Why did federal law enforcement pick Portland Oregon as their Stalingrad?
I'm not understanding.
The decision was likely between Portland and Seattle for persistent demonstrations that got on Fox News (meaning Trump actually heard of them), and Portland offered a better loophole since protests were centered around a federal courthouse where federal law enforcement had a legal function, while Seattle was centered around a local police station.
So the NYPD has the resources to use like 12 officers to arrest someone for putting up stickers
guess they're overfunded
Someone needs to calculate the actual cost to tax payers for this.
So for the officers, given roughly an average wage of 34 bucks an hour. Fully loaded (with fringe, G&A and overhead) it’s about 68 bucks an hour. 1 hour to arrest and transport the suspect. 1 hour to do the associated paperwork. So 24 hours total. It works out to be about 1600 bucks in direct costs. And the cost of holding them a day. Which looks to be about a hundo. So 1700 bonesish.
I'm sure they're pulling mad OT too. The NYPD has made a fortune off the protests
Why did federal law enforcement pick Portland Oregon as their Stalingrad?
I'm not understanding.
To show that they could stage themselves in a state with a Democratic Executive and Legislature and that nobody would be able or willing to stop them.
Portland also has a reputation for going hard when it comes to protests, so if they were looking to try and escalate to the point the protesters respond with violence, it would be a logical choice. Fortunately that reputation for going hard comes with years of experience and cooler heads prevailed.
"If complete and utter chaos was lightning, then he'd be the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing wet copper armour and shouting 'All gods are bastards'."
Why did federal law enforcement pick Portland Oregon as their Stalingrad?
I'm not understanding.
Basically what everyone else is saying.
Portland, and Oregon in general, is pretty heavily Dem.
It’s a Dem mayor, with a Dem governor, two Dem Senators, four out of five Dem Reps, and a majority is Dem in the state Senate and state House.
Trump is using Portland to fuel his “Dems are weak” propaganda by instigating racial tensions and using the violence he is starting as a cudgel against Biden.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Why did federal law enforcement pick Portland Oregon as their Stalingrad?
I'm not understanding.
To show that they could stage themselves in a state with a Democratic Executive and Legislature and that nobody would be able or willing to stop them.
Portland also has a reputation for going hard when it comes to protests, so if they were looking to try and escalate to the point the protesters respond with violence, it would be a logical choice. Fortunately that reputation for going hard comes with years of experience and cooler heads prevailed.
Whereas Seattle, by comparison, is known for half-assing it.
In all seriousness though, it was good to see how Portland dealt with this, and I think on the whole the administration lost on this one.
Why did federal law enforcement pick Portland Oregon as their Stalingrad?
I'm not understanding.
To show that they could stage themselves in a state with a Democratic Executive and Legislature and that nobody would be able or willing to stop them.
Portland also has a reputation for going hard when it comes to protests, so if they were looking to try and escalate to the point the protesters respond with violence, it would be a logical choice. Fortunately that reputation for going hard comes with years of experience and cooler heads prevailed.
Whereas Seattle, by comparison, is known for half-assing it.
In all seriousness though, it was good to see how Portland dealt with this, and I think on the whole the administration lost on this one.
I don’t think so. I think they learned how to do it more effectively next time.
+1
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Why did federal law enforcement pick Portland Oregon as their Stalingrad?
I'm not understanding.
To show that they could stage themselves in a state with a Democratic Executive and Legislature and that nobody would be able or willing to stop them.
Portland also has a reputation for going hard when it comes to protests, so if they were looking to try and escalate to the point the protesters respond with violence, it would be a logical choice. Fortunately that reputation for going hard comes with years of experience and cooler heads prevailed.
Whereas Seattle, by comparison, is known for half-assing it.
In all seriousness though, it was good to see how Portland dealt with this, and I think on the whole the administration lost on this one.
I don’t think so. I think they learned how to do it more effectively next time.
I think they learned to go do it in a blacker city so there aren't so many photos of white women being brutalized by the feds.
Why did federal law enforcement pick Portland Oregon as their Stalingrad?
I'm not understanding.
To show that they could stage themselves in a state with a Democratic Executive and Legislature and that nobody would be able or willing to stop them.
Portland also has a reputation for going hard when it comes to protests, so if they were looking to try and escalate to the point the protesters respond with violence, it would be a logical choice. Fortunately that reputation for going hard comes with years of experience and cooler heads prevailed.
Whereas Seattle, by comparison, is known for half-assing it.
