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As cool as winter, as hot as summer[Harry Dresden]-Battle Grounds is out!

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  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    On swords and what they do to:
    I don't think Butter's sword would work on a Red Court Vampire the same way it would on a White Court. Red's ARE monsters once they turn and human before with a sickness. White's are apparently human with monsters attached.

    Xeddicus on
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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Yeah, so finished Brief Cases. Good stuff, I do like it when he writes from other characters' points of view. He's not super duper the best at it, a lot of them do seem to come off as similar to Harry in some way or other, but the characters are unique enough that it still works.
    The thing with Molly and her mantle being particular about her sex life is kind of derpy and stupid, but it's the sort of derpy and stupid that's pretty on-brand for the Fae in this setting. Nearly murderizing Carlos seemed a bit excessive since a knee to the groin and then throwing him through the nearest wall would have done as well, but Winter's gonna Winter I guess.

    The zoo trip was good fun, but it's kind of disturbing that there's an entire ecosystem of phages that prey on children and no adults know anything about it. Also, Mouse seemed a tad dumber than what his dialogue in Changes implied, but that might just have been the french fries.

    Whoever created the Dresdenverse has some 'splaining to do, because it seems like their solution for protecting the material world from the Outsiders was to create a buffer space that is marginally more friendly than 40k's Immaterium and then populate it with the predatory sex maniacs of Winter in order to provide unlimited troops for the meat grinder. Then they slapped in slightly less predatory Summer types to protect humanity from the Winter Fae. I assume that Summer Fae eating gorillas were in the mix at some point, but didn't make the cut.

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  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    that reveal in brief cases about Molly really made me question the previous Winter Lady actions and i'm not sure everything lines up consistently.

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Pailryder wrote: »
    that reveal in brief cases about Molly really made me question the previous Winter Lady actions and i'm not sure everything lines up consistently.

    Yeah, I don't think that's something Butcher had planned out from the beginning. Like a whole lot in the series. Worst case scenario you can invoke Nemesis to try and handwave things away.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    On swords and what they do to:
    I don't think Butter's sword would work on a Red Court Vampire the same way it would on a White Court. Red's ARE monsters once they turn and human before with a sickness. White's are apparently human with monsters attached.
    I was thinking infectees, not fully-committed Reds.

    Ringo
  • RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    On swords and what they do to:
    I don't think Butter's sword would work on a Red Court Vampire the same way it would on a White Court. Red's ARE monsters once they turn and human before with a sickness. White's are apparently human with monsters attached.
    I was thinking infectees, not fully-committed Reds.

    Butters Sword:
    If there's any sense of consistency, the sword will be able to kill the demon in Thomas's kid (thus saving Justine) as white court vampires don't turn until their first feeding and can be 'freed' if their first feeding is with someone who they share the True Love buff with

    Thomas and Lara couldn't be saved anymore than a full Red Court. They made their "choice"

    Sterica wrote: »
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  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Ringo wrote: »
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    On swords and what they do to:
    I don't think Butter's sword would work on a Red Court Vampire the same way it would on a White Court. Red's ARE monsters once they turn and human before with a sickness. White's are apparently human with monsters attached.
    I was thinking infectees, not fully-committed Reds.

    Butters Sword:
    If there's any sense of consistency, the sword will be able to kill the demon in Thomas's kid (thus saving Justine) as white court vampires don't turn until their first feeding and can be 'freed' if their first feeding is with someone who they share the True Love buff with

    Thomas and Lara couldn't be saved anymore than a full Red Court. They made their "choice"

    Sort of.
    But the Hunger is still always described as a separate entity, unlike Red Court vampires.

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  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    Pailryder wrote: »
    that reveal in brief cases about Molly really made me question the previous Winter Lady actions and i'm not sure everything lines up consistently.
    While I was listening to the audiobook, my thoughts ran to a NSFW oglaf comic about a cold proof vibrator for the winter queen.

    Svartalve time.

