Watched it again last night. And yeah, the goof just makes it funnier, IMO.
Remains my favorite DCU movie. Some slight flaws, but overall a solid showing.
The biggest thing for me is that the seven deadly sins are just a smidge too creepy and violent for the overall tone of the movie. But yeah, pretty darn good otherwise.
Watched it again last night. And yeah, the goof just makes it funnier, IMO.
Remains my favorite DCU movie. Some slight flaws, but overall a solid showing.
The biggest thing for me is that the seven deadly sins are just a smidge too creepy and violent for the overall tone of the movie. But yeah, pretty darn good otherwise.
I don't get that complaint at all, it's right in that same sweet spot that proper 80s films were in like the Goonies. The Fratellis flat out try to murder a bunch of kids and it's blatantly a kids film. And Billy also has a POS mother who abandoned him. It's a kids film that's not afraid to shy away from those darker aspects and I appreciate it.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Yeah, the darkness in Shazaam is entirely appropriate for the material, rather than simply being grimdark. The Seven Deadly Sins are fucking monsters. They eat people for fun and want to destroy the world, they should be scary. The guy they choose for an avatar is totally okay with taking a bunch of orphans hostage. At the same time, you've got Billy struggling with some incredibly heavy shit for a kid his age, things that destroy people everyday. And the kids around him are dealing with shit no less heavy, he's just too shut into his own world to see that they don't have to be isolated from each other.
But despite these very dark, and some of them very real, issues, we get moments of genuine warmth, levity, and kids being kids. Billy's new little sister just wants to love people. His foster parents are actually committed to helping their foster kids, without them having any dark motives or shitty "look out for yourself" messages. And in the end, what saves Billy isn't being the strongest, it's his bond with his new family. That bond lets him not only cope with his own situation, it lets him reach a point of stability well beyond what his mother is at. And he knows he's better off where he's at then trying to force his way into his mother's life.
Blunting any of that would've taken some real character out of the film.
Yeah, the darkness in Shazaam is entirely appropriate for the material, rather than simply being grimdark. The Seven Deadly Sins are fucking monsters. They eat people for fun and want to destroy the world, they should be scary. The guy they choose for an avatar is totally okay with taking a bunch of orphans hostage. At the same time, you've got Billy struggling with some incredibly heavy shit for a kid his age, things that destroy people everyday. And the kids around him are dealing with shit no less heavy, he's just too shut into his own world to see that they don't have to be isolated from each other.
But despite these very dark, and some of them very real, issues, we get moments of genuine warmth, levity, and kids being kids. Billy's new little sister just wants to love people. His foster parents are actually committed to helping their foster kids, without them having any dark motives or shitty "look out for yourself" messages. And in the end, what saves Billy isn't being the strongest, it's his bond with his new family. That bond lets him not only cope with his own situation, it lets him reach a point of stability well beyond what his mother is at. And he knows he's better off where he's at then trying to force his way into his mother's life.
Blunting any of that would've taken some real character out of the film.
And I'd say that CEO office scene stood out significantly because it did defy expectations. I was watching it and the scene immediately struck me that it was going to actually portray the sins as something malevolent and capable. It's a bit like Groundhog Day, where the underlying theme is very saccharine, so they temper it by having Bill Murray commit suicide multiple times.
It’d make me pretty happy to see Henry Cavill get at least one more Superman movie if this thing took off
I'd love Cavill to get a Superman movie that was actually a Superman movie. I think he'd be excellent. I'm uninterested in seeing more of Snyder's Darkboi, as much as I love Cavill.
It’d make me pretty happy to see Henry Cavill get at least one more Superman movie if this thing took off
I'd love Cavill to get a Superman movie that was actually a Superman movie. I think he'd be excellent. I'm uninterested in seeing more of Snyder's Darkboi, as much as I love Cavill.
What did you think of the Superman in Superman Returns?
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
It’d make me pretty happy to see Henry Cavill get at least one more Superman movie if this thing took off
I'd love Cavill to get a Superman movie that was actually a Superman movie. I think he'd be excellent. I'm uninterested in seeing more of Snyder's Darkboi, as much as I love Cavill.
Funny, that's exactly how I feel about Ben Affleck Batman.
It’d make me pretty happy to see Henry Cavill get at least one more Superman movie if this thing took off
I'd love Cavill to get a Superman movie that was actually a Superman movie. I think he'd be excellent. I'm uninterested in seeing more of Snyder's Darkboi, as much as I love Cavill.
