okay so when you become a vampire, your soul goes wherever souls go, I guess, and a demon's soul, the actual vampire, moves in.
When you get your soul back, it suppresses the vampire spirit?
The demon got all of your memories and skills and stuff when they got your body? so they just act like an evil you, basically.
That's roughly how I define it with the series mythology (though I've had people push back hard against it before), with the exception that I'd say it's a brand new demon "soul" or consciousness being born into the host body instead of moving in from somewhere else.
The newborn has access to your memories, a desire to feed, and no moral compass. As for the rare cases where the human soul returns...
(Contains late series spoilers for Buffy/Angel)
The three cases we've seen have all treated it differently, but that seems to be because of their respective personalities.
Angel suppresses his demon side because he hates it and what it's done.
Spike essentially works in tandem with his demon side because they both want the same things and Spike is essentially what William wanted to be anyways.
Darla is a weird case since she's allegedly just feeling the effects of Connor's soul. She gains the moral compass and associated guilt/regret but nothing else. However, I'd say that would happen even if she really did get her real soul back, because it was already established the her memories from her human life are long gone, and so even the return of her human personality would only have the memories of the time as a vampire to draw on.
the correct answer to the spike vs. angel debate is faith, I will not be taking any questions
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
If someone had asked me "has Zonugal seen Buffy" my answer would have been "fuckin' of course, nerds, no I've never met him why is that relevant shut up"
Angel is much better in his own show, where he isn’t tied down in the Buffy Romance. He’s a much more fun, dorky character. And surrounded by a cast that very quickly, and consistently, calls him on his shit.
I think my favorite season of Buffy and Angel is Angel season 2. And that very much is an Angel among equals and coworkers story.
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DepressperadoI just wanted to see you laughingin the pizza rainRegistered Userregular
edited June 2020
that was actually the correct answer, you passed this pop quiz!
Angel had his soul returned because he was cruel and evil (and kinda dumb). it was a punishment. an effective one, definitely, but he didn't learn anything besides a Masterclass in Brooding from it.
Spike, as a soulless vampire, actively seeks out exotic trials and earns his soul back, out of a love that even being a demon couldn't ruin. It's not a punishment, it's his reward.
also
"I love you."
"No you don't, but thanks for saying it."
The thing about Spike
is that while that was an accurate description of what he did to get his soul back you kind of left out that he tries to rape Buffy because love absolutely was ruined by him being a vampire and that getting his soul back ends up revealed to be every but the punishment Angel got. Because as a consequence he learned that Buffy could never love him because of what he did.
There's a rumor that CBS All Access is currently developing a live-action adaptation of The Last Ronin, the upcoming TMNT miniseries comic
In a future New York City far different from the one we know today, a lone surviving Turtle goes on a seemingly hopeless mission to obtain justice for his fallen family and friends.
There's a rumor that CBS All Access is currently developing a live-action adaptation of The Last Ronin, the upcoming TMNT miniseries comic
In a future New York City far different from the one we know today, a lone surviving Turtle goes on a seemingly hopeless mission to obtain justice for his fallen family and friends.
There was an episode of CBB where a Shaun Diston character pitched literally this
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Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
I've yet to work a writers room that hasn't mentioned Buffy at least once a week.
I can't really speak to its impact on audiences, but its impact on folks who make television is near-impossible to overstate
I guess when I think of cultural touchstones I think of Star Wars, Star Trek, Jurassic Park, Harry Potter, Loony Tunes, Scooby Doo, the collective MCU, Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, ect...
I'm not terribly overwhelmed with mentions of Buffy the Vampire Slayer in my day to day life.
That isn't to say it isn't very influential. I can buy that its approach to dialogue is likely its strongest legacy.
I've yet to work a writers room that hasn't mentioned Buffy at least once a week.
I can't really speak to its impact on audiences, but its impact on folks who make television is near-impossible to overstate
Im watching the CW arrowverse stuff right now, they're all flavors of buffy. Like very clearly. All of our monster of the week, procedural programming that we've got a glut of is basically rooted in the writing of buffy and angel. They're foundational to large swaths of the programming produced in the last 20 years.
I've yet to work a writers room that hasn't mentioned Buffy at least once a week.
I can't really speak to its impact on audiences, but its impact on folks who make television is near-impossible to overstate
I guess when I think of cultural touchstones I think of Star Wars, Star Trek, Jurassic Park, Harry Potter, Loony Tunes, Scooby Doo, the collective MCU, Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, ect...