In all seriousness though, it was good to see how Portland dealt with this, and I think on the whole the administration lost on this one.
I don’t think so. I think they learned how to do it more effectively next time.
We'll have to see, but this is the Trump admin we're talking about a group of morons who stumble from one self inflicted crisis to the next. They were able to get away with this for as long as they did because it was the west cost forgotten states. But the media constantly is in the midwest asking diners full of trump voters why they voted trump so they might notice his brown shirts beating up people there.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Why did federal law enforcement pick Portland Oregon as their Stalingrad?
I'm not understanding.
To show that they could stage themselves in a state with a Democratic Executive and Legislature and that nobody would be able or willing to stop them.
Portland also has a reputation for going hard when it comes to protests, so if they were looking to try and escalate to the point the protesters respond with violence, it would be a logical choice. Fortunately that reputation for going hard comes with years of experience and cooler heads prevailed.
Whereas Seattle, by comparison, is known for half-assing it.
In all seriousness though, it was good to see how Portland dealt with this, and I think on the whole the administration lost on this one.
I don’t think so. I think they learned how to do it more effectively next time.
I think they learned to go do it in a blacker city so there aren't so many photos of white women being brutalized by the feds.
They also realized that the protesters weren't biting on the violence and giving them the riots they wanted, so they are going to reroll elsewhere.
Why did federal law enforcement pick Portland Oregon as their Stalingrad?
I'm not understanding.
To show that they could stage themselves in a state with a Democratic Executive and Legislature and that nobody would be able or willing to stop them.
Portland also has a reputation for going hard when it comes to protests, so if they were looking to try and escalate to the point the protesters respond with violence, it would be a logical choice. Fortunately that reputation for going hard comes with years of experience and cooler heads prevailed.
Whereas Seattle, by comparison, is known for half-assing it.
In all seriousness though, it was good to see how Portland dealt with this, and I think on the whole the administration lost on this one.
Portland and Seattle are the preseason. They're moving on to Cleveland, Detroit, and Milwaukee. Trump took MI and WI by <0.78% of those that voted - just 33,452 people - and he's really far behind in the polls there. Trump's currently polling under Biden or tied in Ohio.
So he's taking his authoritarian roadshow to the Midwest, to beat up some protesters, throw his weight around, and try and push for increased local police presence around protests.
Also, keep in mind that the feds have NOT confirmed that they're totally withdrawing from Portland. They say that they won't withdraw until they're satisfied local officials have the situation under control. Which presumably means continuing to gas the shit out of anyone with the temerity to ask that cops stop killing black folk.
I can't shake feeling like I need to re-read it not as a historical work but more for tips and tricks. Cause this shit is right out of the SAS playbook.
Protesters have been remarkably restrained this entire time. I can only imagine how the police would react if people fought back like the IRA during the Troubles.
I don't know about all police across the country but I imagine the federal pissbabies that took the cheap shots on the Navy vet in Portland would crap themselves if they ran into anything like the IRA.
Yeah. I guess that's where my confusion came from. Why not go to a higher minority population city and play to the stereotype of the riotous minority thugs?
I've lived in the Portland area for 6 years now and am largely "from" NorCal / Bay Area and I just never considered Portland to be that diverse or easy a target.
It seems common knowledge here that the police in Seattle and Portland have a really rough history surrounding police shootings/violence and not just minorities.
I was totally unaware before I moved here. So it just seemed like a really stupid place to try and deploy ICE/CBP. I'd guess Seattle or Chicago or Atlanta. Somewhere that the state might actually back them up against the city leaders.
Why did federal law enforcement pick Portland Oregon as their Stalingrad?
I'm not understanding.
To show that they could stage themselves in a state with a Democratic Executive and Legislature and that nobody would be able or willing to stop them.
Portland also has a reputation for going hard when it comes to protests, so if they were looking to try and escalate to the point the protesters respond with violence, it would be a logical choice. Fortunately that reputation for going hard comes with years of experience and cooler heads prevailed.
Whereas Seattle, by comparison, is known for half-assing it.
In all seriousness though, it was good to see how Portland dealt with this, and I think on the whole the administration lost on this one.
Portland and Seattle are the preseason. They're moving on to Cleveland, Detroit, and Milwaukee. Trump took MI and WI by <0.78% of those that voted - just 33,452 people - and he's really far behind in the polls there. Trump's currently polling under Biden or tied in Ohio.
So he's taking his authoritarian roadshow to the Midwest, to beat up some protesters, throw his weight around, and try and push for increased local police presence around protests.
