I'm playing this a bit more now that database wipes aren't supposed to happen with every patch, so I can at least start acquiring the prospector and some combat ships ingame (after 3.10 drops). Sucks that salvage is still n+1 years out, even though it was 1 patch away on the roadmap for the last 2 years...
If the stars align I'll be hunting combat quests in a Hammerhead with @DaMoonRulz and one or two more this upcoming Sunday, if anyone is interested in riding along, flying, or shooting claim jumpers. It even has 40 cargo units for drug-running!
If the stars align I'll be hunting combat quests in a Hammerhead with @DaMoonRulz and one or two more this upcoming Sunday, if anyone is interested in riding along, flying, or shooting claim jumpers. It even has 40 cargo units for drug-running!
I'm busy that morning, but would love to get in on the action if you're doing it in the afternoon. What time zone are you guys in?
If the stars align I'll be hunting combat quests in a Hammerhead with @DaMoonRulz and one or two more this upcoming Sunday, if anyone is interested in riding along, flying, or shooting claim jumpers. It even has 40 cargo units for drug-running!
I'm busy that morning, but would love to get in on the action if you're doing it in the afternoon. What time zone are you guys in?
New flight model with an actual difference from space to atmosphere. Ships with actual VTOL capability will have a much better go of it. Potentially people will start talking of moons and planets in terms of gravity and atmo, or storms.
Well the new patch is out on the PTU so you can go and see how your ships perform.
Current bug: wind effects inside closed hangars. If it's windy outside, my drake herald CANNOT take off. With its tall cross-section, it literally gets blown over like a shipping truck on a windy highway. Inside the hangar. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
They certainly have achieved their goal of making different ships feel like they handle differently in atmosphere. It's also very clear that most of these ships were not designed with this flight model in mind.
The one thing that's unambiguously a negative for me is that decoupled mode no longer attempts to compensate for gravity. No more dropping into the landing pad on Port Olisar with the correct orientation at a nice, smooth glide and then hitting the spacebrake to cut speed before touching down. Or slowly bringing your starfarer into a tight hangar, goosing the translation buttons to keep your prograde lined up, then tapping the translate down key while applying some reverse thrust to bring it down with a feather's touch. :chef'skiss:
Now if you're decoupled and get too close, the pad's gravplates will slam your ass down like a brick. So if you don't want that, you have to be coupled - which I've always found to be an ugly way to land compared to a decoupled touchdown.
e: Note, I'm fine with this on planets. Where it kills my soul are space pads.
Sounds like the space pads ought to be zero g areas, and the ships should have magnetic gear. At least, that would make sense to me. But as far as I know, CIG have no plans for any kind of magnetic gear. Which is a pity. It'd be fun to lock onto random asteroids and larger ships.
Since the fictional artificial gravity in Star Citizen functions by powered grav-plates, yeah, you'd think a station would turn off AG for ships that are landing and taking off.
Heck, you'd think they'd keep it low or off in the inbetween, too, to make loading and unloading cargo easier.
It's just as hand-wavey as most soft sci-fi is, but it's cool that they gave some sort of answer.
I think my favorite artificial gravity lore is from Space Hulk (a Space Hulk is a colossal smashed together conglomeration of hundreds or thousands of wrecked starships, space stations, and asteroids that drift through space) in Warhammer 40k. A lot of times the reactors on many of the ships are still active, and are still powering their individual artificial gravity systems. Since they're smashed together at all sorts of different orientations it creates tons of weird gravity anomolies, as well as periodic earthquakes (called hulkquakes).
Since the fictional artificial gravity in Star Citizen functions by powered grav-plates, yeah, you'd think a station would turn off AG for ships that are landing and taking off.
Heck, you'd think they'd keep it low or off in the inbetween, too, to make loading and unloading cargo easier.
I would think you'd have grav plates engage on contact and only disengage on launch clearance, with any final orientation/landing assist being provided by tractor beam.
But in implemention terms, I'm assuming that gravity plates don't exist, and object containers just have a force constant that is universally applied to their children, so they might not be able to suspend gravity on a single pad without switching it off for the whole station/section.
Since the fictional artificial gravity in Star Citizen functions by powered grav-plates, yeah, you'd think a station would turn off AG for ships that are landing and taking off.
Heck, you'd think they'd keep it low or off in the inbetween, too, to make loading and unloading cargo easier.
I would think you'd have grav plates engage on contact and only disengage on launch clearance, with any final orientation/landing assist being provided by tractor beam.
But in implemention terms, I'm assuming that gravity plates don't exist, and object containers just have a force constant that is universally applied to their children, so they might not be able to suspend gravity on a single pad without switching it off for the whole station/section.
