Yeah I would KILL to have all of the stories interconnect in some meaningful way. That would have been the best. Hopefully Octopath Traveler 2 does exactly that.
The interconnection that's there is half hidden until the postgame and it's all in their backstories. It definitely needed more of that, and it should all come up in the main plot. Postgame should really be unrelated to the main story.
I think people underestimate the programming complexity of allowing players to pick up all 8 party members in any order, or even decide to never pick up one or more of them, while still interweaving complex storylines among all members. Obviously they prioritized player choice and freedom, in some ways like a traditional JRPG interpretation of an open world game. The matrix you have to put together for who is present for what scenes at what time, while attempting to preserve that freedom, grows exponentially.
I realize the game could've been designed entirely differently, first you start with Olberic and then he travels and finds Primrose, leading you around by the nose. They could railroad you into picking up each character at the right time to weave them into the next story, while preventing the player from traveling other paths ("the king has ordered this bridge blocked") so you can't get to places you're not meant to be yet.
But to me that game would just be Dragon Quest. I really valued the ability to choose my path. Heck I fled from high level enemies to explore late game towns early. I had a little bit of a different experience than anyone else did and the central conceit of the game, 8 paths to explore, made it feel different from other games.
I remember really enjoying Quest 64. It was (I think) my first experience with the blend of RPG mechanics and live-controlled battles where you could dodge the enemy's attacks, etc. Certainly wasn't the first game to do it, but it was the first one I played.
I think Quest 64 was mostly bad in comparison to games like FF7, a comparison invited by the N64 having very few RPGs. It was nearly all there was so it ended up on more of a wet fart pedestal than it deserved.
People make smaller budget games these days of a similar relative quality level, and they find their audience. On a system where I can play Xenoblade 2, I've also played and enjoyed Cat Quest. I suppose those tend to be $10, though.
Yeah I would KILL to have all of the stories interconnect in some meaningful way. That would have been the best. Hopefully Octopath Traveler 2 does exactly that.
The interconnection that's there is half hidden until the postgame and it's all in their backstories. It definitely needed more of that, and it should all come up in the main plot. Postgame should really be unrelated to the main story.
I think people underestimate the programming complexity of allowing players to pick up all 8 party members in any order, or even decide to never pick up one or more of them, while still interweaving complex storylines among all members. Obviously they prioritized player choice and freedom, in some ways like a traditional JRPG interpretation of an open world game. The matrix you have to put together for who is present for what scenes at what time, while attempting to preserve that freedom, grows exponentially.
I realize the game could've been designed entirely differently, first you start with Olberic and then he travels and finds Primrose, leading you around by the nose. They could railroad you into picking up each character at the right time to weave them into the next story, while preventing the player from traveling other paths ("the king has ordered this bridge blocked") so you can't get to places you're not meant to be yet.
But to me that game would just be Dragon Quest. I really valued the ability to choose my path. Heck I fled from high level enemies to explore late game towns early. I had a little bit of a different experience than anyone else did and the central conceit of the game, 8 paths to explore, made it feel different from other games.
...you do realize that several of us are programmers, right? :rotate:
Yes, while it would be difficult, it wouldn't be impossible. It requires tight planning, and figuring out what story components to generalize vs. what's specific for each character, but it could certainly be done.
What I find interesting about Quest 64 is that its failings are mostly in the design space rather than the implementation. The dungeons are agonizingly long and all textured the same way, so it's easy to get lost when the camera slam-pans to align you with a formation of enemies. You can't buy items, so if you run out, you're just hosed if you can't make it with the couple of freebies they'll give you if you're completely out. Some magic elements are worthless while others are game-breaking. There's hardly a plot.
But it controls fairly well. It doesn't eat inputs. The premise of having full control over your elemental distribution and learning new spells as you go is great. The game has a nice visual design for the Nintendo 64 era. It really feels like there was a good game in there; it just failed to reach its potential. (Maybe some enterprising team could romhack it into worthiness?) I think that's what's made it endure as a beloved bad game-- you can really feel how it was almost good.
