Also count me down for "skip it further in the future and redesign the tech base" but that's mostly because there was never any attempt to balance clan vs IS and that just ... needs to change.
I don't believe the Dragon has ever had a hand in BattleTech, that might be a MWO thing (it had a second gun arm in MW4). It had the club hand in TRO 3025 and all the previous minis, and I believe it lacks a hand actuator on its official record sheet.
The 4th edition paper token looks like it has a hand though.
Oh yeah, he does! I'd forgotten about that.
It's weird, because there's a cool image on the back of fourth edition's Setting Introduction/Quick-Start Manual that has the claw hand.
This is pretty much where my mind always goes when I think of the Dragon, hence why I tend to forget that its right arm has an elbow (lower arm actuator).
Also count me down for "skip it further in the future and redesign the tech base" but that's mostly because there was never any attempt to balance clan vs IS and that just ... needs to change.
I think for Dark Age I would've done something along the lines of HPG gone and any files on computers also gone. Why? Because something something technobabble Blakists. Then start the setting 300-400 years after that event and the Inner Sphere being a rather different place as new nations have emerged from the chaos. In place of the HPG they have developed something of an HPG-lite that allows them to send what amounts to space-telegraphs. The people of this time would know of BattleMechs and how amazing they were, but would lack the know-how (quite literally) to build old designs, so they just kinda wing it. Basically designing BattleMechs from what amounts to hearsay and maybe some old photgraphs.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
Also count me down for "skip it further in the future and redesign the tech base" but that's mostly because there was never any attempt to balance clan vs IS and that just ... needs to change.
I think for Dark Age I would've done something along the lines of HPG gone and any files on computers also gone. Why? Because something something technobabble Blakists. Then start the setting 300-400 years after that event and the Inner Sphere being a rather different place as new nations have emerged from the chaos. In place of the HPG they have developed something of an HPG-lite that allows them to send what amounts to space-telegraphs. The people of this time would know of BattleMechs and how amazing they were, but would lack the know-how (quite literally) to build old designs, so they just kinda wing it. Basically designing BattleMechs from what amounts to hearsay and maybe some old photgraphs.
When I read another, harsher technological regression I just think "ugh". Honestly I don't even know much about the Jihad and Dark Age eras of Battletech because the names alone propose a sequence of events I expect to find distasteful.
All I want from a furthered timeline is intermixed technology and an evolved political situation where you've got all the Houses and Clans you know and love, all out for themselves with no one but the most diehard clans having a problem working "cross faction", e.g. Clan Ghost Bear is just another nation and sometimes it fights against its neighboring Great Houses and sometimes it allies with them to fight against another clan or house, etc.
Expand the map out to include clan space and say maybe the periphery states took advantage of rediscovered lostech and the distraction of the Great Houses during the clan invasion to expand aggressively outwards. Maybe theses nouveau riche periphery states with their expanded access to resources upset the political balance some, maybe it's a good opportunity to add new factions or flesh out the old ones.
Plenty of opportunity for actual growth amidst the properties we know and love from the 3025 era and clan invasion without hamfistedly mashing the reset button.
Lanlaorn on
+3
H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
When I read another, harsher technological regression I just think "ugh". Honestly I don't even know much about the Jihad and Dark Age eras of Battletech because the names alone propose a sequence of events I expect to find distasteful.
All I want from a furthered timeline is intermixed technology and an evolved political situation where you've got all the Houses and Clans you know and love, all out for themselves with no one but the most diehard clans having a problem working "cross faction", e.g. Clan Ghost Bear is just another nation and sometimes it fights against its neighboring Great Houses and sometimes it allies with them to fight against another clan or house, etc.
Expand the map out to include clan space and say maybe the periphery states took advantage of rediscovered lostech and the distraction of the Great Houses during the clan invasion to expand aggressively outwards. Maybe theses nouveau riche periphery states with their expanded access to resources upset the political balance some, maybe it's a good opportunity to add new factions or flesh out the old ones.
Plenty of opportunity for actual growth amidst the properties we know and love from the 3025 era and clan invasion without hamfistedly mashing the reset button.
