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[Star Wars] so you didn't send the fish Jedi immediately because...?

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Posts

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited May 2020
    shryke wrote: »
    The fact that anybody has to work to convince me that TLJ is a "love letter" to the OT precludes any ability I have to believe it really is a love letter. Johnson at least paid some attention to details of the setting, but TLJ is very much a film where Johnson had some big ideas for scenes and just kinda went "meh" if those scenes didn't match up to the setting in some glaring way or another.

    There's nothing about squabbling in the ranks, mistrust among the the Resistance members, tedious side trips, failing at your lifelong goals, or pointless messages about war profiteering that in any way resemble things I associate with Star Wars.

    It literally ends with a kid staring up the sky imagining he's a Jedi fighting for good against the evil empire. The movie is not subtle about it's views on Star Wars as a part of culture.

    This isn't a "love letter" to Star Wars, it's a staple Star Wars shot. And it isn't a very good reflection of the original shot, seeing as the original scene features a Luke that is anxious to go off and join the Empire, not fight against it. There's nothing more impressive or meaningful in the shot from TLJ than something you could slap into, say, a 30-second commercial for Galaxy's Edge, particularly since it's a completely random kid unrelated to the story in any way, other than having some Force ability and being on the same dull-ass planet at the same time as some actual characters.

    You can't describe something as a "staple shot" and then describe all the ways it's actually not that same thing. The last shot is not a love letter because it's aping some shot from ANH but because of the meaning of the shot, both within the narrative and meta-textually to the audience. The point is that it's a kid holding a broom handle as an imaginary lightsaber, imagining he's a jedi fighting the bad guys. Within the movie it's a commentary on the success of Luke Skywalker's actions. The way he has brought hope to the Resistance and how his legacy has spread far and wide. Which is exactly the thing the First Order feared since the beginning of the movie. But it is also, as a lot of things are in the movie, a reflection on the audience too. The Star Wars fan is that child, who saw the stories of Luke Skywalker and did the exactly same thing he's doing.

    Kylo Ren, the bad guy, wants to destroy the past. Rey wants to preserve it. To take that history and use it to move forward. In the end Luke Skywalker the legend, the story, is what saves the day. The tale that inspires future generations. These themes are woven throughout the whole film.

    shryke on
  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    Luke hated Tatooine. To the point that he was willing to sign up with fascists to get off it. Him seeing the twin suns as he dies doesn't come across as wistful nostalgia, it looks like a man realizing he's heading to hell.

  • Havelock2.0Havelock2.0 Sufficiently Chill The Chill ZoneRegistered User regular
    Luke hated Tatooine. To the point that he was willing to sign up with fascists to get off it. Him seeing the twin suns as he dies doesn't come across as wistful nostalgia, it looks like a man realizing he's heading to hell.

    you and I saw completely different movies

    I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
  • ZavianZavian universal peace sounds better than forever war Registered User regular
    Yes. Luke’s pent up hatred and sexual frustration is what led to him having dark side powers enabling him to blow up the Death Star along with the hundreds of thousands of innocent conscripted Imperial troops stationed on it.

    Luke was really the villain all along

  • Havelock2.0Havelock2.0 Sufficiently Chill The Chill ZoneRegistered User regular
    edited May 2020
    I mean, he was 19

    of course he hated being stuck on Tatooine

    I hated my home town when I was 19 because it felt small and I felt stuck

    when I go back now it's comforting because it's my old home

    where I grew up

    In TLJ Luke force-hallucinating the Twin Suns was him going home, he was becoming one with the Force.

    Havelock2.0 on
    I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
  • ZavianZavian universal peace sounds better than forever war Registered User regular
    I mean, Tatooine seemed to have pretty good shady bars and criminal scum palaces filled with slave girls and bad music. Couldn’t be that terrible

  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    Why is Holdo's kamikaze good while Finn's kamikaze is bad?

  • jdarksunjdarksun Struggler VARegistered User regular
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Why is Holdo's kamikaze good while Finn's kamikaze is bad?
    Something something mumble love something something.

  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Why is Holdo's kamikaze good while Finn's kamikaze is bad?

    Because Holdo's kamikaze broke the Superiority in two.
    Finn's kamikaze might have scratched the paint on the siege cannon, assuming he wasn't atomized by it firing first.

  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Why is Holdo's kamikaze good while Finn's kamikaze is bad?

    Because Holdo does it as a last resort gamble to save the Resistance ships being shot at, whereas Finn's kamikaze attempt probably wouldn't even scratch the cannon and he's just doing it because he wants to punch the First Order, no matter how ineffectual that punch may be.

