We've been rewatching the movies in order, one a week. Because quarantine. Quick thoughts, especially as this is the first time Ive watched them since Endgame and viewing them so close together.
Iron Man - still great, holds up.
Iron Man 2 - Better than I remember. The villains are well portrayed, if not deeply written. SHIELD stuff is fun. The electro whips are pretty awesome. Final battle is good mayhem.
Thor - Worse than I remember. Like, a lot worse. The only character thats interesting is Loki. Thor, his BFFs, Jane and her BFFs (okay, Kat is okayish) and Hawkeye are various shades of bland. The third act is jumbled trash deeply in need of help. Devastator doesnt look good at all. Whats more...
Captain America: The First Avenger - ...makes Thor an even worse movie when viewed back to back. Captain, Peggy, Bucky and Tommy Lee Jones all pop in a way that no one in Thor really does. By the time Steve gets to bootcamp Im already way more invested in them than whatever nonsense Thor is up to. Rest of the movie is a solid view. Skulls car is the coolest. But evil.
The Avengers - Still good but not AS GOOD as seeing it in the theaters. Maybe its because I know better Avengers stuff is in the pipeline or because Ive seen this movie more than most of them so some of the jokes dont hit hard anymore. Still cant believe they got away with that mewling line. Still get chills during the Avengers coming together scene.
Iron Man 3 - I always rather liked this one anyway. Going back it really lays the foundation for who Tony becomes by Endgame, so thats cool. Villain is probably the worst in Iron Man movies. What kills the burning dudes seems super arbitrary. The final fight should be a complete mess, but it ends up working really well for me.
Thor 2 - Basically more Thor trash. Loki continues to be fantastic, but otherwise I think this was the first time I was actively bored during a rewatch film. Probably the most wasted actor/villain combo? Does Eccleston even get 10 words? My overwhelming emotion at the end was relief that we got through it.
Baby Groot was important to the story and to several character arcs in GOTG2. Yes he was cute but he was absolutely not just fan service and not even remotely on the same plane as BB-8 (or, even worse, Babu Frik).
The film was about parenthood and abuse and narcissism and putting others before yourself. These are all things that make a literal child character, and its interactions with others, key reflections of the movie's themes.
I got enough of those themes from Quill's and Rocket's interactions with Yondu, Quill's interactions with Ego, and Gamora's interactions with Nebula.
My memories of Baby Groot's contributions to the film are him: wandering around doing "cute baby stuff" during the opening fight, getting abused by Yondu's crew, spending a couple minutes repeatedly getting the wrong item Rocket and Yondu were asking for, and completely failing to understand which button to press on a bomb before eventually carrying that bomb where it needed to go and pressing the right button on the bomb. I guess I must've missed him tying into the key themes. I guess patiently, repeatedly explaining something to a baby shows the difference? It was nothing but tedious for me, though.
Personally if I had to cut down to the plot essentials going into IW/Endgame
Iron Man
Iron Man 2
Captain America: First Avenger
Avengers
Thor: Dark World
Captain America: Winter Soldier
Guardians of the Galaxy
Avengers: Age of Ultron
Captain America: Civil War
Dr Strange
Thor: Ragnarok
Avengers: Infinity War
Ant Man and the Wasp
Captain Marvel
Avengers: Endgame
Cap FA, Avengers, Dark World, GotG, Ultron, and Dr Strange for establishing the Stones.
Ant Man and the Wasp for setting up Quantum Realm.
The rest all just introduce the key characters and state of the world going into IW and Endgame.
Spider Man and Black Panther are both introduced enough in Civil War that you could skip their solo films going into it (same with Ant Man honestly). Hulk and Thor are better established in later films. Gotg2 had the Nebula/Gamora stuff but that gets established in the other movies too.
I'd personally skip Captain Marvel. It's not great and you really don't need to know anything about her since literally all she does is act as a deus ex machina.
I think increasingly the average Marvel moviegoer is going to have to be okay with encountering characters for the first time in somebody else's movie and just rolling with it. They probably know about the existence of the movie and that they missed that origin story. But the expectation that the viewer has seen all of it, even the "mandatory" stuff, is increasingly unrealistic.
Have I seen any Iron Man movie? Nope. Does the MCU still make sense? Yep. It's not really a problem, at least not yet. Yeah you'll miss the in jokes, references and such but the plot still tracks.
Have I seen any Iron Man movie? Nope. Does the MCU still make sense? Yep. It's not really a problem, at least not yet. Yeah you'll miss the in jokes, references and such but the plot still tracks.