Pretty sure they can. There's a bar in one of the Lagrange points that doesn't have gravity. A mistake, obviously, but shows that connected pieces don't necessarily have to share the same gravity wells.
Whether or not it could be actively toggled, though... That's something else entirely.
Since the fictional artificial gravity in Star Citizen functions by powered grav-plates, yeah, you'd think a station would turn off AG for ships that are landing and taking off.
Heck, you'd think they'd keep it low or off in the inbetween, too, to make loading and unloading cargo easier.
I would think you'd have grav plates engage on contact and only disengage on launch clearance, with any final orientation/landing assist being provided by tractor beam.
But in implemention terms, I'm assuming that gravity plates don't exist, and object containers just have a force constant that is universally applied to their children, so they might not be able to suspend gravity on a single pad without switching it off for the whole station/section.
Pretty sure they can. There's a bar in one of the Lagrange points that doesn't have gravity. A mistake, obviously, but shows that connected pieces don't necessarily have to share the same gravity wells.
Maybe that's just how they do last call. Lights on, gravity off, you don't have to go home but you can't float here.
Whether or not it could be actively toggled, though... That's something else entirely.
I've never worked with cry or Lumberyard, but it would seem weird if it wasn't as simple as changing a single global value and the individual physics controllers handle* the rest.
I'm assuming anything separated airlocks and those internal hallway chicanes are different zones, and that, therefore, PO's landing struts are currently zones unto themselves, but I could certainly be wrong about every facet of that assumption.
However, it would follow that they could already do this for internal hangars, if it's actually as straightforward as that, but I guess then you'd have to deal with all the unintended consequences of being able to turn hangars into 0g funzones and how that effects everything that isn't the intended ship.
(Should have gone with at least some magnets!)
*Fake edit: Now that I read back "let the individual physics controllers handle frequent changes in an otherwise constant global force vector" I'm just imagining the suspense of touching down in a hangar where anything not nailed down has a chance of exploding or clipping through the floor the moment you do.
Or they could just tell us in plain English, right?
Who is asking for a cutting edge, super sophisciated web-enabled roadmap designed to push the boundaries of what roadmap technologies are available today and completely redefine what gamers believe a roadmap can be?
I guess the upside to the delay is that we can all work on upgrading our machines so that we're ready to view the roadmap in it's full glory, and not have to turn down all the settings. Rumor is this is going to be the highest fidelity roadmap mankind has ever viewed.
The new flight model raises the obvious question of why doesn't every ship have aero-surfaces since atmo can have such a huge effect on performance for ships without them.
Like, before the logic was that thrusters were so powerful that things like aerodynamics were a minor concern. That's not really the case anymore.
I get that it's closer to the desired result, but the new atmospheric flight model just feels like a blanket nerf to all ships and a punishment for landing on a planet.
Or they could just tell us in plain English, right?
Who is asking for a cutting edge, super sophisciated web-enabled roadmap designed to push the boundaries of what roadmap technologies are available today and completely redefine what gamers believe a roadmap can be?
I guess the upside to the delay is that we can all work on upgrading our machines so that we're ready to view the roadmap in it's full glory, and not have to turn down all the settings. Rumor is this is going to be the highest fidelity roadmap mankind has ever viewed.
making games is hard, making promises about a game and taking money for jpgs is much easier
edit: tier-0 roadmap implementation
SCREECH OF THE FARG on
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NEO|PhyteThey follow the stars, bound together.Strands in a braid till the end.Registered Userregular
The new flight model raises the obvious question of why doesn't every ship have aero-surfaces since atmo can have such a huge effect on performance for ships without them.
Like, before the logic was that thrusters were so powerful that things like aerodynamics were a minor concern. That's not really the case anymore.
Why SHOULD every ship be atmo-capable? Aerodynamics are expensive to engineer into a flying brick, if you wanna go hug dirt, get a ship that's designed for it.
It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
Yeah. I don't actually mind the fact that some ships will handle like ass in atmosphere. It adds a little twist to it...trying to make a quick escape from pirates or the law...if your ship handles well in atmosphere and theirs doesn't, take a quick detour around a planet and lose them in the atmosphere.
EDIT: Of course, it does sometime make it feel disjointed. Super high tech, FTL travel? Yes. Overcoming a stiff breeze while flying in atmosphere? Impossible.
NEO|PhyteThey follow the stars, bound together.Strands in a braid till the end.Registered Userregular
Sidenote, new patch out, are salvage mechanics still pushed back or is it time to dust off my install?