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
Yeah I would KILL to have all of the stories interconnect in some meaningful way. That would have been the best. Hopefully Octopath Traveler 2 does exactly that.
The interconnection that's there is half hidden until the postgame and it's all in their backstories. It definitely needed more of that, and it should all come up in the main plot. Postgame should really be unrelated to the main story.
I think people underestimate the programming complexity of allowing players to pick up all 8 party members in any order, or even decide to never pick up one or more of them, while still interweaving complex storylines among all members. Obviously they prioritized player choice and freedom, in some ways like a traditional JRPG interpretation of an open world game. The matrix you have to put together for who is present for what scenes at what time, while attempting to preserve that freedom, grows exponentially.
I realize the game could've been designed entirely differently, first you start with Olberic and then he travels and finds Primrose, leading you around by the nose. They could railroad you into picking up each character at the right time to weave them into the next story, while preventing the player from traveling other paths ("the king has ordered this bridge blocked") so you can't get to places you're not meant to be yet.
But to me that game would just be Dragon Quest. I really valued the ability to choose my path. Heck I fled from high level enemies to explore late game towns early. I had a little bit of a different experience than anyone else did and the central conceit of the game, 8 paths to explore, made it feel different from other games.
...you do realize that several of us are programmers, right? :rotate:
Yes, while it would be difficult, it wouldn't be impossible. It requires tight planning, and figuring out what story components to generalize vs. what's specific for each character, but it could certainly be done.
Yes, and so am I. I never said it was impossible, just that it was difficult with their stated goals, and then went on to say I liked the way it was laid out as it was. I don't think it would've been worth the effort because the game was great.
For some reason, Skies of Arcadia managed to scratch the itch that I had for a Quest 64 sequel. I think it might have been related to the low camera angles?
For some reason, Skies of Arcadia managed to scratch the itch that I had for a Quest 64 sequel. I think it might have been related to the low camera angles?
Now this game I had always hoped would be remade for the 3DS.
For some reason, Skies of Arcadia managed to scratch the itch that I had for a Quest 64 sequel. I think it might have been related to the low camera angles?
My favorite part of Arcadia was how critical hits would play an animation where a character/enemy got knocked down and then got back up. If it killed them, they would fall over, get back up, and dust themselves off, and then super dramatically fall over again.
My favorite part of Skies of Arcadia for Dreamcast was it had an audio track for if you put the game in a CD player. It was Vyse saying something about getting back to a Dreamcast so they could finish their job, IIRC
My favorite part of Skies of Arcadia for Dreamcast was it had an audio track for if you put the game in a CD player. It was Vyse saying something about getting back to a Dreamcast so they could finish their job, IIRC
I miss that hidden shit in games. SotN had Alucard admonishing you for trying to blow up your speakers, pretty sure Warcraft 2 did as well.
My favorite part of Skies of Arcadia for Dreamcast was it had an audio track for if you put the game in a CD player. It was Vyse saying something about getting back to a Dreamcast so they could finish their job, IIRC
I miss that hidden shit in games. SotN had Alucard admonishing you for trying to blow up your speakers, pretty sure Warcraft 2 did as well.
Why would Warcraft 2 have Alucard doing the part?
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
Maybe for you? I wouldn’t have beat it back when it came out if I wasn’t having fun. The elemental spell stuff was neat
The way leveling worked and unlocked spells was interesting, but I think my favorite bit in that game was that everybody knew you were on a quest to save the world so they filled up your items and let you stay in inns for free.
Maybe for you? I wouldn’t have beat it back when it came out if I wasn’t having fun. The elemental spell stuff was neat
Is it just me, or were water and earth way better than fire and air?
That's the consensus basically everywhere. Water had the game's only healing magic (except for the Fire spell that made your staff drain HP, but the economics on that don't work out), and Earth had a spell that made you flatly invulnerable for multiple turns, plus an AoE attack with so many hits it was also a viable single-target attack, too. Picking Earth and Water was pretty much essential for beating the game on any reasonable time-scale.