Also, keep in mind that the feds have NOT confirmed that they're totally withdrawing from Portland. They say that they won't withdraw until they're satisfied local officials have the situation under control. Which presumably means continuing to gas the shit out of anyone with the temerity to ask that cops stop killing black folk.
They've also only said they're withdrawing from "Downtown". Portland is split by a river* and three bridges. Downtown doesn't really mean anything.
If they're loading up in a party van to abduct people who live out in Hillsboro, Gresham or Clackamas it's not even technically Portland.
* It's three rivers but only kind of, as it's where they split/merge. Portland is a bridge filled hellscape to drive in.
Why did federal law enforcement pick Portland Oregon as their Stalingrad?
I'm not understanding.
To show that they could stage themselves in a state with a Democratic Executive and Legislature and that nobody would be able or willing to stop them.
Portland also has a reputation for going hard when it comes to protests, so if they were looking to try and escalate to the point the protesters respond with violence, it would be a logical choice. Fortunately that reputation for going hard comes with years of experience and cooler heads prevailed.
Whereas Seattle, by comparison, is known for half-assing it.
In all seriousness though, it was good to see how Portland dealt with this, and I think on the whole the administration lost on this one.
Portland and Seattle are the preseason. They're moving on to Cleveland, Detroit, and Milwaukee. Trump took MI and WI by <0.78% of those that voted - just 33,452 people - and he's really far behind in the polls there. Trump's currently polling under Biden or tied in Ohio.
So he's taking his authoritarian roadshow to the Midwest, to beat up some protesters, throw his weight around, and try and push for increased local police presence around protests.
Also, keep in mind that the feds have NOT confirmed that they're totally withdrawing from Portland. They say that they won't withdraw until they're satisfied local officials have the situation under control. Which presumably means continuing to gas the shit out of anyone with the temerity to ask that cops stop killing black folk.
They've also only said they're withdrawing from "Downtown". Portland is split by a river* and three bridges. Downtown doesn't really mean anything.
If they're loading up in a party van to abduct people who live out in Hillsboro, Gresham or Clackamas it's not even technically Portland.
* It's three rivers but only kind of, as it's where they split/merge. Portland is a bridge filled hellscape to drive in.
The protests are also extremely confined to like a 3 block area of downtown. So while they might try to do their crap elsewhere, the justification for it is going to be even thinner than now.
Why did federal law enforcement pick Portland Oregon as their Stalingrad?
I'm not understanding.
A couple likely reasons mainly surrounding the liklihood of confrontation and the density of news media.
First off the main criteria is that there not be a lot of news media in the area. This means that we must be on the West Coast (the association to the West Coast Liberal adds to the appeal) but cannot be in LA. That leaves San Fran, Seattle, and Portland. San Fran has almost as much media as LA so this is right out. We're down to Portland and Seattle.
Advantages to Portland include:
1) Portland is super liberal and there are a number of actual anarchist groups in the area. They're not big but they're more organized in general than the Seattle anarchists.
2) Portland is by far the most remote of the major cities on the West Coast. The Portland Metro area is about 60% the size of Seattle and Seattle has Amazon and is closer to the border and has a true international airport*. IIRC it also has more major installations for various Federal Agencies many of whose PNW operations are based here. (its also functionally the base for half of the Pacific Fleet). While this might make it seem like Seattle was the more obvious choice it also means that there is more likely to be mainstream news in the area.
3) Portland protests were centered on the Federal courthouse. The (multiple) Seattle Federal buildings are no where near the protests.
*less true now, but still more than 2.5x the volume
The gestapo in Cleveland, Milwaukee, and Detroit is about suppressing votes there
+21
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Metzger MeisterIt Gets Worsebefore it gets any better.Registered Userregular
edited July 2020
The BLM mural here in downtown Spokane was defaced overnight with white and blue paint because of course it was. This is on the tail of a series of incidences a couple weeks back where white supremacist propaganda flyers were left on dozens of cars all around Spokane and Airway Heights and such. The fundraiser to fix the mural and maybe set up some cameras is already at like $2,500 dollars so that's cool.
Portland has also been a Fox News thing for a while with the running battles between Proud Boys and anti-fascists there over the course of the Trump Administration. That's probably the initial reason. But they've realized that oppressing white mothers is not a good luck so they're fucking off to much blacker cities to try to get the footage they want.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
+16
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
The ACLU was able to secure a restraining order against federal agents in Portland attacking the press and legal observers. Said thugs have been ignoring it, so the ACLU is back in court to... uh... find them in contempt? I mean I get that's probably the next legal step prior to just having the agents arrested or some shit but still.