@Lanlaorn To be fair, the jihad didn't cause a technological regression, just a massive loss of life and political upheaval due to widespread acts of terrorism and unrestricted use of weapons of mass destruction. IMHO it wasn't a very good story arc, but for other reasons. The "Dark Age" of MW:DA is referring to a partial blackout of the HPG network that kicks off a new era of conflict by severely restricting interstellar communications in such a way that smaller, regional authorities suddenly became a lot more important once again, leading to the kind of political instability you'd expect from neofeudalism. Early on, there's a massive shortage of military hardware and the production capabilities for it because of over half a century of peace in the IS (leading to industrial and forestry mechs getting pressed into service with spare weapons attached), but the knowledge base for the tech is intact. MW:DA isn't another tech regression, but a geopolitical (astropolitical?) and military-industrial complex regression.
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
Im not too big a fan of the technological regression myself, MW:DA struck me as an attempt to “soft-boot” the franchise to bring in new people (which I am in favor of). However IMHO it changed too much about the politics in too short a time. A lot of the same characters are still running around. On top of that the IS/Clan balance problem is still a thing. So really all it did was upend a lot of stuff old time fans liked without really doing anything to bring in new fans.
As to expanding the Battletech timeline, personally I’d be A-OK if CGL just ignores everything past the FedCom Civil War and simply come up with some other stuff.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
I didn't mind Dark Age, especially once CGL got into it. Honestly the 3145+ era has been one of my very favorites, aside from the sluggish pace of advancement. I love how dynamic the environment is, how you could plausibly have a fight between almost any pair of factions. I also love how the expansion of tech options has enabled each faction to have a more recognizably distinct feel. I also like the looming mysteries that could be important down the line. The Homeworld Clans are still out there, and who knows what form they'll take. A shitload of Blakist materiel is unaccounted for, along with a bunch of Manei Domini (maybe including Arthur Steiner-Davion?). And, of course, I don't think we really know what happened to the Wolverines.
They apparently received an “official” response from General Motors over the Blackjack video that was very tongue in cheek.
It was a good 1.5 hour lecture, and he kept having to say “we'll talk about this in another video in the future.” He does spend a bit of time on Clan Wolverine, but also states that there’s a lot more there and it’ll have to be one of the future Tex talks.
They apparently received an “official” response from General Motors over the Blackjack video that was very tongue in cheek.
It was a good 1.5 hour lecture, and he kept having to say “we'll talk about this in another video in the future.” He does spend a bit of time on Clan Wolverine, but also states that there’s a lot more there and it’ll have to be one of the future Tex talks.
Before I started watching these Tex Talks, I never actually knew how much lore had been built up behind my stompy robot pew pew pew games.
I kind of want to see a History of Battletech book that covers all this, done up like a thick college text book (preferably one that skips the $100+ price tag and the annual minor revisions that render old versions useless).
They apparently received an “official” response from General Motors over the Blackjack video that was very tongue in cheek.
It was a good 1.5 hour lecture, and he kept having to say “we'll talk about this in another video in the future.” He does spend a bit of time on Clan Wolverine, but also states that there’s a lot more there and it’ll have to be one of the future Tex talks.
Before I started watching these Tex Talks, I never actually knew how much lore had been built up behind my stompy robot pew pew pew games.
I kind of want to see a History of Battletech book that covers all this, done up like a thick college text book (preferably one that skips the $100+ price tag and the annual minor revisions that render old versions useless).
He's got great lore videos, but I think my favorites are the terrible 80's BT art ones like:
Im not too big a fan of the technological regression myself, MW:DA struck me as an attempt to “soft-boot” the franchise to bring in new people (which I am in favor of). However IMHO it changed too much about the politics in too short a time. A lot of the same characters are still running around. On top of that the IS/Clan balance problem is still a thing. So really all it did was upend a lot of stuff old time fans liked without really doing anything to bring in new fans.
As to expanding the Battletech timeline, personally I’d be A-OK if CGL just ignores everything past the FedCom Civil War and simply come up with some other stuff.
Having read some of the timeline it gets a bit silly yeah. Victor is still active at age 100+, Devlin Stone is like 90 before he tries his King Arthur bullshit, etc.
