Wishing for an Overwatch hero is perhaps not a great idea considering how well those have worked out in the past
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Wishing for an Overwatch hero is perhaps not a great idea considering how well those have worked out in the past
It would be nice to have a decent Tank from the OW universe. D.Va and Zarya are trash.
Zarya is legit an incredible hero, but she has a very high skill floor in order to play well.
The first misnomer is that Zarya is not a tank, she is a... well, she most closely resembles a bruiser. She's labeled "Support", but she's a tanky frontliner who can negate a lot of incoming damage and put out a ton of damage herself.
Playing Zarya well means being intimately familiar with almost every single hero's abilities in the game. You need to know how all these things work so you can time your shields properly. Shield timing is the number one thing that sets apart good Zaryas from bad ones. It's on a relatively high cd so it can be easy to waste.
A good Zarya scares the shit out of me. She is a legit good hero that can enable hypercarries and defend against them.
D.Va and Zarya are glorified Bruisers or Supports, not Tanks. That’s what I meant as them being trash. At the very least, D.Va should have been a hybrid Tank/Assasssin, but nope, another Bruiser.
In brighter news, the 4-stack I played with yesterday was on today and we played a pair of games today, both wins. The only other guy that was talking with a mic, straight up asked me to shot call. I admit I’m not the best shot caller, but any organization in Silver basically wins games.
The only time we fell behind is when people went rogue and got rotated on. Rather than rage, I always said it wasn’t a big deal “eh, we’ll lose a fort or two” and kept everyone cool. Our Jaina in particular was not listening and died quite a few times. When she hit a ring in a team fight, I made sure to heap on the praise.
Who would have thought all those years of people managing would pay off in a MOBA?
MNC Dover on
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Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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Watch 9:00-9:17. Seriously Fan, how you so good? I can't imagine anyone else making that move.
That's pretty normal Illidan play, I think
Q onto the minion to get out of Tower range, Q over the gate hit Evasion to not take any damage, W for the kill when her shield drops, walk away. Nothing really out of the ordinary there. As Illidan you're always looking for Q targets and positioning yourself in a way to let you jump out of danger. Evasion completely blocks Tower/Fort damage so you have a window where it's safe to actually dive over structures like that.
Zarya is great if you have the game-sense and reaction time necessary to effectively use her Shields to mitigate enemy burst. If you don't, she's pretty awful and you'll get more mileage out of ... anybody else.
I had a rage in draft when a teammate got super posed after another teammate was showing Murky on Alterac. Instead of just leaving, this chucklefuck said he was picking Aba if Murky was taken.
“If they gonna throw, I’m gonna throw”
What a sad way of living life.
MNC Dover on
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Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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I had a rage in draft when a teammate got super posed after another teammate was showing Murky on Alterac. Instead of just leaving, this chucklefuck said he was picking Aba if Murky was taken.
“If they gonna throw, I’m gonna throw”
What a sad way of living life.
That was really frustrating. And despite that pick we were doing a decent job of hanging on for a while or at least just not outright getting shoved in. We just couldn't contest anything (as Lucio, Li-Ming, and Muradin) and it was an attrition game we couldn't win. I can only imagine what we could have done if that guy had basically picked anything else than a spite/throw pick.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Murky is good, actually
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
The Murky pick is fine. He's unironically a good pick in lower brackets, because he gains value based on the amount of time he's allowed to do his own thing, and ain't nobody gonna stop him in Silver. You were fine with the Murky; it was the spite/troll pick that fucked you.
Those ranks are such a jungle it doesn't make sense to pre-judge anyone's picks. You don't know who might be a Murky, Abathur, etc. smurf who gets far more wins on a hero you think is bad than they would get playing e.g., Rag.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Murky Aba is a fucking nightmare to play against in certain situations. It’s patently unfair.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
i straight up watched my boy @milk ducks land a black hole on three people today and fucking annihilated them so maybe i need to rethink about taking this ult more often hmmmmmm
The Murky pick is fine. He's unironically a good pick in lower brackets, because he gains value based on the amount of time he's allowed to do his own thing, and ain't nobody gonna stop him in Silver. You were fine with the Murky; it was the spite/troll pick that fucked you.
