bernie also endorsed biden, his endorsement holds a lot less weight now
I mean
who else is he gonna endorse, Trump?
I don't like Biden anymore than the next guy here but I'm not going to blame Bernie for endorsing him and doing what he can to get Trump the fuck out of the Whitehouse.
But if Biden picks -Harris- then we're done for and Bernie should absolutely be calling Joe up and yelling no repeatedly at Biden. (and for all we know he is)
He could endorse no one
I've not endorsed anyone, it was easy. Most of us manage it.
Of all the things I expected to read this morning, in the midst of deep political turmoil, racial discrimination and systemic violence leading to direct action around the country, LGBT+ people's rights and protections existing in a quantum state, stories coming out of black men being openly lynched in California while the police rule that these were suicides with no signs of foul play, a global reconsideration of the role of armed enforcers of the state, and a national reckoning with the United States' history of slavery and genocide—
Of all the things I expected to read this morning, they did not include alt future fucking fanfiction that smugly treats a repetition of one of the most horrible possible scenarios in a nation's history, a repeat of which would result in the death of hundreds of thousands or millions from food scarcity alone, as an inevitability that Americans can't see because they're simply too close to it
Of all the things I expected to read this morning, in the midst of deep political turmoil, racial discrimination and systemic violence leading to direct action around the country, LGBT+ people's rights and protections existing in a quantum state, stories coming out of black men being openly lynched in California while the police rule that these were suicides with no signs of foul play, a global reconsideration of the role of armed enforcers of the state, and a national reckoning with the United States' history of slavery and genocide—
Of all the things I expected to read this morning, they did not include alt future fucking fanfiction that smugly treats one of the most horrible possible scenarios in a nation's history, a repeat of which would result in the death of hundreds of thousands or millions from food scarcity alone, as an inevitability that Americans can't see because they're simply too close to it
What the fuck is all of this?
It's a growing realization that the federal government's dysfunction is incredibly deep and impervious to reform. If either party had a credible path out of that, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
You know those articles written about the United States as if it was a foreign nation being covered by American journalists? Every one of them would be discussing the growing balkanization and overall stability of the American Empire.
I'm not sure why discussing what's actually happening and what it means becomes some great moral failing because it would not be a good thing. None of us think any of this is good, but the status quo is not holding.
Traditionall you pick a VP to shore up where your support is weak, which in Biden's case is left wing people. Harris is basically the same as him for where they have support.
I'm not sure there's a really good choice fof Biden. I'd go with Rashida Tlaib, but I'd settle for Julian Castro.
Of all the things I expected to read this morning, in the midst of deep political turmoil, racial discrimination and systemic violence leading to direct action around the country, LGBT+ people's rights and protections existing in a quantum state, stories coming out of black men being openly lynched in California while the police rule that these were suicides with no signs of foul play, a global reconsideration of the role of armed enforcers of the state, and a national reckoning with the United States' history of slavery and genocide—
Of all the things I expected to read this morning, they did not include alt future fucking fanfiction that smugly treats one of the most horrible possible scenarios in a nation's history, a repeat of which would result in the death of hundreds of thousands or millions from food scarcity alone, as an inevitability that Americans can't see because they're simply too close to it
What the fuck is all of this?
It's a growing realization that the federal government's dysfunction is incredibly deep and impervious to reform. If either party had a credible path out of that, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
You know those articles written about the United States as if it was a foreign nation being covered by American journalists? Every one of them would be discussing the growing balkanization and overall stability of the American Empire.
I'm not sure why discussing what's actually happening and what it means becomes some great moral failing because it would not be a good thing. None of us think any of this is good, but the status quo is not holding.
This situation is not about the failrues of federalism
Lord God Christ in Heaven this is the biggest rawdog sideroad fuckarow imaginable—the situation right now is about municipal state enforcers who are obliterating civil liberties! Yes, electoralism is being more widely regarded as meaningfless, but people having a larger focus and plan of action devoted to state and municipal governance doesn't mean that we should expect the dissolution of the federal state!
People are dying. Black men are being lynched in the open. The United States is having another round of coming to terms with its history of atrocity, and that will be reflected in how people relate to the state, yes, but that doesn't mean this is an appropriate time to sit back and theorycraft about the dissolution of the union leading to the deaths of so many people that I can't even finish this fuckign sentence.
This is not the time for smug "ah, but isn't it interesting, and also inevitable?" bullshit. This moment is not about that. It is about George Floyd, and Breonna Taylor, and Robert Fuller, and Malcolm Harsch, and Rayschard Brooks!
