there is determined, well resourced opposition to propositions like “we should not have to make voters risk catastrophic public health in order to exercise their right to vote”

    3DS: 2165 - 6538 - 3417
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  • Shazkar ShadowstormShazkar Shadowstorm Registered User regular


    it looks like this was not posted yet

    it is trump talking about how mail in voting is "corrupt" and also early voting, "a lot of bad things can happen"

    (though he himself voted by absentee ballot)

    poo
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Early voting sadly does not have a dem lean

    Surprise, people who can’t afford to vote on Election Day also have trouble voting during early voting periods, which are usually during restricted hours and a central location vs dispersed precincts

    Mail in voting is actually well-controlled because there’s already a record for every eligible voter, vs relying on decentralized volunteer poll workers at each precinct capturing this

    Sure I could fill out my wife’s ballot for her and I guess forge her signature? There’s a paper trail to dispute this though so...

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    The strongest argument against all mail voting is that it can eliminate the secret ballot within households and that can be another vector for domestic abuse. The strongest arguments in favor of it are literally everything else.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    He should just say because I'm white and rich.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    What legal recourse is there for Wisconsinites who feel their election is compromised enough that the results are illegitimate?

    Convince your fellow citizens you are correct and either Recall the offenders, or vote them out next election.

    I could convince a decent majority of Wisconsinites to do that and the GOP could still win very solid a majority of the legislator

    Can you elaborate on this? I'm guessing it's to do with gerrymandering and voter disenfranchisement.

  • EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    They'll find that won't work out well for them at all. Dumb fucks really should get the fuck out of their bubble and read up on history because most of the shit stains like them in the past usually got burned pretty badly; especially, when the economy goes to shit and they manage to piss off the active duty military.

    I'm looking at history and seeing nothing but strongmen and fascist parties getting rewarded for this behavior

    "and the morning stars I have seen
    and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    What legal recourse is there for Wisconsinites who feel their election is compromised enough that the results are illegitimate?

    Convince your fellow citizens you are correct and either Recall the offenders, or vote them out next election.

    I could convince a decent majority of Wisconsinites to do that and the GOP could still win very solid a majority of the legislator

    Can you elaborate on this? I'm guessing it's to do with gerrymandering and voter disenfranchisement.

    The WI GOP won ~35% of the vote in the last legislative election.

    They hold a majority of seats in the Legislature.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    What legal recourse is there for Wisconsinites who feel their election is compromised enough that the results are illegitimate?

    Convince your fellow citizens you are correct and either Recall the offenders, or vote them out next election.

    I could convince a decent majority of Wisconsinites to do that and the GOP could still win very solid a majority of the legislator

    Can you elaborate on this? I'm guessing it's to do with gerrymandering and voter disenfranchisement.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Wisconsin_State_Assembly_election
    UksMFgr.png?1
    Especially look at both the percentage changes and seat changes.

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited April 2020

    Is there some hack argument for there being a difference between a huge number of absentee ballots and all mail-in elections when it comes to fraud outside of old people voting Republican more so it is OK for them to do that?

    Couscous on
  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    edited April 2020
    Couscous wrote: »

    Is there some hack argument for there being a difference between a huge number of absentee ballots and all mail-in elections when it comes to fraud outside of old people voting Republican more so it is OK for them to do that?

    At least he is warning us that he will have his campaign steal the mailed ballots, fill them out, and send them back

    Veevee on
  • KrieghundKrieghund Registered User regular
    Prohass wrote: »
    I wanna scream at republicans, hey conservatives can still get into power even if everyone votes! Look at Australia! Mandatory voting and we have a conservative government! I mean yeah you’ll have to shave some of the edges off, maybe not be quite as obviously self serving and corrupt wait where are you going you can still be pretty awful!

    Except the Republican party isn't a conservative party anymore. It's been radicalizing itself for the past 30 years, and at the moment, the mainstream Democrats are closer to what conservatism used to be. Although now that the Democratic party has decided to follow suit, I don't think the conservatives are going to have a party to look to in about 15 years.