Well, especially now, lol.
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
I'll never understand the hate for Thor 2.
The bad guy was boring, I'll give you that. Other than that, the movie is full of great stuff.
Darcy was great.
Thor & Loki's relationship was further explored and was also great.
The portal battle was awesome.
Many of the humor bits were great, like the hammer constantly having to turn around to get to Thor since he was going through different portals.
Frigga was also great.
It's definitely not he best of the MCU, but it was still fun to watch.
The bad guy was boring, I'll give you that. Other than that, the movie is full of great stuff.
Darcy was great.
Thor & Loki's relationship was further explored and was also great.
The portal battle was awesome.
Many of the humor bits were great, like the hammer constantly having to turn around to get to Thor since he was going through different portals.
Frigga was also great.
It's definitely not he best of the MCU, but it was still fun to watch.
Also Heimdall takes on spaceships with a sword and wins and it's awesome
The bad guy was boring, I'll give you that. Other than that, the movie is full of great stuff.
Darcy was great.
Thor & Loki's relationship was further explored and was also great.
The portal battle was awesome.
Many of the humor bits were great, like the hammer constantly having to turn around to get to Thor since he was going through different portals.
Frigga was also great.
It's definitely not he best of the MCU, but it was still fun to watch.
Also Heimdall takes on spaceships with a sword and wins and it's awesome
It is awesome, which makes it a little jarring that the rest of Asgard's army gets completely fucking housed. And it sure seems like it's because they haven't made any kind of technological progress since the last war against the dark elves 5,000 years ago. Maybe time has skewed my memory but I'm not sure a single dark elf was harmed by anyone other than Asgard's champion units.
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
The bad guy was boring, I'll give you that. Other than that, the movie is full of great stuff.
Darcy was great.
Thor & Loki's relationship was further explored and was also great.
The portal battle was awesome.
Many of the humor bits were great, like the hammer constantly having to turn around to get to Thor since he was going through different portals.
Frigga was also great.
It's definitely not he best of the MCU, but it was still fun to watch.
That's the thing about the MCU. The worst movies are still more enjoyable than a lot of the drek out there.
I'd personally skip Captain Marvel. It's not great and you really don't need to know anything about her since literally all she does is act as a deus ex machina.
And there it is.
Its so much more than that, Carol Danvers coming into her own as a super, was for real, one of the best movies I watched with my kid, the theme of being true to oneself being healthy despite everyone who is trying to mess with your mind was strong on so many levels. Straight up gonna just have to go agree to disagree that you don't need to know anything about her, that's just so amazingly dismissive of the context of where her determination, not just the power set, that gives Thanos worry comes from that its no wonder you think she is just a deus ex machina.
Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
I didn't see Captain Marvel till after I saw Endgame.
I had no problem following or understanding who Carol Danvers was at all...
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Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
Like, you need to watch Doctor Strange to get an full understanding of who Stephen Strange is but if you just watch Thor: Ragnarok and Avengers: Infinity War, you probably get a good enough grasp on his character to follow the story.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
You should watch Dr Strange because the ending is fucking awesome.
I'd personally skip Captain Marvel. It's not great and you really don't need to know anything about her since literally all she does is act as a deus ex machina.
And there it is.
Its so much more than that, Carol Danvers coming into her own as a super, was for real, one of the best movies I watched with my kid, the theme of being true to oneself being healthy despite everyone who is trying to mess with your mind was strong on so many levels. Straight up gonna just have to go agree to disagree that you don't need to know anything about her, that's just so amazingly dismissive of the context of where her determination, not just the power set, that gives Thanos worry comes from that its no wonder you think she is just a deus ex machina.
Its more than just a throw away line for some of us.
It's fantastic that it moves you on a cultural/identity(there may be a better term? Not trying to be insensitive) level. And I wouldn’t want to diminish that in any way.
Similarly, Black Panther was a touchstone for the black community, about putting black identity to the forefront (rather than sidekicks to Stark, Rogers and Odinson).
But the question was about what's necessary, plot/thematic wise to understand End Game. And I don’t think Marvel makes the cut, not if you want to trim the movie count down below half (and if you're not going to do that, just let the whole run play, still my preference).
As @Zonugal said, they were able to watch EG without having seen CM, and the plot/theme was still followable. If the original poster was intrigued, they could go back and watch it.
But skipping it for the sake of brevity shouldn't be seen as a slight to the community for who it inspires.