  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    edited May 2020
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Why is Holdo's kamikaze good while Finn's kamikaze is bad?

    a major theme in TLJ is that a one-size-fits-all solution is actually not a solution

    abandoning the past by all means necessary blinds you and drives you to darkness

    clinging to the past and letting it define your present destroys your future and prevents you from contributing to the world

    refusing to take a side in a major conflict actually doesn't remove you from that conflict, but aids the oppressive force

    self-sacrifice can be noble and important, but we shouldn't seek it as an end necessarily, particularly when it wouldn't meaningfully change anything (they'd still be pinned irreversibly in the bunker awaiting death)

    BloodySloth on
  • Havelock2.0Havelock2.0 Sufficiently Chill The Chill ZoneRegistered User regular
    I read it as that Holdo's was a noble sacrifice, whereas Finn was acting out of a self-destructive need to prove himself not a coward.

    I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    Yep. Holdo did what needed to be done to protect what she loved. Finn was about to self destruct trying to kill some rando.

  • ZavianZavian universal peace sounds better than forever war Registered User regular
    Why did Kenobi sacrifice himself when he could have just force jumped or something. And why did he say he would become a force more powerful than Vader when he just became a talking force ghost

  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    Luke hated Tatooine. To the point that he was willing to sign up with fascists to get off it. Him seeing the twin suns as he dies doesn't come across as wistful nostalgia, it looks like a man realizing he's heading to hell.

    you and I saw completely different movies

    I mean, there are a lot of different editions of A New Hope, so maybe? But the truth is, Luke didn't come equipped with an ideology. He wanted out of town and he planned to follow his buddy into enlisting.

  • GiantGeek2020GiantGeek2020 Registered User regular
    Luke hated Tatooine. To the point that he was willing to sign up with fascists to get off it. Him seeing the twin suns as he dies doesn't come across as wistful nostalgia, it looks like a man realizing he's heading to hell.

    you and I saw completely different movies

    I mean, there are a lot of different editions of A New Hope, so maybe? But the truth is, Luke didn't come equipped with an ideology. He wanted out of town and he planned to follow his buddy into enlisting.

    Though he does tell Kenobi he hates the Empire. But that its too far to travel.

  • Havelock2.0Havelock2.0 Sufficiently Chill The Chill ZoneRegistered User regular
    Luke hated Tatooine. To the point that he was willing to sign up with fascists to get off it. Him seeing the twin suns as he dies doesn't come across as wistful nostalgia, it looks like a man realizing he's heading to hell.

    you and I saw completely different movies

    I mean, there are a lot of different editions of A New Hope, so maybe? But the truth is, Luke didn't come equipped with an ideology. He wanted out of town and he planned to follow his buddy into enlisting.

    I agree, but reading the initial post presents a take on Luke and that scene from TLJ in particular that to me requires an immensely cynical outlook.

    Like it's a nod to the Binary Sunset Scene in ANH where we first hear the theme of the Force play. It's a bookend.

    I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    In the deleted scenes with Biggs and Luke they mention that they've talked about joining the rebellion in the past, and Biggs tells Luke that he met some rebellion people while at the Academy, and Luke says that if he ever manages to get to the Academy there's no way he's gonna let himself be drafted by the Empire.

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited May 2020
    reVerse wrote: »
    In the deleted scenes with Biggs and Luke they mention that they've talked about joining the rebellion in the past, and Biggs tells Luke that he met some rebellion people while at the Academy, and Luke says that if he ever manages to get to the Academy there's no way he's gonna let himself be drafted by the Empire.

    Sure but the thing about deleted scenes is that they aren't part of the text any more.

    DarkPrimus on
  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    Luke hated Tatooine. To the point that he was willing to sign up with fascists to get off it. Him seeing the twin suns as he dies doesn't come across as wistful nostalgia, it looks like a man realizing he's heading to hell.

    you and I saw completely different movies

    I mean, there are a lot of different editions of A New Hope, so maybe? But the truth is, Luke didn't come equipped with an ideology. He wanted out of town and he planned to follow his buddy into enlisting.

    I agree, but reading the initial post presents a take on Luke and that scene from TLJ in particular that to me requires an immensely cynical outlook.

    Like it's a nod to the Binary Sunset Scene in ANH where we first hear the theme of the Force play. It's a bookend.

