So far everyone here is being very reasonable in their discussion/impressions of the D4 systems as they've been presented to us so far. No one is freaking out or saying "oh god the game is doomed." If we want to talk about D4, this is really all we've got to go on right now so it makes sense to talk about it with what context we have.
And all of us who are true Blizzard fans of course know this game is years from release, so we know there's still a long way to go before the end (i.e., version 1.0).
I disagree on the number of viable builds for D3 because I don't think clearing GRift### is the be-all, end-all of enjoying the game. I don't play nearly as much as some of you, but I've still probably sunk a couple hundred hours into Seasonal play over the years, and I don't think I've ever once cared who or what is on top of the GRift ladders.
The unfortunate part is that even if you remove the leaderboards, grifts are still the only rewarding endgame due to the highest xp, most loot, and only source of gems.
Bounty materials are not nearly meaningful enough beyond a handful of extractions and the obligatory reroll, and torment/DB farming is really just the midgame.
I disagree on the number of viable builds for D3 because I don't think clearing GRift### is the be-all, end-all of enjoying the game. I don't play nearly as much as some of you, but I've still probably sunk a couple hundred hours into Seasonal play over the years, and I don't think I've ever once cared who or what is on top of the GRift ladders.
And yeah, that's probably normal. We're also years away from potential release and the devs have been pretty open about the whole dev process so I imagine they're also taking feedback.
Here's my thing on the whole D3/POE endgame grind, and that having actual goals you can power up to and achieve (and not just "get passed arbitrary point denoted by numbers") will keep people engaged for a while. PoE, for all its faults, has an exceptionally broad endgame. Whether it's executed well or not is up for debate, but there's got to be 20-25 endgame "bosses" and "grinds" of various different progressions to unlock over a lot of levels and most of the skills and tons of variations of each of those skills can do all of the content. Story mode is maybe 5% of the actual game.
I would love to see D4 do something like this, especially with the open world they're doing. I'd also like to see them put real effort into the Seasons and let people buy MTX items here in the states, to keep engagement going and keep the world fresh.
The unfortunate part is that even if you remove the leaderboards, grifts are still the only rewarding endgame due to the highest xp, most loot, and only source of gems.
That's true, but you don't have to be one of the two T1 builds to engage in that end game. Just because Set X caps out 10 GRift levels lower than Set Y doesn't make completing Set X and farming the end game with it a pointless endeavor if it's actually fun and engaging to play with.
The main thing I don't like about the three stat archetypes is that they really don't seem to mean anything. They're just arbitrary numbers that unlock arbitrary stat bonuses on gear. If there's a theme I can't see it. So I don't really see how it adds depth, rather it just makes it less likely that the gear you find is going to be usable by your character. Hopefully they can refine that idea a bit more.
D4 will already have vastly improved build variety over D3 if they just don't put huge power boosts onto set bonuses. IMO sets should give you an equivalent amount of power to using legendaries, but with some unique shift in play style that's unlocked by the set. D3 intentionally used sets to restrict build variety, probably because it's easier to balance when each class has just a few canonical play styles.
Oh, yes, I was thinking more along the lines of endgame activities than number of build options. Like, more activity options could justify more build options... but everything is (g)rifts.
But also true that lowering the GR level opens things up slightly. It could be more, but one skill has like no items and another does effectively 350 casts at once.
And now we’ve arrived back at my excitement for open-ended unique bonuses.
Bah I'm working three night shifts in a row starting on July 3rd. I might be able to start a character in the afternoon between shifts but no guarantees.
Bah I'm working three night shifts in a row starting on July 3rd. I might be able to start a character in the afternoon between shifts but no guarantees.
Aw bummer. Looks like Blizzard is back to scheduling season starts when you're busy.
So, I am reminded today that it is a very dear friends birthday July 3rd, so I will not be on for season start Friday as I had anticipated.
I will instead be out being social, you have my deepest apologies, but I will see everyone Saturday!
Be safe dude.
I find it weird they dropping it on the 4th of July weekend.
That sounds bad when I read that again in the current climate. I will not actually be "out" out. A small group of us, 7, who all work from home and have been socially distancing like crazy are meeting up for an in home birthday. No huge crowds, not actually out in public, and everyone involved has been isolated for months now. haha.
Bah I'm working three night shifts in a row starting on July 3rd. I might be able to start a character in the afternoon between shifts but no guarantees.