Pack this ghoulish shit up for a little while, huh? Be in the moment
Traditionall you pick a VP to shore up where your support is weak, which in Biden's case is left wing people. Harris is basically the same as him for where they have support.
I'm not sure there's a really good choice fof Biden. I'd go with Rashida Tlaib, but I'd settle for Julian Castro.
I'm not sure that this is actually the perception. I still think that there's a lot of faith that those wayward socialists will more or less fall in line, because being shot in the leg is still better than being shot in the chest.
If I had to guess, I would assume that Harris is more a question of optics than an attempt to shore up any specific support. Which is an attempt to shore up support in its own right, I suppose.
Joe’s puck might need to help electorally* but definitely needs to be someone who can actually be president pretty much right away should they win
*there’s probably no pick that helps on the left, but maybe there’s a pick that helps with never trumpers? I don’t give a shit
Imma leave that typo in- seems appropriate when talking Biden
There are no picks that hurt with Never Trumpers. By definition, they have these votes.
And paradoxically, they're the only people they seem interested in courting. That's their entire fucking platform.
Edit: I guess there is one worst possible pick for running mate and it's Donald Trump. Wanna write some silly-ass dystopic fanfic, do this one. Trump/Pence v Biden/Trump 2020. Not As Unlikely As You Think(tm)!
SimBen on
0
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
luv 2 c people casually suggesting that me and everyone I know may just have to get inevitably nuked.
luv 2 c people casually suggesting that me and everyone I know may just have to get inevitably nuked.
Nobody said that
No but there has been talk of the necessity and inevitability of abandonment. And I think the topic has had a pretty inarguable tone of "hm hm fascinating" in a distant academic way a lot of folks are going to find incredibly distasteful
luv 2 c people casually suggesting that me and everyone I know may just have to get inevitably nuked.
Nobody said that
No but there has been talk of the necessity and inevitability of abandonment. And I think the topic has had a pretty inarguable tone of "hm hm fascinating" in a distant academic way a lot of folks are going to find incredibly distasteful
and also repeated requests to knock it the fuck off that are going completely ignored
Way more than the civil war thing I think people balk at shit like californian secession because it feels... I mean, it feels elitist
Like, people constantly joke about how we should let the previous confederate states secede or kick out all the republican states or whatever the fuck, without considering that most of the people most heavily victimized by the GOP are the people living in those states
Like, most black people in america live in the south
It feels callous and self-centered to say "yeah fuck these poor people, I don't want them to be my problem anymore"
And that's not usually what's intended by that attitude but it's the unavoidable consequence of it.
About the only form of "secessionism" or "separatism" I have any sympathy for whatsoever is "we should give the land back to indigenous people"
I have no patience for moviebob horse shit
I'm late on this, but in addition to this, even if somehow you managed to just brush all that aside, technological progress has made it kind of an insane thing. Transportation and communications tech have vastly shrunk the world down from what previous generations would have considered it to be. We live in a time where community doesn't stop at the town or county border, but can be this vastly global thing.
Balkanization or secession, essentially, is a denial of the reality that humanity has been growing closer and closer together, and the borders and boundaries we create on a map are in very many ways been turned into a fiction constructed by the past.
luv 2 c people casually suggesting that me and everyone I know may just have to get inevitably nuked.
Nobody said that
No but there has been talk of the necessity and inevitability of abandonment. And I think the topic has had a pretty inarguable tone of "hm hm fascinating" in a distant academic way a lot of folks are going to find incredibly distasteful
and also repeated requests to knock it the fuck off that are going completely ignored
I'm happy to drop it and I admit it was wrong to derail the conversation away from the important topic of BLM.
Solar on
0
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
The states quietly giving the federal government the finger and having the potential for secession is the backdrop against which the current outcry against systemic racial injustice is occurring, but it's not really on topic anyway. The local spasms of protest and police brutality are just that: local, albeit with national, state, and local policy that helped lead us to this point pretty much nationwide.
So why are we talking about secession--either de-facto or via tanks again?
The states quietly giving the federal government the finger and having the potential for secession is the backdrop against which the current outcry against systemic racial injustice is occurring, but it's not really on topic anyway. The local spasms of protest and police brutality are just that: local, albeit with national, state, and local policy that helped lead us to this point pretty much nationwide.
So why are we talking about secession--either de-facto or via tanks again?
Because we are looking at both parties for federal solutions, and the alternatives being presented are "White Power" versus "More cops."
I feel like Joe's pick is more about someone that isn't afraid to go for blood in speeches and debates because he isn't great at being forceful sounding. In that regard, Harris does offer a solid counterbalance to him in style - just not in substance obviously. I want Warren, she was my pick for the candidacy too though, so I'm a bit biased.