    I get what it is, I just disagree that it's poignant or a love letter. It felt cursory. It's kinda like if Peter O'Toole died and his obituary read "in memory of Peter O'Toole, of King Ralph fame..." If that scene stirred emotions in you, I'm glad. My reaction was tempered by just watching Leia get blown into space and knowing Luke sat idly by. Wistful memories of Tatooine after that struck me as hollow.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Except it's not a "hey, remember that scene on Tatooine?" thing. That's not the point of it, as I mentioned earlier. It's not meant to be a "hey, remember this scene from ANH" ala the last scene of TROS. It's speaking to a completely different feeling.

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    In the deleted scenes with Biggs and Luke they mention that they've talked about joining the rebellion in the past, and Biggs tells Luke that he met some rebellion people while at the Academy, and Luke says that if he ever manages to get to the Academy there's no way he's gonna let himself be drafted by the Empire.

    Sure but the thing about deleted scenes is that they aren't part of the text any more.

    But I feel like it helps us determine who wins the most internet points in this argument

  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Except it's not a "hey, remember that scene on Tatooine?" thing. That's not the point of it, as I mentioned earlier. It's not meant to be a "hey, remember this scene from ANH" ala the last scene of TROS. It's speaking to a completely different feeling.

    I am talking to another poster about the feelings evoked by Luke seeing the twin suns. I assume you are talking about the kid with the broom?

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Wait are some of you arguing about the scene of Luke dying in TLJ and the other the scene of Broom Kid

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Also at the times Luke is thinking/talking about this, the Senate still exists and the Empire hasn’t gone full Third Reich yet

    My god what am I doing

  • Havelock2.0Havelock2.0 Sufficiently Chill The Chill ZoneRegistered User regular
    Also at the times Luke is thinking/talking about this, the Senate still exists and the Empire hasn’t gone full Third Reich yet

    My god what am I doing

    It is pointless to resist

    I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
  • jdarksunjdarksun Struggler VARegistered User regular
    see317 wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Why is Holdo's kamikaze good while Finn's kamikaze is bad?
    Because Holdo's kamikaze broke the Superiority in two.
    Finn's kamikaze might have scratched the paint on the siege cannon, assuming he wasn't atomized by it firing first.
    Hogwash.

    Poe = bad! His actions only destroyed one ship!
    Holdo = good! Her actions destroyed one ship!
    reVerse wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Why is Holdo's kamikaze good while Finn's kamikaze is bad?
    Because Holdo does it as a last resort gamble to save the Resistance ships being shot at, whereas Finn's kamikaze attempt probably wouldn't even scratch the cannon and he's just doing it because he wants to punch the First Order, no matter how ineffectual that punch may be.
    Nah.

    We've seen one small ship kamikaze into bigger ships multiple times in Star Wars, we have no reason to expect one (Holdo's) to work and the other (Finn's) not to.
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Why is Holdo's kamikaze good while Finn's kamikaze is bad?

    a major theme in TLJ is that a one-size-fits-all solution is actually not a solution

    abandoning the past by all means necessary blinds you and drives you to darkness

    clinging to the past and letting it define your present destroys your future and prevents you from contributing to the world

    refusing to take a side in a major conflict actually doesn't remove you from that conflict, but aids the oppressive force

    self-sacrifice can be noble and important, but we shouldn't seek it as an end necessarily, particularly when it wouldn't meaningfully change anything (they'd still be pinned irreversibly in the bunker awaiting death)
    I mean this is like 90% of a really good point. As far as I can tell, the only difference is which one is acting out of presumed selflessness (Holdo and Luke) vs. presumed selfishness (Poe and Finn). But that also means if you swap Finn's and Holdo's dialogues during their scenes, the "good" sacrifice gets flipped; if Holdo is sacrificing out of anger and hatred, it becomes "bad."

    The last point is rubbish, Holdo's sacrifice ultimately had the same impact as Finn's would have: nothing. The First Order found the Resistance anyway, all she possibly did is buy them a little time - which Finn's sacrifice might have done as well.

  • hlprmnkyhlprmnky Registered User regular
    Broom Kid!
    versus
    Mostly Dead Luke!
    hajime!

    _
    Your Ad Here! Reasonable Rates!
  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    *walks in thread*

    *Sees TLJ talk in the year of our Lord 2020*

    *Backflips away swiftly*

  • Havelock2.0Havelock2.0 Sufficiently Chill The Chill ZoneRegistered User regular
    edited May 2020
    Holdo's sacrifice crippled enough of the First Order fleet and trashed the Overcompensation as well.