MorganV on
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
Realistically speaking, you could probably just go with the Avengers movies, GotG and call it a day. Sure, you'll miss out on some stuff, but there's enough there....maybe Thor 2 as well. I don't feel like the rest are strictly necessary.
Now, unfortunately, IMO the Avengers films are pretty fucking mediocre. And Thor 2, while I enjoy it, is also pretty mediocre. Yeah, there's a bunch of characterization you'll miss out on, but that's true so long as you're cutting any nontrivial number of movies.
But once we start adding the other movies in, it becomes a matter of taste and what is important to you.
Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
All movies are about taste and preference. Strictly speaking, none of the predecessor MCU films are necessary to watch in order to enjoy any of the ensemble movies.
Where you draw the line is entirely up to you, and even if you were to engage in the exercise for the purpose of recommending to others which films are "necessary" viewing, you have to take into consideration that person's tastes and preferences.
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
Thanos wasn't worried because she's determined, he was beating several equally-determined heroes into a pulp
Yes, he was.
It was almost a direct shot to when Captain America also gave him a surprise holding his hand open in Infinity War. Right down to Thanos using his other hand as the counter.
That's one other hero that came close to pulling off what she did, she was pushing him back, Captain America just held him in place.
What are the other heroes that surprised Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet on? Scarlet Witch? Iron Man? Several being on Carol's level of determination is a stretch.
CanadianWolverine on
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Zavianuniversal peace sounds better than forever warRegistered Userregular
I was never a fan of Carol Danvers in the comics, but the movie made me a fan of her. I liked her heroes journey and theme of discovering herself. Certainly not one of the worst Marvel movies IMO. Also, I liked the 90s callbacks having grown up in the 90s myself.
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
I was never a fan of Carol Danvers in the comics, but the movie made me a fan of her. I liked her heroes journey and theme of discovering herself. Certainly not one of the worst Marvel movies IMO. Also, I liked the 90s callbacks having grown up in the 90s myself.
I wish they were less in your face about it. Just let it be in the background. Hell, seeing all those old cars was plenty of throwback.
edit: and I never read the comics; all I knew about her was Rogue's origin in the 90s X-men TV series. Thanks to the movie, I'm a fan of her. She seems like a more interesting Superman.
Orca on
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Zavianuniversal peace sounds better than forever warRegistered Userregular
I was never a fan of Carol Danvers in the comics, but the movie made me a fan of her. I liked her heroes journey and theme of discovering herself. Certainly not one of the worst Marvel movies IMO. Also, I liked the 90s callbacks having grown up in the 90s myself.
I wish they were less in your face about it. Just let it be in the background. Hell, seeing all those old cars was plenty of throwback.
At least they didn’t have a Limp Bizkit song
+7
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SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
I was never a fan of Carol Danvers in the comics, but the movie made me a fan of her. I liked her heroes journey and theme of discovering herself. Certainly not one of the worst Marvel movies IMO. Also, I liked the 90s callbacks having grown up in the 90s myself.
I wish they were less in your face about it. Just let it be in the background. Hell, seeing all those old cars was plenty of throwback.
At least they didn’t have a Limp Bizkit song
That's more turn of the century to be fair, but fingers crossed for the sequel!
I was never a fan of Carol Danvers in the comics, but the movie made me a fan of her. I liked her heroes journey and theme of discovering herself. Certainly not one of the worst Marvel movies IMO. Also, I liked the 90s callbacks having grown up in the 90s myself.
I wish they were less in your face about it. Just let it be in the background. Hell, seeing all those old cars was plenty of throwback.
At least they didn’t have a Limp Bizkit song
I now want to see her power up fight be to "Nookie" instead
I thought that Captain Marvel was okay between Infinity War and Endgame, but Captain Marvel worked the best when watched in chronological (as in, between Captain America and Iron Man) order.
I was never a fan of Carol Danvers in the comics, but the movie made me a fan of her. I liked her heroes journey and theme of discovering herself. Certainly not one of the worst Marvel movies IMO. Also, I liked the 90s callbacks having grown up in the 90s myself.
I wish they were less in your face about it. Just let it be in the background. Hell, seeing all those old cars was plenty of throwback.
edit: and I never read the comics; all I knew about her was Rogue's origin in the 90s X-men TV series. Thanks to the movie, I'm a fan of her. She seems like a more interesting Superman.
Ditto. Admittedly I'm not a fan of most comics centered around action. Not saying that they can't be good they're just not my preference.
Her movie though, where I love action, won me over. I'll probably never be a huge fan of the comics any more than Iron Man's or Thor's, but god damn if I won't show up day one to see Carol Danvers punch things.