The BLM mural here in downtown Spokane was defaced overnight with white and blue paint because of course it was. This is on the tail of a series of incidences a couple weeks back where white supremacist propaganda flyers were left on dozens of cars all around Spokane and Airway Heights and such. The fundraiser to fix the mural and maybe set up some cameras is already at like $2,500 dollars so that's cool.
Also the fundraiser is st almost five grand now so suck it racists.
I'm seeing overt Nazis in tweet replies far more often since the focus has shifted to the PNW. Is there a regional correlation there, or am I just killing it on dirtbag bingo?
The BLM mural here in downtown Spokane was defaced overnight with white and blue paint because of course it was. This is on the tail of a series of incidences a couple weeks back where white supremacist propaganda flyers were left on dozens of cars all around Spokane and Airway Heights and such. The fundraiser to fix the mural and maybe set up some cameras is already at like $2,500 dollars so that's cool.
Also the fundraiser is st almost five grand now so suck it racists.
I'm seeing overt Nazis in tweet replies far more often since the focus has shifted to the PNW. Is there a regional correlation there, or am I just killing it on dirtbag bingo?
Washington was the original “free white state” that a lot of white supremacists tried to institute like the old “all the libertarians move to NH” idea.
Dave Niewert at orcinus has more (google the blog name) and has covered the movement since the 70s
The BLM mural here in downtown Spokane was defaced overnight with white and blue paint because of course it was. This is on the tail of a series of incidences a couple weeks back where white supremacist propaganda flyers were left on dozens of cars all around Spokane and Airway Heights and such. The fundraiser to fix the mural and maybe set up some cameras is already at like $2,500 dollars so that's cool.
Also the fundraiser is st almost five grand now so suck it racists.
I'm seeing overt Nazis in tweet replies far more often since the focus has shifted to the PNW. Is there a regional correlation there, or am I just killing it on dirtbag bingo?
There are a number of hotspots in the region for the sort, such as the Idaho Panhandle/Eastern Washington and the California/Oregon border. It's also worth remembering Oregon's history as an attempted "white homeland".
The ACLU was able to secure a restraining order against federal agents in Portland attacking the press and legal observers. Said thugs have been ignoring it, so the ACLU is back in court to... uh... find them in contempt? I mean I get that's probably the next legal step prior to just having the agents arrested or some shit but still.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Using the Nuremberg defense against comparisons with Nazis.
That’s a Bold move, Cotton, let’s see how it works.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
For more on PWN Nazi's here is the link to Dave Neiwert i should have linked earlier but was on my phone. On the blog is not always specific to the PNW since there is... well a lot going on in the world that overshadows our little corner of the Nazi world.
I haven't read any of his books(though i should have), i just follow his blog intermittently. But his first book. "In God's Country
The Patriot Movement and the Pacific Northwest" i understand to be more or less the authoritative volume on PNW white supremacy up until the 2000's.
His book Eliminationists was a really good, scary look at the American right over a decade ago. nowadays it would probably look terrifyingly prescient.
Looks like the feds are going still going at it in portland.
I wish i could be surprised.
Ironically, if the Portland Police really wanted to reform their image with the constituency, they could be out there, in quantity in uniform, de-tacticalized (ie, not wearing the full riot gear), and responding to the federal goons with "Whoa, whoa, whoa, we're here to protect and serve OUR community", and putting themselves in the line of fire, and preventing the abductions we've seen.
There's a risk, because of all the bad blood over the past two months, but it'd help with getting the community back on side, at least a little, that it's not "cops vs public". It'd be what a "good cop" would do. But they don't, because #ACAB.
It's like the Republicans in Congress re Covid. They have outs that could save them. But they're too fucking stubborn, and too fucking stupid, and too fucking entitled, to take the obvious lifeline that's available.
Looks like the feds are going still going at it in portland.
I wish i could be surprised.
Ironically, if the Portland Police really wanted to reform their image with the constituency, they could be out there, in quantity in uniform, de-tacticalized (ie, not wearing the full riot gear), and responding to the federal goons with "Whoa, whoa, whoa, we're here to protect and serve OUR community", and putting themselves in the line of fire, and preventing the abductions we've seen.
There's a risk, because of all the bad blood over the past two months, but it'd help with getting the community back on side, at least a little, that it's not "cops vs public". It'd be what a "good cop" would do. But they don't, because #ACAB.