Im not too big a fan of the technological regression myself, MW:DA struck me as an attempt to “soft-boot” the franchise to bring in new people (which I am in favor of). However IMHO it changed too much about the politics in too short a time. A lot of the same characters are still running around. On top of that the IS/Clan balance problem is still a thing. So really all it did was upend a lot of stuff old time fans liked without really doing anything to bring in new fans.
As to expanding the Battletech timeline, personally I’d be A-OK if CGL just ignores everything past the FedCom Civil War and simply come up with some other stuff.
Having read some of the timeline it gets a bit silly yeah. Victor is still active at age 100+, Devlin Stone is like 90 before he tries his King Arthur bullshit, etc.
OMG he is King Arthur! How the hell did the miss that?! It isn't even subtle about it!
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
0
H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
Im not too big a fan of the technological regression myself, MW:DA struck me as an attempt to “soft-boot” the franchise to bring in new people (which I am in favor of). However IMHO it changed too much about the politics in too short a time. A lot of the same characters are still running around. On top of that the IS/Clan balance problem is still a thing. So really all it did was upend a lot of stuff old time fans liked without really doing anything to bring in new fans.
As to expanding the Battletech timeline, personally I’d be A-OK if CGL just ignores everything past the FedCom Civil War and simply come up with some other stuff.
Having read some of the timeline it gets a bit silly yeah. Victor is still active at age 100+, Devlin Stone is like 90 before he tries his King Arthur bullshit, etc.
OMG he is King Arthur! How the hell did the miss that?! It isn't even subtle about it!
I mean, he's also probably
Arthur Steiner-Davion. Get it? Steiner-Davion, Devlin Stone, pulls a King Arthur?
I don’t think we’ll ever see that happen. The Clans just don’t have the manpower, especially given what happens to the Homeworld Clans during and after the Wars of Reaving.
+1
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
edited May 2020
By 3250 at least, the IlClan have apparently long conquered the Inner Sphere. The recent Technical Readouts have intros from the Star League Loremaster to the IlKhan of Star League. One of the things mentioned is that in retrospect it was smart to have kept the ancient and primitive Inner Sphere BattleMechs for use in televised Gladiatorial matches to help keep the masses complacent.
Also there is apparently a prohibition against the use of modern technology by the "faux warriors".
edit- It seems about seven decades after the fall of The Word of Blake the IlClan was victorious in conquering the Inner Sphere. Hm, how bout that.
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
Im not too big a fan of the technological regression myself, MW:DA struck me as an attempt to “soft-boot” the franchise to bring in new people (which I am in favor of). However IMHO it changed too much about the politics in too short a time. A lot of the same characters are still running around. On top of that the IS/Clan balance problem is still a thing. So really all it did was upend a lot of stuff old time fans liked without really doing anything to bring in new fans.
As to expanding the Battletech timeline, personally I’d be A-OK if CGL just ignores everything past the FedCom Civil War and simply come up with some other stuff.
Having read some of the timeline it gets a bit silly yeah. Victor is still active at age 100+, Devlin Stone is like 90 before he tries his King Arthur bullshit, etc.
OMG he is King Arthur! How the hell did the miss that?! It isn't even subtle about it!
I mean, he's also probably
Arthur Steiner-Davion. Get it? Steiner-Davion, Devlin Stone, pulls a King Arthur?
This tracks thematically but I think the current line is that he was co-opted by the wobblies and unaccounted for after the Jihad. They do love their dangling plot threads.
Im not too big a fan of the technological regression myself, MW:DA struck me as an attempt to “soft-boot” the franchise to bring in new people (which I am in favor of). However IMHO it changed too much about the politics in too short a time. A lot of the same characters are still running around. On top of that the IS/Clan balance problem is still a thing. So really all it did was upend a lot of stuff old time fans liked without really doing anything to bring in new fans.
As to expanding the Battletech timeline, personally I’d be A-OK if CGL just ignores everything past the FedCom Civil War and simply come up with some other stuff.
Having read some of the timeline it gets a bit silly yeah. Victor is still active at age 100+, Devlin Stone is like 90 before he tries his King Arthur bullshit, etc.
OMG he is King Arthur! How the hell did the miss that?! It isn't even subtle about it!
I mean, he's also probably
Arthur Steiner-Davion. Get it? Steiner-Davion, Devlin Stone, pulls a King Arthur?
