Personally I am excited for the Maya who had my favorite gimmick in Civ 5 (so good the mods never changed it when they changed like 80% of the Civ abilities, to my knowledge)
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
0
AbsalonLands of Always WinterRegistered Userregular
I kinda wish they told us every thing we get before we have to buy.
I feel like I have enough info to make a decent judgment. I don’t feel like I have to have too much of a breakdown to decide whether 8 civs and 9 leaders is worth it at this point. The biggest mystery is the game modes, but I’m sure they will go over at least the one releasing in may before then.
I kinda wish they told us every thing we get before we have to buy.
You don't have to buy the $40 expansion pass. Each pack will also be sold individually, if you prefer to buy them that way.
0
knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
I finally downloaded Rise&Fall (and let me tell you, it was a giant pain in the ass getting the damn thing to actually load)
Literally just started but I already have Gathering Storm so the gameplay doesn’t look all that different from what ive become used to. New civs are always nice though. Maybe now the achievements will actually trigger when I meet the requirements.
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
The only thing you probably will notice right away are the new civs (I think there were also a couple of rise and fall wonders and a bunch of city states).
The big systems like governors etc were also included in gathering storm, probably because it would have been a pain to maintain 2 versions of the gathering storm codebase.
+1
AbsalonLands of Always WinterRegistered Userregular
Apparently the new game modes are not scenarios like the plague or Red Death, which is keen. I am guessing they are similar to the Apocalypse feature so you can play with them on or off.
Yeah they said they wanted something that would have major gameplay implications to mix things up that maybe everyone wouldn’t want to have on every time. One example was like bigger natural disasters and then having a religious unit that could trigger natural disasters in enemy cities.
Apparently the new game modes are not scenarios like the plague or Red Death, which is keen. I am guessing they are similar to the Apocalypse feature so you can play with them on or off.
Basically, they are new systems that are less tied to real world history than the systems introduced in the expansions.
The Devs wanted to make them optional to avoid overloading the game with complexity. They also didn't want to break the historical realism for players who prefer a more grounded experience.
But for veteran players who want an even crunchier experience that what Gathering Storm already provides, these new game modes will give them more plates to keep spinning. If you play with all six new game modes turned on at the same time, it will be like an entire expansion's worth of new systems being layered on top.
Maya are for going tall. Lady Six Sky is their leader.
Ix Mutal Ajaw: non-capital cities within six tiles of the capital get +10% to all yields, every other city gets -15%. +5 combat for all units within 6 spaces of the capital
Mayab: they don't care about fresh water/coast for housing. Instead every farm gives 1.5 housing and +1 gold.
Hul'che: Archer replacement that's stronger and gets +5 attack against wounded units
Observatory: campus replacement, +2 adjacency bonus for plantations, +1 adjacency bonus for 2 farms
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
+1
Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
So you ideally want an enormous open plain, capital in the centre, six or so cities around it in a ring exactly six hexes away, and all the farms ever.
Only question is whether the bonus applies to all tiles owned by the city as long as the actual city tile is in range…
So you ideally want an enormous open plain, capital in the centre, six or so cities around it in a ring exactly six hexes away, and all the farms ever.
Only question is whether the bonus applies to all tiles owned by the city as long as the actual city tile is in range…
Way it reads is it's based on the city center only.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
0
AbsalonLands of Always WinterRegistered Userregular
Am guessing Gran Colombia will be more interested in going wide and having loyalty-related boni, perhaps bringing city states into the fold more easily or deriving more dividends from them.
Also interesting that non Mayan cities get that production bonus for being close to Mayan Capital. Gotta crush all forward settlers to keep that sweet bonus all to yourself.
So rivers, lakes, mountains, geothermal vents, reefs, and rainforests are much less valuable.
By contrast, plantation resources, especially plantation luxuries, are much more valuable. I assume the Maya will have a small starting bias for plantation resources.
As @Mr_Rose suggested, that's going to encourage settling in wide open plains and grasslands that other civs might ignore. It's similar to the civs who get bonuses to tundra or dessert, but not quite as on-the-nose.
The regional yield buff reminds me of Australia. Most civs don't care about appeal until the Industrial Era, but it becomes relevant to Australia much earlier than that. Likewise, regional buffs are something that most civs don't benefit from until the Industrial Era, but the Maya are an exception. The Steward governor's Vertical Integration ability will have a lot of synergy with the Maya's intended playstyle.
Corn and honey in as resources. Bonus and luxury, respectively, probably
Disasters: forest fires, meteor strikes (!). The meteors leave behind iron.
There's a new religious unit that is um...basically a wizard? Can force disasters.