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Night Trap has a really weird one where you hear a phone ringing, "Good afternoon, Digital Pictures", then some weird cultist chanting.
It was easy to find that stuff, since Sega CD games usually booted to the CD player before launching the game.
If you pick up Bioshock collection for the switch make sure you save on multiple slots the thing has a nasty habit of crashing when you try to save the game and it's cost me my save file twice.
Octopath sounded awesome on paper but really failed in execution. The whole conceit of the game was the idea of these 8 characters interweaving and, as has been said ad-nauseum, it doesn't do any of that (until post-game). Beyond that it's literally just a run of the mill jrpg with a couple of redundant in-world abilities your characters can use once per-town.
It's just completely rote as an experience despite presenting itself as something unique.
Yeah I would KILL to have all of the stories interconnect in some meaningful way. That would have been the best. Hopefully Octopath Traveler 2 does exactly that.
Sixteenpath Traveler?
I think they're supposed to be squared right? Sixtyfourthpath Traveler. I don't understand the logistics.
No, it's obviously a factorial situation (8*7*6*5*4*3*2*1). So it should be Forty Thousand Three Hundred and Twentiethpath Traveler.
I mean, this is a JPRG.
Yeah I would KILL to have all of the stories interconnect in some meaningful way. That would have been the best. Hopefully Octopath Traveler 2 does exactly that.
Sixteenpath Traveler?
I think they're supposed to be squared right? Sixtyfourthpath Traveler. I don't understand the logistics.
No, it's obviously a factorial situation (8*7*6*5*4*3*2*1). So it should be Forty Thousand Three Hundred and Twentieth Traveler.
I mean, this is a JPRG.
And you'd barely scratch the surface on how many battles you need to grind!
Maybe for you? I wouldn’t have beat it back when it came out if I wasn’t having fun. The elemental spell stuff was neat
I had to restart my game once because I chose Wind and Fire and didn't realize they had healing. I still got pretty far otherwise. The game would have been better with a respec option.
I still really enjoyed the game. Thinking about firing it up again soon.
Has anyone here bought the flip grip? I sort of want one to go with my pinball but was wondering how secure they are in terms of how well the system and Joy Cons click in.
It works great. The system and the Joy Con lock in firmly and don't move around at all.
Thanks, I ordered one. Any recommendations on non Zen Pinball games that play nice with it? I have Downwell but I can't find a game list more updated than Feb 2019.
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
Yeah I would KILL to have all of the stories interconnect in some meaningful way. That would have been the best. Hopefully Octopath Traveler 2 does exactly that.
The interconnection that's there is half hidden until the postgame and it's all in their backstories. It definitely needed more of that, and it should all come up in the main plot. Postgame should really be unrelated to the main story.
I think people underestimate the programming complexity of allowing players to pick up all 8 party members in any order, or even decide to never pick up one or more of them, while still interweaving complex storylines among all members. Obviously they prioritized player choice and freedom, in some ways like a traditional JRPG interpretation of an open world game. The matrix you have to put together for who is present for what scenes at what time, while attempting to preserve that freedom, grows exponentially.
I realize the game could've been designed entirely differently, first you start with Olberic and then he travels and finds Primrose, leading you around by the nose. They could railroad you into picking up each character at the right time to weave them into the next story, while preventing the player from traveling other paths ("the king has ordered this bridge blocked") so you can't get to places you're not meant to be yet.
But to me that game would just be Dragon Quest. I really valued the ability to choose my path. Heck I fled from high level enemies to explore late game towns early. I had a little bit of a different experience than anyone else did and the central conceit of the game, 8 paths to explore, made it feel different from other games.
I mean other games deal with characters being there and not being there. You can have alternate interactions in various places based on who is there. It's not like this is something unprecedented. If they chose to make a game using this set up they really should have taken the extra step have the narrative actually make sense with the various characters.
Has anyone here bought the flip grip? I sort of want one to go with my pinball but was wondering how secure they are in terms of how well the system and Joy Cons click in.