    GiantGeek2020ElvenshaeBlackDragon480Brody
  • RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    Ringo wrote: »
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    On swords and what they do to:
    I don't think Butter's sword would work on a Red Court Vampire the same way it would on a White Court. Red's ARE monsters once they turn and human before with a sickness. White's are apparently human with monsters attached.
    I was thinking infectees, not fully-committed Reds.

    Butters Sword:
    If there's any sense of consistency, the sword will be able to kill the demon in Thomas's kid (thus saving Justine) as white court vampires don't turn until their first feeding and can be 'freed' if their first feeding is with someone who they share the True Love buff with

    Thomas and Lara couldn't be saved anymore than a full Red Court. They made their "choice"

    Sort of.
    But the Hunger is still always described as a separate entity, unlike Red Court vampires.

    Yeah, that's why I don't expect any actual consistency

    Sterica wrote: »
    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
    Edcrab's Exigency RPG
  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    zepherin wrote: »
    Pailryder wrote: »
    that reveal in brief cases about Molly really made me question the previous Winter Lady actions and i'm not sure everything lines up consistently.
    While I was listening to the audiobook, my thoughts ran to a NSFW oglaf comic about a cold proof vibrator for the winter queen.

    Svartalve time.

    It's easier to call out the oglafs that are SFW.

    Tofystedeth on
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  • RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    Ringo wrote: »
    Yeah, that's why I don't expect any actual consistency
    To expand on this thought, I want to add that while I would truly love for the whole of the Dresden Files to be internally consistent and have a satisfying experience with every outing that leads to a breathtaking and well-earned conclusion.. it's just not going to happen. And while that's disappointing, it's something that I have to accept to continue enjoying the series.

    Stephen King couldn't do it for the Dark Tower and he had more resources and less pressure to work with than Butcher will have in his entire life.

    Sir Terry Pratchett ended up writing an entire novel lampshading the many times he had failed to keep Discworld consistent.

    So while I may grouse and complain about whatever happens next, I don't need to grade Butcher too harshly. If anything, I get much more apoplectic about things that Butcher's editors should have caught.

    Sterica wrote: »
    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
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  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    random thought from a discussion with friends
    the justi...was interpreted to be justine but what if it was justin...the father!

    RingoElvenshaeBrody
  • RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    Pailryder wrote: »
    random thought from a discussion with friends
    the justi...was interpreted to be justine but what if it was justin...the father!

    I am now picturing shenanigans that make the TV show a canon Alternate Universe, and I think I'm here for it

    Sterica wrote: »
    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
    Edcrab's Exigency RPG
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  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    man i mistyped that horribly
    i meant to say justin dumorn

  • TarantioTarantio Registered User regular
    Side Jobs and Peace Talks spoilers:
    Harry still doesn't know that Thomas and Lara are Venatori, even though he called out the cover organization Venatori Umbrororum with Lovecraft specifically in the book.

    Lara also engaged Harry's services from Mab before Harry or the reader knew about Thomas' attack on the Svartalves, and possibly before the attack took place. Her motivation for that was never explained, if I recall correctly.

    This seems to leave open the possibility that what Thomas did was motivated by the Oblivion War in some way.

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Tarantio wrote: »
    Side Jobs and Peace Talks spoilers:
    Harry still doesn't know that Thomas and Lara are Venatori, even though he called out the cover organization Venatori Umbrororum with Lovecraft specifically in the book.

    Lara also engaged Harry's services from Mab before Harry or the reader knew about Thomas' attack on the Svartalves, and possibly before the attack took place. Her motivation for that was never explained, if I recall correctly.

    This seems to leave open the possibility that what Thomas did was motivated by the Oblivion War in some way.
    A good point - there wasn't any reason for her to cash in favors from Winter for Harry specifically if she didn't have reason to think she'd want his help on stuff. Harry did seem to have half caught on to that though, pointing out that Lara making requests of him directly gives Mab plausible deniability.