  • MillMill Registered User regular
    Eddy wrote: »
    Mill wrote: »
    They'll find that won't work out well for them at all. Dumb fucks really should get the fuck out of their bubble and read up on history because most of the shit stains like them in the past usually got burned pretty badly; especially, when the economy goes to shit and they manage to piss off the active duty military.

    I'm looking at history and seeing nothing but strongmen and fascist parties getting rewarded for this behavior

    In cases where a very angry public doesn't run their equivalent of rat fucking republicans out of power, sometimes in violent ways. The strongman that gets into power isn't the chucklefucks that shit all over the idea democracy, it's usually some brutish ghoul within there ranks that realizes now that being polite is no longer required, they'll snap some necks and take the top spot.

  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    Veevee wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »

    Is there some hack argument for there being a difference between a huge number of absentee ballots and all mail-in elections when it comes to fraud outside of old people voting Republican more so it is OK for them to do that?

    At least he is warning us that he will have his campaign steal the mailed ballots, fill them out, and send them back

    Ridiculous, the Republican Party would never do that.

    What's that you say? North Carolina you say? Multiple times you say? Probably a media hoax.

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »

    Is there some hack argument for there being a difference between a huge number of absentee ballots and all mail-in elections when it comes to fraud outside of old people voting Republican more so it is OK for them to do that?

    An absentee ballot system requires active participation on the part of the voter to request it. An all mail system will send a ballot to everyone on the voter rolls regardless of if they requested it. Even if they're poor or a minority.

  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Krieghund wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    I wanna scream at republicans, hey conservatives can still get into power even if everyone votes! Look at Australia! Mandatory voting and we have a conservative government! I mean yeah you’ll have to shave some of the edges off, maybe not be quite as obviously self serving and corrupt wait where are you going you can still be pretty awful!

    Except the Republican party isn't a conservative party anymore. It's been radicalizing itself for the past 30 years, and at the moment, the mainstream Democrats are closer to what conservatism used to be. Although now that the Democratic party has decided to follow suit, I don't think the conservatives are going to have a party to look to in about 15 years.

    So has every conservative party.. The Dems are not equivalent to overseas conservative parties.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited April 2020
    Krieghund wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    I wanna scream at republicans, hey conservatives can still get into power even if everyone votes! Look at Australia! Mandatory voting and we have a conservative government! I mean yeah you’ll have to shave some of the edges off, maybe not be quite as obviously self serving and corrupt wait where are you going you can still be pretty awful!

    Except the Republican party isn't a conservative party anymore. It's been radicalizing itself for the past 30 years, and at the moment, the mainstream Democrats are closer to what conservatism used to be. Although now that the Democratic party has decided to follow suit, I don't think the conservatives are going to have a party to look to in about 15 years.

    The mainstream Democrats are nowhere near where conservatives were even like 30 years ago. Or 50. And are moving left. And the Republican party is 100% a conservative party, just calibrated for the specifics of american politics, especially it's racial dimensions. Which is really the core essence of why they are so obsessed with voter suppression. While the Democratic party has become way more diverse over the past 50 or so years, the Republican party has maintained it's status as the party of white christians and is actually radicalizing along those lines because of the underlying structures (often racial) of american politics. With their base shrinking relative to the overall electorate and their attempts to grow that base demographically ultimately stymied by their own ideology, they have no other choice but to enforce minority rule via electoral shenanigans.

    shryke on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited April 2020
    National Review, which is ostensibly an intellectual conservative outfit, has decided to publish an article by Andy McCarthy that just goes with outright lying about what happened in Wisconsin.
    https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/the-supreme-courts-misunderstood-ruling-on-wisconsins-coronavirus-primary/
    Former Buzzfeed and CNN reporter:
    The first part of @AndrewCMcCarthy story has an error. The Democratic governor wanted the legislature to delay it and the tried it himself with an executive order. He did not make “the decision to go forward with the primary,” as it says here.

