Guess its up to me to defend Voyager (what did I do to deserve this...).
Yes its got a bunch of problems, but its also not afraid to be Star Trek and to ask the kind of pretentious questions that Star Trek should ask, sometimes that means they end up doing an episode where the Pilot and the Captain transform into Salamanders, but it also means they've got a fantastic episodes about the allocation of resources in American Healthcare and several great episodes about whether a computer programs simulated ego-mania can cause it to gain sentience (Yes, these are all Doctor episodes.. but still...).
Voyager peaks as high as TOS, TNG, and DS9. Most of the time, though, it's Great Value Trek. I have complex feelings about it. It's the Trek I watched the most growing up--mandatory tv time on Mondays/Wednesdays from when I was 7 to 12--but I see more of its flaws now.
Enterprise doesn't peak at all until they got rid of Berman, and by then it was too late. Its valleys are as low as TNG's Code of Honor, but it has a lot more of them. I remember the exact moment I gave up on it. It was the night before my 15th birthday. My mom and I sat down to watch the season 3 finale, "Zero Hour." I'd hated Enterprise from jump but I stuck it out. I knew, from TNG, DS9, and VOY, that Trek shows didn't find their feet until three seasons in. Enterprise put the lie to that myth. When we got to the end, saw the massive twist of "alien Nazis," I looked at my mom and said, "Yeah, I'm done."
I never watched another episode of that show while it was airing.
Voyager has plenty of issues--really, it might be more bad than good--but Enterprise made me give up on Trek.
I would've liked to have seen moreof Manny Coto's Enterprise. It was obvious that he actually respected the franchise's source material, and he did what he could to fix a lot of the problems with the show up to that point (asshole, dogmatic Vulcans, T'Pol's mind meld STD, etc.).
One thing I felt Enterprise did better than Voyager was that when characters were in scenes it usually felt like it was because the writers actually wanted that character there. In voyager a lot of the time they could have just been extras and it wouldn't have made the slightest bit of difference.
One thing I felt Enterprise did better than Voyager was that when characters were in scenes it usually felt like it was because the writers actually wanted that character there. In voyager a lot of the time they could have just been extras and it wouldn't have made the slightest bit of difference.
One thing I felt Enterprise did better than Voyager was that when characters were in scenes it usually felt like it was because the writers actually wanted that character there. In voyager a lot of the time they could have just been extras and it wouldn't have made the slightest bit of difference.
Harry Kim wasn't an extra?
They promoted him from extra to Ensign.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
+10
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
Guess its up to me to defend Voyager (what did I do to deserve this...).
Yes its got a bunch of problems, but its also not afraid to be Star Trek and to ask the kind of pretentious questions that Star Trek should ask, sometimes that means they end up doing an episode where the Pilot and the Captain transform into Salamanders, but it also means they've got a fantastic episodes about the allocation of resources in American Healthcare and several great episodes about whether a computer programs simulated ego-mania can cause it to gain sentience (Yes, these are all Doctor episodes.. but still...).
Ha ha, I went back and forth on whether to do a Voyager defend post, I'm glad you took the bullet for us all.
It's like, I have a love for it, but I know it's terrible. I have no similar love for Enterprise. Maybe I should force myself to watch the whole thing some day, perhaps there would be one character stand out that I'd be able to remember fondly.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
One thing I felt Enterprise did better than Voyager was that when characters were in scenes it usually felt like it was because the writers actually wanted that character there. In voyager a lot of the time they could have just been extras and it wouldn't have made the slightest bit of difference.
Harry Kim wasn't an extra?
Chakotay is by far the worst offender.
+6
HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
I dunno. I think that all Trek has ever needed is a mixed cast with decent, dedicated actors and a smart, optimistic writer's room
That's the thing about Trek. It can work with barely anything. You could do Star Trek in a shed, with some monitors as bridge screens, and as long as you get the spirit right, fans will accept it
hm, so that's where Disco and Picard went wrong
0
HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
Guess its up to me to defend Voyager (what did I do to deserve this...).