This is truth
I am not good at this game. With Murky, if they don't have someone who can stop me being Murky, I can keep a bunch of potatoes in the game long enough for me to get some work done, either with Octograb assassinations or March of the Murloc splitpushing.
It doesn't feel like 'carrying' but good goddamn with proper soak you put that team in your backpack and go
I wasn't necessarily a huge fan of the Murky pick, at silver level you just don't know what you're going to get. However I didn't think the Murky pick was the end of the world or anything. It can definitely work out for many reasons as noted. The spite Aba pick because of Murky though caused all the problems. We had already picked Li-Ming (insta-snapped first pick) and Dover and I had Lucio and Muradin. So Murky and abathur were our last actual picks, murky was just showing it from the beginning and the other guy "threatened" picking Aba if he went Murky.
Murky I feel was actually doing well and helping. I'm not actually sure what Abathur contributed to that match. I think I saw him shield like 3 times that I noticed. I'm sure those picks can work well together in the right hands, but threatening a "spite" pick of Aba you just know is going to go poorly. I'm honestly not sure I could tell you what ult he went with. I don't recall seeing either one offhand, but I think it might have been the clone one.
Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Yeah, I feel like complaining about hero picks in sub-Plat (perhaps even Diamond) is a bit like complaining about someone farting when they haven't taken a shower in 2 weeks.
The only thing you need to worry about murky is that he can't help in team fights too much until 10.
From there on he starts becoming really, really, strong, but it's up to the player at that point.
Lots of heroes aren't much help until 10; even popular ones, like Illidan, need Unending Hatred and Hunt online before they can start contributing meaningfully to teamfights.
I honestly hate playing against Bribe Murky: if I'm not playing a hero with fast enough AAs, or if he starts physically body-blocking his Pufferfish to prevent me from clicking on it, I have to hold and burn ability cooldowns to stop it; if an enemy rotates into my lane and forces me out, he gets stacks; if I repeatedly shut him down, he'll either move to a different lane where my allies won't be as diligent as I was, and he'll gain stacks, or he'll start to proxy the wave behind my Fort. If I dont respond immediately, he gets stacks. If he ties me up too long, his own minion wave starts to crash uncontested against my Towers, meaning I lose structure health and possibly XP.
He won't go to early objectives, because he doesn't contribute meaningfully until 10. But if I leave him alone, he stacks, and immediately converts those stacks into camp steals. But if I DO stay with him, preventing that from happening, odds are that whatever character I'm playing has a much stronger early game and would have brought a lot. Meaning, like, his team comes out ahead because a late game hero has prevented an early game hero from helping his team win an objective.
There's literally no good play against him. You just constantly have to eat shit, and choose the least-worst option available to you. And obviously, your team will disagree with whatever decision you make. You will always have made the wrong decision, in their eyes. But will they take camps on your side of the map to prevent him from Bribe stealing? No, of course not. They won't do shit to stop him, and they'll spend the entire game bitching about it.
Blizzard has done a pretty excellent job at this point making sure most heroes in the game are fun to play, with a few exceptions (rework Cassia, D.Va maybe). They just don't seem to care about making heroes fun to play against. Essentially every game I play now, I'm up against at least one hero that just feels like pulling teeth to play into. Abathur, Samuro, Murky, TLV, Kelthuzad, Zagara, Mephisto, Tracer... "Hope my opponent messes up" is not engaging gameplay. "Argue with my team about who doesn't get to play the video game and instead babysits the split pusher" is not engaging gameplay. "Slowly lose for 25 minutes because half the heroes in the game are much easier to play as than deal with" isn't even close.