    Finn's stunt would have had all the effect of a moth divebombing a bug zapper. A futile and stupid gesture

    Havelock2.0 on
    I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    edited May 2020
    jdarksun wrote: »

    The last point is rubbish, Holdo's sacrifice ultimately had the same impact as Finn's would have: nothing. The First Order found the Resistance anyway, all she possibly did is buy them a little time - which Finn's sacrifice might have done as well.

    They literally all would have died before reaching planetfall if Holdo hadn't sacrificed herself; the only reason she did what she did is because she saw that the gambit hadn't worked and the escape pods were being shot down by the ship she ultimately flew into.

    Edit: I feel like it should be noted that no one is, like, celebrating Holdo's death. It was a solemn moment, a shitty situation, and she was forced into it. None of these things is true with regards to Finn's actions later in the movie.

    BloodySloth on
  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »

    The last point is rubbish, Holdo's sacrifice ultimately had the same impact as Finn's would have: nothing. The First Order found the Resistance anyway, all she possibly did is buy them a little time - which Finn's sacrifice might have done as well.

    They literally all would have died before reaching planetfall if Holdo hadn't sacrificed herself; the only reason she did what she did is because she saw that the gambit hadn't worked and the escape pods were being shot down by the ship she ultimately flew into.

    Edit: I feel like it should be noted that no one is, like, celebrating Holdo's death. It was a solemn moment, a shitty situation, and she was forced into it. None of these things is true with regards to Finn's actions later in the movie.

    The difference between Holdo and Finn is Luke. Is Luke Skywalker about to bail your ass out? If no, sacrifice is awesome. If he is, sacrificing yourself is for rubes. Rose read the script and knew the right answer.

  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    The fact that anybody has to work to convince me that TLJ is a "love letter" to the OT precludes any ability I have to believe it really is a love letter. Johnson at least paid some attention to details of the setting, but TLJ is very much a film where Johnson had some big ideas for scenes and just kinda went "meh" if those scenes didn't match up to the setting in some glaring way or another.

    There's nothing about squabbling in the ranks, mistrust among the the Resistance members, tedious side trips, failing at your lifelong goals, or pointless messages about war profiteering that in any way resemble things I associate with Star Wars.

    It literally ends with a kid staring up the sky imagining he's a Jedi fighting for good against the evil empire. The movie is not subtle about it's views on Star Wars as a part of culture.

    This isn't a "love letter" to Star Wars, it's a staple Star Wars shot. And it isn't a very good reflection of the original shot, seeing as the original scene features a Luke that is anxious to go off and join the Empire, not fight against it. There's nothing more impressive or meaningful in the shot from TLJ than something you could slap into, say, a 30-second commercial for Galaxy's Edge, particularly since it's a completely random kid unrelated to the story in any way, other than having some Force ability and being on the same dull-ass planet at the same time as some actual characters.

    No? Again with the “have you seen star wars?!”. He wants to go to the academy so he can join the rebellion. Like Biggs did. After which Owen chides him and explains how he wont be going off on some “damn fool crusade” like his father. Not until the harvest is done at least.

    Luke is not anxious about anything in that scene he is longing for adventure in the stars...

    Edit as an aside. Did you realize that ach-to only has one sun?

    Luke wants to join The Imperial Academy to join the Rebellion?

    At the risk if being a broken record, the Imperial Academy is the best place to learn how to fly - especially if you want to defect five seconds after graduating.

    RedTide#1907 on Battle.net
    Come Overwatch with meeeee
  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    Like a distinct advantage the Confederacy enjoyed during the American Civil War is that some if not all of its best and brightest generals/officers had been trained at West Point.

    Many in an era where armed conflict seemed close on the horizon.

    RedTide#1907 on Battle.net
    Come Overwatch with meeeee
  • jdarksunjdarksun Struggler VARegistered User regular
    Finn's stunt would have had all the effect of a moth divebombing a bug zapper. A futile and stupid gesture
    Why though? Serious question. Holdo flies into a bigger ship, space hero! Finn flies into a bigger ship, boo get off the stage. They were both trying to do the same thing, in the same material manner: sacrifice themselves to save their friends by flying a littler ship into a bigger one.
    jdarksun wrote: »
    The last point is rubbish, Holdo's sacrifice ultimately had the same impact as Finn's would have: nothing. The First Order found the Resistance anyway, all she possibly did is buy them a little time - which Finn's sacrifice might have done as well.
    They literally all would have died before reaching planetfall if Holdo hadn't sacrificed herself; the only reason she did what she did is because she saw that the gambit hadn't worked and the escape pods were being shot down by the ship she ultimately flew into.