Yes its got a bunch of problems, but its also not afraid to be Star Trek and to ask the kind of pretentious questions that Star Trek should ask, sometimes that means they end up doing an episode where the Pilot and the Captain transform into Salamanders, but it also means they've got a fantastic episodes about the allocation of resources in American Healthcare and several great episodes about whether a computer programs simulated ego-mania can cause it to gain sentience (Yes, these are all Doctor episodes.. but still...).
Ha ha, I went back and forth on whether to do a Voyager defend post, I'm glad you took the bullet for us all.
It's like, I have a love for it, but I know it's terrible. I have no similar love for Enterprise. Maybe I should force myself to watch the whole thing some day, perhaps there would be one character stand out that I'd be able to remember fondly.
assuming you like the Enterprise cast I would highly recommend season 4, it made me so sad we didn't get a season 5.
Guess its up to me to defend Voyager (what did I do to deserve this...).
Yes its got a bunch of problems, but its also not afraid to be Star Trek and to ask the kind of pretentious questions that Star Trek should ask, sometimes that means they end up doing an episode where the Pilot and the Captain transform into Salamanders, but it also means they've got a fantastic episodes about the allocation of resources in American Healthcare and several great episodes about whether a computer programs simulated ego-mania can cause it to gain sentience (Yes, these are all Doctor episodes.. but still...).
Ha ha, I went back and forth on whether to do a Voyager defend post, I'm glad you took the bullet for us all.
It's like, I have a love for it, but I know it's terrible. I have no similar love for Enterprise. Maybe I should force myself to watch the whole thing some day, perhaps there would be one character stand out that I'd be able to remember fondly.
The best character is Shran. By far.
Of the regular cast, I'd say Trip, T'Pol, and Phlox are the best. Which is probably damning with faint praise.
Guess its up to me to defend Voyager (what did I do to deserve this...).
Yes its got a bunch of problems, but its also not afraid to be Star Trek and to ask the kind of pretentious questions that Star Trek should ask, sometimes that means they end up doing an episode where the Pilot and the Captain transform into Salamanders, but it also means they've got a fantastic episodes about the allocation of resources in American Healthcare and several great episodes about whether a computer programs simulated ego-mania can cause it to gain sentience (Yes, these are all Doctor episodes.. but still...).
Ha ha, I went back and forth on whether to do a Voyager defend post, I'm glad you took the bullet for us all.
It's like, I have a love for it, but I know it's terrible. I have no similar love for Enterprise. Maybe I should force myself to watch the whole thing some day, perhaps there would be one character stand out that I'd be able to remember fondly.
Season 4 is mostly the saving grace for enterprise for me. There's some legitimately great episodes in there, and the two-parter right before the abysmally awful assassination that was the final episode is just really really great.
+2
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
Maybe I won't force myself to watch the first three seasons, then. I probably wouldn't be able to endure. I'll just watch s4 and skip the last episode.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
0
HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
Maybe I won't force myself to watch the first three seasons, then. I probably wouldn't be able to endure. I'll just watch s4 and skip the last episode.
oh have you never watched enterprise at all? Season 3 is decent enough, it's basically 1 long interconnected episode, not sure how well it has aged at this part. season 4 then moved to a full season of 3 episode arcs that were mostly enjoyable. The last episode is super dumb and the cast was really pissed off about it.
Voyager was mostly just very generic TNG clone. It's .... ok most of the time.
Enterprise is actively boring. And I don't think their attempts to shake that up in either S3 or S4 work in the end. And I'd argue the "try and explain TOS Klingons" is like the quintessential example of what was wrong with a lot of Enterprise's attempts to be an actual prequel.
Season 3 was too much post-911-hard-men-doing-hard-choices-BS for me. I usually just skip it on rewatch.
And I generally rank Enterprise in my top-3 star trek list.
0
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
Maybe I won't force myself to watch the first three seasons, then. I probably wouldn't be able to endure. I'll just watch s4 and skip the last episode.
oh have you never watched enterprise at all? Season 3 is decent enough, it's basically 1 long interconnected episode, not sure how well it has aged at this part. season 4 then moved to a full season of 3 episode arcs that were mostly enjoyable. The last episode is super dumb and the cast was really pissed off about it.