It's like the Republicans in Congress re Covid. They have outs that could save them. But they're too fucking stubborn, and too fucking stupid, and too fucking entitled, to take the obvious lifeline that's available.
The hardest step toward changing is admitting you were wrong. True for people. True for organizations.
Looks like the feds are going still going at it in portland.
I wish i could be surprised.
Ironically, if the Portland Police really wanted to reform their image with the constituency, they could be out there, in quantity in uniform, de-tacticalized (ie, not wearing the full riot gear), and responding to the federal goons with "Whoa, whoa, whoa, we're here to protect and serve OUR community", and putting themselves in the line of fire, and preventing the abductions we've seen.
There's a risk, because of all the bad blood over the past two months, but it'd help with getting the community back on side, at least a little, that it's not "cops vs public". It'd be what a "good cop" would do. But they don't, because #ACAB.
It's like the Republicans in Congress re Covid. They have outs that could save them. But they're too fucking stubborn, and too fucking stupid, and too fucking entitled, to take the obvious lifeline that's available.
The hardest step toward changing is admitting you were wrong. True for people. True for organizations.
Looks like the feds are going still going at it in portland.
I wish i could be surprised.
Ironically, if the Portland Police really wanted to reform their image with the constituency, they could be out there, in quantity in uniform, de-tacticalized (ie, not wearing the full riot gear), and responding to the federal goons with "Whoa, whoa, whoa, we're here to protect and serve OUR community", and putting themselves in the line of fire, and preventing the abductions we've seen.
There's a risk, because of all the bad blood over the past two months, but it'd help with getting the community back on side, at least a little, that it's not "cops vs public". It'd be what a "good cop" would do. But they don't, because #ACAB.
It's like the Republicans in Congress re Covid. They have outs that could save them. But they're too fucking stubborn, and too fucking stupid, and too fucking entitled, to take the obvious lifeline that's available.
The hardest step toward changing is admitting you were wrong. True for people. True for organizations.
And the PPB is kinda shit even for cops.
Seriously. SPD and PPB are full of horror stories.
+5
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
The BLM mural here in downtown Spokane was defaced overnight with white and blue paint because of course it was. This is on the tail of a series of incidences a couple weeks back where white supremacist propaganda flyers were left on dozens of cars all around Spokane and Airway Heights and such. The fundraiser to fix the mural and maybe set up some cameras is already at like $2,500 dollars so that's cool.
Also the fundraiser is st almost five grand now so suck it racists.
I'm seeing overt Nazis in tweet replies far more often since the focus has shifted to the PNW. Is there a regional correlation there, or am I just killing it on dirtbag bingo?
There are a number of hotspots in the region for the sort, such as the Idaho Panhandle/Eastern Washington and the California/Oregon border. It's also worth remembering Oregon's history as an attempted "white homeland".
Looks like the feds are going still going at it in portland.
I wish i could be surprised.
Ironically, if the Portland Police really wanted to reform their image with the constituency, they could be out there, in quantity in uniform, de-tacticalized (ie, not wearing the full riot gear), and responding to the federal goons with "Whoa, whoa, whoa, we're here to protect and serve OUR community", and putting themselves in the line of fire, and preventing the abductions we've seen.
There's a risk, because of all the bad blood over the past two months, but it'd help with getting the community back on side, at least a little, that it's not "cops vs public". It'd be what a "good cop" would do. But they don't, because #ACAB.
It's like the Republicans in Congress re Covid. They have outs that could save them. But they're too fucking stubborn, and too fucking stupid, and too fucking entitled, to take the obvious lifeline that's available.
The hardest step toward changing is admitting you were wrong. True for people. True for organizations.
And the PPB is kinda shit even for cops.
The realization that Nazis have, for some time now, been trying to colonize the northwest has certainly filled in a few blanks for me as to why two very blue cities, in two very blue states, seem to have such fascist police departments.
Looks like the feds are going still going at it in portland.
I wish i could be surprised.
Ironically, if the Portland Police really wanted to reform their image with the constituency, they could be out there, in quantity in uniform, de-tacticalized (ie, not wearing the full riot gear), and responding to the federal goons with "Whoa, whoa, whoa, we're here to protect and serve OUR community", and putting themselves in the line of fire, and preventing the abductions we've seen.
There's a risk, because of all the bad blood over the past two months, but it'd help with getting the community back on side, at least a little, that it's not "cops vs public". It'd be what a "good cop" would do. But they don't, because #ACAB.
