Even in 40k, where, lore wise, you've got tanks that are centuries old, titans that have literally millennia of service walking through the most extreme war zones that can be imagined, and battle armor that's been handed down through the Space Marine chapters since the Emperor walked the fields of battle, and they all look the same. The landraiders that are rolling off production lines "today" look the same as the ones that have been in service for centuries.
Edit: To clarify, I realize there are in universe reasons for human tech never changing. But it still bugs me.
A 40K Rogue Trader era Land Raider looks substantially different from the ones on the shelves now. In many cases, but not all, they've retconned old models as different patterns or historical artifacts -- it looks like the original one, with completely uncovered treads, is now the Land Raider Proteus, while the current ones are the Land Raider Phobos. I think Space Marine powered armor has more variants than anything else in the game, although that's more for background reasons than because of new models in real life. But they've gone out of their way to differentiate the ones that have been handed down for millennia.
+2
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
Well, decided on a fairly basic paint scheme for my Capellan OpFor. Capellan-ish green and black with a splash of color to identify the lance/company. Straightforward and easy to paint for me. I like it.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
Buddy: “How do you reconcile the fact that models of the same Mech can look so wildly different. It’d bug me.”
Me: “Easy, a 2000 Chevy Silverado looks very different from a 2020 Silverado.”
Edit- to expand.
My head canon for why models of the same Mech look different (whether official or 3rd party) is because visual tastes change over the decades or that different manufacturers take their own spin on things to make it “theirs”.
I add in the fact that there's also different factories, on different planets, in different States, making different models, and weapons. So you get some subtle variations there as well, that when combined together in a 2-story tall robot, results in some still small but noticeable if ultimately irrelevant differences.
Speaking of subtle differences...
I gotta be honest I really wish we had a 'mech more like the Japanese Hunchback. Like, that should have been the Hollander's design. Offset cockpit due to GIANT GUN
I'm not a huge fan of the new hunchback model. It's just not chunky enough
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NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
Ummm, what? Have you compared this against the existing model? The current CGL/IWM sculpt is practically a runway fashion model compared to this new art.
I will also say, something about it isn't grabbing me. I reserve the right to withhold judgment until the 3D render gets released.
Ummm, what? Have you compared this against the existing model? The current CGL/IWM sculpt is practically a runway fashion model compared to this new art.
I will also say, something about it isn't grabbing me. I reserve the right to withhold judgment until the 3D render gets released.
Man... You're right. Went though my minis and even the old official cardboard standees. He's a slender little princess. Guess I just got used to the MWO model that felt like it had some meat on its bones.
I think it's the feet and circular lower leg. They're so chunky that it looks like it's standing on pegs.
It's always been that way though. At least in this new art, they gave it some chunk in the thighs.
@HydroSqueegee I'm now naming my next OldSculpt Hunchback "Slender Little Princess". Or I would, if I had any left to paint! Huh, go figure, I used all three I had on Oosik paint jobs. :P
I definitely like the IIC better, just looks boxier in all the right ways.
Oh yea. The IIC got the chunk the Hunchback deserves. I like a Philly with a little meat in the seat.
+2
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NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
Eh, agree to disagree. I think the IIc looks chubby compared to the IS Hunchie. The arms, legs, and CT are all bigger for no good reason.
Which doesn't make a lot of sense, as the IS version mounts a bunch more armor than the IIc. The IIc has Clan Endo but not Ferro Fibrous, so you can't explain it away with that.
Eh, agree to disagree. I think the IIc looks chubby compared to the IS Hunchie. The arms, legs, and CT are all bigger for no good reason.
Which doesn't make a lot of sense, as the IS version mounts a bunch more armor than the IIc. The IIc has Clan Endo but not Ferro Fibrous, so you can't explain it away with that.
It's 40% ammo belts
+6
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
Eh, agree to disagree. I think the IIc looks chubby compared to the IS Hunchie. The arms, legs, and CT are all bigger for no good reason.