What did you think of the Superman in Superman Returns?
That was Routh, right? It's been a while, but I remember thinking he was fine. He wasn't a problem I had with the movie, anyway. Why do they keep giving Lex Luthor real estate schemes?
It’d make me pretty happy to see Henry Cavill get at least one more Superman movie if this thing took off
I'd love Cavill to get a Superman movie that was actually a Superman movie. I think he'd be excellent. I'm uninterested in seeing more of Snyder's Darkboi, as much as I love Cavill.
Funny, that's exactly how I feel about Ben Affleck Batman.
Same! One thing I'll say for Snyder is that his movies are typically really well cast. I don't think I like any of his films, but they all have inspired casting.
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
My problem with the Seven Deadly Sins was that they're named pride, avarice, envy, wrath, lust, gluttony, and sloth; but their actual behavior was mostly just ripping people apart, so they felt kind of generic.
Another Cavil superman movie wouldn't be bad. On the subject of things that will likely never happen I'd like to see the DC TV cast pop into the movies just because their characters are so much more enjoyable to watch than what's in the movies. I'm mostly talking about Ezra Miller here.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
It’d make me pretty happy to see Henry Cavill get at least one more Superman movie if this thing took off
I'd love Cavill to get a Superman movie that was actually a Superman movie. I think he'd be excellent. I'm uninterested in seeing more of Snyder's Darkboi, as much as I love Cavill.
What did you think of the Superman in Superman Returns?
it’s a pretty awful film, honestly, and Routh is given very little to do besides mope
My problem with the Seven Deadly Sins was that they're named pride, avarice, envy, wrath, lust, gluttony, and sloth; but their actual behavior was mostly just ripping people apart, so they felt kind of generic.
Another Cavil superman movie wouldn't be bad. On the subject of things that will likely never happen I'd like to see the DC TV cast pop into the movies just because their characters are so much more enjoyable to watch than what's in the movies. I'm mostly talking about Ezra Miller here.
I'd agree that we don't really get into the "Sin" part of them. I don't know if that bad guy always operates with the 7 Sins as his power source but it was probably not the right movie for it only because you have Billy, Shazam, his foster bro, the rest of the foster kids, the main villain, Shazam the wizard, the foster parents, and the ongoing search for his mum. Not much space left, though I think you could have maybe gotten a quick 60 second scene in there to get the point across without harming anything. But then they would have had to work it into the finale and have the Sins operating on the kids and them overcoming them so it all becomes much bigger.
Having seven individual bad guys and making them distinctive is tricky - I had to read the trivia entries online to identify which monster was which
It's almost an issue with the style - if they were more cartoony, possibly colour-coded, then they would be more distinct but at a cost of being less "realistic"
[Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
I don't know much about Shazam's closet of villains, so maybe there was a simpler big bad they could have gone with for the origin movie; but the way they set it up so that both Billy and the bad guy were tied together was pretty neat, so I can't complain.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I don't know much about Shazam's closet of villains, so maybe there was a simpler big bad they could have gone with for the origin movie; but the way they set it up so that both Billy and the bad guy were tied together was pretty neat, so I can't complain.
Like basically every superhero outside of Batman & Superman, Shazam’s big bad is an evil version of Shazam, Black Adam.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
I don't know much about Shazam's closet of villains, so maybe there was a simpler big bad they could have gone with for the origin movie; but the way they set it up so that both Billy and the bad guy were tied together was pretty neat, so I can't complain.
Like basically every superhero outside of Batman & Superman, Shazam’s big bad is an evil version of Shazam, Black Adam.
Well, there's also an evil caterpillar.
And, of course, your classic Mad Scientist (who was actually in the film)
I don't know much about Shazam's closet of villains, so maybe there was a simpler big bad they could have gone with for the origin movie; but the way they set it up so that both Billy and the bad guy were tied together was pretty neat, so I can't complain.
Like basically every superhero outside of Batman & Superman, Shazam’s big bad is an evil version of Shazam, Black Adam.
It’d make me pretty happy to see Henry Cavill get at least one more Superman movie if this thing took off
I'd love Cavill to get a Superman movie that was actually a Superman movie. I think he'd be excellent. I'm uninterested in seeing more of Snyder's Darkboi, as much as I love Cavill.