It works great. The system and the Joy Con lock in firmly and don't move around at all.
Thanks, I ordered one. Any recommendations on non Zen Pinball games that play nice with it? I have Downwell but I can't find a game list more updated than Feb 2019.
The first thing that leapt to mind was Ikaruga, which I then saw mentioned in Gamespot's review of the Flip Grip. So that alone!
It never occurred to me that it was viable to play Octopath without collecting everyone, but looks like you can beat it with every character individually. I’m suddenly interested to pick this game up again.
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
I tried taking a break from Ghosts to try Octopath again.
It's permanently dead to me at this point. I don't remember what I was doing, the old timey speech - which I really fucking hate for a myriad of reasons - annoyed me in less than 5 minutes and I just didn't want to play it while Ghosts of Tsushima or Paper Mario were sitting there being like "You want a good time?"
So, I got an email earlier today that Ring Fit Adventure was back in stock. Was that the one everybody was raving about when this whole pandemic semi-quarantine stuff really got going?
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
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BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
So, I got an email earlier today that Ring Fit Adventure was back in stock. Was that the one everybody was raving about when this whole pandemic semi-quarantine stuff really got going?
Yeah, it comes in waves. We managed to find one at Target.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
So, I got an email earlier today that Ring Fit Adventure was back in stock. Was that the one everybody was raving about when this whole pandemic semi-quarantine stuff really got going?
Yeah, it comes in waves. We managed to find one at Target.
Oh cool...as soon as I saw it, I put in an order and was wondering if I maybe made a mistake. The notice I got was for Best Buy, and when I just checked, they were still listed as in stock (in case anybody was looking for it).
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
I tried taking a break from Ghosts to try Octopath again.
It's permanently dead to me at this point. I don't remember what I was doing, the old timey speech - which I really fucking hate for a myriad of reasons - annoyed me in less than 5 minutes and I just didn't want to play it while Ghosts of Tsushima or Paper Mario were sitting there being like "You want a good time?"
The old timey speech is literally one character. It's bad, but... yeah, none of the other characters talk like that. The rest use modern English, with some being outright snarky.
RE: linked stories, the problem is really just about doing checks and setting flags, which is inherent to story driven games anyway. Is X character in the party? Have they reached Y milestone? If so, do the thing (extra dialogue, cutscene, whatever). The 'hard' part is slicing up the narrative so that it makes sense, but even that's not too difficult. The overarching story is the same regardless of who's in the party. It's the character connections
Like Graham Crossford saving Alfyn and being the main enemy of H'annit's story after turning into Redeye
That needs to be separated out. But it's totally doable, and, really, should've been done, with Lyblac's stuff actually being the driving force behind the game rather than shunted off into a post-game quest and left to be, essentially, trivia.
Given that the game asks you to play through every party member's prologue anyway (skipable, but still), there's no real added difficulty in the "pick anyone to start" aspect of the design.
I tried taking a break from Ghosts to try Octopath again.
It's permanently dead to me at this point. I don't remember what I was doing, the old timey speech - which I really fucking hate for a myriad of reasons - annoyed me in less than 5 minutes and I just didn't want to play it while Ghosts of Tsushima or Paper Mario were sitting there being like "You want a good time?"
The old timey speech is literally one character.
Wait, so I've made the game as painful as possible by picking this one terribly written character?!?!
Edit: Or have I missed an optional thing to change the dialog style somewhere to something actually bearable?
I tried taking a break from Ghosts to try Octopath again.
It's permanently dead to me at this point. I don't remember what I was doing, the old timey speech - which I really fucking hate for a myriad of reasons - annoyed me in less than 5 minutes and I just didn't want to play it while Ghosts of Tsushima or Paper Mario were sitting there being like "You want a good time?"
The old timey speech is literally one character. It's bad, but... yeah, none of the other characters talk like that. The rest use modern English, with some being outright snarky.