This tracks thematically but I think the current line is that he was co-opted by the wobblies and unaccounted for after the Jihad. They do love their dangling plot threads.
Wasn't Devlin Stone originally found in a WoB prison-camp with no reliable record of his past?
Im not too big a fan of the technological regression myself, MW:DA struck me as an attempt to “soft-boot” the franchise to bring in new people (which I am in favor of). However IMHO it changed too much about the politics in too short a time. A lot of the same characters are still running around. On top of that the IS/Clan balance problem is still a thing. So really all it did was upend a lot of stuff old time fans liked without really doing anything to bring in new fans.
As to expanding the Battletech timeline, personally I’d be A-OK if CGL just ignores everything past the FedCom Civil War and simply come up with some other stuff.
Having read some of the timeline it gets a bit silly yeah. Victor is still active at age 100+, Devlin Stone is like 90 before he tries his King Arthur bullshit, etc.
OMG he is King Arthur! How the hell did the miss that?! It isn't even subtle about it!
I mean, he's also probably
Arthur Steiner-Davion. Get it? Steiner-Davion, Devlin Stone, pulls a King Arthur?
A Davion Sword hidden in the Stone, you say?
+2
NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
By 3250 at least, the IlClan have apparently long conquered the Inner Sphere. The recent Technical Readouts have intros from the Star League Loremaster to the IlKhan of Star League. One of the things mentioned is that in retrospect it was smart to have kept the ancient and primitive Inner Sphere BattleMechs for use in televised Gladiatorial matches to help keep the masses complacent.
Also there is apparently a prohibition against the use of modern technology by the "faux warriors".
edit- It seems about seven decades after the fall of The Word of Blake the IlClan was victorious in conquering the Inner Sphere. Hm, how bout that.
The next major non-Kickstarter project release is literally the ilClan book that follows Shattered Fortress. So, um, yeah, we know it's coming. Just a matter of who, how, and when.
Apparently there was a new novella release in the last couple weeks that has some juicy lead-up to the beginnings of ilClan, but I'm not much of a reader.
By 3250 at least, the IlClan have apparently long conquered the Inner Sphere. The recent Technical Readouts have intros from the Star League Loremaster to the IlKhan of Star League. One of the things mentioned is that in retrospect it was smart to have kept the ancient and primitive Inner Sphere BattleMechs for use in televised Gladiatorial matches to help keep the masses complacent.
Also there is apparently a prohibition against the use of modern technology by the "faux warriors".
edit- It seems about seven decades after the fall of The Word of Blake the IlClan was victorious in conquering the Inner Sphere. Hm, how bout that.
The next major non-Kickstarter project release is literally the ilClan book that follows Shattered Fortress. So, um, yeah, we know it's coming. Just a matter of who, how, and when.
Apparently there was a new novella release in the last couple weeks that has some juicy lead-up to the beginnings of ilClan, but I'm not much of a reader.
So you're saying you are a more look at the photos type of guy?
I'll admit, I had skipped the foreword from the TRO Succession Wars. Interesting.
I knew that an IlClan was coming, I just found it suspect that the Clans would be able to rally and conquer the Inner Sphere given the Clan win condition (take Terra) means nothing to them. I guess if they figure out how to weaponize the Fortress Walls system that'd be one way to do it.
The original plot was the death of Alexander the Great. Clan invasion was the Mongol/Hun invasions.
Alexander huh? I was thinking more Charlemagne. But I can see Alexander.
On a related note.
IIRC if you apply English line of succession rules to Star League then someone over in House Davion should be the legitimate heir to the throne of First Lord.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
The original plot was the death of Alexander the Great. Clan invasion was the Mongol/Hun invasions.
Alexander huh? I was thinking more Charlemagne. But I can see Alexander.
On a related note.
IIRC if you apply English line of succession rules to Star League then someone over in House Davion should be the legitimate heir to the throne of First Lord.
Nah, Charlemagne left a cleanly divided and portioned empire. It was the diplomacy and rulership of their own generation that made the three Frankish kingdoms happen the way it did.
That'd be a neat idea to crib from, though. Like in the wake of IlClan or whatever.