What did you think of the Superman in Superman Returns?
it’s a pretty awful film, honestly, and Routh is given very little to do besides mope
He wasn't given much to do, but I thought he made a believable Superman/Clark, where you could buy that someone could have seen the two of them and not put it together. Like Cavill, he could have been great if he was given the right material.
The bit with Cyclops just asking Lois how tall Clark is like he's wondering about it, and Clark just does a slouching bite of a taco to put them off was pretty good.
I also liked the whole plane/shuttle rescue scene, mostly because it actually dealt with how he'd have to get a plane down safely without shattering it. Grab a wing, the wing tears off, etc. I like the things that show that just because these heroes can give a middle finger to physics, the thing they're holding can't.
And for Shazam, the Sins weren't especially well-defined, but there was just enough that him correctly identifying them and knowing to push Envy's buttons didn't feel like a total ass-pull.
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Eh, that plane scene does nothing whatsoever for me. The wing tears off the plane, but for some dumbass reason they're launching a shuttle off the back of a plane? And the mounts are somehow strong enough to drag the plane along with the shuttle firing at full throttle? And they put fucking PEOPLE in the jet during this test? And then Superman stops the plane by pushing on the nose section, which in a passenger jet is just a hollow cone that protects the radar array?
The whole movie was stupid, though. It's a direct sequel that skips something like 20 years of technology and two other Superman movies (albeit very bad ones), yet somehow every character is younger than their counterparts from the original couple of films. It also sets up Superman as a major creep who mind-wipes women after he gets them pregnant, then disappears for years. And despite being a direct sequel with the "same" Lex Luthor, his big evil plan is basically the same plan as the first movie, except this time infused with kryptonite.
And for Shazam, the Sins weren't especially well-defined, but there was just enough that him correctly identifying them and knowing to push Envy's buttons didn't feel like a total ass-pull.
The sins would've looked so much better with just a little palette work instead of making them "evil grey". Their physical designs were quite good and distinctive, but that always got lost as background noise when all 7 are out. And since they all come out at the same time, they always end up obscuring each other. It was made even worse by the fact that they were commonly thrown against dark backgrounds like cavern walls or a darkly-painted boardroom.
But at least Shazam was finally a decent enough DCEU film that the "big" issues are things like the bad guy visual design having room for improvement rather than things like, say, spending 2 hours wondering why you paid money to watch a train wreck of dull.
Eh, that plane scene does nothing whatsoever for me. The wing tears off the plane, but for some dumbass reason they're launching a shuttle off the back of a plane? And the mounts are somehow strong enough to drag the plane along with the shuttle firing at full throttle? And they put fucking PEOPLE in the jet during this test? And then Superman stops the plane by pushing on the nose section, which in a passenger jet is just a hollow cone that protects the radar array?
The whole movie was stupid, though. It's a direct sequel that skips something like 20 years of technology and two other Superman movies (albeit very bad ones), yet somehow every character is younger than their counterparts from the original couple of films. It also sets up Superman as a major creep who mind-wipes women after he gets them pregnant, then disappears for years. And despite being a direct sequel with the "same" Lex Luthor, his big evil plan is basically the same plan as the first movie, except this time infused with kryptonite.
The setup was basically a plausible way to have a plane disaster happen with enough warning for people to know about it before it leaves a crater. Yes, Superman could have heard it from half a world away, but that doesn't get the world watching to see him Return.
As for catching it by the nose, where else should he have caught it? The significant thing is that the plane crumples, he's just catching it slowly enough that it can crumple until he can hold it by something steady without the plane tearing itself apart. Most of the time Superman/girl takes hold of something and it suddenly proves to be as immune to g-forces as they are.
Mind-wipe creep Superman was setup by 2, so you can blame it on that. And it's almost refreshing to see a villain decide to try the thing that didn't work last time, having found a way to make sure they don't fail like the last attempt. There's a Simpsons episode where Lisa just tries one of their things a second time; "I don't understand why we only ever try things once".
Last attempt didn't work because of Superman, so let's do this one with kryptonite! Do your power grab and get revenge on the alien all at once.
It's still not a great movie, but it did have a few moments.
Doesn't Returns end with Superman lifting a continent made of kryptonite? He's so hard to enjoy when he can't even follow his own damn rules in his movies.
Doesn't Returns end with Superman lifting a continent made of kryptonite? He's so hard to enjoy when he can't even follow his own damn rules in his movies.