    Couscous on
  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    What legal recourse is there for Wisconsinites who feel their election is compromised enough that the results are illegitimate?

    Convince your fellow citizens you are correct and either Recall the offenders, or vote them out next election.

    I could convince a decent majority of Wisconsinites to do that and the GOP could still win very solid a majority of the legislator

    Can you elaborate on this? I'm guessing it's to do with gerrymandering and voter disenfranchisement.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Wisconsin_State_Assembly_election
    UksMFgr.png?1
    Especially look at both the percentage changes and seat changes.

    That is much worse than I thought.

    After yesterday's bullshit, it looks like Wisconsinites genuinely no longer have a democracy and there is nothing they can do about it.

    Am I inaccurate in my understanding?

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited April 2020
    Nope, that’s right

    Captain Inertia on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited April 2020
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    What legal recourse is there for Wisconsinites who feel their election is compromised enough that the results are illegitimate?

    Convince your fellow citizens you are correct and either Recall the offenders, or vote them out next election.

    I could convince a decent majority of Wisconsinites to do that and the GOP could still win very solid a majority of the legislator

    Can you elaborate on this? I'm guessing it's to do with gerrymandering and voter disenfranchisement.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Wisconsin_State_Assembly_election
    UksMFgr.png?1
    Especially look at both the percentage changes and seat changes.

    That is much worse than I thought.

    After yesterday's bullshit, it looks like Wisconsinites genuinely no longer have a democracy and there is nothing they can do about it.

    Am I inaccurate in my understanding?

    The Democratic margin in 2018 was the best they had had in 20 years, and they still lost. They would need to do a good deal better than that to get a majority.

    The rigging is likely to only get worse thanks to the elections yesterday.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/07/us/politics/wisconsin-pandemic-primary-republicans.html
    Former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. and Senator Bernie Sanders are on the ballot in Wisconsin, but the main event is the State Supreme Court race between the conservative incumbent justice, Daniel Kelly, and a liberal challenger, Jill Karofsky.

    The winner will be in position to cast a deciding vote on a case before the court that seeks to purge more than 200,000 people from Wisconsin’s voter rolls — in a state where 2.6 million people voted in the last governor’s race. When the matter was first before the court in January, Mr. Kelly recused himself, citing his upcoming election. He indicated he would “rethink” his position following the April election, which comes with a 10-year term.
    So if the voter suppression succeeds, Kelly gets re-elected and can freely help the purge that will make it harder for Democrats to get elected.

    The main thing would be through judges. SCOTUS ruled that partisan gerrymandering claims could not be considered by federal courts so that is unlikely to be an avenue for quite some time.

    The state Supreme Court is obviously doing what it can to help guarantee conservative judges get elected, but the elections are state wide so can't be gerrymandered like the legislative elections. But the next time a state Supreme Court judge's term ends is in 2023 and there is no more than one state Supreme Court election a year, so the conservative bias of the court is pretty much guaranteed until then unless Kelly loses.

    Couscous on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    And I almost forgot that the legislature will probably continue to gut the powers of any remaining statewide elected officials and help ensure that any pesky Democratic governor won't be able to stop them. Got to ensure any attempts by the people as a whole to limit the influence of gerrymandered state legislator by electing a Democratic state wide official isn't very meaningful.

    Milwaukee reporter:
    BREAKING: Wisconsin Republicans are drafting a proposal aimed at providing coronavirus relief that also curbs @GovEvers' power and allows the Finance Committee to make spending cuts without his input

    Evers tells the Journal Sentinel he would likely veto the bill if it stays

    https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/08/wisconsin-gop-wants-power-cut-spending-response-coronavirus/2970764001/
    MADISON - Seeking to further curb Democratic Gov. Tony Evers’ power, Republican lawmakers are proposing to give a handful of lawmakers the ability to cut school aid and slash state spending if a deficit materializes.

    Evers said that idea, which is one of dozens of potential provisions state lawmakers are negotiating for legislation to respond to the coronavirus outbreak, would likely push him to veto the bill altogether.

