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  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    I think it's related to the Dog Folk of Hyperborea who retreated beneath the earth after, through their own folly, the sun became hateful to them

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  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Had it coming if you ask me

  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    Action update on wolf coin

    6mwwGuH.png

    I think 822 is sayin like...something oracle of Apollo somethin somethin a new city where he encountered a wolf with a mans hand in its mouth? Founding myth coin?

    Wait! @tynic you talk German right

  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    It says a wolf which bit off a man's hand is found in a local myth, the founder of Laranda, Lykaon, was told by an oracle that he should build a city where he saw a wolf carrying a hand in its mouth

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  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    "That sounds like a screamingly terrible portent there oracle but who am I to say I suppose, city it is"

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  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    As a note, that's a different Lycaon than the one who is famous as the Greek version of a werewolf (that's Lycaon of Arcadia, who killed his son and served him to Zeus and was punished for it by being turned into a wolf - he is the mythical founder of Lycosura).

    Obviously there's still some wolf connection there, and it may be why Lycaon was chosen as a name for the legendary founder. It's not a unique name in Greek mythology - I know at very least it was the name of one of Priam's fifty sons.

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  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Well it's also derived isn't it, so if you had a wolf related story you could incorporate a wolf-related name. You see that a lot in oral storytelling traditions, especially Balkan/Hellenic ones

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  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    There are definitely better sources for German-reading on the forums than me, but I am happy to be tagged in any and all horrifying wolf myths.

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  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    edited May 18
    Hobnail wrote: »
    "That sounds like a screamingly terrible portent there oracle but who am I to say I suppose, city it is"

    You had to have a PhD in bullshit to make most recitations from the Sibyl of Delphi or other seer fly in the real world. When she predicted that the "wooden walls" would save Athens from the Persians, Themistocles had to spin shit so hard to get them to invest in a naval fleet over actual walls it could've ran a powerplant.

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  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    Hobnail wrote: »
    "That sounds like a screamingly terrible portent there oracle but who am I to say I suppose, city it is"

    You had to have a PhD in bullshit to make most recitations from the Sibyl of Delphi or other seer fly in the real world. When she predicted that the "wooden walls" would save Athens from the Persians, Themistocles had to spin shit so hard to get them to invest in a naval fleet over actual walls it could've ran a powerplant.

    It's always fascinating to see how that sort of shit seems to have worked. I think I remember a bit in the Anabasis where an oracle sees something that says they should remain where they are and you can clearly tell that the writer is like "he was scared because we were going to have to get in a fight, so I 'saw an omen' that we should move on after we rested for a little bit, lucky I know omens!"

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  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    AFAIK it’s thought that most of this nonsense was perfectly transparent to all involved, but oracles and omens provided a certain amount of political cover, plus part of the expected political skillset was spinning bullshit. At least that’s true for Rome, not sure about Greece,
    Our system basically uses “policy thinktanks” the same way.

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  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    "On the one hand every part of my body is screaming that this oracle is full of shit, on the other hand Zeus might be real and might smite my nethers with a thunderbolt for disregarding this oracle"

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  • JuggernutJuggernut Registered User regular
    edited May 18
    I just found a podcast called Blowback that's about the memory hole of the Iraq War. First episode up is free. The rest are locked on a stitcher premium account but I think they said the full 10 part series will be out for free in June.

    First episode has H. Jon Benjamin as Saddam Hussein.

    Juggernut on
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  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    edited May 18
    tynic wrote: »
    AFAIK it’s thought that most of this nonsense was perfectly transparent to all involved, but oracles and omens provided a certain amount of political cover, plus part of the expected political skillset was spinning bullshit. At least that’s true for Rome, not sure about Greece,
    Our system basically uses “policy thinktanks” the same way.

    I love Publius Claudius Pulcher, an admiral in the first Punic War that got pissed at the sacred chickens not eating their offering (indicating that they shouldn't attack) and then proceeded to throw said cock over the rail to see if it would drink and ordering the fleet to advance.

    The Roman's got their asses kicked (battle of Drepana, IIRC), lost over 100 ships and Pulcher was recalled to Rome and tried for impiety and incompetence.