Right, which is maybe the third or fourth actually super thing he does in the movie if I'm remembering right.
The interesting part of Returns was that it was implied to be a continuation of the old Donner films. But yeah, Bryan Singer seemingly just got lucky with the first two X-Men and didn't really understand the Superman character. There's some fun moments but yea, not a movie that aged well. I used to really enjoy Spacey as Luthor before... All that stuff happened. It's a cursed movie.
Idk I bet Matthew Vaughn could do a good Superman movie
Doesn't Returns end with Superman lifting a continent made of kryptonite? He's so hard to enjoy when he can't even follow his own damn rules in his movies.
Yes, but it damn near kills him. He falls from Heaven space and lands in a cruciform position.
And then he gets better, I mean, rises again.
(Returns leans hard into the Jesus imagery/subtext of the Donner films.)
Then he checks out Chris' DNA with his assorted visions and confirms that, yeah, the kid's his. And we get a reprise of that Brando monologue about father and son. He makes up with Lois, and flies off.
And then we get a reprise of the final shot of the first movie, though he doesn't quite grin at the camera.
And then it ends.
Doesn't Returns end with Superman lifting a continent made of kryptonite? He's so hard to enjoy when he can't even follow his own damn rules in his movies.
Yes, but it damn near kills him. He falls from Heaven space and lands in a cruciform position.
And then he gets better, I mean, rises again.
(Returns leans hard into the Jesus imagery/subtext of the Donner films.)
Then he checks out Chris' DNA with his assorted visions and confirms that, yeah, the kid's his. And we get a reprise of that Brando monologue about father and son. He makes up with Lois, and flies off.
And then we get a reprise of the final shot of the first movie, though he doesn't quite grin at the camera.
And then it ends.
Wow, that sounds godawful terrible.
I haven't seen it since it's release.
I am now terrified, but oddly curious, to see it again.
Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
edited May 2020
Both Man of Steel and Superman Returns gets different aspects about Superman wrong on a fundamental level.
Man of Steel wanted to make Clark a mopey and unhappy figure. Someone who was burdened by the idea of helping people and found very little joy in saving people. The first time he flew was the only time I can think in the movie where he seemed happy to be super. Then the fight with Zod and the other Kryptonians was fun, but ultimately had Superman caring very little for collateral damage. And worse, he was the direct cause of a big chunk of said damage. Then he made out with Lois on the rubble of what was once part of the city and what has to be many dead bodies. Also the death of Jonathan Kent was so dumb....so so dumb. Also Jonathan would rather let kids die than his son get outed...no wonder Clark turned out the way he did. His parents were kind of awful people in this universe.
With that said, I still enjoyed Man of Steel. Cavill is an awesome Superman stuck in a sad sack dour universe. Like Amy Adams as Lois, and I love the idea that she is a good enough reporter that she was able to track down Clark. I actually like the idea of Lois helping him become Superman, something that Man of Steel shares with Smallville. The action was fun and I loved Michael Shannon as Zod. He was different than Terrance Stamp and it was great.
Batman Ft. Superman on the other hand, had some great action sequences but required most of the characters to be absolutely stupid in order for the entire plot to work. The entire beef between Superman and Batman could have been fixed with one conversation. Honestly, the DCEU would work much better if they were telling the origin to Ultraman.
Superman Returns...oh boy...where do I begin: Superman knocked up Lois Lane, memory wipe kissed her, and then took off without telling her apparently. When he gets back he stalks her, spies on her family, and actively tries to be a homewrecker. Lex Luthor is involved in another land scheme, which...why? Then to top it off, Superman lifts a continent of Kryptonite to space and doesn't keel over and die the instant he touches it. This is after he gets his butt handed to him by an old man due to the same Kryptonite. Kryptonite isn't an inconvenience to Superman...it causes his blood to boil...it's poison...it kills him. It isn't something that can be overcome by pure willpower by Superman. That almost killed the movie for me by itself. Also Superman Returns had the worst Lois Lane in all media.
With that said however, at least he spent time saving people. It had some great lines in it. The plane rescue scene I thought was great. Routh was a great Superman stuck in a bad movie and terrible script. I actually liked Parker Posey as NotMs.Tessmacher.
Honestly, trying to make Superman Returns a 'sequel' to the Donner movies was a terrible first idea that ultimately sank the rest of the project.
That is this diehard Superman fan's take on both movies.