It's like the Republicans in Congress re Covid. They have outs that could save them. But they're too fucking stubborn, and too fucking stupid, and too fucking entitled, to take the obvious lifeline that's available.
If the local police were inclined to defend the protesters against excessive force there wouldn't be protests in the first place because what is being protested is the police's default behavior of using excessive force.
Looks like the feds are going still going at it in portland.
I wish i could be surprised.
Ironically, if the Portland Police really wanted to reform their image with the constituency, they could be out there, in quantity in uniform, de-tacticalized (ie, not wearing the full riot gear), and responding to the federal goons with "Whoa, whoa, whoa, we're here to protect and serve OUR community", and putting themselves in the line of fire, and preventing the abductions we've seen.
There's a risk, because of all the bad blood over the past two months, but it'd help with getting the community back on side, at least a little, that it's not "cops vs public". It'd be what a "good cop" would do. But they don't, because #ACAB.
It's like the Republicans in Congress re Covid. They have outs that could save them. But they're too fucking stubborn, and too fucking stupid, and too fucking entitled, to take the obvious lifeline that's available.
The hardest step toward changing is admitting you were wrong. True for people. True for organizations.
And the PPB is kinda shit even for cops.
The realization that Nazis have, for some time now, been trying to colonize the northwest has certainly filled in a few blanks for me as to why two very blue cities, in two very blue states, seem to have such fascist police departments.
40% of Washington state voted for Trump. 20% of King County voted for Trump. As we all know, almost every state is actually purple. Even setting aside the Nazi presence in the PNW...which is real, don't get me wrong...there are more than enough conservatives living in any state in the country for police forces to draw from. Police departments have a self-reinforcing culture that encourages excessive force and discourages accountability, from top to bottom. And unlike the military, which at least has the college benefits and the expectation of one-and-done contracts to draw from a broader political cross section, police work is a career that you enter into with the intent of staying indefinitely. You plan to wear a badge for twenty years or more. Because of the real political divides that exist, I have to assume that's going to skew conservative and authoritarian.
How many open-minded, liberal people do you know that are like "I wanna be a cop?" It doesn't matter how liberal or blue your city or state thinks it is, the police can easily fill the ranks with buzzcuts looking to crack skulls. Those people are all around us, everywhere.
I don't know if it's been mentioned in here (so many atrocity threads, so little time), but I came across this in a tweet that I thought was fairly interesting, though I don't know the guy's qualifications.
Looks like the feds are going still going at it in portland.
I wish i could be surprised.
Ironically, if the Portland Police really wanted to reform their image with the constituency, they could be out there, in quantity in uniform, de-tacticalized (ie, not wearing the full riot gear), and responding to the federal goons with "Whoa, whoa, whoa, we're here to protect and serve OUR community", and putting themselves in the line of fire, and preventing the abductions we've seen.
There's a risk, because of all the bad blood over the past two months, but it'd help with getting the community back on side, at least a little, that it's not "cops vs public". It'd be what a "good cop" would do. But they don't, because #ACAB.
It's like the Republicans in Congress re Covid. They have outs that could save them. But they're too fucking stubborn, and too fucking stupid, and too fucking entitled, to take the obvious lifeline that's available.
The hardest step toward changing is admitting you were wrong. True for people. True for organizations.
And the PPB is kinda shit even for cops.
The realization that Nazis have, for some time now, been trying to colonize the northwest has certainly filled in a few blanks for me as to why two very blue cities, in two very blue states, seem to have such fascist police departments.
40% of Washington state voted for Trump. 20% of King County voted for Trump. As we all know, almost every state is actually purple. Even setting aside the Nazi presence in the PNW...which is real, don't get me wrong...there are more than enough conservatives living in any state in the country for police forces to draw from. Police departments have a self-reinforcing culture that encourages excessive force and discourages accountability, from top to bottom. And unlike the military, which at least has the college benefits and the expectation of one-and-done contracts to draw from a broader political cross section, police work is a career that you enter into with the intent of staying indefinitely. You plan to wear a badge for twenty years or more. Because of the real political divides that exist, I have to assume that's going to skew conservative and authoritarian.
How many open-minded, liberal people do you know that are like "I wanna be a cop?" It doesn't matter how liberal or blue your city or state thinks it is, the police can easily fill the ranks with buzzcuts looking to crack skulls. Those people are all around us, everywhere.