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  • JedocJedoc Take a look. It's in a book. It was always in a book, you fool.Registered User regular
    "I told you man! I told you dog! I told you about Carthaginians!"
    ~Sacred Chickens, Probably

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  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    edited May 18
    Jedoc wrote: »
    "I told you man! I told you dog! I told you about Carthaginians!"
    ~Sacred Chickens, Probably

    There were an official order or priests whose job was caring for and interpreting these bird brains. They were called pullarius/ae and they were serious business.

    Behold their majesty

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  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    edited May 18
    Finally finished "The Story of the Irish Race" by Seamus MacManus c.1921. (3rd edition) As the name suggests it focuses on the history of Ireland, although I'd categorize it more as folk history than an actual historical evaluation. The first half of the book focuses on a lot of old pre-christian irish folklore and historical legend with a somewhat tongue in cheek tone of "well this probably definitely actually happened." The later half of the book is a lot more of a traditional historical overview although it keeps a lot of flavor and if you were to use at a source of historical information I would suggest at periodically comparing the information presented with other sources. MacManus doesn't fabricate anything, but he does either stretch or downplay details periodically. His aim is to paint Ireland in as positive a light as possible, which means he sometimes fudges things.

    Anyways, I mostly want to talk about one of the last chapters in the book, "The Modern Literature of Ireland" cause it's a highlight. Macmanus obviously had a passion for all things irish, but as a poet and writer himself, you can really feel his love come through when he gets to talk about both the writing that likely inspired him to start writing, and all his peers. He drops bunches of names, talks about which irish writers he thinks are overrated and underrated, it's just fun. I especially like when he starts to name irish writers of the next generation who he thinks are really talented, but then stops himself and thinks better of it:
    "There are living other Irish writers who excel O'Leary, O'Conaire, and Pearse in scholarship, in beauty of style, and in potentiality, but they have yet to do their best work, and it would be invidious to attempt comparisons."
    Basically he is saying (he was approaching 60 at the time) he thinks there are current younger writers who are more talented than the masters of yesteryear, but that if he name drops them people in Gaelic literary circles that he personally knows are gonna get butthurt, and besides as these people are all younger than him it'd be unfair to judge them on a likely very incomplete body of work.

    It's just nice that sometimes, for just a little bit, you can in reading something feel a true human connection with person long dead from a far different time. Just an irish poet nerding out about his favorite "modern" (for the time) literary trends and authors. Again, it's fun, makes me imagine the guy as an old affable (but extremely opinionated) guy who'd be willing to talk at, if not necessarily with. anyone about his passions.

    Gundi on
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  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Total coincidence but over lunch I picked up an article on the odyssey which has a long exploration of the import of Telemachus’ sneezing at a key moment, and how much of that was intended as a portent vs. a physical manifestation of adolescent awkwardness. We don’t know! I had a half memory that the Greeks thought sneezes indicated a truth had just been uttered, but apparently that interpretation only dates back to the 12th century and we don’t know if it’s reliable.

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  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    If I was Homer, Telemachus would likely sneeze if it was the only thing which rhymed at that moment

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    tynic wrote: »
    AFAIK it’s thought that most of this nonsense was perfectly transparent to all involved, but oracles and omens provided a certain amount of political cover, plus part of the expected political skillset was spinning bullshit. At least that’s true for Rome, not sure about Greece,
    Our system basically uses “policy thinktanks” the same way.

    I love Publius Claudius Pulcher, an admiral in the first Punic War that got pissed at the sacred chickens not eating their offering (indicating that they shouldn't attack) and then proceeded to throw said cock over the rail to see if it would drink and ordering the fleet to advance.

    The Roman's got their asses kicked (battle of Drepana, IIRC), lost over 100 ships and Pulcher was recalled to Rome and tried for impiety and incompetence.

    Not to be confused with a later Publius Clodius Pulcher, who basically tried to run Rome right before the triumvirate happened.