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  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Tarantio wrote: »
    Side Jobs and Peace Talks spoilers:
    Harry still doesn't know that Thomas and Lara are Venatori, even though he called out the cover organization Venatori Umbrororum with Lovecraft specifically in the book.

    Lara also engaged Harry's services from Mab before Harry or the reader knew about Thomas' attack on the Svartalves, and possibly before the attack took place. Her motivation for that was never explained, if I recall correctly.

    This seems to leave open the possibility that what Thomas did was motivated by the Oblivion War in some way.
    A good point - there wasn't any reason for her to cash in favors from Winter for Harry specifically if she didn't have reason to think she'd want his help on stuff. Harry did seem to have half caught on to that though, pointing out that Lara making requests of him directly gives Mab plausible deniability.

    Slightly tangential, but
    Lara's first favor was weak

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  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    Ringo wrote: »
    Pailryder wrote: »
    random thought from a discussion with friends
    the justi...was interpreted to be justine but what if it was justin...the father!

    I am now picturing shenanigans that make the TV show a canon Alternate Universe, and I think I'm here for it

    Well, the book following Battle Ground is going to be called
    Mirror Mirror...


    Tarantio wrote: »
    Side Jobs and Peace Talks spoilers:
    Harry still doesn't know that Thomas and Lara are Venatori, even though he called out the cover organization Venatori Umbrororum with Lovecraft specifically in the book.

    Lara also engaged Harry's services from Mab before Harry or the reader knew about Thomas' attack on the Svartalves, and possibly before the attack took place. Her motivation for that was never explained, if I recall correctly.

    This seems to leave open the possibility that what Thomas did was motivated by the Oblivion War in some way.
    I think Butcher's plan was for Harry to never be in the loop on that particular conflict if just because of how it operates as basically Seventh Law Squared and its relatively slow pace. If that's the case working it into the main storyline would probably get more than a little awkward.

  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    it was hard to tell in the book (because now we have to second guess everything) who was playing stupid and who is actually out of the know.
    i found it hard to believe Lara did that without intent...i.e. she was trying to stay on his good side.

    Zibblsnrt
  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    Harry and Lara
    not only have at least one common interest between them - in a setting where blood ties can be a Big Deal, mind - but also know that if they went hostile against one another it would be an "immediate existential crisis for one or both" kind of mess. It's in both their best interests not to piss each other off too much unless someone crosses a line, which is what Lara thought Harry did on Demonreach.

    (Also, I suspect they simply like each other more than they're politically able to admit.)

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    Harry and Lara
    not only have at least one common interest between them - in a setting where blood ties can be a Big Deal, mind - but also know that if they went hostile against one another it would be an "immediate existential crisis for one or both" kind of mess. It's in both their best interests not to piss each other off too much unless someone crosses a line, which is what Lara thought Harry did on Demonreach.

    (Also, I suspect they simply like each other more than they're politically able to admit.)
    I'm still not entirely happy with the Demonreach bit. It really wasn't necessary to have that whole suffering part of sealing Thomas.

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  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    Demonreach and characters on it:
    It's not necessary, but also makes sense given the place is, as stated, a prison for really bad things. I don't think Lara cared about or even knew about the pain part, either. The entire sequence suffers from the problem it have taken all of 3 seconds to tell her what he planned, but then she can't attack him.

    I'm kind of wondering if there's even a way to release prisoners and if there is what does it entail. You wouldn't want to make it easy to let anything out of that place.

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  • jdarksunjdarksun Struggler Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Demonreach and characters on it:
    It's not necessary, but also makes sense given the place is, as stated, a prison for really bad things. I don't think Lara cared about or even knew about the pain part, either. The entire sequence suffers from the problem it have taken all of 3 seconds to tell her what he planned, but then she can't attack him.

    I'm kind of wondering if there's even a way to release prisoners and if there is what does it entail. You wouldn't want to make it easy to let anything out of that place.

    Eh.
    There's no way that she'd agree to it, even though it's a good plan. He's literally beyond her reach now.