Wonder when they post the preview for Bolivar and Gran Colombia.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Corn and honey in as resources. Bonus and luxury, respectively, probably
Disasters: forest fires, meteor strikes (!). The meteors leave behind iron.
There's a new religious unit that is um...basically a wizard? Can force disasters.
Wonder when they post the preview for Bolivar and Gran Colombia.
Just to clarify, the new disasters and soothsayer unit are exclusive to Apocalypse Mode. You can turn them off if you don't like them.
The new resources will be available even when Apocalypse Mode is turned off.
0
AbsalonLands of Always WinterRegistered Userregular
edited May 2020
Meteorites are barely a thing in human history and the whole thing about Soothsayers and meteor strikes feels a bit odd to me compared to more sensible additions like forest fires. Apostles and missionaries doing Force Lightning at each other is one thing because it can make sense as a visualization of brimstone condemnation and angry debating.
It is weird to me that plagues aren't a thing in Civ considering the major impact they have had throughout history (the disease/health/ food thing from IV barely counts), but right now is obviously not the best timing to add them.
Another thing that they should have added, but would have been very challenging balance-wise, is more widespread climatic variation unrelated to specific events like floods, storms or eruptions. Entire empires and cultures have been whittled down and dispersed to other regions by sustained droughts and desertification long before greenhouse gases started having an impact.
Meteorites are barely a thing in human history and the whole thing about Soothsayers and meteor strikes feels a bit odd to me compared to more sensible additions like forest fires. Apostles and missionaries doing Force Lightning at each other is one thing because it can make sense as a visualization of brimstone condemnation and angry debating.
It is weird to me that plagues aren't a thing in Civ considering the major impact they have had throughout history (the disease/health/ food thing from IV barely counts), but right now is obviously not the best timing to add them.
Another thing that they should have added, but would have been very challenging balance-wise, is more widespread climatic variation unrelated to specific events like floods, storms or eruptions. Entire empires and cultures have been whittled down and dispersed to other regions by sustained droughts and desertification long before greenhouse gases started having an impact.
I think that is more an issue of game balance vs history/fun, and probably a big reason why they are doing the game mode thing rather than just throwing everything into the main game.
Game changing “Megaevent” (invasions, plagues, etc) type things are kind of hard to balance, often either they are weak to the point of meaninglessness (chaos invasion in wh2, for example), or they are so strong they absolutely dominate the game and a large part of the game becomes planning around them (for example the attila invasion in attila total war, or stellaris’ end game events).
It seems like they are giving the wilder things their own little corner that is optional, so if you want big game changing events you can do that, and if you just want a normal game without worrying about massive realistic plagues, city destroying meteor strikes, or aliens invading during ww2, you can do that to.
Did they either nerf ancient walls or buff horsemen? I just had an AI roll up and one-shot a walled city with a crossbowman inside. I've never seen that before.
Edit: Must have been a weird bug or some other factor I didn't notice. I can't replicate it.
Gran Colombia seems completely broken at first pass.
Unique Leader Ability - Campana Admirable
Whenever Gran Colombia enters a new era, it automatically earns a unique unit, the Comandante General. This unit is granted regardless of which type of Age is triggered.
Unique Unit - Comandante General
This unique unit has a wide range of passive and active effects. The Comandante General can increase combat bonuses, upgrade military units and more. (Video says grant promotions, the passive great general effect, give you extra trade routes, and more)
Unique Ability - Ejercito Patriota
Gran Colombia’s unique ability grants additional movement to all units. Additionally, promoting units does not end that unit’s turn. (When they say all, that includes settlers and workers)
Unique Unit - Llanero
This musical warrior replaces the Cavalry unit and becomes stronger with each adjacent Llanero. If the Llanero is in range of a Commandante General activating their unique ability, the Llanero will regain all lost health.
Unique Improvement - Hacienda
The Hacienda provides Production, Gold and Housing bonuses, and a Food bonus for each adjacent Plantation. Haciendas and Plantations also receive Production bonuses for adjacent Haciendas.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Gran Colombia’s unique ability grants additional movement to all units. Additionally, promoting units does not end that unit’s turn. (When they say all, that includes settlers and workers)
Like most other post-colonial civs, it looks like their main weakness will be that most of their bonuses won't come online until later in the game.
The video makes it look like the era the game starts in doesn't count for Bolivar's leader ability, so they will only have their speed boost to help them in the ancient era. After that they will only get two Comandante Generals to help them out in the classical and medieval eras.
The devs have confirmed that the Hacienda unlocks with the renaissance era civic Mercantilism. Since the Llanero replaces the cavalry, it can be assumed that it unlocks with the industrial era technology Military Science.
