[Hiberno-Britannic Politics] Cumgate

BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising OddsRegistered User, Moderator mod
edited May 25 in Debate and/or Discourse
It's all going swimmingly, isn't it?

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    No need to swim, because Hy-Brasil is definitely not sinking.

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  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
  • SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular


    James is a presenter for radio station LBC.

    That'll probably explain how the government suddenly hit their testing targets.

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  • evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    Sooo I might have missed it but did Boris respond to his misleading of the house from sunday in the house?
    I saw the "don't criticise the government and by government I mean me" letter but nothing beyond that..

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  • H3KnucklesH3Knuckles Jack of all interests... ...master of noneRegistered User regular

    Reminds me of the thing someone linked late last thread about the Dutch government advising people to have someone to shack up with.

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  • NorgothNorgoth cardiffRegistered User regular
    Just to respond to Bogarts last post in the old thread, but in my experience, anyone who bangs on about "common sense" actually just means "why don't you think like me?"

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  • KarlKarl Registered User regular
    Watching the Boris faithful defend him for the NHS surcharge, then praise him for revoking it is the craziest thing I've seen in awhile.

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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Common sense isn't

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  • JazzJazz Fuck cancer. Un-UKRegistered User regular
    Norgoth wrote: »
    Just to respond to Bogarts last post in the old thread, but in my experience, anyone who bangs on about "common sense" actually just means "why don't you think like me?"

    The Independent had a good article about that a few days ago.

    https://www.indy100.com/article/boris-johnson-common-sense-lockdown-coronavirus-brexit-austerity-9518091

  • Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    This assumes it's a binary question. It's not "food" vs "not food" and it's just that people don't want to pay more because they can't afford it. Food is substitutable and highly price sensitive. If you push the price of your product up, people will move to other products. Especially in the lower income groups. This creates an enormous incentive to keep costs down, which is then reflected in the structure of the production chain.

    It's not a binary question the other way either, people do still buy higher priced food products, from buying brand names in place of store brands, to buying fresh foods over canned or frozen, to buying 'organic' or otherwise premium foods. The market can handle a range of food prices despite how substitutable it is. All corporations have an incentive to maximize profits and minimize costs, and do so regardless of the previously mentioned factors.

    But people resist increases in prices partly on principle (nobody likes spending more money than they need to) but also because many people are acutely aware of the limitations of their budgets, but people are less sensitive to those increases, and so are less likely to protest against them when they occur when they make more money, and have a more comfortable buffer, and are less likely to be impacted in an immediate and negative way by it. Yes, food is a price sensitive and substitutable product, but people with more money are often more willing to buy more expensive food. You CAN substitute canned tomatoes for fresh ones, but for people able to afford not to, they often do. If more people could afford fresh tomatoes, they would buy them. If everyone was better off, if wealth were distributed more equitably, society would better be able to afford to push for improvements in the industry chain that might lead to increased prices, like better pay and conditions for workers, better conditions and treatment for animals, better and more thorough food safety standards, etc.

    Companies will usually not make these kinds of changes themselves, and will only do so if it is profitable in some regard (such as selling higher priced organic foods) and as such, cannot be relied upon to make such changes, realistically the government has to step in and enact regulations to make those changes, but people will not support those changes if they result in higher food prices particularly if they are already having a hard time affording food as it is.

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Common sense isn't

    Especially during a Pandemic.

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  • Bad-BeatBad-Beat Registered User regular
    People heard that Johnson considers himself the modern Winston Churchill so the everyone has decided to go fight COVID-19 on the beaches.