Like I've watched a couple of episodes? And a lot of SFDebris reviews of it. I feel like SFDebris is curating the experience for me so I can still be entertained while getting to know the characters kinda/sorta. Like I don't have to actually watch long stretches of people rubbing gel on each other, it get pleasantly condensed for me.
Edit: And yeah I'm not really behind "explaining the TOS Klingon's lack of headbumps." DS9 handled that subject perfectly just by saying "we do not speak of it." It don't need to be explained, I don't want it explained.
Cambiata on
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
Season 3 of Enterprise is—to date—the only season of any Star Trek show that's driven me to just bail on the show altogether. I get that the powers that be wanted to depict a version of humanity that wasn't as developed as what the previous series had presented us with, but the characters on Enterprise weren't even behaving like adults. Just a bunch of idiot teenagers in adult bodies on a spaceship, with a universe behind them trying to sell us on the absurd notion that they were the best of the best.
+2
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
edited May 2020
Archer bringing his fucking dog on a sensitive diplomatic mission, then getting angry because the aliens were offended that his dog peed on their sacred trees, JFC. Yeah that's dumb teenager behavior for sure. Why did they write it like that? They could have had a genuine reason for Archer - a supposedly practiced diplomat - to have gotten angry over the aliens' sensitivities. Like that Archer had scratched his nose with his left hand instead of his right hand, and that turned out to be a deep insult. Instead we got, "I brought my dog someplace I should never have brought my dog, and now I'm mad at other people because it turned out badly."
At least Janeway is an enjoyable to watch psychopath.
Cambiata on
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
+5
AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
Maybe I won't force myself to watch the first three seasons, then. I probably wouldn't be able to endure. I'll just watch s4 and skip the last episode.
oh have you never watched enterprise at all? Season 3 is decent enough, it's basically 1 long interconnected episode, not sure how well it has aged at this part. season 4 then moved to a full season of 3 episode arcs that were mostly enjoyable. The last episode is super dumb and the cast was really pissed off about it.
Like I've watched a couple of episodes? And a lot of SFDebris reviews of it. I feel like SFDebris is curating the experience for me so I can still be entertained while getting to know the characters kinda/sorta. Like I don't have to actually watch long stretches of people rubbing gel on each other, it get pleasantly condensed for me.
Edit: And yeah I'm not really behind "explaining the TOS Klingon's lack of headbumps." DS9 handled that subject perfectly just by saying "we do not speak of it." It don't need to be explained, I don't want it explained.
The Klingon-metamorphosis episodes are, to my recollection, some of the better ones in Enterprise, fwiw. The concept is fundamentally kind of silly but they're well executed.
John Schuck turns in some really good work in a role that could easily just have been a guy holding a metaphorical sign that said "Dr. Klingon, MD," and John Billingsley does a good job too.
Archer bringing his fucking dog on a sensitive diplomatic mission, then getting angry because the aliens were offended that his dog peed on their sacred trees, JFC. Yeah that's dumb teenager behavior for sure. Why did they write it like that? They could have had a genuine reason for Archer - a supposedly practiced diplomat - to have gotten angry over the aliens' sensitivities. Like that Archer had scratched his nose with his left hand instead of his right hand, and that turned out to be a deep insult. Instead we got, "I brought my dog someplace I should never have brought my dog, and now I'm mad at other people because it turned out badly."
At least Janeway is an enjoyable to watch psychopath.
The "angsty teenagers get a ship" acting was what killed the show for me. And what sucks is that it seems clear that was a conscious directing choice. The officers are all basically test pilots and I compare them to the pilots that ended up running the space program in the US. They may have been wild flyboys, but they knew how to be professional and work within the guidelines laid down by upper brass, and they were all experts in their respective fields. We weren't witness to Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong getting into a slapfight at the door of the lunar lander over who would get to walk on the moon first. Or Mike Collins whining to his superiors that it wasn't fair that he had to stay in the orbiter. A real life Archer would never have a dog on a long range space exploration ship in the first place, and he certainly wouldn't be bringing it onto a planet as part of a diplomatic mission because he'd be smart enough to know how dumb an idea that is.