Which doesn't make a lot of sense, as the IS version mounts a bunch more armor than the IIc. The IIc has Clan Endo but not Ferro Fibrous, so you can't explain it away with that.
It's 40% HONOR
FTFY
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
Eh, agree to disagree. I think the IIc looks chubby compared to the IS Hunchie. The arms, legs, and CT are all bigger for no good reason.
Which doesn't make a lot of sense, as the IS version mounts a bunch more armor than the IIc. The IIc has Clan Endo but not Ferro Fibrous, so you can't explain it away with that.
I mean I agree that it makes a bit less sense contextually. I just mean in general, I wish the IS Hunchie was boxier, it makes more sense. Although the IIC being more round makes sense since it's not FF. I remember reading somewhere that FF is super hard to mold into really round panels.
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
edited April 2020
So my preparations for the "Yay The Lockdown is Lifted Let's Play Some Celebratory Battletech Campaign Extravaganza" is making good speed.
Currently I'm spit-balling ideas for the actual campaign itself. It'll be a handful of missions played over several sessions.
The general gist of it is this (currently):
Set during the Capellan-St. Ives war. The Mercs (players) have been hired by St. Ives to help retake a world that had been captured by Capellan forces. The Capellan invasion force that originally captured the world has already moved on and have left behind mostly third and some secondary line formations as a garrison force. ie: Mostly armor with some light and medium Mechs and a few Heavies. I will have the players occasionally go up against a rival Merc unit that features some stiffer competition in the Mech department.
I've some special rules that I'm kicking around.
The players will have opportunities (whether they know it or not) to capture military assets besides the regular Mech salvage. Armor and VTOLs basically. They'll be able to take these with them for each subsequent mission (if they so choose). However, if they get destroyed during a mission they are gone for good. While they can potentially take as much Armor and VTOLs as they've captured on each mission (usually, but not always) they will still be relegated to one Lance of Mechs no matter how many they have. I'm trying to balance each mission around the idea of them having a single Lance, so any Armor or VTOLs they bring will make things that much easier and I am totally fine with that. Plus if they have a real bad time they won't feel screwed in later missions.
Their Mechs will be fully repaired, rearmed, or refitted (with anything they've salvaged) between each mission at no cost in C-Bills or time. Any Mechs they salvage will have to wait for one mission before being operational, but will then work under the same rules as their starting Mechs (Armor and VTOLs will be good to go right away though). The exception will be any Mechs they salvage in the second to last mission. Those will be ready for the final operation.
I'm taking a little bit of inspiration from Fire Emblem, of all things, in regards to the battle map. I've a 6' 4' battle mat and while I won't be using the whole thing all the time, there will be times that the entire map is used and will contain various Points of Interest besides their Main Objective. The Mercs can ignore these and complete the mission or try to interact with them for potential boons and sometimes cons. One example I've got will be in the first mission (capture a Capellan FOB, which will be the Mercs home away from home going forward). There will be a village with some Capellan forces in it. If the players decide to go out of their way to remove those Capellans from the village then the players will be gifted a Mech. Stuff like that will occasionally be present.
The Mercs wont have access to a store to buy new shit so salvage will be King during the campaign. Making due with what they capture is the running theme. This is also why I freely repair/rearm/refit their Mechs between each mission, as a sort of consolation.
The current list of potential missions are:
1) Capture Capellan FOB. This will be the Mercs' base of operations fluff wise.
2) Defend FOB from Capellan counter attack.
3) Ambush Capellan convoy carrying supplies to a pivotal battle front.
4) Secure a downed Capellan dropship, destroy it otherwise. (Dropship had mechanical trouble and had to land the hard way. While the fleshbags inside didn't survive, the Mechs sure did)
5) Secure bridges ahead of a major offensive.
6) Knock out a Capellan AA site so final operation can commence.
7) Battle for the Capital City! Capture Starport!