I am actually taking the entire week off because I am about to hit our PTO accrual cap. World events have canceled tons of my travel plans, so I have tons of PTO stacked up, so I have to use some so I don't lose it. So hey, I'll be on all day, all week. Since... there is no where to go. lol. So if you get logged in one afternoon ill be able to help you level!
On the topic of the D4 Dev Blog. I actually am most excited about the semi mmo open world aspect of the game. If you had taken D3's game play and made an MMO out of it I would have subbed in a heartbeat.
I don't like stat requirements for gear, its the part of playing PoE I enjoy least I think, but we'll see how it manages in D4.
If you are reading this add me.
D3: HexDex#1281, PSN: DireOtter, Live: DireOtter
I have no idea if they look good on anything else, but I don't think I'll ever play a WD without them.
Though, the weird "arm" wings from the season before last (I think?) already were pretty rad on WD.
I wish there were more actual wing wings. Like the falcon ones or whatever; iirc I got them from some random chest in Act IV. They're super cool, but more variants of that would be nice, and fewer of the bone-y necro/undead like wings.
According to a list I found the only currently obtainable wings I'm missing are the cosmic wings (someday...) and the wings for having Overwatch/Legion, and I don't see myself buying either of those for wings.
Two more days
I could see going Shadow/GoD DH, SWK/PoJ Monk, or LoD/Masq Necro... not sure.
Probably not monk I guess, but the mantras would be a decent bonus for HC grouping. DH and Necro are the new sets and both about due in my class rotation, so maybe one in HC and the other in standard.
I think I'm going with Crusader and my son DH since they have good Hadrig's this season. Although maybe I'll try Monk since they get the best Hadrigs of the bunch and I've not played one in a long long time.
Nintendo ID: Incindium
PSN: IncindiumX
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Custom SpecialI know I am, I'm sure I am,I'm Sounders 'til I die!Registered Userregular
I guess if we're starting HC, then I need to use the weekly challenge rift for gearing up that guy from the start?
Monk, DH, Crusader, and Barb are all great starts in this bunch. Jade wouldn’t be too bad either.
I feel like Might always gets so overlooked. It is one of the easiest starts of all. You can get your cube armor and ring from level one gambling, have decent odds at a usable 2h mighty weapon, and it barely needs anything else.
This season isn't increasing the stash tab cap, is it? Will 13 tabs still be the limit?
Yeah I think 13 is still the limit.
Honestly I can't remember now... Mainly since I don't buy more than a few tabs past the first page to dump junk in each season. Heck, I only keep the Primals now for my hoarding after the season ends. Legendary Gems are only kept if over 80. I really have to go and clean out my stash on my regular characters but just don't care enough to do it.
Yeah you want to do that for seasonal regardless of HC or not.
I meant debating whether for HC or normal character. But I guess you just do it for whatever character you make first to get them the head start?
I'll probably do the challenge for HC friday, then monday do it for SC to get them both a start. Since I pretty much filled out my cube slots last season on HC (minus 4 things for wizard and 1 for necro), I'm only going to cube things I'm actually going to use; and I still have a lot of work to do there on softcore, so I'll probably do most of my challenges after the first on SC until I fill up that list. I just want it so I have baseline access to all cube options off-season if I ever want to test things or just dork around.
I learned last season, starting fresh on HC is particularly not fun if you are also starting without a bag. Having to actually wait until 61+ to get DB's to upgrade your vendors means no chance at access to early level 70 gear to speed up leveling that first character, and probably starting with nothing at all in the cube to help out.
Both Necro and DH have pretty excellent starting potential this season though, both because of the new sets and buffs to other things. I was watching some Bluddshed stuff on Necro and it looks like they're (with the right builds at least) a lot more tanky without sacrificing any damage output, so actually viable for HC even if you're not doing rat runs.
I'll probably just end up flipping a coin to choose to start with DH or Necro on HC. I really can't decide. I think I'm leaning DH just because their new set seems a lot more ideal for farming, and that would be more useful as a starter for the season. EDIT: And even if it isn't, I really enjoy multishot, and that's going to work either way
So yeah, probably DH.
I think my main goal this season, at least on PC, is to unlock as many of the "secret" cosmetics as possible, and clean up the handful of non-multiplayer achievements I haven't done.
Also I wish I had access to more stash tabs. I'm a hoarder. I'll have 11 after this season, so two more to max out.