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MonwynApathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime.A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered Userregular
Thanos wasn't worried because she's determined, he was beating several equally-determined heroes into a pulp
Yes, he was.
It was almost a direct shot to when Captain America also gave him a surprise holding his hand open in Infinity War. Right down to Thanos using his other hand as the counter.
That's one other hero that came close to pulling off what she did, she was pushing him back, Captain America just held him in place.
What are the other heroes that surprised Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet on? Scarlet Witch? Iron Man? Several being on Carol's level of determination is a stretch.
I'm pretty sure that he was worried because she a): trivially blew up his ship and b): got hit multiple times while he was using the Gauntlet and not only didn't care but didn't actually move. Thanos objectively does not give a fuck about how determined you are: "I am inevitable."
Turns out fighting knock-off Superman is cause for concern, regardless of whether or not she's not particularly invested.
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
Yeah, the only two opponents he actually breaks a sweat for are Scarlet Witch and Captain Marvel. Everyone else--even a literal demigod--he just powers on through.
+4
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Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
Due to this thread I'm watching Iron Man 2 tonight.
You're all welcome.
All of you.
History will vindicate not only me but this movie!!!
Posts
Iron Man - still great, holds up.
Iron Man 2 - Better than I remember. The villains are well portrayed, if not deeply written. SHIELD stuff is fun. The electro whips are pretty awesome. Final battle is good mayhem.
Thor - Worse than I remember. Like, a lot worse. The only character thats interesting is Loki. Thor, his BFFs, Jane and her BFFs (okay, Kat is okayish) and Hawkeye are various shades of bland. The third act is jumbled trash deeply in need of help. Devastator doesnt look good at all. Whats more...
Captain America: The First Avenger - ...makes Thor an even worse movie when viewed back to back. Captain, Peggy, Bucky and Tommy Lee Jones all pop in a way that no one in Thor really does. By the time Steve gets to bootcamp Im already way more invested in them than whatever nonsense Thor is up to. Rest of the movie is a solid view. Skulls car is the coolest. But evil.
The Avengers - Still good but not AS GOOD as seeing it in the theaters. Maybe its because I know better Avengers stuff is in the pipeline or because Ive seen this movie more than most of them so some of the jokes dont hit hard anymore. Still cant believe they got away with that mewling line. Still get chills during the Avengers coming together scene.
Iron Man 3 - I always rather liked this one anyway. Going back it really lays the foundation for who Tony becomes by Endgame, so thats cool. Villain is probably the worst in Iron Man movies. What kills the burning dudes seems super arbitrary. The final fight should be a complete mess, but it ends up working really well for me.
Thor 2 - Basically more Thor trash. Loki continues to be fantastic, but otherwise I think this was the first time I was actively bored during a rewatch film. Probably the most wasted actor/villain combo? Does Eccleston even get 10 words? My overwhelming emotion at the end was relief that we got through it.
I got enough of those themes from Quill's and Rocket's interactions with Yondu, Quill's interactions with Ego, and Gamora's interactions with Nebula.
My memories of Baby Groot's contributions to the film are him: wandering around doing "cute baby stuff" during the opening fight, getting abused by Yondu's crew, spending a couple minutes repeatedly getting the wrong item Rocket and Yondu were asking for, and completely failing to understand which button to press on a bomb before eventually carrying that bomb where it needed to go and pressing the right button on the bomb. I guess I must've missed him tying into the key themes. I guess patiently, repeatedly explaining something to a baby shows the difference? It was nothing but tedious for me, though.
Iron Man
Iron Man 2
Captain America: First Avenger
Avengers
Thor: Dark World
Captain America: Winter Soldier
Guardians of the Galaxy
Avengers: Age of Ultron
Captain America: Civil War
Dr Strange
Thor: Ragnarok
Avengers: Infinity War
Ant Man and the Wasp
Captain Marvel
Avengers: Endgame
Cap FA, Avengers, Dark World, GotG, Ultron, and Dr Strange for establishing the Stones.
Ant Man and the Wasp for setting up Quantum Realm.
The rest all just introduce the key characters and state of the world going into IW and Endgame.
Spider Man and Black Panther are both introduced enough in Civil War that you could skip their solo films going into it (same with Ant Man honestly). Hulk and Thor are better established in later films. Gotg2 had the Nebula/Gamora stuff but that gets established in the other movies too.
Well, especially now, lol.
The bad guy was boring, I'll give you that. Other than that, the movie is full of great stuff.
Darcy was great.
Thor & Loki's relationship was further explored and was also great.