8) Beers!
The campaign is certainly in the early stages of design and I'm sure things will change and evolve. A theme, if you will, for the missions is that the Mercs are not taking part in what may be considered the big, pivitol battles. What they're doing is still important to the war effort overall, but maybe not the sort of things that get written about in songs.
edit- The campaign isn't being designed to test their tactical and strategic thinking or Mech min-maxing. It's just supposed to be a fun fluffy time.
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
So this is my attempt to figure out if the free assets on thingiverse are more cost effective to print out than the sweet hextech stuff. On the plus side I was able to scale it to proper battletech dimensions in relation to mech height and terrain level height. 1 level is 6m which comes out to 20ft roughly which is 20mm in 6mm scale... I think. Who knows. What I do know is 20mm per level lines up with mech height for the most part. So a 2 level structure completely blocks all but the tallest mechs, which still counts as full cover for them too cause all you see is the head. I've scaled all the biggest tanks to be around 3 scale meters tall, which according to the charts I've found, is what they should be. So maybe my dream of a mostly properly scaled BT is just around the corner.
NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
The math tracks. An average IRL building floor is around 10 feet (8 feet plus 2 for floor structure and utility space, barring some first-floor highrise shenanigans), thus 10 mm at 'Mech scale. One BT level is typically considered two stories (so 20 mm), two levels is four stories (40 mm). Plus, you can always allow for a bit of wiggle due to variable building construction codes across the Inner Sphere.
I've been down this rabbit hole what feels like hundreds of times. You're good. Print on.
+3
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
I always found it strange how much detailed info there is on Mechs but never their height.
“How tall is a Dragon?”
“Taller than a Medium, shorter than an Assault.”
“Uh, okay. How tall is a Cicada then?”
“Taller than a light.”
“Hrm, in that case how tall is a Urbanmech?”
“... some things mortal men are not meant to know.”
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
I found this in some post on the MWO forums of all places whilst i was looking for info. Never seen it before in all my BT years, but its super helpful.
+6
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NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
So here she is... its ok. needs a lot of supports trimmed. 133g of filament and 14 hours to print. So about $2.50. The price is right. Now i need to weigh if the sweet hextech files are worth the added cost. Because there are a ton of free buildings out there. But none nearly as nice.
That is a very leggy Commando.
And Enforcer.
And even the Banshee a bit.
Yeah, looking at that chart, the Commando is 9ish meters tall, and 6 of those are legs.
11.5/7 for the Enforcer
13.3/8 for the Grasshopper
14.3/9 for the Banshee
Grasshopper has a pretty similar leg to not leg ratio. Maybe it's because the legs are thicker it looks less leggy? Or because the legs on the Hopper actually sit under the torso rather than out to the side.
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
edited April 2020
Speaking of buildings, a couple of mine finished today too.
Capellans take cover inside a civilian village, as is their cowardly ways.
The first two come from the hextech Comm Center bundle, IIRC.
The little houses actually come from here on Thingiverse. I repurposed them to be used as single family dwellings. I think they'll do fine. Originally these were 28mm so I did have to scale them done just a touch.
edit- Perhaps worth posting again. Someone went and ripped the buildings from the MWO River City Map.
The math tracks. An average IRL building floor is around 10 feet (8 feet plus 2 for floor structure and utility space, barring some first-floor highrise shenanigans), thus 10 mm at 'Mech scale. One BT level is typically considered two stories (so 20 mm), two levels is four stories (40 mm). Plus, you can always allow for a bit of wiggle due to variable building construction codes across the Inner Sphere.
I've been down this rabbit hole what feels like hundreds of times. You're good. Print on.
If you want to go fully stark mad, start trying to adjust models to get an even volume to weight ratio
Then adjust for engine weight which probably has a different volume to weight ratio, so you have to account for that in your mechs volume to weight ratio based on its average engine size
Speaking of buildings, a couple of mine finished today too.