I get that there are people who enjoy the macro game more than teamfights, but it's at the point where I haven't played any mode other than brawl unless I'm in a group of 4 or 5 for the last few months. Am I the only one? I'll readily admit to preferring the 'smashing heads' part of the game to playing the map, but I've been playing HotS for years now and haven't felt this way until recently.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
I was never a big fan of Bribe in Murky's kit. I'm not a big fan of it in anyone's kit, to be honest. At least, not as it is currently implemented, with the direct link between minion kills and Bribe stacks.
Consider how it's implemented today - Murky is actually the hero whose Bribe stacks require a modicum of skill and can actually be countered (albeit with some effort, per ducks's post). The rest are passive stacking talents and/or run counter to how the hero should be played.
Falstad? Sit in lane and get stacks. TLV? Sit in lane and get stacks. Brightwing? Sit in lane and get stacks. Nova? Freaking Nova? Sit in lane and get stacks (why you would give an ambush hero with literally no waveclear a minion-kill stacking talent is beyond me). Like, either the Nova and her team are smart and realize she can get stacks if she rotates when and they kill minions while she is there or she has a trash-tier Level 4 talent. And the best case scenario means she will just be part of the normal rotation and just run back-and-forth between lanes like everyone else, which runs completely counter to how the hero should be played - to be a hidden threat anywhere on the map and to provide vision where none otherwise could be had.
I honestly hate playing against Bribe Murky: if I'm not playing a hero with fast enough AAs, or if he starts physically body-blocking his Pufferfish to prevent me from clicking on it, I have to hold and burn ability cooldowns to stop it; if an enemy rotates into my lane and forces me out, he gets stacks; if I repeatedly shut him down, he'll either move to a different lane where my allies won't be as diligent as I was, and he'll gain stacks, or he'll start to proxy the wave behind my Fort. If I dont respond immediately, he gets stacks. If he ties me up too long, his own minion wave starts to crash uncontested against my Towers, meaning I lose structure health and possibly XP.
He won't go to early objectives, because he doesn't contribute meaningfully until 10. But if I leave him alone, he stacks, and immediately converts those stacks into camp steals. But if I DO stay with him, preventing that from happening, odds are that whatever character I'm playing has a much stronger early game and would have brought a lot. Meaning, like, his team comes out ahead because a late game hero has prevented an early game hero from helping his team win an objective.
There's literally no good play against him. You just constantly have to eat shit, and choose the least-worst option available to you. And obviously, your team will disagree with whatever decision you make. You will always have made the wrong decision, in their eyes. But will they take camps on your side of the map to prevent him from Bribe stealing? No, of course not. They won't do shit to stop him, and they'll spend the entire game bitching about it.
Nothing is more hilarious then playing a game into Murky with ducks and goading him constantly. "Oh look, Murky got a stack!" "Look where Murky is! He's behind the fort getting free XP and stacks!" "LOL no one on our team is getting the camp, Murky is just going to steal it in 30 seconds." "Murky is gone, I bet he's taking the giants!" "Murky isn't coming to the objective, he's double stacking and the he's gonna take our camp while we fight for 3 minutes over nothing!"
Then he tilts into oblivion and does shit like play Jungle Muradin and solos camps just to stop Murky from taking them. And then he dies to Murky (and the rest of the enemy team) right before he caps the camp because it took him 2 minutes to solo it and our team doesn't know what camps are.
It's glorious. The main joy I get out of this game now is watching bad macro play while inting pushing my limits on high-skill heroes.
Now hear me out, it sounds like the answer to @milk ducks Murky problem is to just play as Murky. He’s great at literally everything Ducks loves to do in a match. Plus, playing as Murky means NOT playing against Murky. A win-win!
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On the one hand, I've definitely gotten quite a few whomps with it. I've definitely knocked some fools the fuck OUT with it.
On the other hand, there have been times where I've literally landed a 2-3+ person Black Hole combo (yes including the Wall behind them) and smashed all my abilities into them...... And they just up and walk away after because my team was standing around doing jack shit, I guess?