Edit: Also, Routh was given a second chance to play Superman in Crisis on Infinite Earths and he was awesome. Case in point:
Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
"Because Lois, even in the darkest times, hope cuts through. Hope is the light that lifts us out of darkness." - This line that Superman uses in that Crisis clip that I posted. Giving a motivational speech like this wouldn't work for Snyder's Superman because nothing he does inspires hope.
Funny enough Man of Steel gave us some small nuggets that felt like Superman, for example:
Kryptonite has always bounced all over the scale as to how deadly and effective it is, in pretty much every medium he's been in. Sometimes he collapses and can't move if there's a tiny sliver of green rock within a hundred feet, other times he doesn't notice anything wrong until someone slugs him in the face and it hurts.
Sometimes he can overcome it to the point that he can grab the rock and throw it away so he can recover, others he just starts suffocating. Kryptonite has always been exactly as deadly as the plot requires, same as the limits of his strength and speed.
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
Kryptonite has always bounced all over the scale as to how deadly and effective it is, in pretty much every medium he's been in. Sometimes he collapses and can't move if there's a tiny sliver of green rock within a hundred feet, other times he doesn't notice anything wrong until someone slugs him in the face and it hurts.
Sometimes he can overcome it to the point that he can grab the rock and throw it away so he can recover, others he just starts suffocating. Kryptonite has always been exactly as deadly as the plot requires, same as the limits of his strength and speed.
Tis true, some writers completely goof the idea of Kryptonite and I make allowances for that.
Him carrying a continents worth all the way to space and surviving it broke my tolerance for allowing it. :P
Kryptonite has always bounced all over the scale as to how deadly and effective it is, in pretty much every medium he's been in. Sometimes he collapses and can't move if there's a tiny sliver of green rock within a hundred feet, other times he doesn't notice anything wrong until someone slugs him in the face and it hurts.
Sometimes he can overcome it to the point that he can grab the rock and throw it away so he can recover, others he just starts suffocating. Kryptonite has always been exactly as deadly as the plot requires, same as the limits of his strength and speed.
Tis true, some writers completely goof the idea of Kryptonite and I make allowances for that.
Him carrying a continents worth all the way to space and surviving it broke my tolerance for allowing it. :P
Again, the explanations can go all over the place, but you can say it's very weak stuff, due to a handful of it being expanded to continent size, along with granite and lead (useful in the circumstances) and limestone and whatever else the magic crystal found on the way. I mean, the entire thing isn't green, so it's obviously not 100% pure.
Saying that some writers goof the idea suggests that there is one 'official' stance on kryptonite; exact effects, lethality, mass, etc. Good luck finding it. It's the same as everything else about comic characters, there's just a general consensus of what 'normal' Superman or Batman is like, then everything that differs from that is treated as wrong.
Kryptonite is honestly terrible as a tool for curbing superman since for an ultra rare spacerock, it seems to be more common on earth then carbon in s lot of it's portrayals.
Kryptonite is honestly terrible as a tool for curbing superman since for an ultra rare spacerock, it seems to be more common on earth then carbon in s lot of it's portrayals.
It's such an iconic part of the character it's hard to get away from. Plus you get fun stuff like the alt colored kryptonites and their effects, I like it. It is hard to write well is better served for goofy side story stuff than movies.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Kryptonite has always bounced all over the scale as to how deadly and effective it is, in pretty much every medium he's been in. Sometimes he collapses and can't move if there's a tiny sliver of green rock within a hundred feet, other times he doesn't notice anything wrong until someone slugs him in the face and it hurts.
Sometimes he can overcome it to the point that he can grab the rock and throw it away so he can recover, others he just starts suffocating. Kryptonite has always been exactly as deadly as the plot requires, same as the limits of his strength and speed.
The Definitive Power Ranking of Kryptonite:
5. The necklace that Lana Lang wears in that CW series
4. The kryptonite inside Metallo's chest
3. Giant asteroid of kryptonite
2. The kryptonite that a Green Lantern can create
1. Any kryptonite that Batman is holding because Batman
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
Kryptonite is honestly terrible as a tool for curbing superman since for an ultra rare spacerock, it seems to be more common on earth then carbon in s lot of it's portrayals.
I actually enjoy the use of Kryptonite when it isn't used as a crutch, which many writers do. But there have been some great uses of the rock, including as @Local H Jay said, the various colored Kryptonite which can be really fun.