Capellans take cover inside a civilian village, as is their cowardly ways.
The first two come from the hextech Comm Center bundle, IIRC.
The little houses actually come from here on Thingiverse. I repurposed them to be used as single family dwellings. I think they'll do fine. Originally these were 28mm so I did have to scale them done just a touch.
edit- Perhaps worth posting again. Someone went and ripped the buildings from the MWO River City Map.
Speaking of buildings, a couple of mine finished today too.
Capellans take cover inside a civilian village, as is their cowardly ways.
The first two come from the hextech Comm Center bundle, IIRC.
The little houses actually come from here on Thingiverse. I repurposed them to be used as single family dwellings. I think they'll do fine. Originally these were 28mm so I did have to scale them done just a touch.
edit- Perhaps worth posting again. Someone went and ripped the buildings from the MWO River City Map.
Give us some more shots on the grasslands set. I'm curious to see how they stack for higher hills (level 3-6+)
That is a very good question. Let's find out!
These are all the pieces I've printed off so far. There are 12 different pieces in the bundle. I favored speed over detail when printing these so the bottoms may not be the most smooth. A few were a bit bigger than my build area too so I just cut em in half.
All the pieces together.
Stacked six high at the peak.
And the other side.
Top view. I had actually moved the whole thing as one to test how well it moved as a unit. Seemed fairly stable. Though I forgot to "squish" em back together for this shot.
For shits and giggles I rearranged them to have some significant overhang. To my surprise this actually worked perfectly fine.
Also, the person (persons?) that designed these hex hills actually also designed these simpler, but free versions. They do look quite nice I must say.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
+7
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
The Secret Unit of Credible Knowledge (S.U.C.K. for short) agents led an investigation into a rumor of a long forgotten Draconis Era military outpost in the bottle neck mountains. During the mission they have come across a forgotten bone yard of decommissioned vehicles deep in an underground warehouse. Techs are working around the clock to bring them online and press them into service for the Talisker Planetary Garrison.
Contents of the bucket, sans 4 Scorpions that are drying in the paint shop after being trimmed. Still have a bunch to go. Savanna Masters, Manticores and Sniper artillery at the very least.
... I went a tad heavy on the Scorpions. Good 2 foot work. Have a few malformed turrets. They'll make fine additions to the scenery as blasted up tanks.
Posts
A 40K Rogue Trader era Land Raider looks substantially different from the ones on the shelves now. In many cases, but not all, they've retconned old models as different patterns or historical artifacts -- it looks like the original one, with completely uncovered treads, is now the Land Raider Proteus, while the current ones are the Land Raider Phobos. I think Space Marine powered armor has more variants than anything else in the game, although that's more for background reasons than because of new models in real life. But they've gone out of their way to differentiate the ones that have been handed down for millennia.
I add in the fact that there's also different factories, on different planets, in different States, making different models, and weapons. So you get some subtle variations there as well, that when combined together in a 2-story tall robot, results in some still small but noticeable if ultimately irrelevant differences.
Speaking of subtle differences...
I gotta be honest I really wish we had a 'mech more like the Japanese Hunchback. Like, that should have been the Hollander's design. Offset cockpit due to GIANT GUN
I will also say, something about it isn't grabbing me. I reserve the right to withhold judgment until the 3D render gets released.
Man... You're right. Went though my minis and even the old official cardboard standees. He's a slender little princess. Guess I just got used to the MWO model that felt like it had some meat on its bones.
Like, ideally Hunchbacks would never be rendered in more than, like, 8-bit graphics. They should look like the platonic ideal of "low polygon count"
It's always been that way though. At least in this new art, they gave it some chunk in the thighs.
@HydroSqueegee I'm now naming my next OldSculpt Hunchback "Slender Little Princess". Or I would, if I had any left to paint! Huh, go figure, I used all three I had on Oosik paint jobs. :P
Unnnnnnff
I definitely like the IIC better, just looks boxier in all the right ways.