Which is itself a long-term problem for dealing with shitty policing because at some point you are gonna have to get people not like that into those job.
I don't know if it's been mentioned in here (so many atrocity threads, so little time), but I came across this in a tweet that I thought was fairly interesting, though I don't know the guy's qualifications.
These people can’t even follow a 60- page pamplet on how to handle a pandemic you expect them to read and follow a manual on best counterinsurgency practices?
Posts
To show that they could stage themselves in a state with a Democratic Executive and Legislature and that nobody would be able or willing to stop them.
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
The decision was likely between Portland and Seattle for persistent demonstrations that got on Fox News (meaning Trump actually heard of them), and Portland offered a better loophole since protests were centered around a federal courthouse where federal law enforcement had a legal function, while Seattle was centered around a local police station.
I'm sure they're pulling mad OT too. The NYPD has made a fortune off the protests
Portland also has a reputation for going hard when it comes to protests, so if they were looking to try and escalate to the point the protesters respond with violence, it would be a logical choice. Fortunately that reputation for going hard comes with years of experience and cooler heads prevailed.
Basically what everyone else is saying.
Portland, and Oregon in general, is pretty heavily Dem.
It’s a Dem mayor, with a Dem governor, two Dem Senators, four out of five Dem Reps, and a majority is Dem in the state Senate and state House.
Trump is using Portland to fuel his “Dems are weak” propaganda by instigating racial tensions and using the violence he is starting as a cudgel against Biden.
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Whereas Seattle, by comparison, is known for half-assing it.
In all seriousness though, it was good to see how Portland dealt with this, and I think on the whole the administration lost on this one.
I don’t think so. I think they learned how to do it more effectively next time.
I think they learned to go do it in a blacker city so there aren't so many photos of white women being brutalized by the feds.
We'll have to see, but this is the Trump admin we're talking about a group of morons who stumble from one self inflicted crisis to the next. They were able to get away with this for as long as they did because it was the west cost forgotten states. But the media constantly is in the midwest asking diners full of trump voters why they voted trump so they might notice his brown shirts beating up people there.
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They also realized that the protesters weren't biting on the violence and giving them the riots they wanted, so they are going to reroll elsewhere.
So he's taking his authoritarian roadshow to the Midwest, to beat up some protesters, throw his weight around, and try and push for increased local police presence around protests.
Also, keep in mind that the feds have NOT confirmed that they're totally withdrawing from Portland. They say that they won't withdraw until they're satisfied local officials have the situation under control. Which presumably means continuing to gas the shit out of anyone with the temerity to ask that cops stop killing black folk.
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I don't know about all police across the country but I imagine the federal pissbabies that took the cheap shots on the Navy vet in Portland would crap themselves if they ran into anything like the IRA.
I've lived in the Portland area for 6 years now and am largely "from" NorCal / Bay Area and I just never considered Portland to be that diverse or easy a target.
It seems common knowledge here that the police in Seattle and Portland have a really rough history surrounding police shootings/violence and not just minorities.
I was totally unaware before I moved here. So it just seemed like a really stupid place to try and deploy ICE/CBP. I'd guess Seattle or Chicago or Atlanta. Somewhere that the state might actually back them up against the city leaders.
They've also only said they're withdrawing from "Downtown". Portland is split by a river* and three bridges. Downtown doesn't really mean anything.
If they're loading up in a party van to abduct people who live out in Hillsboro, Gresham or Clackamas it's not even technically Portland.
* It's three rivers but only kind of, as it's where they split/merge. Portland is a bridge filled hellscape to drive in.
The protests are also extremely confined to like a 3 block area of downtown. So while they might try to do their crap elsewhere, the justification for it is going to be even thinner than now.
A couple likely reasons mainly surrounding the liklihood of confrontation and the density of news media.
First off the main criteria is that there not be a lot of news media in the area. This means that we must be on the West Coast (the association to the West Coast Liberal adds to the appeal) but cannot be in LA. That leaves San Fran, Seattle, and Portland. San Fran has almost as much media as LA so this is right out. We're down to Portland and Seattle.
Advantages to Portland include:
1) Portland is super liberal and there are a number of actual anarchist groups in the area. They're not big but they're more organized in general than the Seattle anarchists.
2) Portland is by far the most remote of the major cities on the West Coast. The Portland Metro area is about 60% the size of Seattle and Seattle has Amazon and is closer to the border and has a true international airport*. IIRC it also has more major installations for various Federal Agencies many of whose PNW operations are based here. (its also functionally the base for half of the Pacific Fleet). While this might make it seem like Seattle was the more obvious choice it also means that there is more likely to be mainstream news in the area.