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  • JuggernutJuggernut Registered User regular
    Jedoc wrote: »
    "I told you man! I told you dog! I told you about Carthaginians!"
    ~Sacred Chickens, Probably

    There were an official order or priests whose job was caring for and interpreting these bird brains. They were called pullarius/ae and they were serious business.

    Behold their majesty

    Rome took over the entire world despite having chicken oracles if they can do it my dumb ass must have some chance of general success.

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  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    There's an excellent bit in one of Lindsey Davis's books where her main character becomes Protector of the Imperial Geese and is extremely salty about it.

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  • PeasPeas Registered User regular
    Failed Assassinations — History Hijinks 10:17

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  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Now then

    That's bloody good

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  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    edited May 23
    The Northern routes going from Scandinavia to the Caspian and then on to Baghdad and Samarkand produced some amazing cross pollination. In the 10th century one of the Abbasid caliphate's diplomats was a transplanted Irish monk that was taken in a Viking raid and sold into slavery via the North Baltic route and then you have stuff like a 7th century Indian buddha statue found on the island of Helgo in the middle of Lake Malaren in Sweden, most likey imported via the same route.

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  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    edited May 23
    tynic wrote: »

    If it weren't so damned dangerous, it would have been awesome to have been on a continents spanning trade route that went at the speed of ox and sailing ship.

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  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    edited May 24
  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    Some thoughts regarding the trade route map, just in case anyone's interested

    The Great Lakes region in the 11th and 12th century would have the Kitara Empire or something closely resembling it as a local hegemon - we unfortunately have little archaeological and historical information but the same thing is also true for other regions on the map like Indonesia, Ternate is probably on the map because cloves had to come from somewhere

    Also there was probably a more direct connection between Indonesia and East Africa, Indonesian Islam is closely related to East African Islam and Madagascar was settled by people from Borneo (!) based on linguistic evidence

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  • chromdomchromdom Who? Where?Registered User regular
    edited May 24
    How much of Antarctica does Australia watch over?

    Edit: Holy crap!
    antarctic-stations-map.1024x0.jpg

    chromdom on
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  • PeasPeas Registered User regular
    The Past We Can Never Return To – The Anthropocene Reviewed 8:29

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  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    Ooo that sounds like a fun one

    Peas
  • JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    edited May 24
    Platy wrote: »
    Some thoughts regarding the trade route map, just in case anyone's interested

    The Great Lakes region in the 11th and 12th century would have the Kitara Empire or something closely resembling it as a local hegemon - we unfortunately have little archaeological and historical information but the same thing is also true for other regions on the map like Indonesia, Ternate is probably on the map because cloves had to come from somewhere

    Also there was probably a more direct connection between Indonesia and East Africa, Indonesian Islam is closely related to East African Islam and Madagascar was settled by people from Borneo (!) based on linguistic evidence

    Where they based out of Chicago or Green Bay?

    JusticeforPluto on
  • PeasPeas Registered User regular
    edited May 24
    Exploring Medieval Birmingham 1300 6:28


    The playlist is pretty good for medieval buildings and construction

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  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    tynic wrote: »

    That's how, roundabouts 1245 CE, the Holy Roman Emperor owned a sulphur-crested cockatoo brought over all the way from New Guinea or further.

    2d03a3e45ed6415c395b7663242e7640aa46cf102f51c91ccda96d56524f.jpg


    On a dumb note, I have this mental image of the Emperor showing around some honored guests through his aviaries. "Here's a great eagle from Africa...here's a peacock of Asia, said to be the sacred bird of Juno..." and then at the end getting to the cockatoo. "Finally, this is a white parrot gifted by the Sultan of Babylon from furthest India, the India beyond India! The most exotic and grandest of my birds, because watch this!" He gestures to a musician that's been tailing the group the entire time.


    [If you're short on time skip to 1:35]

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  • JuggernutJuggernut Registered User regular
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    I love that guy and his channel

  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    You don't know how much faster the (American) Civil War would have gone if the union maps had just little addendums all over saying "thar be shit swamps and shit bogs here."

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  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    82% of all military catastrophes/triumphs are due to unforseen swamps and bogs

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  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    Bogs kill more people each year than great white sharks.

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