That's about 32ish Urbanmechs worth of Clan Mechs right there.
Indeed! How long must the noble and glorious people of the Draconis Combine suffer this indignity!?
(If I was near my computer when I saw it, there’d be a Vince McMahon meme here).
Should be in one of the next 2 design updates they post, if they're doing them in order
Really puts in perspective how skinny-legged the old Unseen MAD IIc is.
Oh yea. The IIC got the chunk the Hunchback deserves. I like a Philly with a little meat in the seat.
Which doesn't make a lot of sense, as the IS version mounts a bunch more armor than the IIc. The IIc has Clan Endo but not Ferro Fibrous, so you can't explain it away with that.
It's 40% ammo belts
FTFY
I mean I agree that it makes a bit less sense contextually. I just mean in general, I wish the IS Hunchie was boxier, it makes more sense. Although the IIC being more round makes sense since it's not FF. I remember reading somewhere that FF is super hard to mold into really round panels.
Currently I'm spit-balling ideas for the actual campaign itself. It'll be a handful of missions played over several sessions.
The general gist of it is this (currently):
Set during the Capellan-St. Ives war. The Mercs (players) have been hired by St. Ives to help retake a world that had been captured by Capellan forces. The Capellan invasion force that originally captured the world has already moved on and have left behind mostly third and some secondary line formations as a garrison force. ie: Mostly armor with some light and medium Mechs and a few Heavies. I will have the players occasionally go up against a rival Merc unit that features some stiffer competition in the Mech department.
I've some special rules that I'm kicking around.
The players will have opportunities (whether they know it or not) to capture military assets besides the regular Mech salvage. Armor and VTOLs basically. They'll be able to take these with them for each subsequent mission (if they so choose). However, if they get destroyed during a mission they are gone for good. While they can potentially take as much Armor and VTOLs as they've captured on each mission (usually, but not always) they will still be relegated to one Lance of Mechs no matter how many they have. I'm trying to balance each mission around the idea of them having a single Lance, so any Armor or VTOLs they bring will make things that much easier and I am totally fine with that. Plus if they have a real bad time they won't feel screwed in later missions.
Their Mechs will be fully repaired, rearmed, or refitted (with anything they've salvaged) between each mission at no cost in C-Bills or time. Any Mechs they salvage will have to wait for one mission before being operational, but will then work under the same rules as their starting Mechs (Armor and VTOLs will be good to go right away though). The exception will be any Mechs they salvage in the second to last mission. Those will be ready for the final operation.
I'm taking a little bit of inspiration from Fire Emblem, of all things, in regards to the battle map. I've a 6' 4' battle mat and while I won't be using the whole thing all the time, there will be times that the entire map is used and will contain various Points of Interest besides their Main Objective. The Mercs can ignore these and complete the mission or try to interact with them for potential boons and sometimes cons. One example I've got will be in the first mission (capture a Capellan FOB, which will be the Mercs home away from home going forward). There will be a village with some Capellan forces in it. If the players decide to go out of their way to remove those Capellans from the village then the players will be gifted a Mech. Stuff like that will occasionally be present.
The Mercs wont have access to a store to buy new shit so salvage will be King during the campaign. Making due with what they capture is the running theme. This is also why I freely repair/rearm/refit their Mechs between each mission, as a sort of consolation.
The current list of potential missions are:
1) Capture Capellan FOB. This will be the Mercs' base of operations fluff wise.
2) Defend FOB from Capellan counter attack.
3) Ambush Capellan convoy carrying supplies to a pivotal battle front.
4) Secure a downed Capellan dropship, destroy it otherwise. (Dropship had mechanical trouble and had to land the hard way. While the fleshbags inside didn't survive, the Mechs sure did)
5) Secure bridges ahead of a major offensive.
6) Knock out a Capellan AA site so final operation can commence.
7) Battle for the Capital City! Capture Starport!
8) Beers!