I understand the need to create interesting stories and dramatic urgency in episodes means the characters may be a little more outlandish compared to their real world mirrors, but Enterprise seemed to take it way too far over the line.
Dark_Side on
+9
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
Oh yeah I remember why they wrote it like that, it was so that his fucking dog could get sick. WHICH IS YOUR OWN FAULT, ARCHER YOU TODDLER.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
+1
HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
Maybe I won't force myself to watch the first three seasons, then. I probably wouldn't be able to endure. I'll just watch s4 and skip the last episode.
oh have you never watched enterprise at all? Season 3 is decent enough, it's basically 1 long interconnected episode, not sure how well it has aged at this part. season 4 then moved to a full season of 3 episode arcs that were mostly enjoyable. The last episode is super dumb and the cast was really pissed off about it.
Like I've watched a couple of episodes? And a lot of SFDebris reviews of it. I feel like SFDebris is curating the experience for me so I can still be entertained while getting to know the characters kinda/sorta. Like I don't have to actually watch long stretches of people rubbing gel on each other, it get pleasantly condensed for me.
Edit: And yeah I'm not really behind "explaining the TOS Klingon's lack of headbumps." DS9 handled that subject perfectly just by saying "we do not speak of it." It don't need to be explained, I don't want it explained.
The Klingon-metamorphosis episodes are, to my recollection, some of the better ones in Enterprise, fwiw. The concept is fundamentally kind of silly but they're well executed.
John Schuck turns in some really good work in a role that could easily just have been a guy holding a metaphorical sign that said "Dr. Klingon, MD," and John Billingsley does a good job too.
ya exactly. I've never watched a SFDebris video (care to link some?) but the show itself was presented totally fine even if it was something that was silly to do.
I kinda feel that never having seen something, but some guys on YouTube told you it's crap, doesn't give you any real right to start slagging it off with such abandon.
Enterprise has aged pretty well - and there's an awful lot of people going back to it now and going, 'You know what? Enterprise wasn't bad. Actually, it was often really good".
Maybe I won't force myself to watch the first three seasons, then. I probably wouldn't be able to endure. I'll just watch s4 and skip the last episode.
oh have you never watched enterprise at all? Season 3 is decent enough, it's basically 1 long interconnected episode, not sure how well it has aged at this part. season 4 then moved to a full season of 3 episode arcs that were mostly enjoyable. The last episode is super dumb and the cast was really pissed off about it.
Like I've watched a couple of episodes? And a lot of SFDebris reviews of it. I feel like SFDebris is curating the experience for me so I can still be entertained while getting to know the characters kinda/sorta. Like I don't have to actually watch long stretches of people rubbing gel on each other, it get pleasantly condensed for me.
Edit: And yeah I'm not really behind "explaining the TOS Klingon's lack of headbumps." DS9 handled that subject perfectly just by saying "we do not speak of it." It don't need to be explained, I don't want it explained.
The Klingon-metamorphosis episodes are, to my recollection, some of the better ones in Enterprise, fwiw. The concept is fundamentally kind of silly but they're well executed.
John Schuck turns in some really good work in a role that could easily just have been a guy holding a metaphorical sign that said "Dr. Klingon, MD," and John Billingsley does a good job too.
ya exactly. I've never watched a SFDebris video (care to link some?) but the show itself was presented totally fine even if it was something that was silly to do.
What I like about SFDebris is that even if a show is overall bad, he'll point out the things that are done well, and that even if a show is overall good, he's not afraid to point out the flaws. He also clearly does a lot of research on what was happening in the backend that had an impact on what is happening on screen.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
0
HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
Maybe I won't force myself to watch the first three seasons, then. I probably wouldn't be able to endure. I'll just watch s4 and skip the last episode.
oh have you never watched enterprise at all? Season 3 is decent enough, it's basically 1 long interconnected episode, not sure how well it has aged at this part. season 4 then moved to a full season of 3 episode arcs that were mostly enjoyable. The last episode is super dumb and the cast was really pissed off about it.