    "'Seriously consider it' would probably be putting it mildly," Evers said Wednesday in an interview with the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. "We can’t have that as part of it. That’s too much authority in the hands of a couple people.”

    But a veto would also prevent the state from providing more help to the unemployed and receiving more federal aid to cover health-care costs. Those are two of Evers’ top goals as the coronavirus pandemic spreads across Wisconsin and the economy worsens.
    The new measures are aimed at responding to the coronavirus outbreak and the economic problems that come with it. The legislation would suspend a one-week waiting period to receive unemployment benefits, and allow the state to claim an extra $150 million every three months in federal aid for the state’s Medicaid programs such as BadgerCare Plus.

    But the legislation also includes a provision that would allow the Legislature’s GOP- controlled Joint Finance Committee to reduce state spending — including aid to schools — on its own if the Legislative Fiscal Bureau shows an estimated deficit in the state's general fund in the 2020-21 fiscal year. Normally the Legislature and governor have to agree on any cuts.

    If the governor approved the legislation, he would have the ability to veto any spending cuts made by the committee. But the committee could easily override his vetoes because Republicans have a 12-4 majority on the committee — more than the two-thirds margin needed to override vetoes.


    Evers said he would likely block their legislation if it includes the provision allowing the committee to cut spending. But that would leave in limbo the provisions he and Republicans support.
    Surrender or else the hostages get shot. Don't you care about the hostages?

  • chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    Just looking at the numbers from the 2018 Wisconsin election and it really looks like the state should be almost a true tossup with a slight lean to the Democrats, but instead has a 5-3 US House of Representatives advantage for the Republicans and that staggering 63 to 36 advantage in the State Assembly. The Republican redistricting of the state was incredibly effective.

    steam_sig.png
  • zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    chrisnl wrote: »
    Just looking at the numbers from the 2018 Wisconsin election and it really looks like the state should be almost a true tossup with a slight lean to the Democrats, but instead has a 5-3 US House of Representatives advantage for the Republicans and that staggering 63 to 36 advantage in the State Assembly. The Republican redistricting of the state was incredibly effective.
    Wisconsin is a state where we need a blow out. We just retook Virginia, and Wisconsin is a good state to take next but we might be too late there.

  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    zepherin wrote: »
    chrisnl wrote: »
    Just looking at the numbers from the 2018 Wisconsin election and it really looks like the state should be almost a true tossup with a slight lean to the Democrats, but instead has a 5-3 US House of Representatives advantage for the Republicans and that staggering 63 to 36 advantage in the State Assembly. The Republican redistricting of the state was incredibly effective.
    Wisconsin is a state where we need a blow out. We just retook Virginia, and Wisconsin is a good state to take next but we might be too late there.

    Republicans have given us a huge opening for this November, but I do believe that this November is our absolute last chance at restoring Wisconsin's government to a democracy. If the GOP still retain a majority after the November election after doing all of this bullshit, then Wisconsin is lost to the GOP for good.

  • EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    Honestly I'm not sure that we haven't already lost WI and that this isn't just the mopping-up operation. They did a damn good job.

    "and the morning stars I have seen
    and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Wisconsin needs a citizen initiative to make independent redistricting a thing. Or for the Democrats to control the White House to unfuck both the judiciary and DoJ and get this bullshit resolved through the courts. Long term project.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Wisconsin needs a citizen initiative to make independent redistricting a thing. Or for the Democrats to control the White House to unfuck both the judiciary and DoJ and get this bullshit resolved through the courts. Long term project.

    Retake both houses of Congress in November and then pass new voting reforms like the House did last year. With more vote-by-mail, which might get a boost from the current crisis.

    Probably gonna need to start packing the court or something to really make it stick though.

  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    Someone make a new one of these, I guess.

    Geth, close the thread.

  • GethGeth Legion Perseus VeilRegistered User, Moderator, Penny Arcade Staff, Vanilla Staff vanilla
    Affirmative Bogart. Closing thread...

This discussion has been closed.