Wasn't there a whole thing where Olivia Olson was basically forced to walk back comments about What Was Missing having queer subtext and then was kept from doing any press stuff for a while?
what I remember from that:
they had some official youtube after show or something along those lines that pretty explicitly called marceline and bubblegum out as being exes, and the show had to issue a retraction after cartoon network yelled at them
later, I think they were much more open with what was going on there in the comics and they let people involved in the show talk about it (and the show started throwing more hints out there) but they didn't officially do anything in the show until the series finale
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JimothyNot in front of the foxhe's with the owlRegistered Userregular
edited August 2020
I don't think of it as being some great boon for representation at all, all I can say is that at the time it was airing it was definitely noticeably there, and I abhor the fandom's shipping discussions
Like right from the jump in Book 3 you get "I've never had a girlfriend before" and that felt like "oh they know what they're doing there." It was immediately obvious to me that the writers were planting seeds, even though it seemed unlikely that they'd be able to get away with it.
By the time the series finale was about to come out, I remember being completely torn because there was far too much build up to ignore and if the show's writers were as good as I considered them to be, Korra and Asami getting together was the only logical romantic conclusion. But I didn't think Nick would allow anything like that and I was worried there'd be a last minute swerve to Korra/Mako even though they had been demonstrated not to work as a couple (I think the HIMYM finale was still fresh)
And then for years afterward everyone on the ATLA/Korra forum I moderated thought it was terrible and came out of nowhere but in a way that to me read that maybe this particular forum was more conservative than I'd realized. I remember thinking that you'd have to have some very heteronormative goggles on to not have seen all the buildup
Though now yes, our standards are rightfully much higher. The fact that we don't get the kiss at the end is silly, even if they cover it somewhat artfully
Fellow co-creator Bryan Konietzko, meanwhile, suggested that the pair wanted to show the pair kissing, but were held back by Nickelodeon. He wrote on his Tumblr: "We approached the network and while they were supportive there was a limit to how far we could go with it."
Like, that's a pretty fucking blatant bit of text that Nick forced them to cut. Maybe they don't get points, but it's not something that should really be up for debate on whether it's legit or not.
Wasn't there a whole thing where Olivia Olson was basically forced to walk back comments about What Was Missing having queer subtext and then was kept from doing any press stuff for a while?
I believe this is also part of what helped Rebecca Sugar make her decision to leave and go make one of the gayest cartoons we've ever gotten to have
So many just losing their minds the second Asami is on the screen. It really takes me back. EVERYBODY was talking about the potential for Korrasami in the days leading up to the finale but I think everybody was just as resigned. Then she shows up right near the end and grabs the last scene of the show and its like, is this real? Is this really happening? Can't be.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Man, season 4 of Korra starts off Talespin as fuck
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Wasn't there a whole thing where Olivia Olson was basically forced to walk back comments about What Was Missing having queer subtext and then was kept from doing any press stuff for a while?
I believe this is also part of what helped Rebecca Sugar make her decision to leave and go make one of the gayest cartoons we've ever gotten to have
it's very funny to me that after all the hubbub with the korra stuff, Steven Universe aired "Jailbreak" like a few weeks later
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Wasn't there a whole thing where Olivia Olson was basically forced to walk back comments about What Was Missing having queer subtext and then was kept from doing any press stuff for a while?
I believe this is also part of what helped Rebecca Sugar make her decision to leave and go make one of the gayest cartoons we've ever gotten to have
it's very funny to me that after all the hubbub with the korra stuff, Steven Universe aired "Jailbreak" like a few weeks later
I was not aware that those aired concurrently.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
They were a little further apart than that. The series finale of Korra was in December 2014, and Jailbreak aired in March 2015. Still pretty close together, though.
Seems like people really forced the Korra-Asami thing to be a thing. Really isn't much there
All of Korra spoiler
I strongly on this one. I kind of chuckled at the line in the Season 3 opener as it felt very much like tumblr bait for the shippers. As the season went on there kept being more and more signs that something was going on. Nothing super overt I guess, but clearly unmistakable flirty stuff.