It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
It would've been more bizarre to me to have ships just ignore atmosphere. Having fancy-ass spaceships that still can't just outright ignore every scrap of basic physics is something that not only grounds the gameplay in a way I like, it creates a space for more specialized craft to excel and that's also something I like.
Now if there is something like a pirate base, the pirates can use atmosphere and atmosphere-adept ships as an extra layer of easy protection. Sure, it only takes a couple minutes to punch out into space, but if you want to face down those pirates and do something about their base, you have to go down there and do something about it. At the same time, those pirate ships have now all invested mass and volume in ships with aerodynamic features that don't do anything for them in space, pitching advantage towards space-focused ships if they want to raid somebody.
Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
Yes, there are smaller ships that are designed for passengers or cargo that will fit into larger ships that may be inconvenient to drop into atmosphere and land.
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
So will current ship designs have to go through another design pass to accommodate the new flight model or will they just create a series of designs that will be more effective than existing ships? It just feels like additional feature creep for Realism(tm) that is testing the limits of the sunk cost fallacy.
Black lives matter.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
So will current ship designs have to go through another design pass to accommodate the new flight model or will they just create a series of designs that will be more effective than existing ships? It just feels like additional feature creep for Realism(tm) that is testing the limits of the sunk cost fallacy.
There are already a bunch of ships that, at least on a glance, look like they'd be just fine in atmospheric flight, ranging from small single-seat strike craft (Hornet, Sabre, Gladius, etc...) to larger multi-crew ships (Retaliator, Valkyrie, (maybe) Carrack, etc...), so I don't know why there'd be another design pass for the ships that aren't great in atmosphere. I dunno...to me, it makes sense for there to be some ships being good in atmosphere, while others are not.
Erlkönig on
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
The effect of some ships being better in atmosphere than others is a feature, not a bug.
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
I would have made difference choices in ship packages if atmospheric performance was a bullet point to consider years ago. Maybe that's just me though.
Black lives matter.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
How is the Aurora in atmosphere? Those giant fans should count for something.
I think I'm going to reinstall today and fire it up this evening. There is something about warping to a planet on the other side of the galaxy, then coming in from orbit, and flying all the way down to the surface in one smooth transition that no other game I have seems to be able to replicate well.
They conveniently removed the Port Olisar start at the same time, so if all you have is something that doesn't maneuver well in air, every time it loses your character (a lot) you're consigned back to Area 18/New Babbage/Lorville. I suppose the assumption is that anyone who's shelled out that kind of money will have a fighter or something too.
I dunno, a constant point of frustration I have with the development is that they'll put in what they admit are first passes at systems without adding some sort of accompanying bypass in case it doesn't work - for example, there should be a commercial shuttle between Tressler and New Babbage, already implemented, before they make it a bear to land on Microtech.
They conveniently removed the Port Olisar start at the same time, so if all you have is something that doesn't maneuver well in air, every time it loses your character (a lot) you're consigned back to Area 18/New Babbage/Lorville. I suppose the assumption is that anyone who's shelled out that kind of money will have a fighter or something too.
I dunno, a constant point of frustration I have with the development is that they'll put in what they admit are first passes at systems without adding some sort of accompanying bypass in case it doesn't work - for example, there should be a commercial shuttle between Tressler and New Babbage, already implemented, before they make it a bear to land on Microtech.
I wonder...
Now, I admit I haven't used their job system all that much lately, but an easy quick shuttle-system would be to make it so people can offer transport jobs to other players. For example, I could definitely hold around 20 passengers in my Valkyrie. It won't be comfortable (and I'll have to fight the urge to open the back every second we're in QD), but it'd be a neat little player-driven infrastructure solution.
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
The Drake Herald is an amusing one in atmosphere. Even for its 'flying brick with a giant engine strapped to it' design, it rotates... uncommonly slow, especially at high speeds. Like I think it might take genuinely a full minute to do a rotation. Might be a natural consequence of its high top speed and relatively low aerosurface area.
Delivery missions are ass, now. If they even pay out at all, which none of the attempts I've made today have done so.
So will current ship designs have to go through another design pass to accommodate the new flight model or will they just create a series of designs that will be more effective than existing ships? It just feels like additional feature creep for Realism(tm) that is testing the limits of the sunk cost fallacy.
There are already a bunch of ships that, at least on a glance, look like they'd be just fine in atmospheric flight, ranging from small single-seat strike craft (Hornet, Sabre, Gladius, etc...) to larger multi-crew ships (Retaliator, Valkyrie, (maybe) Carrack, etc...), so I don't know why there'd be another design pass for the ships that aren't great in atmosphere. I dunno...to me, it makes sense for there to be some ships being good in atmosphere, while others are not.