Gran Colombia ramps up exponentially the longer the game keeps going, but the challenge will be staying competitive until that point.
We still haven't gotten a Venice from 5 in this game. We're on the third expansion, and I need some absurd shit, goddamnit. Closest so far is desertgoldfaith absurdity of Mali, but I need more!
+2
AbsalonLands of Always WinterRegistered Userregular
So strong units, free GGs that can be used in versatile ways and a powerful UU, all supported by yield-boosting generalist UI and faster civilians. Don't let Gran Colombia build themselves up any way if you are playing against them, in other words.
Like most other post-colonial civs, it looks like their main weakness will be that most of their bonuses won't come online until later in the game.
The video makes it look like the era the game starts in doesn't count for Bolivar's leader ability, so they will only have their speed boost to help them in the ancient era. After that they will only get two Comandante Generals to help them out in the classical and medieval eras.
The devs have confirmed that the Hacienda unlocks with the renaissance era civic Mercantilism. Since the Llanero replaces the cavalry, it can be assumed that it unlocks with the industrial era technology Military Science.
Gran Colombia ramps up exponentially the longer the game keeps going, but the challenge will be staying competitive until that point.
Yeah... And it is a domination civ and early game counts a lot.
I don’t think overall it is quite as good as, say, Persia but it is very close.
We still haven't gotten a Venice from 5 in this game. We're on the third expansion, and I need some absurd shit, goddamnit. Closest so far is desertgoldfaith absurdity of Mali, but I need more!
I'm trying to think of another nation that could fit the One City rules like Venice (that isn't another Italian city state).
We still haven't gotten a Venice from 5 in this game. We're on the third expansion, and I need some absurd shit, goddamnit. Closest so far is desertgoldfaith absurdity of Mali, but I need more!
I'm trying to think of another nation that could fit the One City rules like Venice (that isn't another Italian city state).
Perhaps Lübeck or something to represent the Hanseatic League?
+1 movement for everybody by itself is game breaking from the first turn.
Yeah, I think people who are unimpressed with the civ are wildly undervaluing how powerful this part is.
Consider how game-definingly strong abilities like Persia's and Hungary's are when they give +2 movement to just a specific subset of units under particular conditions.
A civ that got to start the game with a permanent +1 movement to all units, military and civilian, but had no other unique bonuses at all would be an above-average one. Getting that plus a bunch of other legitimately good bonuses is likely to make Gran Columbia a top-tier civ regardless of the fact that the best stuff comes online a little late.
Posts
I feel like I have enough info to make a decent judgment. I don’t feel like I have to have too much of a breakdown to decide whether 8 civs and 9 leaders is worth it at this point. The biggest mystery is the game modes, but I’m sure they will go over at least the one releasing in may before then.
You don't have to buy the $40 expansion pass. Each pack will also be sold individually, if you prefer to buy them that way.
Literally just started but I already have Gathering Storm so the gameplay doesn’t look all that different from what ive become used to. New civs are always nice though. Maybe now the achievements will actually trigger when I meet the requirements.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
The big systems like governors etc were also included in gathering storm, probably because it would have been a pain to maintain 2 versions of the gathering storm codebase.
Basically, they are new systems that are less tied to real world history than the systems introduced in the expansions.
The Devs wanted to make them optional to avoid overloading the game with complexity. They also didn't want to break the historical realism for players who prefer a more grounded experience.
But for veteran players who want an even crunchier experience that what Gathering Storm already provides, these new game modes will give them more plates to keep spinning. If you play with all six new game modes turned on at the same time, it will be like an entire expansion's worth of new systems being layered on top.
Ix Mutal Ajaw: non-capital cities within six tiles of the capital get +10% to all yields, every other city gets -15%. +5 combat for all units within 6 spaces of the capital
Mayab: they don't care about fresh water/coast for housing. Instead every farm gives 1.5 housing and +1 gold.
Hul'che: Archer replacement that's stronger and gets +5 attack against wounded units
Observatory: campus replacement, +2 adjacency bonus for plantations, +1 adjacency bonus for 2 farms
Only question is whether the bonus applies to all tiles owned by the city as long as the actual city tile is in range…
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
Way it reads is it's based on the city center only.
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
By contrast, plantation resources, especially plantation luxuries, are much more valuable. I assume the Maya will have a small starting bias for plantation resources.
As @Mr_Rose suggested, that's going to encourage settling in wide open plains and grasslands that other civs might ignore. It's similar to the civs who get bonuses to tundra or dessert, but not quite as on-the-nose.