Like I've watched a couple of episodes? And a lot of SFDebris reviews of it. I feel like SFDebris is curating the experience for me so I can still be entertained while getting to know the characters kinda/sorta. Like I don't have to actually watch long stretches of people rubbing gel on each other, it get pleasantly condensed for me.
Edit: And yeah I'm not really behind "explaining the TOS Klingon's lack of headbumps." DS9 handled that subject perfectly just by saying "we do not speak of it." It don't need to be explained, I don't want it explained.
The Klingon-metamorphosis episodes are, to my recollection, some of the better ones in Enterprise, fwiw. The concept is fundamentally kind of silly but they're well executed.
John Schuck turns in some really good work in a role that could easily just have been a guy holding a metaphorical sign that said "Dr. Klingon, MD," and John Billingsley does a good job too.
ya exactly. I've never watched a SFDebris video (care to link some?) but the show itself was presented totally fine even if it was something that was silly to do.
What I like about SFDebris is that even if a show is overall bad, he'll point out the things that are done well, and that even if a show is overall good, he's not afraid to point out the flaws. He also clearly does a lot of research on what was happening in the backend that had an impact on what is happening on screen.
oh weird, he has a youtube but these videos are on it even though a ton of other vids are. that makes it a hassle to watch on TV later then
0
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
Maybe I won't force myself to watch the first three seasons, then. I probably wouldn't be able to endure. I'll just watch s4 and skip the last episode.
oh have you never watched enterprise at all? Season 3 is decent enough, it's basically 1 long interconnected episode, not sure how well it has aged at this part. season 4 then moved to a full season of 3 episode arcs that were mostly enjoyable. The last episode is super dumb and the cast was really pissed off about it.
Like I've watched a couple of episodes? And a lot of SFDebris reviews of it. I feel like SFDebris is curating the experience for me so I can still be entertained while getting to know the characters kinda/sorta. Like I don't have to actually watch long stretches of people rubbing gel on each other, it get pleasantly condensed for me.
Edit: And yeah I'm not really behind "explaining the TOS Klingon's lack of headbumps." DS9 handled that subject perfectly just by saying "we do not speak of it." It don't need to be explained, I don't want it explained.
The Klingon-metamorphosis episodes are, to my recollection, some of the better ones in Enterprise, fwiw. The concept is fundamentally kind of silly but they're well executed.
John Schuck turns in some really good work in a role that could easily just have been a guy holding a metaphorical sign that said "Dr. Klingon, MD," and John Billingsley does a good job too.
ya exactly. I've never watched a SFDebris video (care to link some?) but the show itself was presented totally fine even if it was something that was silly to do.
What I like about SFDebris is that even if a show is overall bad, he'll point out the things that are done well, and that even if a show is overall good, he's not afraid to point out the flaws. He also clearly does a lot of research on what was happening in the backend that had an impact on what is happening on screen.
oh weird, he has a youtube but these videos are on it even though a ton of other vids are. that makes it a hassle to watch on TV later then
Yeah, he's had a problem with Youtube taking his videos down (multiple times), so a few years back he said fuck it and took them to another service.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
+2
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Archer is a wretched human being just for bringing his poor dog on the trip with him. The fact that Flox has a menagerie of creatures for research just kinda underlines that only a monster would bring a physically active pet onto a tiny ship, particularly when you've got long hours and weird scheduling.
I kinda feel that never having seen something, but some guys on YouTube told you it's crap, doesn't give you any real right to start slagging it off with such abandon.
Enterprise has aged pretty well - and there's an awful lot of people going back to it now and going, 'You know what? Enterprise wasn't bad. Actually, it was often really good".
As someone who's watched a bunch of it, Enterprise is as bad as it ever was. Time doesn't improve bad writing, bland characters and a non-zero amount of abject stupidity and insulting attempts at titillation.
+2
Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Yeah I'd echo the sentiments expressed by others re: the difference between Voyager and Enterprise.