I dunno. I'm still gonna keep taking it and practicing with it, but it feels really weird still. Hell, I died today because I dared to fucking hit R+E+W+Q and the resulting animation lock made the enemy team go "oh, free target" and fucking killed me before I could even move out of it. Still feels like I'm doing something wrong, somehow, even though I know I'm doing it right. Still feels like I basically have to be in goddamn melee range to do it. Still feels like sometimes I toss it out and literally nothing happens after and they just up and walk away. Hmmm."
Edit: Still feels like the enemy team has to screw up positioning-wise for me to use it effectively. Still feels like my team has to have more than half a brain to actually focus the goddamn Black Hole targets and kill them. I dunno! It feels very reliant on so many external factors.
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Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Junkrat is fine!
It would be nice to have a decent Tank from the OW universe. D.Va and Zarya are trash.
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Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
Zarya is legit an incredible hero, but she has a very high skill floor in order to play well.
The first misnomer is that Zarya is not a tank, she is a... well, she most closely resembles a bruiser. She's labeled "Support", but she's a tanky frontliner who can negate a lot of incoming damage and put out a ton of damage herself.
Playing Zarya well means being intimately familiar with almost every single hero's abilities in the game. You need to know how all these things work so you can time your shields properly. Shield timing is the number one thing that sets apart good Zaryas from bad ones. It's on a relatively high cd so it can be easy to waste.
A good Zarya scares the shit out of me. She is a legit good hero that can enable hypercarries and defend against them.
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In brighter news, the 4-stack I played with yesterday was on today and we played a pair of games today, both wins. The only other guy that was talking with a mic, straight up asked me to shot call. I admit I’m not the best shot caller, but any organization in Silver basically wins games.
The only time we fell behind is when people went rogue and got rotated on. Rather than rage, I always said it wasn’t a big deal “eh, we’ll lose a fort or two” and kept everyone cool. Our Jaina in particular was not listening and died quite a few times. When she hit a ring in a team fight, I made sure to heap on the praise.
Who would have thought all those years of people managing would pay off in a MOBA?
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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I mean, it is a fact to say there are zero Overwatch Tanks, but I don't think one should even hold Zarya or D.Va in the same category at all.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
I don't. They're not Tanks. Their Bruiser/Supports, but should have been Tanks, well at least D.Va.
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Dva should be a tank in Overwatch too, but Blizzard disagrees!
Unfortunately.
I like D.Va
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Watch 9:00-9:17. Seriously Fan, how you so good? I can't imagine anyone else making that move.
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That's pretty normal Illidan play, I think
Q onto the minion to get out of Tower range, Q over the gate hit Evasion to not take any damage, W for the kill when her shield drops, walk away. Nothing really out of the ordinary there. As Illidan you're always looking for Q targets and positioning yourself in a way to let you jump out of danger. Evasion completely blocks Tower/Fort damage so you have a window where it's safe to actually dive over structures like that.
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Hey, I’m still learning, ok?!
I had a rage in draft when a teammate got super posed after another teammate was showing Murky on Alterac. Instead of just leaving, this chucklefuck said he was picking Aba if Murky was taken.
“If they gonna throw, I’m gonna throw”
What a sad way of living life.
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That was really frustrating. And despite that pick we were doing a decent job of hanging on for a while or at least just not outright getting shoved in. We just couldn't contest anything (as Lucio, Li-Ming, and Muradin) and it was an attrition game we couldn't win. I can only imagine what we could have done if that guy had basically picked anything else than a spite/throw pick.
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Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
This is truth
I am not good at this game. With Murky, if they don't have someone who can stop me being Murky, I can keep a bunch of potatoes in the game long enough for me to get some work done, either with Octograb assassinations or March of the Murloc splitpushing.
It doesn't feel like 'carrying' but good goddamn with proper soak you put that team in your backpack and go
Murky I feel was actually doing well and helping. I'm not actually sure what Abathur contributed to that match. I think I saw him shield like 3 times that I noticed. I'm sure those picks can work well together in the right hands, but threatening a "spite" pick of Aba you just know is going to go poorly. I'm honestly not sure I could tell you what ult he went with. I don't recall seeing either one offhand, but I think it might have been the clone one.