Kryptonite has always bounced all over the scale as to how deadly and effective it is, in pretty much every medium he's been in. Sometimes he collapses and can't move if there's a tiny sliver of green rock within a hundred feet, other times he doesn't notice anything wrong until someone slugs him in the face and it hurts.
Sometimes he can overcome it to the point that he can grab the rock and throw it away so he can recover, others he just starts suffocating. Kryptonite has always been exactly as deadly as the plot requires, same as the limits of his strength and speed.
Tis true, some writers completely goof the idea of Kryptonite and I make allowances for that.
Him carrying a continents worth all the way to space and surviving it broke my tolerance for allowing it. :P
Again, the explanations can go all over the place, but you can say it's very weak stuff, due to a handful of it being expanded to continent size, along with granite and lead (useful in the circumstances) and limestone and whatever else the magic crystal found on the way. I mean, the entire thing isn't green, so it's obviously not 100% pure.
Saying that some writers goof the idea suggests that there is one 'official' stance on kryptonite; exact effects, lethality, mass, etc. Good luck finding it. It's the same as everything else about comic characters, there's just a general consensus of what 'normal' Superman or Batman is like, then everything that differs from that is treated as wrong.
I know where you are coming from and agree to some degree. If that explanation of the continent works for you, then I'm glad. It doesn't me since he couldn't defend himself against an old man while standing on the island due to it weakening him moments before, yet he can carry it all the way to space. I couldn't buy it.
While the effects of Kryptonite will never be consistent, the idea that it is poison/deadly to him is something that can be adhered to even with some wiggle room. Bad writing causes major inconsistencies like what SR pulled.
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Tho the goof works better without it, IMO
Watched it again last night. And yeah, the goof just makes it funnier, IMO.
Remains my favorite DCU movie. Some slight flaws, but overall a solid showing.
The biggest thing for me is that the seven deadly sins are just a smidge too creepy and violent for the overall tone of the movie. But yeah, pretty darn good otherwise.
I don't get that complaint at all, it's right in that same sweet spot that proper 80s films were in like the Goonies. The Fratellis flat out try to murder a bunch of kids and it's blatantly a kids film. And Billy also has a POS mother who abandoned him. It's a kids film that's not afraid to shy away from those darker aspects and I appreciate it.
But despite these very dark, and some of them very real, issues, we get moments of genuine warmth, levity, and kids being kids. Billy's new little sister just wants to love people. His foster parents are actually committed to helping their foster kids, without them having any dark motives or shitty "look out for yourself" messages. And in the end, what saves Billy isn't being the strongest, it's his bond with his new family. That bond lets him not only cope with his own situation, it lets him reach a point of stability well beyond what his mother is at. And he knows he's better off where he's at then trying to force his way into his mother's life.
Blunting any of that would've taken some real character out of the film.
And I'd say that CEO office scene stood out significantly because it did defy expectations. I was watching it and the scene immediately struck me that it was going to actually portray the sins as something malevolent and capable. It's a bit like Groundhog Day, where the underlying theme is very saccharine, so they temper it by having Bill Murray commit suicide multiple times.
I'd love Cavill to get a Superman movie that was actually a Superman movie. I think he'd be excellent. I'm uninterested in seeing more of Snyder's Darkboi, as much as I love Cavill.
What did you think of the Superman in Superman Returns?
Funny, that's exactly how I feel about Ben Affleck Batman.
That was Routh, right? It's been a while, but I remember thinking he was fine. He wasn't a problem I had with the movie, anyway. Why do they keep giving Lex Luthor real estate schemes?
Same! One thing I'll say for Snyder is that his movies are typically really well cast. I don't think I like any of his films, but they all have inspired casting.
Another Cavil superman movie wouldn't be bad. On the subject of things that will likely never happen I'd like to see the DC TV cast pop into the movies just because their characters are so much more enjoyable to watch than what's in the movies. I'm mostly talking about Ezra Miller here.
it’s a pretty awful film, honestly, and Routh is given very little to do besides mope
I'd agree that we don't really get into the "Sin" part of them. I don't know if that bad guy always operates with the 7 Sins as his power source but it was probably not the right movie for it only because you have Billy, Shazam, his foster bro, the rest of the foster kids, the main villain, Shazam the wizard, the foster parents, and the ongoing search for his mum. Not much space left, though I think you could have maybe gotten a quick 60 second scene in there to get the point across without harming anything. But then they would have had to work it into the finale and have the Sins operating on the kids and them overcoming them so it all becomes much bigger.