I'm not terribly overwhelmed with mentions of Buffy the Vampire Slayer in my day to day life.
That isn't to say it isn't very influential. I can buy that its approach to dialogue is likely its strongest legacy.
Movies are a different beast than TV (for better or worse)
By the framework of "cultural touchstone" that you present, I'm not sure there has ever been a TV show that hits that level. Movies travel globally, serve as fixed points in time, in a way that TV, iterative and evolving by design, doesn't.
TV can influence other TV, but you're never gonna hear Greta Gerwig be like, "Yeah, I was really inspired by what HBO's doing right now" when promoting a movie. So when Buffy is pointed to as a cultural touchstone, I think there's invisible tag of, "...For TV"
I've yet to work a writers room that hasn't mentioned Buffy at least once a week.
I can't really speak to its impact on audiences, but its impact on folks who make television is near-impossible to overstate
I guess when I think of cultural touchstones I think of Star Wars, Star Trek, Jurassic Park, Harry Potter, Loony Tunes, Scooby Doo, the collective MCU, Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, ect...
I'm not terribly overwhelmed with mentions of Buffy the Vampire Slayer in my day to day life.
That isn't to say it isn't very influential. I can buy that its approach to dialogue is likely its strongest legacy.
When it was airing and ever since it had that cult classic feel where if you were in a certain kind of crowd you could reference it as easy as any of those. It’s a goth/punk touchstone.
I can't say if Buffy the Vampire Slayer is catching on with younger audiences the way that say, the Office has, but it's undeniably had a huge impact on pop culture, especially. You can trace back so many shows to what they did on Buffy and Angel. It's deeply ingrained into fan culture, at the very least, whether or not anyone just jumping in now realizes it or not
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HacksawJ. Duggan Esq.Wrestler at LawRegistered Userregular
I've yet to work a writers room that hasn't mentioned Buffy at least once a week.
I can't really speak to its impact on audiences, but its impact on folks who make television is near-impossible to overstate
I guess when I think of cultural touchstones I think of Star Wars, Star Trek, Jurassic Park, Harry Potter, Loony Tunes, Scooby Doo, the collective MCU, Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, ect...
I'm not terribly overwhelmed with mentions of Buffy the Vampire Slayer in my day to day life.
That isn't to say it isn't very influential. I can buy that its approach to dialogue is likely its strongest legacy.
Movies are a different beast than TV (for better or worse)
By the framework of "cultural touchstone" that you present, I'm not sure there has ever been a TV show that hits that level. Movies travel globally, serve as fixed points in time, in a way that TV, iterative and evolving by design, doesn't.
TV can influence other TV, but you're never gonna hear Greta Gerwig be like, "Yeah, I was really inspired by what HBO's doing right now" when promoting a movie. So when Buffy is pointed to as a cultural touchstone, I think there's invisible tag of, "...For TV"
I guess I'm perhaps getting caught up on maybe a distinction between something being a "cultural touchstone" as opposed to a "generational touchstone"?
And is there room within such distinction for something to be highly influential without it being a touchstone?
For example, folks have been pointing to Buffy as being highly influential on CW shows like the Arrowverse, which I can definitely see.
But if you asked me what is the biggest influence on Arrow, its Lost, not Buffy (The Flash is far more like Buffy than anything else though).
I guess I am perhaps also being clouded in my approach to this because I grew up with other highly syndicated fantasy/action television shows in the 90's, so Buffy doesn't immediately jump out to me as strong as a touchstone as it might.
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Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
Also, I think TV show franchises like Loony Tunes, Scooby Doo, and Star Trek have as much a claim to cultural touchstone as films.
I don't really know what the difference is between a "generational touchstone" and a "cultural touchstone," and I also don't know that it particularly matters
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HacksawJ. Duggan Esq.Wrestler at LawRegistered Userregular
Loony Toons is literally the reason I thought "nimrod" was slang for "moron" and not an actual sarcastic jab Bugs Bunny was making against Elmer Fudd vis a vis his aptitude (or lack thereof) for hunting. If that doesn't make it a touchstone, nothing is a touchstone.
Posts
Spike is a classic Vegeta, he's great.
Meanwhile Angel is a pedophile who can't have an orgasm or he'll become evil.
That said, I am enjoying the first season of Angel and its continued transformation of Angel into a dorkus diet-Batman.