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
The new Technical Readouts stay fairly vague about the new Star League under the IlKhan. No real surprise of course. So the actual shape of things is still in the air. It could be the Great Houses still exist, but have been forced to bend the knee to the IlKhan and are now biding their time. Or it could be that they’ve been completely conquered and the Great Houses are a memory of a more barbaric age.
The latter would be pretty crazy for the setting, what with the Great Houses being a BattleTech institution. The former seems more likely to me.
Though honestly I’m intrigued by either scenario.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
I'll admit, I had skipped the foreword from the TRO Succession Wars. Interesting.
I knew that an IlClan was coming, I just found it suspect that the Clans would be able to rally and conquer the Inner Sphere given the Clan win condition (take Terra) means nothing to them. I guess if they figure out how to weaponize the Fortress Walls system that'd be one way to do it.
Formation of the Ilclan would have been a major step forward for the clans towards their goal of siezing the inner sphere; by the dark age era they'd adjusted to the realities of war in the inner sphere and so were less prone to bidding away all of their advantages against their enemies so the combined might of wolf, falcon, hells horses, nova cat and ghost bear would probably stomp the remaining greathouses into the mud (hell, jade falcon and wolf basically ripped the lyran commonwealth apart between them).
Also, wrt to the Tex talks: I'm kind of annoyed that tex cited that one stupid novella about clan wolverine since aside from it having serious contradictions with the extent canon (the watch being formed to spy on clan wolverine then the clans forgot that it existed until mid-late clan invasion when they realized they needed a counter intelligence arm so they formed a group with the exact same name?) and had elements of *raging* fanboyism (the only way any of the other clans could compete with wolverines was by collectively ganging up on them, they didn't nuke the snow raven capitol but instead a pilot from the snow ravens who just so happened to be flying around with nukes accidentally fired one into his own clan's genebank...). Otherwise though, It was pretty damn enjoyable.
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Ummm, suuuuuuuure.
(I was honestly looking to see if it had Battlefists like the Awesome. Much to my chagrin it doesn't, and instead has Stable and that.)
The 4th edition paper token looks like it has a hand though.
I appreciate that it's kinda halfway between MWO and the classic profile, but at first blush it doesn't FEEL like a speedy Heavy
Oh yeah, he does! I'd forgotten about that.
It's weird, because there's a cool image on the back of fourth edition's Setting Introduction/Quick-Start Manual that has the claw hand.
This is pretty much where my mind always goes when I think of the Dragon, hence why I tend to forget that its right arm has an elbow (lower arm actuator).
I think for Dark Age I would've done something along the lines of HPG gone and any files on computers also gone. Why? Because something something technobabble Blakists. Then start the setting 300-400 years after that event and the Inner Sphere being a rather different place as new nations have emerged from the chaos. In place of the HPG they have developed something of an HPG-lite that allows them to send what amounts to space-telegraphs. The people of this time would know of BattleMechs and how amazing they were, but would lack the know-how (quite literally) to build old designs, so they just kinda wing it. Basically designing BattleMechs from what amounts to hearsay and maybe some old photgraphs.
A Canticle for Liebowitz: Battletech Edition.
Love it!
Steam profile.
Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
All I want from a furthered timeline is intermixed technology and an evolved political situation where you've got all the Houses and Clans you know and love, all out for themselves with no one but the most diehard clans having a problem working "cross faction", e.g. Clan Ghost Bear is just another nation and sometimes it fights against its neighboring Great Houses and sometimes it allies with them to fight against another clan or house, etc.
Expand the map out to include clan space and say maybe the periphery states took advantage of rediscovered lostech and the distraction of the Great Houses during the clan invasion to expand aggressively outwards. Maybe theses nouveau riche periphery states with their expanded access to resources upset the political balance some, maybe it's a good opportunity to add new factions or flesh out the old ones.
Plenty of opportunity for actual growth amidst the properties we know and love from the 3025 era and clan invasion without hamfistedly mashing the reset button.