I know it's not what people want to hear, but there is also a good chance that if the protests go too long, public opinion could turn and Harris might appeal to some folks. The promise to restore things back to "normal" from someone who has worked with law enforcement might sound super shitty right now, but in a few months, if things continue to escalate, it will absolutely appeal to some voters. I'll be honest, I just read the demand sheet of the Portland Maine BLM protests, and if they plan on protesting every night until that list is met, they will be out there until they are 100 years old and public sentiment will absolutely turn on them.
Way more than the civil war thing I think people balk at shit like californian secession because it feels... I mean, it feels elitist
Like, people constantly joke about how we should let the previous confederate states secede or kick out all the republican states or whatever the fuck, without considering that most of the people most heavily victimized by the GOP are the people living in those states
Like, most black people in america live in the south
It feels callous and self-centered to say "yeah fuck these poor people, I don't want them to be my problem anymore"
And that's not usually what's intended by that attitude but it's the unavoidable consequence of it.
About the only form of "secessionism" or "separatism" I have any sympathy for whatsoever is "we should give the land back to indigenous people"
I have no patience for moviebob horse shit
I'm late on this, but in addition to this, even if somehow you managed to just brush all that aside, technological progress has made it kind of an insane thing. Transportation and communications tech have vastly shrunk the world down from what previous generations would have considered it to be. We live in a time where community doesn't stop at the town or county border, but can be this vastly global thing.
Balkanization or secession, essentially, is a denial of the reality that humanity has been growing closer and closer together, and the borders and boundaries we create on a map are in very many ways been turned into a fiction constructed by the past.
As a citizen of Quebec, this is exactly the point I frequently get exhausted trying to get across to the many sovereignists I know.
0
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
The states quietly giving the federal government the finger and having the potential for secession is the backdrop against which the current outcry against systemic racial injustice is occurring, but it's not really on topic anyway. The local spasms of protest and police brutality are just that: local, albeit with national, state, and local policy that helped lead us to this point pretty much nationwide.
So why are we talking about secession--either de-facto or via tanks again?
Because we are looking at both parties for federal solutions, and the alternatives being presented are "White Power" versus "More cops."
Federal solutions for this problem are limited to things like guidance, funding, and weapons. Convince enough local people those funds/weapons/guidance are bullshit and the city or county can defund or abolish and those funds mean nothing.
This whole thing has been bottom up from the start. It's looking like hoping for top down assistance is completely in vain. So fuck 'em.
Way more than the civil war thing I think people balk at shit like californian secession because it feels... I mean, it feels elitist
Like, people constantly joke about how we should let the previous confederate states secede or kick out all the republican states or whatever the fuck, without considering that most of the people most heavily victimized by the GOP are the people living in those states
Like, most black people in america live in the south
It feels callous and self-centered to say "yeah fuck these poor people, I don't want them to be my problem anymore"
And that's not usually what's intended by that attitude but it's the unavoidable consequence of it.
About the only form of "secessionism" or "separatism" I have any sympathy for whatsoever is "we should give the land back to indigenous people"
I have no patience for moviebob horse shit
I'm late on this, but in addition to this, even if somehow you managed to just brush all that aside, technological progress has made it kind of an insane thing. Transportation and communications tech have vastly shrunk the world down from what previous generations would have considered it to be. We live in a time where community doesn't stop at the town or county border, but can be this vastly global thing.
Balkanization or secession, essentially, is a denial of the reality that humanity has been growing closer and closer together, and the borders and boundaries we create on a map are in very many ways been turned into a fiction constructed by the past.
As a citizen of Quebec, this is exactly the point I frequently get exhausted trying to get across to the many sovereignists I know.
I should note, as well, this doesn't mean it's impossible. Many political leaders I imagine probably think that if push came to shove, they could probably try it.
But it doesn't make it anymore insane as a path forward given the way humanity has come together into a more global community over the course of the 20th and 21st centuries.
It's like climate denial, but for folks who really goddamn love arbitrary lines on maps.
I think I remember there being a thought in the Democrats primary threads in Debate and Discuss that someone who was a DA or prosecuter or something would really "get Trump"
While of course putting heads in the sand about the Senate
Like Harris was hardass, didn't she throw actual kids in actual jail for skipping school?