I got a bit mixed up with my last posts, I am working DAY shifts instead of nights this weekend.
So I will at least get to start friday night with everyone and play for a couple of hours. Maybe get to 70.
And then leech for gear at some point in the next few days when i have time :P
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Custom SpecialI know I am, I'm sure I am,I'm Sounders 'til I die!Registered Userregular
I'm taking the rest of the week off and planning on going on at launch on Friday, apparently as HC since that's what we're doing.
I started Necro at the end of last season but didn't really enjoy the builds I was finding, they all felt like they had super slow windup at the start of every activity if you didn't have your big cooldown available.
I mained Sader a lot previously, so I'm kind of looking forward to doing higher level Monk and Barb this season. Especially because I used to run whirlwind in D2 and now it's actually a good build!
I will 100% level a barb this season simply because WW is just silly. If I need to farm and also want to pay as little attention as absolutely possible, there isn't a better option.
Leaning Necro, DH is a very close second, but I could change my mind last second and go barb for reliable power (Whirlwind) or Wizard because Wiz is my comfort zone.
Leaning Necro, DH is a very close second, but I could change my mind last second and go barb for reliable power (Whirlwind) or Wizard because Wiz is my comfort zone.
I probably (almost definitely) won't be around right when the season goes live tomorrow, but I should be on later in the evening.
Then again, with Hamilton coming to Disney+ tomorrow, I know my wife wants to watch it at the same time as her family, so maybe we won't do our usual movie night and I'll be free. I guess I'll see.
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And all of us who are true Blizzard fans of course know this game is years from release, so we know there's still a long way to go before the end (i.e., version 1.0).
Bounty materials are not nearly meaningful enough beyond a handful of extractions and the obligatory reroll, and torment/DB farming is really just the midgame.
And yeah, that's probably normal. We're also years away from potential release and the devs have been pretty open about the whole dev process so I imagine they're also taking feedback.
Here's my thing on the whole D3/POE endgame grind, and that having actual goals you can power up to and achieve (and not just "get passed arbitrary point denoted by numbers") will keep people engaged for a while. PoE, for all its faults, has an exceptionally broad endgame. Whether it's executed well or not is up for debate, but there's got to be 20-25 endgame "bosses" and "grinds" of various different progressions to unlock over a lot of levels and most of the skills and tons of variations of each of those skills can do all of the content. Story mode is maybe 5% of the actual game.
I would love to see D4 do something like this, especially with the open world they're doing. I'd also like to see them put real effort into the Seasons and let people buy MTX items here in the states, to keep engagement going and keep the world fresh.
D4 will already have vastly improved build variety over D3 if they just don't put huge power boosts onto set bonuses. IMO sets should give you an equivalent amount of power to using legendaries, but with some unique shift in play style that's unlocked by the set. D3 intentionally used sets to restrict build variety, probably because it's easier to balance when each class has just a few canonical play styles.
But also true that lowering the GR level opens things up slightly. It could be more, but one skill has like no items and another does effectively 350 casts at once.
And now we’ve arrived back at my excitement for open-ended unique bonuses.
Aw bummer. Looks like Blizzard is back to scheduling season starts when you're busy.
Steam: betsuni7
That sounds bad when I read that again in the current climate. I will not actually be "out" out. A small group of us, 7, who all work from home and have been socially distancing like crazy are meeting up for an in home birthday. No huge crowds, not actually out in public, and everyone involved has been isolated for months now. haha.
I am actually taking the entire week off because I am about to hit our PTO accrual cap. World events have canceled tons of my travel plans, so I have tons of PTO stacked up, so I have to use some so I don't lose it. So hey, I'll be on all day, all week. Since... there is no where to go. lol. So if you get logged in one afternoon ill be able to help you level!
On the topic of the D4 Dev Blog. I actually am most excited about the semi mmo open world aspect of the game. If you had taken D3's game play and made an MMO out of it I would have subbed in a heartbeat.
I don't like stat requirements for gear, its the part of playing PoE I enjoy least I think, but we'll see how it manages in D4.
D3: HexDex#1281, PSN: DireOtter, Live: DireOtter
Make sure you enter a game with a character. Mine didn't show from the start page, but popped the achievement and wings when I entered a game.
Edit: Man, they look like a sea anemone with antlers...
Steam: betsuni7
Switch: SW-1493-0062-4053
I have no idea if they look good on anything else, but I don't think I'll ever play a WD without them.