That's roughly how I define it with the series mythology (though I've had people push back hard against it before), with the exception that I'd say it's a brand new demon "soul" or consciousness being born into the host body instead of moving in from somewhere else.
The newborn has access to your memories, a desire to feed, and no moral compass. As for the rare cases where the human soul returns...
(Contains late series spoilers for Buffy/Angel)
Angel suppresses his demon side because he hates it and what it's done.
Spike essentially works in tandem with his demon side because they both want the same things and Spike is essentially what William wanted to be anyways.
Darla is a weird case since she's allegedly just feeling the effects of Connor's soul. She gains the moral compass and associated guilt/regret but nothing else. However, I'd say that would happen even if she really did get her real soul back, because it was already established the her memories from her human life are long gone, and so even the return of her human personality would only have the memories of the time as a vampire to draw on.
Spike's impersonation of Angel in the third episode was when I went, "Yeah, alright, this show could be okay"
I'm a big fan of Angel pulling out a grappling gun and then just failing to use it at all in the episode where he first meets Kate.
Be ready for other Lost cast members to have much bigger roles.
I absolutely did!
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Technically Billy Idol looks like him
He's that art nerd from high school who starts partying and turns into a punk except his high school was the 1870s
Although I like Angelus better than Angel too
drunk lovesick Spike is also tops.
Angel is much better in his own show, where he isn’t tied down in the Buffy Romance. He’s a much more fun, dorky character. And surrounded by a cast that very quickly, and consistently, calls him on his shit.
I think my favorite season of Buffy and Angel is Angel season 2. And that very much is an Angel among equals and coworkers story.
edit: his dancing, the demon karaoke club!
I grew up watching a lot of it, in a second-hand manner, as a result of my younger sister watching it all the time.
But I never watched it all the way through.
The thing about Spike
I’m very curious to see if this recent much needed cultural shift will end Buffy as a cultural touchstone.
I think it's a generational one, maybe.
I've yet to work a writers room that hasn't mentioned Buffy at least once a week.
I can't really speak to its impact on audiences, but its impact on folks who make television is near-impossible to overstate
I don't watch Dark, Netflix.
I watch K-On.
Send me targeted emails about a high school band singing about pens.
Steam
There was an episode of CBB where a Shaun Diston character pitched literally this
I guess when I think of cultural touchstones I think of Star Wars, Star Trek, Jurassic Park, Harry Potter, Loony Tunes, Scooby Doo, the collective MCU, Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, ect...
I'm not terribly overwhelmed with mentions of Buffy the Vampire Slayer in my day to day life.
That isn't to say it isn't very influential. I can buy that its approach to dialogue is likely its strongest legacy.
Im watching the CW arrowverse stuff right now, they're all flavors of buffy. Like very clearly. All of our monster of the week, procedural programming that we've got a glut of is basically rooted in the writing of buffy and angel. They're foundational to large swaths of the programming produced in the last 20 years.
Movies are a different beast than TV (for better or worse)
By the framework of "cultural touchstone" that you present, I'm not sure there has ever been a TV show that hits that level. Movies travel globally, serve as fixed points in time, in a way that TV, iterative and evolving by design, doesn't.
TV can influence other TV, but you're never gonna hear Greta Gerwig be like, "Yeah, I was really inspired by what HBO's doing right now" when promoting a movie. So when Buffy is pointed to as a cultural touchstone, I think there's invisible tag of, "...For TV"
When it was airing and ever since it had that cult classic feel where if you were in a certain kind of crowd you could reference it as easy as any of those. It’s a goth/punk touchstone.
Or was.
Let me just say, I am ready for Screaming Man Ethan Hawke. This absolutely looks like the perfect series for this moment in time.
I guess I'm perhaps getting caught up on maybe a distinction between something being a "cultural touchstone" as opposed to a "generational touchstone"?
And is there room within such distinction for something to be highly influential without it being a touchstone?
For example, folks have been pointing to Buffy as being highly influential on CW shows like the Arrowverse, which I can definitely see.
But if you asked me what is the biggest influence on Arrow, its Lost, not Buffy (The Flash is far more like Buffy than anything else though).
I guess I am perhaps also being clouded in my approach to this because I grew up with other highly syndicated fantasy/action television shows in the 90's, so Buffy doesn't immediately jump out to me as strong as a touchstone as it might.