@Lanlaorn To be fair, the jihad didn't cause a technological regression, just a massive loss of life and political upheaval due to widespread acts of terrorism and unrestricted use of weapons of mass destruction. IMHO it wasn't a very good story arc, but for other reasons. The "Dark Age" of MW:DA is referring to a partial blackout of the HPG network that kicks off a new era of conflict by severely restricting interstellar communications in such a way that smaller, regional authorities suddenly became a lot more important once again, leading to the kind of political instability you'd expect from neofeudalism. Early on, there's a massive shortage of military hardware and the production capabilities for it because of over half a century of peace in the IS (leading to industrial and forestry mechs getting pressed into service with spare weapons attached), but the knowledge base for the tech is intact. MW:DA isn't another tech regression, but a geopolitical (astropolitical?) and military-industrial complex regression.
As to expanding the Battletech timeline, personally I’d be A-OK if CGL just ignores everything past the FedCom Civil War and simply come up with some other stuff.
It was a good 1.5 hour lecture, and he kept having to say “we'll talk about this in another video in the future.” He does spend a bit of time on Clan Wolverine, but also states that there’s a lot more there and it’ll have to be one of the future Tex talks.
Before I started watching these Tex Talks, I never actually knew how much lore had been built up behind my stompy robot pew pew pew games.
I kind of want to see a History of Battletech book that covers all this, done up like a thick college text book (preferably one that skips the $100+ price tag and the annual minor revisions that render old versions useless).
Learning Battletech TCG
Steam: betsuni7
Steam profile.
Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
He's got great lore videos, but I think my favorites are the terrible 80's BT art ones like:
Having read some of the timeline it gets a bit silly yeah. Victor is still active at age 100+, Devlin Stone is like 90 before he tries his King Arthur bullshit, etc.
OMG he is King Arthur! How the hell did the miss that?! It isn't even subtle about it!
I mean, he's also probably
Also there is apparently a prohibition against the use of modern technology by the "faux warriors".
edit- It seems about seven decades after the fall of The Word of Blake the IlClan was victorious in conquering the Inner Sphere. Hm, how bout that.
The original plot was the death of Alexander the Great. Clan invasion was the Mongol/Hun invasions.
The next major non-Kickstarter project release is literally the ilClan book that follows Shattered Fortress. So, um, yeah, we know it's coming. Just a matter of who, how, and when.
Apparently there was a new novella release in the last couple weeks that has some juicy lead-up to the beginnings of ilClan, but I'm not much of a reader.
So you're saying you are a more look at the photos type of guy?
Steam: betsuni7
I knew that an IlClan was coming, I just found it suspect that the Clans would be able to rally and conquer the Inner Sphere given the Clan win condition (take Terra) means nothing to them. I guess if they figure out how to weaponize the Fortress Walls system that'd be one way to do it.
Star League was basically the Roman Republic. Rome was the Hegemony, and the States were the Italian Allies, more or less.
Alexander huh? I was thinking more Charlemagne. But I can see Alexander.
On a related note.
IIRC if you apply English line of succession rules to Star League then someone over in House Davion should be the legitimate heir to the throne of First Lord.
Nah, Charlemagne left a cleanly divided and portioned empire. It was the diplomacy and rulership of their own generation that made the three Frankish kingdoms happen the way it did.
That'd be a neat idea to crib from, though. Like in the wake of IlClan or whatever.
The latter would be pretty crazy for the setting, what with the Great Houses being a BattleTech institution. The former seems more likely to me.
Though honestly I’m intrigued by either scenario.
Formation of the Ilclan would have been a major step forward for the clans towards their goal of siezing the inner sphere; by the dark age era they'd adjusted to the realities of war in the inner sphere and so were less prone to bidding away all of their advantages against their enemies so the combined might of wolf, falcon, hells horses, nova cat and ghost bear would probably stomp the remaining greathouses into the mud (hell, jade falcon and wolf basically ripped the lyran commonwealth apart between them).
Also, wrt to the Tex talks: I'm kind of annoyed that tex cited that one stupid novella about clan wolverine since aside from it having serious contradictions with the extent canon (the watch being formed to spy on clan wolverine then the clans forgot that it existed until mid-late clan invasion when they realized they needed a counter intelligence arm so they formed a group with the exact same name?) and had elements of *raging* fanboyism (the only way any of the other clans could compete with wolverines was by collectively ganging up on them, they didn't nuke the snow raven capitol but instead a pilot from the snow ravens who just so happened to be flying around with nukes accidentally fired one into his own clan's genebank...). Otherwise though, It was pretty damn enjoyable.