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  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    https://www.itv.com/news/2020-05-22/more-than-half-of-parents-won-t-send-their-children-back-to-school-exclusive-itv-news-poll-reveals/

    Obviously paying attention to this, being married to a teacher and having a couple of other teachers in the family

    I'm really interested in what is actually going to happen with the schools

    I think there is a strong chance that, whatever the government says, they simply ... won't reopen

    At the moment it looks like a combination of the teaching unions encouraging teachers not to return to work, local authorities being unwilling to coerce them to do so (and some, like Liverpool City Council staying outright that their schools shouldn't reopen), and parents being equivocal on actually sending their kids back

    I think we're heading towards a situation where the government's general lack of credibility starts to mean people just don't do what they say anymore, andI don't think that this government is particularly well equipped to deal with that. It would be kind of fitting if the thing that toppled it was everybody just deciding that they weren't worth listening to.

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  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    It's almost impressive how the government has manged to entirely lose the illusion of control. It's arguably one of the most important crisis jobs of a government, to make it at least appear as though there's somebody in control and that there is an overall strategy. It involves clear communication and guidelines in order to prevent panic in the first instance and prevent confusion later on - so naturally they were off to a slow start when they let panic buying take a grip.

    They had some assistance with the 'rally around the flag' effect and a fairly definitive (if belated) lockdown. Ever since Johnson's speech though it has been a compelte mess. Nobody knows what the actual guidance is anymore - and this is largely because he rushed into lifting the lockdown without consulting anyone. Ignoring the usless and confusing slogans, we immediately had divergence between all of the devolved regions and westminister because they weren't consulted in advance. They rejected the changes, but you now have two conflicting sets of guidelines. Which do people follow? Likely whichever they heard first or whichever is closest to what they want to hear. Added complication in that the westminister message tends to drown out others. Likewise with the school reopening. They set a deadline and everything - except this time they didn't consult the local authourities or the teachers before announcing it, they were just told to do it. Naturally, they had differing opinions.

    The only real conclusion is, once again, that this lot are too incompetent to govern anything.

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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    The government's been nicely hedging their statements about reopening schools, just saying they may re-open by 1 June. Maybe. If they decide to, and they meet all these impossible requirements like maintaining social distancing, which classrooms are obviously built for.
    The great thing is that when they decide to stay closed because there's no fucking way they can open safely, the buck has been passed to the schools. Buck-passing is one think that Boris knows how to do well (at least when it comes to him not being the one holding the ball when it goes bad). That he's still trying it as PM is impressive in a horrible way.

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  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    The thing about buck passing is that it only works if you look more like the voice of reason than those you're passing it to

    And I don't think this government does

    There's as much chance that it makes them look incompetent by giving directions that were so obviously stupid that no reasonable person would have complied with them

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  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    So, Dominic Cummings, eh?

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  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    Watch them claim he did nothing wrong.

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  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited May 22
    Bogart wrote: »
    Watch them claim he did nothing wrong.



    Note ratio

    Edit: if nothing else, this whole incident appears to be as good a confirmation that you're ever likely to get that Peston and Kuenssberg's "no 10 source" is, in fact, Cummings himself

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  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    Oh I’m sure it’ll outrage lots of people, as it should, but probably just shrugging and saying nuh huh is a bullet proof tactic.

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  • Bad-BeatBad-Beat Registered User regular
    If Dominic Cummings resigns over this (he won't) or be forced out by Boris (he won't) I would be genuinely surprised.

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  • JazzJazz Fuck cancer. Un-UKRegistered User regular
    Robert Jenrick already managed to get it to not stick, no reason Cummings won't too.

    Of course, if you're a scientist instead, or a Scot, then no it's unacceptable. English and Tory? Go for it.

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  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    japan wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    Watch them claim he did nothing wrong.



    Note ratio

    Edit: if nothing else, this whole incident appears to be as good a confirmation that you're ever likely to get that Peston and Kuenssberg's "no 10 source" is, in fact, Cummings himself

    I've seen other journalists tweet out this exact point though, something is definitely happening somewhere with the Telegraph turning against Boris in some editorials. I think their Trump tactics to get a favourable press ahead of all this did them no favours.