The portal battle was awesome.
Many of the humor bits were great, like the hammer constantly having to turn around to get to Thor since he was going through different portals.
Frigga was also great.
It's definitely not he best of the MCU, but it was still fun to watch.
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Also Heimdall takes on spaceships with a sword and wins and it's awesome
It is awesome, which makes it a little jarring that the rest of Asgard's army gets completely fucking housed. And it sure seems like it's because they haven't made any kind of technological progress since the last war against the dark elves 5,000 years ago. Maybe time has skewed my memory but I'm not sure a single dark elf was harmed by anyone other than Asgard's champion units.
That's the thing about the MCU. The worst movies are still more enjoyable than a lot of the drek out there.
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
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And there it is.
Its so much more than that, Carol Danvers coming into her own as a super, was for real, one of the best movies I watched with my kid, the theme of being true to oneself being healthy despite everyone who is trying to mess with your mind was strong on so many levels. Straight up gonna just have to go agree to disagree that you don't need to know anything about her, that's just so amazingly dismissive of the context of where her determination, not just the power set, that gives Thanos worry comes from that its no wonder you think she is just a deus ex machina.
Its more than just a throw away line for some of us.
I had no problem following or understanding who Carol Danvers was at all...
It's fantastic that it moves you on a cultural/identity(there may be a better term? Not trying to be insensitive) level. And I wouldn’t want to diminish that in any way.
Similarly, Black Panther was a touchstone for the black community, about putting black identity to the forefront (rather than sidekicks to Stark, Rogers and Odinson).
But the question was about what's necessary, plot/thematic wise to understand End Game. And I don’t think Marvel makes the cut, not if you want to trim the movie count down below half (and if you're not going to do that, just let the whole run play, still my preference).
As @Zonugal said, they were able to watch EG without having seen CM, and the plot/theme was still followable. If the original poster was intrigued, they could go back and watch it.
But skipping it for the sake of brevity shouldn't be seen as a slight to the community for who it inspires.
Now, unfortunately, IMO the Avengers films are pretty fucking mediocre. And Thor 2, while I enjoy it, is also pretty mediocre. Yeah, there's a bunch of characterization you'll miss out on, but that's true so long as you're cutting any nontrivial number of movies.
But once we start adding the other movies in, it becomes a matter of taste and what is important to you.
Where you draw the line is entirely up to you, and even if you were to engage in the exercise for the purpose of recommending to others which films are "necessary" viewing, you have to take into consideration that person's tastes and preferences.
I kind of think of it as an Avengers movie so...yeah
Is GotG part of phase 2? Otherwise this was not my experience whatsoever
Yes, GotG is phase 2. It came out between Winter Soldier and Age of Ultron.
Yes, he was.
It was almost a direct shot to when Captain America also gave him a surprise holding his hand open in Infinity War. Right down to Thanos using his other hand as the counter.
That's one other hero that came close to pulling off what she did, she was pushing him back, Captain America just held him in place.
What are the other heroes that surprised Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet on? Scarlet Witch? Iron Man? Several being on Carol's level of determination is a stretch.
I wish they were less in your face about it. Just let it be in the background. Hell, seeing all those old cars was plenty of throwback.
edit: and I never read the comics; all I knew about her was Rogue's origin in the 90s X-men TV series. Thanks to the movie, I'm a fan of her. She seems like a more interesting Superman.
At least they didn’t have a Limp Bizkit song
That's more turn of the century to be fair, but fingers crossed for the sequel!
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I now want to see her power up fight be to "Nookie" instead
it wouldn't be good, but it would be funny
I countered with that's how it happened in our universe, but apparently not the Marvel universe.
because demigods and superheroes are totally realistic
get outta here
angry comic book fanboys have now converged with angry movie fanboys; instead of letters to the editor, they now take to reddit, the world is doomed
Ditto. Admittedly I'm not a fan of most comics centered around action. Not saying that they can't be good they're just not my preference.
Her movie though, where I love action, won me over. I'll probably never be a huge fan of the comics any more than Iron Man's or Thor's, but god damn if I won't show up day one to see Carol Danvers punch things.
I'm pretty sure that he was worried because she a): trivially blew up his ship and b): got hit multiple times while he was using the Gauntlet and not only didn't care but didn't actually move. Thanos objectively does not give a fuck about how determined you are: "I am inevitable."
Turns out fighting knock-off Superman is cause for concern, regardless of whether or not she's not particularly invested.
You're all welcome.
All of you.
History will vindicate not only me but this movie!!!