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From there on he starts becoming really, really, strong, but it's up to the player at that point.
Also, Dynouh is absurd.
https://clips.twitch.tv/BoxyArtsyBaboonStoneLightning
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wra
He won't go to early objectives, because he doesn't contribute meaningfully until 10. But if I leave him alone, he stacks, and immediately converts those stacks into camp steals. But if I DO stay with him, preventing that from happening, odds are that whatever character I'm playing has a much stronger early game and would have brought a lot. Meaning, like, his team comes out ahead because a late game hero has prevented an early game hero from helping his team win an objective.
There's literally no good play against him. You just constantly have to eat shit, and choose the least-worst option available to you. And obviously, your team will disagree with whatever decision you make. You will always have made the wrong decision, in their eyes. But will they take camps on your side of the map to prevent him from Bribe stealing? No, of course not. They won't do shit to stop him, and they'll spend the entire game bitching about it.
I get that there are people who enjoy the macro game more than teamfights, but it's at the point where I haven't played any mode other than brawl unless I'm in a group of 4 or 5 for the last few months. Am I the only one? I'll readily admit to preferring the 'smashing heads' part of the game to playing the map, but I've been playing HotS for years now and haven't felt this way until recently.
Consider how it's implemented today - Murky is actually the hero whose Bribe stacks require a modicum of skill and can actually be countered (albeit with some effort, per ducks's post). The rest are passive stacking talents and/or run counter to how the hero should be played.
Falstad? Sit in lane and get stacks. TLV? Sit in lane and get stacks. Brightwing? Sit in lane and get stacks. Nova? Freaking Nova? Sit in lane and get stacks (why you would give an ambush hero with literally no waveclear a minion-kill stacking talent is beyond me). Like, either the Nova and her team are smart and realize she can get stacks if she rotates when and they kill minions while she is there or she has a trash-tier Level 4 talent. And the best case scenario means she will just be part of the normal rotation and just run back-and-forth between lanes like everyone else, which runs completely counter to how the hero should be played - to be a hidden threat anywhere on the map and to provide vision where none otherwise could be had.
Nothing is more hilarious then playing a game into Murky with ducks and goading him constantly. "Oh look, Murky got a stack!" "Look where Murky is! He's behind the fort getting free XP and stacks!" "LOL no one on our team is getting the camp, Murky is just going to steal it in 30 seconds." "Murky is gone, I bet he's taking the giants!" "Murky isn't coming to the objective, he's double stacking and the he's gonna take our camp while we fight for 3 minutes over nothing!"
Then he tilts into oblivion and does shit like play Jungle Muradin and solos camps just to stop Murky from taking them. And then he dies to Murky (and the rest of the enemy team) right before he caps the camp because it took him 2 minutes to solo it and our team doesn't know what camps are.
It's glorious. The main joy I get out of this game now is watching bad macro play while inting pushing my limits on high-skill heroes.
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On the one hand, I've definitely gotten quite a few whomps with it. I've definitely knocked some fools the fuck OUT with it.
On the other hand, there have been times where I've literally landed a 2-3+ person Black Hole combo (yes including the Wall behind them) and smashed all my abilities into them...... And they just up and walk away after because my team was standing around doing jack shit, I guess?
I dunno. I'm still gonna keep taking it and practicing with it, but it feels really weird still. Hell, I died today because I dared to fucking hit R+E+W+Q and the resulting animation lock made the enemy team go "oh, free target" and fucking killed me before I could even move out of it. Still feels like I'm doing something wrong, somehow, even though I know I'm doing it right. Still feels like I basically have to be in goddamn melee range to do it. Still feels like sometimes I toss it out and literally nothing happens after and they just up and walk away. Hmmm."
Edit: Still feels like the enemy team has to screw up positioning-wise for me to use it effectively. Still feels like my team has to have more than half a brain to actually focus the goddamn Black Hole targets and kill them. I dunno! It feels very reliant on so many external factors.
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