Yeah it's a pretty intentional distinction that they've poured a lot into. I could see a few airframes getting a pass to tweak unintended behavior, but they could probably just dial back the overall effect if they decide it generally detracts from gameplay.
I'm just dying to see if the next logical step into the uncanny valley of Star Citizen's setting is ships designed to primarily operate in an atmosphere.
They conveniently removed the Port Olisar start at the same time, so if all you have is something that doesn't maneuver well in air, every time it loses your character (a lot) you're consigned back to Area 18/New Babbage/Lorville. I suppose the assumption is that anyone who's shelled out that kind of money will have a fighter or something too.
I dunno, a constant point of frustration I have with the development is that they'll put in what they admit are first passes at systems without adding some sort of accompanying bypass in case it doesn't work - for example, there should be a commercial shuttle between Tressler and New Babbage, already implemented, before they make it a bear to land on Microtech.
I wonder...
Now, I admit I haven't used their job system all that much lately, but an easy quick shuttle-system would be to make it so people can offer transport jobs to other players. For example, I could definitely hold around 20 passengers in my Valkyrie. It won't be comfortable (and I'll have to fight the urge to open the back every second we're in QD), but it'd be a neat little player-driven infrastructure solution.
Everybody standing around with their crates of contraband, waiting to catch the next bus to Smuggler's Junction
The Drake Herald is an amusing one in atmosphere. Even for its 'flying brick with a giant engine strapped to it' design, it rotates... uncommonly slow, especially at high speeds. Like I think it might take genuinely a full minute to do a rotation. Might be a natural consequence of its high top speed and relatively low aerosurface area.
Delivery missions are ass, now. If they even pay out at all, which none of the attempts I've made today have done so.
I remember reading that dynamic control surfaces weren't going to be in the first release, and we're still going to be reliant on maneuvering thrusters; is that basically your situation?
The Herald seems like it could get a lot of manueverability from some air brakes.
Posts
I'm busy that morning, but would love to get in on the action if you're doing it in the afternoon. What time zone are you guys in?
New Vanduul ship designs
Mountain, Central, and Eastern.
Edit:
New flight model with an actual difference from space to atmosphere. Ships with actual VTOL capability will have a much better go of it. Potentially people will start talking of moons and planets in terms of gravity and atmo, or storms.
Edit2: @DaMoonRulz and I are screwing around now if you're interested, @SmokeStacks.
@Elvenshae
Edit3: We die a lot outside of the Hammerhead.
Do I have access to the digital soundtrack in my account or is the reward meant to be for a physical copy?
Current bug: wind effects inside closed hangars. If it's windy outside, my drake herald CANNOT take off. With its tall cross-section, it literally gets blown over like a shipping truck on a windy highway. Inside the hangar. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
They certainly have achieved their goal of making different ships feel like they handle differently in atmosphere. It's also very clear that most of these ships were not designed with this flight model in mind.
The one thing that's unambiguously a negative for me is that decoupled mode no longer attempts to compensate for gravity. No more dropping into the landing pad on Port Olisar with the correct orientation at a nice, smooth glide and then hitting the spacebrake to cut speed before touching down. Or slowly bringing your starfarer into a tight hangar, goosing the translation buttons to keep your prograde lined up, then tapping the translate down key while applying some reverse thrust to bring it down with a feather's touch. :chef'skiss:
Now if you're decoupled and get too close, the pad's gravplates will slam your ass down like a brick. So if you don't want that, you have to be coupled - which I've always found to be an ugly way to land compared to a decoupled touchdown.
e: Note, I'm fine with this on planets. Where it kills my soul are space pads.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
Heck, you'd think they'd keep it low or off in the inbetween, too, to make loading and unloading cargo easier.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
It's one of those things that are so far out of reach of modern technology, but are literally everywhere in sci-fi.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/spectrum-dispatch/14287-LORE-BUILDER-TWENTY-ONE-ARTIFICIAL-GRAVITY
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
I think my favorite artificial gravity lore is from Space Hulk (a Space Hulk is a colossal smashed together conglomeration of hundreds or thousands of wrecked starships, space stations, and asteroids that drift through space) in Warhammer 40k. A lot of times the reactors on many of the ships are still active, and are still powering their individual artificial gravity systems. Since they're smashed together at all sorts of different orientations it creates tons of weird gravity anomolies, as well as periodic earthquakes (called hulkquakes).
I would think you'd have grav plates engage on contact and only disengage on launch clearance, with any final orientation/landing assist being provided by tractor beam.