RE: linked stories, the problem is really just about doing checks and setting flags, which is inherent to story driven games anyway. Is X character in the party? Have they reached Y milestone? If so, do the thing (extra dialogue, cutscene, whatever). The 'hard' part is slicing up the narrative so that it makes sense, but even that's not too difficult. The overarching story is the same regardless of who's in the party. It's the character connections
Like Graham Crossford saving Alfyn and being the main enemy of H'annit's story after turning into Redeye
That needs to be separated out. But it's totally doable, and, really, should've been done, with Lyblac's stuff actually being the driving force behind the game rather than shunted off into a post-game quest and left to be, essentially, trivia.
Given that the game asks you to play through every party member's prologue anyway (skipable, but still), there's no real added difficulty in the "pick anyone to start" aspect of the design.
Yeah, I don't think any of this is an actual programming issue, but more laziness on the part of the writing team.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
I tried taking a break from Ghosts to try Octopath again.
It's permanently dead to me at this point. I don't remember what I was doing, the old timey speech - which I really fucking hate for a myriad of reasons - annoyed me in less than 5 minutes and I just didn't want to play it while Ghosts of Tsushima or Paper Mario were sitting there being like "You want a good time?"
The old timey speech is literally one character.
Wait, so I've made the game as painful as possible by picking this one terribly written character?!?!
Edit: Or have I missed an optional thing to change the dialog style somewhere to something actually bearable?
It's only H'aanit and her village that talk the powerfully affected old-timey way. Everyone else talks normally.
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
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Selling Board Games for Medical Bills
I think people underestimate the programming complexity of allowing players to pick up all 8 party members in any order, or even decide to never pick up one or more of them, while still interweaving complex storylines among all members. Obviously they prioritized player choice and freedom, in some ways like a traditional JRPG interpretation of an open world game. The matrix you have to put together for who is present for what scenes at what time, while attempting to preserve that freedom, grows exponentially.
I realize the game could've been designed entirely differently, first you start with Olberic and then he travels and finds Primrose, leading you around by the nose. They could railroad you into picking up each character at the right time to weave them into the next story, while preventing the player from traveling other paths ("the king has ordered this bridge blocked") so you can't get to places you're not meant to be yet.
But to me that game would just be Dragon Quest. I really valued the ability to choose my path. Heck I fled from high level enemies to explore late game towns early. I had a little bit of a different experience than anyone else did and the central conceit of the game, 8 paths to explore, made it feel different from other games.
I think Quest 64 was mostly bad in comparison to games like FF7, a comparison invited by the N64 having very few RPGs. It was nearly all there was so it ended up on more of a wet fart pedestal than it deserved.
People make smaller budget games these days of a similar relative quality level, and they find their audience. On a system where I can play Xenoblade 2, I've also played and enjoyed Cat Quest. I suppose those tend to be $10, though.
...you do realize that several of us are programmers, right? :rotate:
Yes, while it would be difficult, it wouldn't be impossible. It requires tight planning, and figuring out what story components to generalize vs. what's specific for each character, but it could certainly be done.
But it controls fairly well. It doesn't eat inputs. The premise of having full control over your elemental distribution and learning new spells as you go is great. The game has a nice visual design for the Nintendo 64 era. It really feels like there was a good game in there; it just failed to reach its potential. (Maybe some enterprising team could romhack it into worthiness?) I think that's what's made it endure as a beloved bad game-- you can really feel how it was almost good.
It was never fun to play Quest 64. ☹️
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Yes, and so am I. I never said it was impossible, just that it was difficult with their stated goals, and then went on to say I liked the way it was laid out as it was. I don't think it would've been worth the effort because the game was great.
Now this game I had always hoped would be remade for the 3DS.
Selling Board Games for Medical Bills
My favorite part of Arcadia was how critical hits would play an animation where a character/enemy got knocked down and then got back up. If it killed them, they would fall over, get back up, and dust themselves off, and then super dramatically fall over again.
I miss that hidden shit in games. SotN had Alucard admonishing you for trying to blow up your speakers, pretty sure Warcraft 2 did as well.
Why would Warcraft 2 have Alucard doing the part?