The campaign is certainly in the early stages of design and I'm sure things will change and evolve. A theme, if you will, for the missions is that the Mercs are not taking part in what may be considered the big, pivitol battles. What they're doing is still important to the war effort overall, but maybe not the sort of things that get written about in songs.
edit- The campaign isn't being designed to test their tactical and strategic thinking or Mech min-maxing. It's just supposed to be a fun fluffy time.
I dunno. Hopefully it looks right when it's done.
https://imgur.com/a/3434GQ0
This thing still has forever to go...
I've been down this rabbit hole what feels like hundreds of times. You're good. Print on.
“How tall is a Dragon?”
“Taller than a Medium, shorter than an Assault.”
“Uh, okay. How tall is a Cicada then?”
“Taller than a light.”
“Hrm, in that case how tall is a Urbanmech?”
“... some things mortal men are not meant to know.”
And Enforcer.
And even the Banshee a bit.
Yeah, looking at that chart, the Commando is 9ish meters tall, and 6 of those are legs.
11.5/7 for the Enforcer
13.3/8 for the Grasshopper
14.3/9 for the Banshee
Grasshopper has a pretty similar leg to not leg ratio. Maybe it's because the legs are thicker it looks less leggy? Or because the legs on the Hopper actually sit under the torso rather than out to the side.
Capellans take cover inside a civilian village, as is their cowardly ways.
The first two come from the hextech Comm Center bundle, IIRC.
The little houses actually come from here on Thingiverse. I repurposed them to be used as single family dwellings. I think they'll do fine. Originally these were 28mm so I did have to scale them done just a touch.
edit- Perhaps worth posting again. Someone went and ripped the buildings from the MWO River City Map.
Commercial Zone
Housing Zone
Industrial Zone
Spaceport
Regular Port
Government Zone
Rasalhague Style Buildings
If you want to go fully stark mad, start trying to adjust models to get an even volume to weight ratio
Then adjust for engine weight which probably has a different volume to weight ratio, so you have to account for that in your mechs volume to weight ratio based on its average engine size
MWO: Adamski
Oh man! Nice.
Give us some more shots on the grasslands set. I'm curious to see how they stack for higher hills (level 3-6+)
That is a very good question. Let's find out!
These are all the pieces I've printed off so far. There are 12 different pieces in the bundle. I favored speed over detail when printing these so the bottoms may not be the most smooth. A few were a bit bigger than my build area too so I just cut em in half.
All the pieces together.
Stacked six high at the peak.
And the other side.
Top view. I had actually moved the whole thing as one to test how well it moved as a unit. Seemed fairly stable. Though I forgot to "squish" em back together for this shot.
For shits and giggles I rearranged them to have some significant overhang. To my surprise this actually worked perfectly fine.
Also, the person (persons?) that designed these hex hills actually also designed these simpler, but free versions. They do look quite nice I must say.
Me likey.
I saw all these this morning, and yes please. I'm loving that Pixie more and more with each picture.
Someone on the forums mentioned some droop in a couple of the gun barrels, but honestly that's expected and an easy fix.
https://imgur.com/a/audFrqQ
Twitch | Blizzard: Ianator#1479 | 3DS: Ianator - 1779 2336 5317 | FFXIV: Iana Ateliere (NA Sarg)
Backlog Challenge List
... I went a tad heavy on the Scorpions. Good 2 foot work. Have a few malformed turrets. They'll make fine additions to the scenery as blasted up tanks.
https://imgur.com/a/tVFH0vD
In the meantime I had ordered another two lances off eBay, which arrived yesterday. I’ll be doing them all up soon.
One Lance shall be the Mercs my players will repeatedly encounter. The other Lance I’m not too sure on yet.
In case you’re curious:
Nightstar
Warhammer
JagerMech
Bushwacker
Are the enemy Mercs.
Atlas
Catapult K2(PPCs right?)
Black Knight
Blackjack
Are the up for grabs lance.