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  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Demonreach and characters on it:
    It's not necessary, but also makes sense given the place is, as stated, a prison for really bad things. I don't think Lara cared about or even knew about the pain part, either. The entire sequence suffers from the problem it have taken all of 3 seconds to tell her what he planned, but then she can't attack him.

    I'm kind of wondering if there's even a way to release prisoners and if there is what does it entail. You wouldn't want to make it easy to let anything out of that place.
    Harry specifies Thomas is to be held in stasis until he returns to release him, and he isn't corrected by Demonreach over that. He could probably just order him released.

  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Demonreach and characters on it:
    It's not necessary, but also makes sense given the place is, as stated, a prison for really bad things. I don't think Lara cared about or even knew about the pain part, either. The entire sequence suffers from the problem it have taken all of 3 seconds to tell her what he planned, but then she can't attack him.

    I'm kind of wondering if there's even a way to release prisoners and if there is what does it entail. You wouldn't want to make it easy to let anything out of that place.
    Harry specifies Thomas is to be held in stasis until he returns to release him, and he isn't corrected by Demonreach over that. He could probably just order him released.
    I don't think Harry can be wrong. Pretty sure the intellectus applies.

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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Demonreach and characters on it:
    It's not necessary, but also makes sense given the place is, as stated, a prison for really bad things. I don't think Lara cared about or even knew about the pain part, either. The entire sequence suffers from the problem it have taken all of 3 seconds to tell her what he planned, but then she can't attack him.

    I'm kind of wondering if there's even a way to release prisoners and if there is what does it entail. You wouldn't want to make it easy to let anything out of that place.

    Eh.
    There's no way that she'd agree to it, even though it's a good plan. He's literally beyond her reach now.

    I don't think I agree.
    If he isn't on the island then the entire White Court is gonna get fucked politically. The thing with the island is it so severely fucks with divination that nobody will know he is there. If he has to be on the island then he's going to get eaten alive by his demon if he isn't in stasis. Lara knows that Harry isn't going to let her send out some cattle for him to kill. The only other option would be for her to let Thomas feed on herself and I don't think she's willing to put herself in such a vulnerable position to her brother.

    It's a shit situation with no good choices but Harry's plan appears to be the best of the bad choices. Lara should have realized that. I also have trouble believing that Lara has absolutely zero clue just how fucked she is regarding fighting on the island. That does not seem like something she'd overlook to gather intel on.

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Demonreach and characters on it:
    It's not necessary, but also makes sense given the place is, as stated, a prison for really bad things. I don't think Lara cared about or even knew about the pain part, either. The entire sequence suffers from the problem it have taken all of 3 seconds to tell her what he planned, but then she can't attack him.

    I'm kind of wondering if there's even a way to release prisoners and if there is what does it entail. You wouldn't want to make it easy to let anything out of that place.

    Eh.
    There's no way that she'd agree to it, even though it's a good plan. He's literally beyond her reach now.

    I don't think I agree.
    If he isn't on the island then the entire White Court is gonna get fucked politically. The thing with the island is it so severely fucks with divination that nobody will know he is there. If he has to be on the island then he's going to get eaten alive by his demon if he isn't in stasis. Lara knows that Harry isn't going to let her send out some cattle for him to kill. The only other option would be for her to let Thomas feed on herself and I don't think she's willing to put herself in such a vulnerable position to her brother.

    It's a shit situation with no good choices but Harry's plan appears to be the best of the bad choices. Lara should have realized that. I also have trouble believing that Lara has absolutely zero clue just how fucked she is regarding fighting on the island. That does not seem like something she'd overlook to gather intel on.
    There aren't that many people who've seen Harry pull that kind of stuff, or even know what the island is to begin with.

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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Demonreach and characters on it:
    It's not necessary, but also makes sense given the place is, as stated, a prison for really bad things. I don't think Lara cared about or even knew about the pain part, either. The entire sequence suffers from the problem it have taken all of 3 seconds to tell her what he planned, but then she can't attack him.