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Maybe for you? I wouldn’t have beat it back when it came out if I wasn’t having fun. The elemental spell stuff was neat
XBL - Foreverender | 3DS FC - 1418 6696 1012 | Steam ID | LoL
The way leveling worked and unlocked spells was interesting, but I think my favorite bit in that game was that everybody knew you were on a quest to save the world so they filled up your items and let you stay in inns for free.
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Are you me?
Cause i did extra chores for weeks to save up for this game and then spent like a week depressed cause the game was kind of poop.
Quest 64 did and still feels like a game that was not finished.
Is it just me, or were water and earth way better than fire and air?
That's the consensus basically everywhere. Water had the game's only healing magic (except for the Fire spell that made your staff drain HP, but the economics on that don't work out), and Earth had a spell that made you flatly invulnerable for multiple turns, plus an AoE attack with so many hits it was also a viable single-target attack, too. Picking Earth and Water was pretty much essential for beating the game on any reasonable time-scale.
It was easy to find that stuff, since Sega CD games usually booted to the CD player before launching the game.
It's just completely rote as an experience despite presenting itself as something unique.
No, it's obviously a factorial situation (8*7*6*5*4*3*2*1). So it should be Forty Thousand Three Hundred and Twentiethpath Traveler.
I mean, this is a JPRG.
And you'd barely scratch the surface on how many battles you need to grind!
I had to restart my game once because I chose Wind and Fire and didn't realize they had healing. I still got pretty far otherwise. The game would have been better with a respec option.
I still really enjoyed the game. Thinking about firing it up again soon.
Thanks, I ordered one. Any recommendations on non Zen Pinball games that play nice with it? I have Downwell but I can't find a game list more updated than Feb 2019.
I mean other games deal with characters being there and not being there. You can have alternate interactions in various places based on who is there. It's not like this is something unprecedented. If they chose to make a game using this set up they really should have taken the extra step have the narrative actually make sense with the various characters.
The first thing that leapt to mind was Ikaruga, which I then saw mentioned in Gamespot's review of the Flip Grip. So that alone!
Steam | XBL
I remember having a blast with it on the Dreamcast. Legends doesn’t feel the same way for some reason.
Man do I miss the VMU....
Sexagintiquadripath Traveler? Hexecontatetrapath Traveler?
It's permanently dead to me at this point. I don't remember what I was doing, the old timey speech - which I really fucking hate for a myriad of reasons - annoyed me in less than 5 minutes and I just didn't want to play it while Ghosts of Tsushima or Paper Mario were sitting there being like "You want a good time?"
Yeah, it comes in waves. We managed to find one at Target.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Oh cool...as soon as I saw it, I put in an order and was wondering if I maybe made a mistake. The notice I got was for Best Buy, and when I just checked, they were still listed as in stock (in case anybody was looking for it).
The old timey speech is literally one character. It's bad, but... yeah, none of the other characters talk like that. The rest use modern English, with some being outright snarky.
RE: linked stories, the problem is really just about doing checks and setting flags, which is inherent to story driven games anyway. Is X character in the party? Have they reached Y milestone? If so, do the thing (extra dialogue, cutscene, whatever). The 'hard' part is slicing up the narrative so that it makes sense, but even that's not too difficult. The overarching story is the same regardless of who's in the party. It's the character connections
That needs to be separated out. But it's totally doable, and, really, should've been done, with Lyblac's stuff actually being the driving force behind the game rather than shunted off into a post-game quest and left to be, essentially, trivia.
Given that the game asks you to play through every party member's prologue anyway (skipable, but still), there's no real added difficulty in the "pick anyone to start" aspect of the design.
Wait, so I've made the game as painful as possible by picking this one terribly written character?!?!
Edit: Or have I missed an optional thing to change the dialog style somewhere to something actually bearable?
Yeah, I don't think any of this is an actual programming issue, but more laziness on the part of the writing team.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
It's only H'aanit and her village that talk the powerfully affected old-timey way. Everyone else talks normally.