Though, the weird "arm" wings from the season before last (I think?) already were pretty rad on WD.
I wish there were more actual wing wings. Like the falcon ones or whatever; iirc I got them from some random chest in Act IV. They're super cool, but more variants of that would be nice, and fewer of the bone-y necro/undead like wings.
According to a list I found the only currently obtainable wings I'm missing are the cosmic wings (someday...) and the wings for having Overwatch/Legion, and I don't see myself buying either of those for wings.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
I could see going Shadow/GoD DH, SWK/PoJ Monk, or LoD/Masq Necro... not sure.
Probably not monk I guess, but the mantras would be a decent bonus for HC grouping. DH and Necro are the new sets and both about due in my class rotation, so maybe one in HC and the other in standard.
Steam: betsuni7
D3: HexDex#1281, PSN: DireOtter, Live: DireOtter
Nintendo ID: Incindium
PSN: IncindiumX
Nintendo ID: Incindium
PSN: IncindiumX
I meant debating whether for HC or normal character. But I guess you just do it for whatever character you make first to get them the head start?
I feel like Might always gets so overlooked. It is one of the easiest starts of all. You can get your cube armor and ring from level one gambling, have decent odds at a usable 2h mighty weapon, and it barely needs anything else.
Yeah I think 13 is still the limit.
Honestly I can't remember now... Mainly since I don't buy more than a few tabs past the first page to dump junk in each season. Heck, I only keep the Primals now for my hoarding after the season ends. Legendary Gems are only kept if over 80. I really have to go and clean out my stash on my regular characters but just don't care enough to do it.
Steam: betsuni7
I'll probably do the challenge for HC friday, then monday do it for SC to get them both a start. Since I pretty much filled out my cube slots last season on HC (minus 4 things for wizard and 1 for necro), I'm only going to cube things I'm actually going to use; and I still have a lot of work to do there on softcore, so I'll probably do most of my challenges after the first on SC until I fill up that list. I just want it so I have baseline access to all cube options off-season if I ever want to test things or just dork around.
I learned last season, starting fresh on HC is particularly not fun if you are also starting without a bag. Having to actually wait until 61+ to get DB's to upgrade your vendors means no chance at access to early level 70 gear to speed up leveling that first character, and probably starting with nothing at all in the cube to help out.
Both Necro and DH have pretty excellent starting potential this season though, both because of the new sets and buffs to other things. I was watching some Bluddshed stuff on Necro and it looks like they're (with the right builds at least) a lot more tanky without sacrificing any damage output, so actually viable for HC even if you're not doing rat runs.
I'll probably just end up flipping a coin to choose to start with DH or Necro on HC. I really can't decide. I think I'm leaning DH just because their new set seems a lot more ideal for farming, and that would be more useful as a starter for the season. EDIT: And even if it isn't, I really enjoy multishot, and that's going to work either way
So yeah, probably DH.
I think my main goal this season, at least on PC, is to unlock as many of the "secret" cosmetics as possible, and clean up the handful of non-multiplayer achievements I haven't done.
Also I wish I had access to more stash tabs. I'm a hoarder. I'll have 11 after this season, so two more to max out.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
So I will at least get to start friday night with everyone and play for a couple of hours. Maybe get to 70.
And then leech for gear at some point in the next few days when i have time :P
I started Necro at the end of last season but didn't really enjoy the builds I was finding, they all felt like they had super slow windup at the start of every activity if you didn't have your big cooldown available.
I mained Sader a lot previously, so I'm kind of looking forward to doing higher level Monk and Barb this season. Especially because I used to run whirlwind in D2 and now it's actually a good build!
I will 100% level a barb this season simply because WW is just silly. If I need to farm and also want to pay as little attention as absolutely possible, there isn't a better option.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Leaning Necro, DH is a very close second, but I could change my mind last second and go barb for reliable power (Whirlwind) or Wizard because Wiz is my comfort zone.
We'll see!
You'll end up running Wiz and I'll run DH.
Steam: betsuni7
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
It looked fun last season, or was that the season before...
Steam: betsuni7
It’s still good. The frost hydra is especially fun.
Then again, with Hamilton coming to Disney+ tomorrow, I know my wife wants to watch it at the same time as her family, so maybe we won't do our usual movie night and I'll be free. I guess I'll see.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
[edit] seems to be live on PC. But not on PS4 or Switch.
[edit2] Consoles are 01:00 am Saturday morning.