    I'm kind of wondering if there's even a way to release prisoners and if there is what does it entail. You wouldn't want to make it easy to let anything out of that place.

    Eh.
    There's no way that she'd agree to it, even though it's a good plan. He's literally beyond her reach now.

    I don't think I agree.
    If he isn't on the island then the entire White Court is gonna get fucked politically. The thing with the island is it so severely fucks with divination that nobody will know he is there. If he has to be on the island then he's going to get eaten alive by his demon if he isn't in stasis. Lara knows that Harry isn't going to let her send out some cattle for him to kill. The only other option would be for her to let Thomas feed on herself and I don't think she's willing to put herself in such a vulnerable position to her brother.

    It's a shit situation with no good choices but Harry's plan appears to be the best of the bad choices. Lara should have realized that. I also have trouble believing that Lara has absolutely zero clue just how fucked she is regarding fighting on the island. That does not seem like something she'd overlook to gather intel on.
    There aren't that many people who've seen Harry pull that kind of stuff, or even know what the island is to begin with.
    So I'm working with two assumptions here: Lara was all about that intel as a source of power and influence and she's hired a freaking Valkyrie. If she doesn't have an intel dossier on the brother of her brother and major wizard of her home town she is pretty stupid. While I do think not lots of folks know a bunch about Demonreach I think it is known enough about that she should have a good idea it is serious juju. She went after Harry with a knife. It was just her being stupid because the book needed that scene. It wasn't earned and it didn't do much of anything except insert some pointless tension between Lara and Harry.

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  • jdarksunjdarksun Struggler Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Demonreach and characters on it:
    It's not necessary, but also makes sense given the place is, as stated, a prison for really bad things. I don't think Lara cared about or even knew about the pain part, either. The entire sequence suffers from the problem it have taken all of 3 seconds to tell her what he planned, but then she can't attack him.

    I'm kind of wondering if there's even a way to release prisoners and if there is what does it entail. You wouldn't want to make it easy to let anything out of that place.

    Eh.
    There's no way that she'd agree to it, even though it's a good plan. He's literally beyond her reach now.

    I don't think I agree.
    If he isn't on the island then the entire White Court is gonna get fucked politically. The thing with the island is it so severely fucks with divination that nobody will know he is there. If he has to be on the island then he's going to get eaten alive by his demon if he isn't in stasis. Lara knows that Harry isn't going to let her send out some cattle for him to kill. The only other option would be for her to let Thomas feed on herself and I don't think she's willing to put herself in such a vulnerable position to her brother.

    It's a shit situation with no good choices but Harry's plan appears to be the best of the bad choices. Lara should have realized that. I also have trouble believing that Lara has absolutely zero clue just how fucked she is regarding fighting on the island. That does not seem like something she'd overlook to gather intel on.
    There aren't that many people who've seen Harry pull that kind of stuff, or even know what the island is to begin with.
    So I'm working with two assumptions here: Lara was all about that intel as a source of power and influence and she's hired a freaking Valkyrie. If she doesn't have an intel dossier on the brother of her brother and major wizard of her home town she is pretty stupid. While I do think not lots of folks know a bunch about Demonreach I think it is known enough about that she should have a good idea it is serious juju. She went after Harry with a knife. It was just her being stupid because the book needed that scene. It wasn't earned and it didn't do much of anything except insert some pointless tension between Lara and Harry.
    Aren't knives, like, Lara's thing? Like Murphy and her P90.

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  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Demonreach and characters on it:
    It's not necessary, but also makes sense given the place is, as stated, a prison for really bad things. I don't think Lara cared about or even knew about the pain part, either. The entire sequence suffers from the problem it have taken all of 3 seconds to tell her what he planned, but then she can't attack him.

    I'm kind of wondering if there's even a way to release prisoners and if there is what does it entail. You wouldn't want to make it easy to let anything out of that place.
    Harry specifies Thomas is to be held in stasis until he returns to release him, and he isn't corrected by Demonreach over that. He could probably just order him released.