But in implemention terms, I'm assuming that gravity plates don't exist, and object containers just have a force constant that is universally applied to their children, so they might not be able to suspend gravity on a single pad without switching it off for the whole station/section.
Pretty sure they can. There's a bar in one of the Lagrange points that doesn't have gravity. A mistake, obviously, but shows that connected pieces don't necessarily have to share the same gravity wells.
Whether or not it could be actively toggled, though... That's something else entirely.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
sigh
I've never worked with cry or Lumberyard, but it would seem weird if it wasn't as simple as changing a single global value and the individual physics controllers handle* the rest.
I'm assuming anything separated airlocks and those internal hallway chicanes are different zones, and that, therefore, PO's landing struts are currently zones unto themselves, but I could certainly be wrong about every facet of that assumption.
However, it would follow that they could already do this for internal hangars, if it's actually as straightforward as that, but I guess then you'd have to deal with all the unintended consequences of being able to turn hangars into 0g funzones and how that effects everything that isn't the intended ship.
(Should have gone with at least some magnets!)
*Fake edit: Now that I read back "let the individual physics controllers handle frequent changes in an otherwise constant global force vector" I'm just imagining the suspense of touching down in a hangar where anything not nailed down has a chance of exploding or clipping through the floor the moment you do.
Or they could just tell us in plain English, right?
Who is asking for a cutting edge, super sophisciated web-enabled roadmap designed to push the boundaries of what roadmap technologies are available today and completely redefine what gamers believe a roadmap can be?
I guess the upside to the delay is that we can all work on upgrading our machines so that we're ready to view the roadmap in it's full glory, and not have to turn down all the settings. Rumor is this is going to be the highest fidelity roadmap mankind has ever viewed.
Like, before the logic was that thrusters were so powerful that things like aerodynamics were a minor concern. That's not really the case anymore.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
making games is hard, making promises about a game and taking money for jpgs is much easier
edit: tier-0 roadmap implementation
Why SHOULD every ship be atmo-capable? Aerodynamics are expensive to engineer into a flying brick, if you wanna go hug dirt, get a ship that's designed for it.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
EDIT: Of course, it does sometime make it feel disjointed. Super high tech, FTL travel? Yes. Overcoming a stiff breeze while flying in atmosphere? Impossible.
"waves his hands at nothing"
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
Now if there is something like a pirate base, the pirates can use atmosphere and atmosphere-adept ships as an extra layer of easy protection. Sure, it only takes a couple minutes to punch out into space, but if you want to face down those pirates and do something about their base, you have to go down there and do something about it. At the same time, those pirate ships have now all invested mass and volume in ships with aerodynamic features that don't do anything for them in space, pitching advantage towards space-focused ships if they want to raid somebody.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
There are already a bunch of ships that, at least on a glance, look like they'd be just fine in atmospheric flight, ranging from small single-seat strike craft (Hornet, Sabre, Gladius, etc...) to larger multi-crew ships (Retaliator, Valkyrie, (maybe) Carrack, etc...), so I don't know why there'd be another design pass for the ships that aren't great in atmosphere. I dunno...to me, it makes sense for there to be some ships being good in atmosphere, while others are not.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
I think I'm going to reinstall today and fire it up this evening. There is something about warping to a planet on the other side of the galaxy, then coming in from orbit, and flying all the way down to the surface in one smooth transition that no other game I have seems to be able to replicate well.
I dunno, a constant point of frustration I have with the development is that they'll put in what they admit are first passes at systems without adding some sort of accompanying bypass in case it doesn't work - for example, there should be a commercial shuttle between Tressler and New Babbage, already implemented, before they make it a bear to land on Microtech.
I wonder...
Now, I admit I haven't used their job system all that much lately, but an easy quick shuttle-system would be to make it so people can offer transport jobs to other players. For example, I could definitely hold around 20 passengers in my Valkyrie. It won't be comfortable (and I'll have to fight the urge to open the back every second we're in QD), but it'd be a neat little player-driven infrastructure solution.
Delivery missions are ass, now. If they even pay out at all, which none of the attempts I've made today have done so.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
I'm just dying to see if the next logical step into the uncanny valley of Star Citizen's setting is ships designed to primarily operate in an atmosphere.
Some sort of "air-ships," if you will.
Everybody standing around with their crates of contraband, waiting to catch the next bus to Smuggler's Junction
----
I remember reading that dynamic control surfaces weren't going to be in the first release, and we're still going to be reliant on maneuvering thrusters; is that basically your situation?
The Herald seems like it could get a lot of manueverability from some air brakes.