It's almost an issue with the style - if they were more cartoony, possibly colour-coded, then they would be more distinct but at a cost of being less "realistic"
Like basically every superhero outside of Batman & Superman, Shazam’s big bad is an evil version of Shazam, Black Adam.
Well, there's also an evil caterpillar.
And, of course, your classic Mad Scientist (who was actually in the film)
Black Adam isn't evil, he's violently pragmatic.
He wasn't given much to do, but I thought he made a believable Superman/Clark, where you could buy that someone could have seen the two of them and not put it together. Like Cavill, he could have been great if he was given the right material.
The bit with Cyclops just asking Lois how tall Clark is like he's wondering about it, and Clark just does a slouching bite of a taco to put them off was pretty good.
I also liked the whole plane/shuttle rescue scene, mostly because it actually dealt with how he'd have to get a plane down safely without shattering it. Grab a wing, the wing tears off, etc. I like the things that show that just because these heroes can give a middle finger to physics, the thing they're holding can't.
And for Shazam, the Sins weren't especially well-defined, but there was just enough that him correctly identifying them and knowing to push Envy's buttons didn't feel like a total ass-pull.
The whole movie was stupid, though. It's a direct sequel that skips something like 20 years of technology and two other Superman movies (albeit very bad ones), yet somehow every character is younger than their counterparts from the original couple of films. It also sets up Superman as a major creep who mind-wipes women after he gets them pregnant, then disappears for years. And despite being a direct sequel with the "same" Lex Luthor, his big evil plan is basically the same plan as the first movie, except this time infused with kryptonite.
The sins would've looked so much better with just a little palette work instead of making them "evil grey". Their physical designs were quite good and distinctive, but that always got lost as background noise when all 7 are out. And since they all come out at the same time, they always end up obscuring each other. It was made even worse by the fact that they were commonly thrown against dark backgrounds like cavern walls or a darkly-painted boardroom.
But at least Shazam was finally a decent enough DCEU film that the "big" issues are things like the bad guy visual design having room for improvement rather than things like, say, spending 2 hours wondering why you paid money to watch a train wreck of dull.
The setup was basically a plausible way to have a plane disaster happen with enough warning for people to know about it before it leaves a crater. Yes, Superman could have heard it from half a world away, but that doesn't get the world watching to see him Return.
As for catching it by the nose, where else should he have caught it? The significant thing is that the plane crumples, he's just catching it slowly enough that it can crumple until he can hold it by something steady without the plane tearing itself apart. Most of the time Superman/girl takes hold of something and it suddenly proves to be as immune to g-forces as they are.
Mind-wipe creep Superman was setup by 2, so you can blame it on that. And it's almost refreshing to see a villain decide to try the thing that didn't work last time, having found a way to make sure they don't fail like the last attempt. There's a Simpsons episode where Lisa just tries one of their things a second time; "I don't understand why we only ever try things once".
Last attempt didn't work because of Superman, so let's do this one with kryptonite! Do your power grab and get revenge on the alien all at once.
It's still not a great movie, but it did have a few moments.
Right, which is maybe the third or fourth actually super thing he does in the movie if I'm remembering right.
Gawd, that flick sucked.
Idk I bet Matthew Vaughn could do a good Superman movie
Yes, but it damn near kills him. He falls from Heaven space and lands in a cruciform position.
And then he gets better, I mean, rises again.
(Returns leans hard into the Jesus imagery/subtext of the Donner films.)
Then he checks out Chris' DNA with his assorted visions and confirms that, yeah, the kid's his. And we get a reprise of that Brando monologue about father and son. He makes up with Lois, and flies off.
And then we get a reprise of the final shot of the first movie, though he doesn't quite grin at the camera.
And then it ends.
Wow, that sounds godawful terrible.
I haven't seen it since it's release.
I am now terrified, but oddly curious, to see it again.
Spoilers for SHAZAM!'s post credit stinger:
Man of Steel wanted to make Clark a mopey and unhappy figure. Someone who was burdened by the idea of helping people and found very little joy in saving people. The first time he flew was the only time I can think in the movie where he seemed happy to be super. Then the fight with Zod and the other Kryptonians was fun, but ultimately had Superman caring very little for collateral damage. And worse, he was the direct cause of a big chunk of said damage. Then he made out with Lois on the rubble of what was once part of the city and what has to be many dead bodies. Also the death of Jonathan Kent was so dumb....so so dumb. Also Jonathan would rather let kids die than his son get outed...no wonder Clark turned out the way he did. His parents were kind of awful people in this universe.