    Demonreach:
    Harry specifically has thoughts about Demonreach keeping things from him. So it being silent means nothing. Not that you're wrong either, we just lack the information to tell at this point.

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  • RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    Demonreach, Peacetalks
    What if Alfred was Nemesis infected all along!

    Though we do know that Dresden has now given the island two names, and that naming things can change them/has power. Would Demonreach be able to protect itself if Harry wasn't a starborn and was infected?

    Actually, does what we've learned about the starborn jive with all of the Nemesis stuff from Cold Days? Why does Mother Summer warn him about attracting the attention of Nemesis if he's immune?

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  • WhiteZinfandelWhiteZinfandel Registered User regular
    Peace Talks
    I wish Lara had responded a bit more intelligently to seeing Thomas more or less get disintegrated (from her perspective) but I can rationalize that by saying that she'd had a long and physically/emotionally taxing day of getting beat to shit by the Einherjar, conducting the rescue, being confronted with an emergent existential threat in Ethniu, and giving Thomas much of her energy on the boat so he would recover.

    It's a recurring theme in the book for powerful and normally controlled characters to hit an emotional trigger and make a bad decision. Ethniu said the right things, then Mab lost her cool and (IIRC) just ran straight at her in a blind rage and got fucked up. Ebenezar's past traumas regarding the White Court Vampires were so strong that he tried to kill Lara+Thomas, lost control, and did accidentally kill Harry's body-double. Lara, at the end of a long shitty exhausting day, saw Harry vaporize the brother she had more of an emotional tie to than she liked to admit... and just bumrushed him on his home turf. It fits. I don't entirely like it, but it fits.

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  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    Ringo wrote: »
    Demonreach, Peacetalks
    What if Alfred was Nemesis infected all along!

    Though we do know that Dresden has now given the island two names, and that naming things can change them/has power. Would Demonreach be able to protect itself if Harry wasn't a starborn and was infected?

    Actually, does what we've learned about the starborn jive with all of the Nemesis stuff from Cold Days? Why does Mother Summer warn him about attracting the attention of Nemesis if he's immune?
    He's immune to getting whammied by Nemesis mind bullets.
    But he's not immune to getting real bulleted by people mind-whammied by Nemesis.

    steam_sig.png
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  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    Peace Talks
    I wish Lara had responded a bit more intelligently to seeing Thomas more or less get disintegrated (from her perspective) but I can rationalize that by saying that she'd had a long and physically/emotionally taxing day of getting beat to shit by the Einherjar, conducting the rescue, being confronted with an emergent existential threat in Ethniu, and giving Thomas much of her energy on the boat so he would recover.

    It's a recurring theme in the book for powerful and normally controlled characters to hit an emotional trigger and make a bad decision. Ethniu said the right things, then Mab lost her cool and (IIRC) just ran straight at her in a blind rage and got fucked up. Ebenezar's past traumas regarding the White Court Vampires were so strong that he tried to kill Lara+Thomas, lost control, and did accidentally kill Harry's body-double. Lara, at the end of a long shitty exhausting day, saw Harry vaporize the brother she had more of an emotional tie to than she liked to admit... and just bumrushed him on his home turf. It fits. I don't entirely like it, but it fits.

    The action is not the problem, though: (Peace talks)
    It's the setup leading to it. Of which there was none. Harry didn't mention this at all during the plan? Lara would totally agree to "Safe and out of reach for awhile or death.". Even if she didn't like it.

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • LorekLorek Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Peace Talks
    I wish Lara had responded a bit more intelligently to seeing Thomas more or less get disintegrated (from her perspective) but I can rationalize that by saying that she'd had a long and physically/emotionally taxing day of getting beat to shit by the Einherjar, conducting the rescue, being confronted with an emergent existential threat in Ethniu, and giving Thomas much of her energy on the boat so he would recover.