The regional yield buff reminds me of Australia. Most civs don't care about appeal until the Industrial Era, but it becomes relevant to Australia much earlier than that. Likewise, regional buffs are something that most civs don't benefit from until the Industrial Era, but the Maya are an exception. The Steward governor's Vertical Integration ability will have a lot of synergy with the Maya's intended playstyle.
Corn and honey in as resources. Bonus and luxury, respectively, probably
Disasters: forest fires, meteor strikes (!). The meteors leave behind iron.
There's a new religious unit that is um...basically a wizard? Can force disasters.
Wonder when they post the preview for Bolivar and Gran Colombia.
Just to clarify, the new disasters and soothsayer unit are exclusive to Apocalypse Mode. You can turn them off if you don't like them.
The new resources will be available even when Apocalypse Mode is turned off.
It is weird to me that plagues aren't a thing in Civ considering the major impact they have had throughout history (the disease/health/ food thing from IV barely counts), but right now is obviously not the best timing to add them.
Another thing that they should have added, but would have been very challenging balance-wise, is more widespread climatic variation unrelated to specific events like floods, storms or eruptions. Entire empires and cultures have been whittled down and dispersed to other regions by sustained droughts and desertification long before greenhouse gases started having an impact.
I think that is more an issue of game balance vs history/fun, and probably a big reason why they are doing the game mode thing rather than just throwing everything into the main game.
Game changing “Megaevent” (invasions, plagues, etc) type things are kind of hard to balance, often either they are weak to the point of meaninglessness (chaos invasion in wh2, for example), or they are so strong they absolutely dominate the game and a large part of the game becomes planning around them (for example the attila invasion in attila total war, or stellaris’ end game events).
It seems like they are giving the wilder things their own little corner that is optional, so if you want big game changing events you can do that, and if you just want a normal game without worrying about massive realistic plagues, city destroying meteor strikes, or aliens invading during ww2, you can do that to.
Edit: Must have been a weird bug or some other factor I didn't notice. I can't replicate it.
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
Unique Leader Ability - Campana Admirable
Whenever Gran Colombia enters a new era, it automatically earns a unique unit, the Comandante General. This unit is granted regardless of which type of Age is triggered.
Unique Unit - Comandante General
This unique unit has a wide range of passive and active effects. The Comandante General can increase combat bonuses, upgrade military units and more. (Video says grant promotions, the passive great general effect, give you extra trade routes, and more)
Unique Ability - Ejercito Patriota
Gran Colombia’s unique ability grants additional movement to all units. Additionally, promoting units does not end that unit’s turn. (When they say all, that includes settlers and workers)
Unique Unit - Llanero
This musical warrior replaces the Cavalry unit and becomes stronger with each adjacent Llanero. If the Llanero is in range of a Commandante General activating their unique ability, the Llanero will regain all lost health.
Unique Improvement - Hacienda
The Hacienda provides Production, Gold and Housing bonuses, and a Food bonus for each adjacent Plantation. Haciendas and Plantations also receive Production bonuses for adjacent Haciendas.
Leaked Gran Colombia theme:
I see a lot of nice quality abilities but not much that stands out as “this is totally going to win me games” aside from domination.
Still probably an A or S tier civ though.
The video makes it look like the era the game starts in doesn't count for Bolivar's leader ability, so they will only have their speed boost to help them in the ancient era. After that they will only get two Comandante Generals to help them out in the classical and medieval eras.
The devs have confirmed that the Hacienda unlocks with the renaissance era civic Mercantilism. Since the Llanero replaces the cavalry, it can be assumed that it unlocks with the industrial era technology Military Science.
Gran Colombia ramps up exponentially the longer the game keeps going, but the challenge will be staying competitive until that point.
Yeah... And it is a domination civ and early game counts a lot.
I don’t think overall it is quite as good as, say, Persia but it is very close.
I'm trying to think of another nation that could fit the One City rules like Venice (that isn't another Italian city state).
Perhaps Lübeck or something to represent the Hanseatic League?
Yeah thats a huge advantage. Easier first meeting with city states, easier barb camp clearing
Builders can move onto hills and build a mine in one turn instead of two. That's the biggest advantage.
Yeah, I think people who are unimpressed with the civ are wildly undervaluing how powerful this part is.
Consider how game-definingly strong abilities like Persia's and Hungary's are when they give +2 movement to just a specific subset of units under particular conditions.
A civ that got to start the game with a permanent +1 movement to all units, military and civilian, but had no other unique bonuses at all would be an above-average one. Getting that plus a bunch of other legitimately good bonuses is likely to make Gran Columbia a top-tier civ regardless of the fact that the best stuff comes online a little late.