I don't think we should try to ignore the very real national cultural impact that has stoked all of these flames. Just because these police forces are municipal does not mean that the people in them are not being manipulated by forces that are operating on a national level. Local news stations are owned by national conglomerates, your podunk right wing politicians are the beneficiaries of huge astroturfing operations. This is not a municipal problem, it is a national problem that is exerting power through municipal governments. All of this fostering of racism and fascism is happening because it is a path to power for a party that wants to control the federal government. Looking at what is going on and saying "it's about these isolated incidents we're upset about" is wrong. These isolated incidents are a handful of the most recent in an endless succession of atrocities that will continue until the root cause of the problem is addressed. And the root cause of the problem is that fostering all of humanity's most horrific tendencies is a brutally effective path to power in the system as it stands. George Floyd wasn't killed by one bad cop, he was killed by a national disease that is still killing countless others.
I live in California. I work FOR California. We had a $5 billion surplus in January and COVID-19 has given us a $55 billion deficit because the federal government refuses to provide any aid. All state workers are currently in negotiation for either furlough days each month or a 10% INDEFINITE paycut along with all the other cuts being made.
To even somewhat seriously debate the viability of this state surviving on its own without catastrophic, chaotic upheaval that leaves it a shell of its former self and population is fucking laughable.
The states quietly giving the federal government the finger and having the potential for secession is the backdrop against which the current outcry against systemic racial injustice is occurring, but it's not really on topic anyway. The local spasms of protest and police brutality are just that: local, albeit with national, state, and local policy that helped lead us to this point pretty much nationwide.
So why are we talking about secession--either de-facto or via tanks again?
How is something that is happening in literally every single state local?
The states quietly giving the federal government the finger and having the potential for secession is the backdrop against which the current outcry against systemic racial injustice is occurring, but it's not really on topic anyway. The local spasms of protest and police brutality are just that: local, albeit with national, state, and local policy that helped lead us to this point pretty much nationwide.
So why are we talking about secession--either de-facto or via tanks again?
How is something that is happening in literally every single state local?
A lot of this revolves around how power is distributed in the United States, and how that has made reform on multiple issues impossible while allowing intense local injustices to persist for generations. The conversation about multiple topics runs into "Can't do nothing. That's not the way the U.S. works."
Phillishere on
+1
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
Just so we're clear, I'm not saying Harris isn't in the running, but the people interviewed for that article is definitely her campaign/donors.
It isn't impossible that Biden would completely fuckup and pick her, but it isn't certain.
I hope you're right. I like how Harris can tear into people in cross examination, but that's not the same thing as wanting her in the Veep spot. She is the wrong person for the job right now. So is Biden, but it's too late to change that.
Posts
He could endorse no one
I've not endorsed anyone, it was easy. Most of us manage it.
And every time I see a liberal wringing their hands about in-fighting, I wonder what disadvantaged group is about to get the shaft from the Democrats.
Of all the things I expected to read this morning, they did not include alt future fucking fanfiction that smugly treats a repetition of one of the most horrible possible scenarios in a nation's history, a repeat of which would result in the death of hundreds of thousands or millions from food scarcity alone, as an inevitability that Americans can't see because they're simply too close to it
What the fuck is all of this?
It's a growing realization that the federal government's dysfunction is incredibly deep and impervious to reform. If either party had a credible path out of that, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
You know those articles written about the United States as if it was a foreign nation being covered by American journalists? Every one of them would be discussing the growing balkanization and overall stability of the American Empire.
I'm not sure why discussing what's actually happening and what it means becomes some great moral failing because it would not be a good thing. None of us think any of this is good, but the status quo is not holding.
It took me several readings of Wyborn’s post to realize they were talking about coastal secession and not Biden’s VP options
I'm not sure there's a really good choice fof Biden. I'd go with Rashida Tlaib, but I'd settle for Julian Castro.
{Twitter, Everybody's doing it. }{Writing and Story Blog}
As soon as he dropped out all his opinions seemed to move toward the center, but he's young and has nothing else going on.
{Twitter, Everybody's doing it. }{Writing and Story Blog}
This situation is not about the failrues of federalism
Lord God Christ in Heaven this is the biggest rawdog sideroad fuckarow imaginable—the situation right now is about municipal state enforcers who are obliterating civil liberties! Yes, electoralism is being more widely regarded as meaningfless, but people having a larger focus and plan of action devoted to state and municipal governance doesn't mean that we should expect the dissolution of the federal state!
People are dying. Black men are being lynched in the open. The United States is having another round of coming to terms with its history of atrocity, and that will be reflected in how people relate to the state, yes, but that doesn't mean this is an appropriate time to sit back and theorycraft about the dissolution of the union leading to the deaths of so many people that I can't even finish this fuckign sentence.