With that said, I still enjoyed Man of Steel. Cavill is an awesome Superman stuck in a sad sack dour universe. Like Amy Adams as Lois, and I love the idea that she is a good enough reporter that she was able to track down Clark. I actually like the idea of Lois helping him become Superman, something that Man of Steel shares with Smallville. The action was fun and I loved Michael Shannon as Zod. He was different than Terrance Stamp and it was great.
Batman Ft. Superman on the other hand, had some great action sequences but required most of the characters to be absolutely stupid in order for the entire plot to work. The entire beef between Superman and Batman could have been fixed with one conversation. Honestly, the DCEU would work much better if they were telling the origin to Ultraman.
Superman Returns...oh boy...where do I begin: Superman knocked up Lois Lane, memory wipe kissed her, and then took off without telling her apparently. When he gets back he stalks her, spies on her family, and actively tries to be a homewrecker. Lex Luthor is involved in another land scheme, which...why? Then to top it off, Superman lifts a continent of Kryptonite to space and doesn't keel over and die the instant he touches it. This is after he gets his butt handed to him by an old man due to the same Kryptonite. Kryptonite isn't an inconvenience to Superman...it causes his blood to boil...it's poison...it kills him. It isn't something that can be overcome by pure willpower by Superman. That almost killed the movie for me by itself. Also Superman Returns had the worst Lois Lane in all media.
With that said however, at least he spent time saving people. It had some great lines in it. The plane rescue scene I thought was great. Routh was a great Superman stuck in a bad movie and terrible script. I actually liked Parker Posey as NotMs.Tessmacher.
Honestly, trying to make Superman Returns a 'sequel' to the Donner movies was a terrible first idea that ultimately sank the rest of the project.
That is this diehard Superman fan's take on both movies.
Edit: Also, Routh was given a second chance to play Superman in Crisis on Infinite Earths and he was awesome. Case in point:
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Funny enough Man of Steel gave us some small nuggets that felt like Superman, for example:
The problem is, his personality in this scene and in some others, is contradictory to how he is through most of the rest of the movie.
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Sometimes he can overcome it to the point that he can grab the rock and throw it away so he can recover, others he just starts suffocating. Kryptonite has always been exactly as deadly as the plot requires, same as the limits of his strength and speed.
Tis true, some writers completely goof the idea of Kryptonite and I make allowances for that.
Him carrying a continents worth all the way to space and surviving it broke my tolerance for allowing it. :P
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Again, the explanations can go all over the place, but you can say it's very weak stuff, due to a handful of it being expanded to continent size, along with granite and lead (useful in the circumstances) and limestone and whatever else the magic crystal found on the way. I mean, the entire thing isn't green, so it's obviously not 100% pure.
Saying that some writers goof the idea suggests that there is one 'official' stance on kryptonite; exact effects, lethality, mass, etc. Good luck finding it. It's the same as everything else about comic characters, there's just a general consensus of what 'normal' Superman or Batman is like, then everything that differs from that is treated as wrong.
It's such an iconic part of the character it's hard to get away from. Plus you get fun stuff like the alt colored kryptonites and their effects, I like it. It is hard to write well is better served for goofy side story stuff than movies.
The Definitive Power Ranking of Kryptonite:
5. The necklace that Lana Lang wears in that CW series
4. The kryptonite inside Metallo's chest
3. Giant asteroid of kryptonite
2. The kryptonite that a Green Lantern can create
1. Any kryptonite that Batman is holding because Batman
I actually enjoy the use of Kryptonite when it isn't used as a crutch, which many writers do. But there have been some great uses of the rock, including as @Local H Jay said, the various colored Kryptonite which can be really fun.
I know where you are coming from and agree to some degree. If that explanation of the continent works for you, then I'm glad. It doesn't me since he couldn't defend himself against an old man while standing on the island due to it weakening him moments before, yet he can carry it all the way to space. I couldn't buy it.
While the effects of Kryptonite will never be consistent, the idea that it is poison/deadly to him is something that can be adhered to even with some wiggle room. Bad writing causes major inconsistencies like what SR pulled.
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