    Edit: I feel like it should be noted that no one is, like, celebrating Holdo's death. It was a solemn moment, a shitty situation, and she was forced into it. None of these things is true with regards to Finn's actions later in the movie.
    OK, but that can't be the only thing, because Finn is trying to do the same thing: sacrifice himself to protect people. But he's ultimately derided for trying. Like the biggest difference I can think of? Holdo is the commanding officer when she makes her choice. Finn goes against Poe's orders.

    We're not celebrating her death, but we do laud it as noble and important. It's given weight, gravitas, dignity. Finn's actions aren't. But that doesn't make his actions inherently any less noble; it's the ... directorial? ... equivalent of telling instead of showing. We know Holdo's actions are good because the movie tells us! We get a big fancy explosion and people are like "woah, what a hero." Finn tries it and Rose hits him with a PIT maneuver and goes all "We're going to win [by] saving what we love!" ... which is nonsense. The sets of actions are not materially different. Is the intent behind them all that matters? Don't sacrifice out of hate, but sacrifice out of love?

  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Finn's stunt would have had all the effect of a moth divebombing a bug zapper. A futile and stupid gesture
    Why though? Serious question. Holdo flies into a bigger ship, space hero! Finn flies into a bigger ship, boo get off the stage. They were both trying to do the same thing, in the same material manner: sacrifice themselves to save their friends by flying a littler ship into a bigger one.
    jdarksun wrote: »
    The last point is rubbish, Holdo's sacrifice ultimately had the same impact as Finn's would have: nothing. The First Order found the Resistance anyway, all she possibly did is buy them a little time - which Finn's sacrifice might have done as well.
    They literally all would have died before reaching planetfall if Holdo hadn't sacrificed herself; the only reason she did what she did is because she saw that the gambit hadn't worked and the escape pods were being shot down by the ship she ultimately flew into.

    Edit: I feel like it should be noted that no one is, like, celebrating Holdo's death. It was a solemn moment, a shitty situation, and she was forced into it. None of these things is true with regards to Finn's actions later in the movie.
    OK, but that can't be the only thing, because Finn is trying to do the same thing: sacrifice himself to protect people. But he's ultimately derided for trying. Like the biggest difference I can think of? Holdo is the commanding officer when she makes her choice. Finn goes against Poe's orders.

    We're not celebrating her death, but we do laud it as noble and important. It's given weight, gravitas, dignity. Finn's actions aren't. But that doesn't make his actions inherently any less noble; it's the ... directorial? ... equivalent of telling instead of showing. We know Holdo's actions are good because the movie tells us! We get a big fancy explosion and people are like "woah, what a hero." Finn tries it and Rose hits him with a PIT maneuver and goes all "We're going to win [by] saving what we love!" ... which is nonsense. The sets of actions are not materially different. Is the intent behind them all that matters? Don't sacrifice out of hate, but sacrifice out of love?

    Again, people are in the process of exploding when Holdo makes her decision. The fate of the rebellion in the bunker is not as clear. Finn isn't being forced into that immediate decision. And who knows; if there was someone who loved Holdo in a position to stop her from acting in the way she did, the scene may have played out differently. Part of the pain of that scene is the escaping characters seeing it play out and being unable to change it.

    Is there an element of motivation giving the different actions different value? I mean, yeah. But that's Star Wars. The emotions that drive an action are important. It's not the only thing that matters, I want to be clear on that, and it's not the only acting force in that scene, but it has been a heavy theme in Star Wars since the very, very beginning.

  • TubularLuggageTubularLuggage Registered User regular
    edited May 2020
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Finn's stunt would have had all the effect of a moth divebombing a bug zapper. A futile and stupid gesture
    Why though? Serious question. Holdo flies into a bigger ship, space hero! Finn flies into a bigger ship, boo get off the stage. They were both trying to do the same thing, in the same material manner: sacrifice themselves to save their friends by flying a littler ship into a bigger one.
    jdarksun wrote: »
    The last point is rubbish, Holdo's sacrifice ultimately had the same impact as Finn's would have: nothing. The First Order found the Resistance anyway, all she possibly did is buy them a little time - which Finn's sacrifice might have done as well.
    They literally all would have died before reaching planetfall if Holdo hadn't sacrificed herself; the only reason she did what she did is because she saw that the gambit hadn't worked and the escape pods were being shot down by the ship she ultimately flew into.