    Whether it'll be enough? Guess we'll see. I've more hope than I've got the US as I don't think we've got so many critical political faults yet, despite Brexit, and this is something that hits directly at journalists.

  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    Can't believe Cummings travelled 350 miles breaking lockdown.

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  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Our opposition leader down here was also doing Lot of travel during lockdown.

    He just lost his leadership office, but that might not be fully related.

    Shadowhope
  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    edited May 23
    japan wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    Watch them claim he did nothing wrong.



    Note ratio

    Edit: if nothing else, this whole incident appears to be as good a confirmation that you're ever likely to get that Peston and Kuenssberg's "no 10 source" is, in fact, Cummings himself

    Absolutely fucking rancid by LauraK.

    Some of her "anonymous source" briefings during Boris's tenure have been beneath contempt, simply trotting out government attack lines whilst shielding the government, but this should (but won't be) career ending.

    Alistair Hutton on
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  • BurnageBurnage irregular Registered User regular
    I must have missed that part of the guidance where we were told to interact with older family members in case of illness.

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  • Bad-BeatBad-Beat Registered User regular
    edited May 23
    The source Laura is alluding to is so transparently Cummings himself. She's been getting as much stick as Cummings on twitter since that tweet. Really bad judgement.

    Bad-Beat on
  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    Bad-Beat wrote: »
    The source Laura is alluding to is so transparently Cummings himself. She's been getting as much stick as Cummings on twitter since that tweet. Really bad judgement.

    Of course it is, but she has given him
    deniability for any lies he might have told.

    Utter stooge.

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  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    Charlie Brooker cruising for a Twitter ban

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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Worth it, Charlie

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  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    For those who missed it Charlie Brooker changed his screen name to Laura Kussenberg and his profile pic to match hers.

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Worth it, Charlie

    Already changed back sadly.

    For those who missed it, he changed his screen name and profile pic to match that of Laura Kuenssberg.

    A bit of a dick move, but given the context, fully appropriate.

  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Worth it, Charlie

    Already changed back sadly.

    For those who missed it, he changed his screen name and profile pic to match that of Laura Kuenssberg.

    A bit of a dick move, but given the context, fully appropriate.

    Didn't we establish that renaming your account to whatever you like is fine during the GE? I seem to remember the tories imitating a fact checking account during the debates and they faced absolutely no consequences.

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  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    Sources say that renaming your account to pass yourself off as somebody else is within Twitter guidelines

  • JazzJazz Fuck cancer. Un-UKRegistered User regular
    altid wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    Worth it, Charlie

    Already changed back sadly.

    For those who missed it, he changed his screen name and profile pic to match that of Laura Kuenssberg.

    A bit of a dick move, but given the context, fully appropriate.

    Didn't we establish that renaming your account to whatever you like is fine during the GE? I seem to remember the tories imitating a fact checking account during the debates and they faced absolutely no consequences.

    Ah but see that was okay because reasons.

  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    The official number 10 statement now raise even more questions as it contradicts LuaraK's totally anoymous sauces and also the Durham Police spokesman

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  • Bad-BeatBad-Beat Registered User regular
    Laura K's tweet was Dominic's initial excuse when he'd only had an hour to think.

    The Downing Street statement is Dominic's new excuse after a night and a morning to strategise.

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    altid wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    Worth it, Charlie

    Already changed back sadly.

    For those who missed it, he changed his screen name and profile pic to match that of Laura Kuenssberg.

    A bit of a dick move, but given the context, fully appropriate.

    Didn't we establish that renaming your account to whatever you like is fine during the GE? I seem to remember the tories imitating a fact checking account during the debates and they faced absolutely no consequences.

    While I get your point, I'm not sure modelling correct behavior on the actions of Tories when it comes to morality, is the right move.

    Not suggesting that the opposition should unilaterally disarm, cause screw that. Just pointing out "I can be a dickhead because they're dickheads" just makes everyone dickheads.

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