You can watch an episode of Voyager here and there, because it was basically a poorly-done remake of TNG with less consistent characterization and diversity. Enterprise was so obnoxiously bad and nonsensical that I stopped watching it after a few episodes, and the few times I tried to re-engage (get it?!) with it, it would still be just as bad and boring as before.
+2
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
I kinda feel that never having seen something, but some guys on YouTube told you it's crap, doesn't give you any real right to start slagging it off with such abandon.
Enterprise has aged pretty well - and there's an awful lot of people going back to it now and going, 'You know what? Enterprise wasn't bad. Actually, it was often really good".
As a lover of a video game that everyone else hated (Mass Effect Andromeda) I feel you, but I have seen some Enterprise, and what I saw was painful and cringeworthy. You can't even get me to watch the first season of TNG over again, and I love that show. I don't think I have the fortitude to watch all of Enterprise, even at my most masochistic.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
Ahahaha my first thought on seeing sfdebris get mentioned was "I haven't checked his site for a while, wonder if he's reviewed the andromeda strain given world events"
yep
+2
Lord_AsmodeusgoeticSobriquet:Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered Userregular
edited May 2020
Brother referred this article to me. I've seen it mentioned as it being the writers talking about their goals, but it seems like an interpretation of what the show was trying to do, more than that directly from the writers?
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
0
Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Yeah that article reads like a massive fluff piece... They may have had all the best intentions in the world but the story was just not good.
+2
HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
Posts
Yes its got a bunch of problems, but its also not afraid to be Star Trek and to ask the kind of pretentious questions that Star Trek should ask, sometimes that means they end up doing an episode where the Pilot and the Captain transform into Salamanders, but it also means they've got a fantastic episodes about the allocation of resources in American Healthcare and several great episodes about whether a computer programs simulated ego-mania can cause it to gain sentience (Yes, these are all Doctor episodes.. but still...).
It wasted huge opportunities, and seeing year of hell makes me think about what could have been, every time.
And of course that they brought Jeri Ryan for sex appeal, but lucked out in that she actually is a great actress, too.
Her and Robert Picardo basically carrying the rest of the series on their backs
Enterprise doesn't peak at all until they got rid of Berman, and by then it was too late. Its valleys are as low as TNG's Code of Honor, but it has a lot more of them. I remember the exact moment I gave up on it. It was the night before my 15th birthday. My mom and I sat down to watch the season 3 finale, "Zero Hour." I'd hated Enterprise from jump but I stuck it out. I knew, from TNG, DS9, and VOY, that Trek shows didn't find their feet until three seasons in. Enterprise put the lie to that myth. When we got to the end, saw the massive twist of "alien Nazis," I looked at my mom and said, "Yeah, I'm done."
I never watched another episode of that show while it was airing.
Voyager has plenty of issues--really, it might be more bad than good--but Enterprise made me give up on Trek.
Harry Kim wasn't an extra?
They promoted him from extra to Ensign.
Ha ha, I went back and forth on whether to do a Voyager defend post, I'm glad you took the bullet for us all.
It's like, I have a love for it, but I know it's terrible. I have no similar love for Enterprise. Maybe I should force myself to watch the whole thing some day, perhaps there would be one character stand out that I'd be able to remember fondly.
Chakotay is by far the worst offender.
assuming you like the Enterprise cast I would highly recommend season 4, it made me so sad we didn't get a season 5.
The best character is Shran. By far.
Of the regular cast, I'd say Trip, T'Pol, and Phlox are the best. Which is probably damning with faint praise.
If no, he could be replaced by literally anyone and nothing would change.
If yes, haha fuck you it's sooooooo much worse.
Season 4 is mostly the saving grace for enterprise for me. There's some legitimately great episodes in there, and the two-parter right before the abysmally awful assassination that was the final episode is just really really great.
oh have you never watched enterprise at all? Season 3 is decent enough, it's basically 1 long interconnected episode, not sure how well it has aged at this part. season 4 then moved to a full season of 3 episode arcs that were mostly enjoyable. The last episode is super dumb and the cast was really pissed off about it.