This is not the time for smug "ah, but isn't it interesting, and also inevitable?" bullshit. This moment is not about that. It is about George Floyd, and Breonna Taylor, and Robert Fuller, and Malcolm Harsch, and Rayschard Brooks!
Pack this ghoulish shit up for a little while, huh? Be in the moment
He will lose the election.
I'm not sure that this is actually the perception. I still think that there's a lot of faith that those wayward socialists will more or less fall in line, because being shot in the leg is still better than being shot in the chest.
If I had to guess, I would assume that Harris is more a question of optics than an attempt to shore up any specific support. Which is an attempt to shore up support in its own right, I suppose.
*there’s probably no pick that helps on the left, but maybe there’s a pick that helps with never trumpers? I don’t give a shit
Imma leave that typo in- seems appropriate when talking Biden
Like that's as far as that reflection will go. Democrats fucking kneeled in congress and thought it was good.
There are no picks that hurt with Never Trumpers. By definition, they have these votes.
And paradoxically, they're the only people they seem interested in courting. That's their entire fucking platform.
Edit: I guess there is one worst possible pick for running mate and it's Donald Trump. Wanna write some silly-ass dystopic fanfic, do this one. Trump/Pence v Biden/Trump 2020. Not As Unlikely As You Think(tm)!
Nobody said that
No but there has been talk of the necessity and inevitability of abandonment. And I think the topic has had a pretty inarguable tone of "hm hm fascinating" in a distant academic way a lot of folks are going to find incredibly distasteful
you need to step back and realize you are MovieBobbing right now
and also repeated requests to knock it the fuck off that are going completely ignored
http://www.audioentropy.com/
The idea that the only way the U.S. will devolve is through a cataclysmic end times war is just another symptom of American exceptionalism.
its fucking gross, especially coming from someone whos lectured US posters on not critiquing UK works because of their politics multiple times
I'm late on this, but in addition to this, even if somehow you managed to just brush all that aside, technological progress has made it kind of an insane thing. Transportation and communications tech have vastly shrunk the world down from what previous generations would have considered it to be. We live in a time where community doesn't stop at the town or county border, but can be this vastly global thing.
Balkanization or secession, essentially, is a denial of the reality that humanity has been growing closer and closer together, and the borders and boundaries we create on a map are in very many ways been turned into a fiction constructed by the past.
fuck off
I'm happy to drop it and I admit it was wrong to derail the conversation away from the important topic of BLM.
So why are we talking about secession--either de-facto or via tanks again?
Because we are looking at both parties for federal solutions, and the alternatives being presented are "White Power" versus "More cops."
I know it's not what people want to hear, but there is also a good chance that if the protests go too long, public opinion could turn and Harris might appeal to some folks. The promise to restore things back to "normal" from someone who has worked with law enforcement might sound super shitty right now, but in a few months, if things continue to escalate, it will absolutely appeal to some voters. I'll be honest, I just read the demand sheet of the Portland Maine BLM protests, and if they plan on protesting every night until that list is met, they will be out there until they are 100 years old and public sentiment will absolutely turn on them.
As a citizen of Quebec, this is exactly the point I frequently get exhausted trying to get across to the many sovereignists I know.
Federal solutions for this problem are limited to things like guidance, funding, and weapons. Convince enough local people those funds/weapons/guidance are bullshit and the city or county can defund or abolish and those funds mean nothing.
This whole thing has been bottom up from the start. It's looking like hoping for top down assistance is completely in vain. So fuck 'em.
I should note, as well, this doesn't mean it's impossible. Many political leaders I imagine probably think that if push came to shove, they could probably try it.
But it doesn't make it anymore insane as a path forward given the way humanity has come together into a more global community over the course of the 20th and 21st centuries.
It's like climate denial, but for folks who really goddamn love arbitrary lines on maps.
While of course putting heads in the sand about the Senate
Like Harris was hardass, didn't she throw actual kids in actual jail for skipping school?
To even somewhat seriously debate the viability of this state surviving on its own without catastrophic, chaotic upheaval that leaves it a shell of its former self and population is fucking laughable.
How is something that is happening in literally every single state local?
To an insane extent too. They just can't stop themselves, apparently. They're actually committed to escalation.
It isn't impossible that Biden would completely fuckup and pick her, but it isn't certain.
A lot of this revolves around how power is distributed in the United States, and how that has made reform on multiple issues impossible while allowing intense local injustices to persist for generations. The conversation about multiple topics runs into "Can't do nothing. That's not the way the U.S. works."
I hope you're right. I like how Harris can tear into people in cross examination, but that's not the same thing as wanting her in the Veep spot. She is the wrong person for the job right now. So is Biden, but it's too late to change that.