    Edit: I feel like it should be noted that no one is, like, celebrating Holdo's death. It was a solemn moment, a shitty situation, and she was forced into it. None of these things is true with regards to Finn's actions later in the movie.
    OK, but that can't be the only thing, because Finn is trying to do the same thing: sacrifice himself to protect people. But he's ultimately derided for trying. Like the biggest difference I can think of? Holdo is the commanding officer when she makes her choice. Finn goes against Poe's orders.

    We're not celebrating her death, but we do laud it as noble and important. It's given weight, gravitas, dignity. Finn's actions aren't. But that doesn't make his actions inherently any less noble; it's the ... directorial? ... equivalent of telling instead of showing. We know Holdo's actions are good because the movie tells us! We get a big fancy explosion and people are like "woah, what a hero." Finn tries it and Rose hits him with a PIT maneuver and goes all "We're going to win [by] saving what we love!" ... which is nonsense. The sets of actions are not materially different. Is the intent behind them all that matters? Don't sacrifice out of hate, but sacrifice out of love?

    Holdo - Forced to do it, for love, made a big difference.
    Finn - Not forced to do it, out of anger, would not have made a difference.

    Is that simple enough for you? Or have you just committed to never reevaluating your stance based on new information or explanations?
    The sets of actions are not materially different.
    YES. THEY. ARE.
    I mean, I guess if you ignore the circumstances, subtext and themes, character motivations, large chunks of the movie up to those points, etc, then maybe they're the same.

    TubularLuggage on
  • Giggles_FunsworthGiggles_Funsworth Blight on Discourse Bay Area SprawlRegistered User regular
    Really unfortunate about Saw Gerrera leading the Isis insurgents in hindsight, whoops!

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    The difference is pretty straightforward.
    Holdo sacrifices herself to save the Resistance.
    Finn wants to sacrifice himself to hurt the First Order, knowing it's not going to change the outcome of the fight.

    That's it. That's the whole deal. Finn isn't trying to save anyone, he's just trying to make the First Order hurt a bit.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited May 2020
    Goumindong wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    The fact that anybody has to work to convince me that TLJ is a "love letter" to the OT precludes any ability I have to believe it really is a love letter. Johnson at least paid some attention to details of the setting, but TLJ is very much a film where Johnson had some big ideas for scenes and just kinda went "meh" if those scenes didn't match up to the setting in some glaring way or another.

    There's nothing about squabbling in the ranks, mistrust among the the Resistance members, tedious side trips, failing at your lifelong goals, or pointless messages about war profiteering that in any way resemble things I associate with Star Wars.

    It literally ends with a kid staring up the sky imagining he's a Jedi fighting for good against the evil empire. The movie is not subtle about it's views on Star Wars as a part of culture.

    This isn't a "love letter" to Star Wars, it's a staple Star Wars shot. And it isn't a very good reflection of the original shot, seeing as the original scene features a Luke that is anxious to go off and join the Empire, not fight against it. There's nothing more impressive or meaningful in the shot from TLJ than something you could slap into, say, a 30-second commercial for Galaxy's Edge, particularly since it's a completely random kid unrelated to the story in any way, other than having some Force ability and being on the same dull-ass planet at the same time as some actual characters.

    No? Again with the “have you seen star wars?!”. He wants to go to the academy so he can join the rebellion. Like Biggs did. After which Owen chides him and explains how he wont be going off on some “damn fool crusade” like his father. Not until the harvest is done at least.

    Luke is not anxious about anything in that scene he is longing for adventure in the stars...

    Edit as an aside. Did you realize that ach-to only has one sun?

    Luke wants to join The Imperial Academy to join the Rebellion?

    Yes. Its literally in the text of the movie. They even leave out the “imperial” part of the academy so as to not confuse you. I will admit its not quite as clear as i first thought... but its still really fucking clear.

    When Luke first cleans threpio and r2. Before he sees the recording. C3P0 off hand mentions that he is adjacent to the rebellion and luke is all “you know of the rebellion!” In a “tell me fucking more how do i join up” sense.

    Immediately after this we get the scene with him arguing about how he wants to join the academy this year and not next year like their prior agreement. And uncle owen shuts him down. Then he goes off to look at the twin suns as the sun sets. And as he gets sad that we wont have his adventure the music gets sad. He isnt apprehensive about going to an academy that he isnt going to because his uncle has prevented it.

    Then he finds r2 gone and his adventure starts.

    Goumindong on
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