3) Portland protests were centered on the Federal courthouse. The (multiple) Seattle Federal buildings are no where near the protests.
*less true now, but still more than 2.5x the volume
The gestapo in Cleveland, Milwaukee, and Detroit is about suppressing votes there
This is a Twitter post from a local journalist about the finished mural. I don't care to post the defaced one.
Edit: if you wanted to see the mural in more detail, check it out here https://www.inlander.com/spokane/black-lives-matter-mural/Slideshow/19981608
Also the fundraiser is st almost five grand now so suck it racists.
I'm seeing overt Nazis in tweet replies far more often since the focus has shifted to the PNW. Is there a regional correlation there, or am I just killing it on dirtbag bingo?
Washington was the original “free white state” that a lot of white supremacists tried to institute like the old “all the libertarians move to NH” idea.
Dave Niewert at orcinus has more (google the blog name) and has covered the movement since the 70s
There are a number of hotspots in the region for the sort, such as the Idaho Panhandle/Eastern Washington and the California/Oregon border. It's also worth remembering Oregon's history as an attempted "white homeland".
I mean, that defense worked really well when the Nazis tried it, right? Right?
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That’s a Bold move, Cotton, let’s see how it works.
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/
Wikipedia can get you started with information on
The Order:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Order_(white_supremacist_group)
And their "Northwest Territorial Imperative" (which was the impetus for the events preceding Ruby Ridge.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Order_(white_supremacist_group)
I haven't read any of his books(though i should have), i just follow his blog intermittently. But his first book. "In God's Country
The Patriot Movement and the Pacific Northwest" i understand to be more or less the authoritative volume on PNW white supremacy up until the 2000's.
I wish i could be surprised.
Ironically, if the Portland Police really wanted to reform their image with the constituency, they could be out there, in quantity in uniform, de-tacticalized (ie, not wearing the full riot gear), and responding to the federal goons with "Whoa, whoa, whoa, we're here to protect and serve OUR community", and putting themselves in the line of fire, and preventing the abductions we've seen.
There's a risk, because of all the bad blood over the past two months, but it'd help with getting the community back on side, at least a little, that it's not "cops vs public". It'd be what a "good cop" would do. But they don't, because #ACAB.
It's like the Republicans in Congress re Covid. They have outs that could save them. But they're too fucking stubborn, and too fucking stupid, and too fucking entitled, to take the obvious lifeline that's available.
The hardest step toward changing is admitting you were wrong. True for people. True for organizations.
And the PPB is kinda shit even for cops.
Seriously. SPD and PPB are full of horror stories.
you don't even have to go to eastern washington
lots of hammerskins meet up in Everett and Maltby
The realization that Nazis have, for some time now, been trying to colonize the northwest has certainly filled in a few blanks for me as to why two very blue cities, in two very blue states, seem to have such fascist police departments.
If the local police were inclined to defend the protesters against excessive force there wouldn't be protests in the first place because what is being protested is the police's default behavior of using excessive force.
40% of Washington state voted for Trump. 20% of King County voted for Trump. As we all know, almost every state is actually purple. Even setting aside the Nazi presence in the PNW...which is real, don't get me wrong...there are more than enough conservatives living in any state in the country for police forces to draw from. Police departments have a self-reinforcing culture that encourages excessive force and discourages accountability, from top to bottom. And unlike the military, which at least has the college benefits and the expectation of one-and-done contracts to draw from a broader political cross section, police work is a career that you enter into with the intent of staying indefinitely. You plan to wear a badge for twenty years or more. Because of the real political divides that exist, I have to assume that's going to skew conservative and authoritarian.
How many open-minded, liberal people do you know that are like "I wanna be a cop?" It doesn't matter how liberal or blue your city or state thinks it is, the police can easily fill the ranks with buzzcuts looking to crack skulls. Those people are all around us, everywhere.
Basically: This is all going exactly as written in the book when shit is handled incorrectly, and if they keep mishandling shit things are going to get worse.
The specific book being referred to:
https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-24.pdf
FM 3-24
MCWP 3-33.5
INSURGENCIES AND
COUNTERING
INSURGENCIES
Which is itself a long-term problem for dealing with shitty policing because at some point you are gonna have to get people not like that into those job.
These people can’t even follow a 60- page pamplet on how to handle a pandemic you expect them to read and follow a manual on best counterinsurgency practices?