Enterprise is actively boring. And I don't think their attempts to shake that up in either S3 or S4 work in the end. And I'd argue the "try and explain TOS Klingons" is like the quintessential example of what was wrong with a lot of Enterprise's attempts to be an actual prequel.
And I generally rank Enterprise in my top-3 star trek list.
Like I've watched a couple of episodes? And a lot of SFDebris reviews of it. I feel like SFDebris is curating the experience for me so I can still be entertained while getting to know the characters kinda/sorta. Like I don't have to actually watch long stretches of people rubbing gel on each other, it get pleasantly condensed for me.
Edit: And yeah I'm not really behind "explaining the TOS Klingon's lack of headbumps." DS9 handled that subject perfectly just by saying "we do not speak of it." It don't need to be explained, I don't want it explained.
At least Janeway is an enjoyable to watch psychopath.
The Klingon-metamorphosis episodes are, to my recollection, some of the better ones in Enterprise, fwiw. The concept is fundamentally kind of silly but they're well executed.
John Schuck turns in some really good work in a role that could easily just have been a guy holding a metaphorical sign that said "Dr. Klingon, MD," and John Billingsley does a good job too.
The "angsty teenagers get a ship" acting was what killed the show for me. And what sucks is that it seems clear that was a conscious directing choice. The officers are all basically test pilots and I compare them to the pilots that ended up running the space program in the US. They may have been wild flyboys, but they knew how to be professional and work within the guidelines laid down by upper brass, and they were all experts in their respective fields. We weren't witness to Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong getting into a slapfight at the door of the lunar lander over who would get to walk on the moon first. Or Mike Collins whining to his superiors that it wasn't fair that he had to stay in the orbiter. A real life Archer would never have a dog on a long range space exploration ship in the first place, and he certainly wouldn't be bringing it onto a planet as part of a diplomatic mission because he'd be smart enough to know how dumb an idea that is.
I understand the need to create interesting stories and dramatic urgency in episodes means the characters may be a little more outlandish compared to their real world mirrors, but Enterprise seemed to take it way too far over the line.
ya exactly. I've never watched a SFDebris video (care to link some?) but the show itself was presented totally fine even if it was something that was silly to do.
Enterprise has aged pretty well - and there's an awful lot of people going back to it now and going, 'You know what? Enterprise wasn't bad. Actually, it was often really good".
Thoughts of a Part-Time Hobbyist - A Wargaming and RPG Blog
From Enterprise specifically, or any video?
Here's one about Enterprise, specifically regarding one the Augments episodes, since we're discussing that: https://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/e191.php
Here's one about Voyager's Bride of Chaotica:
https://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/v907.php
What I like about SFDebris is that even if a show is overall bad, he'll point out the things that are done well, and that even if a show is overall good, he's not afraid to point out the flaws. He also clearly does a lot of research on what was happening in the backend that had an impact on what is happening on screen.
oh weird, he has a youtube but these videos are on it even though a ton of other vids are. that makes it a hassle to watch on TV later then
Yeah, he's had a problem with Youtube taking his videos down (multiple times), so a few years back he said fuck it and took them to another service.
As someone who's watched a bunch of it, Enterprise is as bad as it ever was. Time doesn't improve bad writing, bland characters and a non-zero amount of abject stupidity and insulting attempts at titillation.
You can watch an episode of Voyager here and there, because it was basically a poorly-done remake of TNG with less consistent characterization and diversity. Enterprise was so obnoxiously bad and nonsensical that I stopped watching it after a few episodes, and the few times I tried to re-engage (get it?!) with it, it would still be just as bad and boring as before.
As a lover of a video game that everyone else hated (Mass Effect Andromeda) I feel you, but I have seen some Enterprise, and what I saw was painful and cringeworthy. You can't even get me to watch the first season of TNG over again, and I love that show. I don't think I have the fortitude to watch all of Enterprise, even at my most masochistic.
yep
https://www.startrek.com/news/the-humbling-of-admiral-picard
published on startrek dot com? weird!