    It's a recurring theme in the book for powerful and normally controlled characters to hit an emotional trigger and make a bad decision. Ethniu said the right things, then Mab lost her cool and (IIRC) just ran straight at her in a blind rage and got fucked up. Ebenezar's past traumas regarding the White Court Vampires were so strong that he tried to kill Lara+Thomas, lost control, and did accidentally kill Harry's body-double. Lara, at the end of a long shitty exhausting day, saw Harry vaporize the brother she had more of an emotional tie to than she liked to admit... and just bumrushed him on his home turf. It fits. I don't entirely like it, but it fits.

    The action is not the problem, though: (Peace talks)
    It's the setup leading to it. Of which there was none. Harry didn't mention this at all during the plan? Lara would totally agree to "Safe and out of reach for awhile or death.". Even if she didn't like it.
    Are we all forgetting the part where Lara's first thought is she is actually not OK with this obvious plan by the insidious Harry Dresden to have leverage over her and basically link his continued survival to Thomas'?

    Lorek on
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  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    we can't quantify some things but...
    she fed on that guard during the rescue, even if she passed energy to Thomas i don't think she was starved or out of control. At least, the way it is written it came across, to me, that butcher needed lara and harry to be antagonistic to each other, instead of cooperative and circumstances landed that way. Events didn't naturally build to it.

    kimeDevoutlyApathetic
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    Lorek wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Peace Talks
    I wish Lara had responded a bit more intelligently to seeing Thomas more or less get disintegrated (from her perspective) but I can rationalize that by saying that she'd had a long and physically/emotionally taxing day of getting beat to shit by the Einherjar, conducting the rescue, being confronted with an emergent existential threat in Ethniu, and giving Thomas much of her energy on the boat so he would recover.

    It's a recurring theme in the book for powerful and normally controlled characters to hit an emotional trigger and make a bad decision. Ethniu said the right things, then Mab lost her cool and (IIRC) just ran straight at her in a blind rage and got fucked up. Ebenezar's past traumas regarding the White Court Vampires were so strong that he tried to kill Lara+Thomas, lost control, and did accidentally kill Harry's body-double. Lara, at the end of a long shitty exhausting day, saw Harry vaporize the brother she had more of an emotional tie to than she liked to admit... and just bumrushed him on his home turf. It fits. I don't entirely like it, but it fits.

    The action is not the problem, though: (Peace talks)
    It's the setup leading to it. Of which there was none. Harry didn't mention this at all during the plan? Lara would totally agree to "Safe and out of reach for awhile or death.". Even if she didn't like it.
    Are we all forgetting the part where Lara's first thought is she is actually not OK with this obvious plan by the insidious Harry Dresden to have leverage over her and basically link his continued survival to Thomas'?

    Because, again, there was no set up. If there was that wouldn't happen either.

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • GiantGeek2020GiantGeek2020 Registered User regular
    Regarding Demonreach island
    I just been relistening to Proven Guilty and Murphy accuses Harry of loving to dance around questions and withhold information when he knew something that other people didn't and he responds it's like heroin for wizards. I just wonder if Jim is playing off that so that it comes back and bites Harry in the ass

    3. A surprisingly small number of adults have attempted the largely successful, “Punch the small children to escape” tactic.
    TarantioElvenshaeBlackDragon480
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Pailryder wrote: »
    we can't quantify some things but...
    she fed on that guard during the rescue, even if she passed energy to Thomas i don't think she was starved or out of control. At least, the way it is written it came across, to me, that butcher needed lara and harry to be antagonistic to each other, instead of cooperative and circumstances landed that way. Events didn't naturally build to it.

    Just like
    The Warden confrontation
    and the
    Blackstaff having a fucking hissy fit.

    There is just so much of it in the book that feels baseless. I suppose Battlegrounds could reveal this to be A Thing but even then....I dunno.

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
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  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    Peace Talks:
    McCoy losing it was at least built up some. Even if the end of the fight was a bit clunky, it at least started from a base that was established.

    The Blackstaff isn't even wrong. Lara is going to fuck him over sooner or later. Thomas is (probably) unique in being able to trust a White. And even he gets iffy if he gets Hungry.

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
    Elvenshae
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