The end of Season 3 had definite and unmistakable moments. I remember distinctly thinking that if they even hint at something there at the end of Season 4 I would be satisfied. By the end of Season 4 I was upset they didn't go farther than they did. They did a LOT of shit in there to build it up. It was absolutely no surprise to me at all that Season 4 was when Nick started playing extremely funny games with them because LGBT stuff in a kids cartoon was definitely abnormal. I think any more overt and the show just gets thrown in a dumpster.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Avatar Korra season 4
So I take it Kuvira is the new big bad? Because she abolished a shitty monarchy?
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Seasons three and four of Korra both aired exclusively online at first, and I think large chunks of one of the season leaked out early because they fucked up programming their site or something? They started fucking with the scheduling of the show basically immediately, though, because Nickelodeon has never really known what to do with shows that are in any way serialized
Seasons three and four of Korra both aired exclusively online at first, and I think large chunks of one of the season leaked out early because they fucked up programming their site or something? They started fucking with the scheduling of the show basically immediately, though, because Nickelodeon has never really known what to do with shows that are in any way serialized
I distinctly remember for weeks S3 of Korra did not air on the same day or time where I was. I remember the back half was released all online. I don't remember exact times but it was something like week 1 was Tuesday @ 7. Week 2 was Monday @ 5. Week 3 was Friday @ 4.
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BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
So I take it Kuvira is the new big bad? Because she abolished a shitty monarchy?
I was actually coming here to post about this myself. I don't remember having such mixed feelings about this stuff when the show aired...but I was a much different person back then.
Kuvira is ALMOST right. Again. But once again the bad guys here have the right idea but don't stop at "We should abolish monarchies" and keep going into full "I will crush any who don't want to live under my rule and do exactly as I say" territory. If Kuvira was doing what she claimed in the first few episodes to be doing, what Bolin thought she was doing, then she would have been a damn hero, fuck the Kings and Queens, but also fuck fascist dictators. It feels weird, like, I don't want Wu to be king, fuck him hes garbage, but I want someone better then "I will destroy you with my super weapon" Kuvira as well. Bolin and Opal should be the duly elected power couple in charge of the Earth Kingdom.
So I take it Kuvira is the new big bad? Because she abolished a shitty monarchy?
I was actually coming here to post about this myself. I don't remember having such mixed feelings about this stuff when the show aired...but I was a much different person back then.
Kuvira is ALMOST right. Again. But once again the bad guys here have the right idea but don't stop at "We should abolish monarchies" and keep going into full "I will crush any who don't want to live under my rule and do exactly as I say" territory. If Kuvira was doing what she claimed in the first few episodes to be doing, what Bolin thought she was doing, then she would have been a damn hero, fuck the Kings and Queens, but also fuck fascist dictators. It feels weird, like, I don't want Wu to be king, fuck him hes garbage, but I want someone better then "I will destroy you with my super weapon" Kuvira as well. Bolin and Opal should be the duly elected power couple in charge of the Earth Kingdom.
Korra S4 spoilers
There's a scene where they say, explicitly, that all of Korra's enemies have had a good point. The issue is that her enemies take their preferred fix way too far and end up a monster just as bad as what they were fighting against.
The show itself, likely for the scheduling reasons that have been covered, didn't dive into those points as much as would have been effective, but they did definitely hit them all.
You know, I think I know what bugs me about Korra so much. After the freedom in ATLA, seeing Korra so bound up in bureaucracy is frustrating. Seeing Tarlok wrongly arrest Korra's friends, and see Korra do nothing about it, is just crazy. Aang would have busted them out, or there would have been a bending battle. Instead, Korra does nothing and it's anti-climatic. Though we do get the Tarlok/Korra battle at the council building, no one is there to witness it and see that Korra is on the side of the people. Also, how did Katara not teach her defense against bloodbending?
I don't understand why people dislike the great divide so much.
It literally just really annoying filler
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StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
It feels overall lazy to me? Like, the real broad stroke slobs vs snobs side characters, the way too simple resolution, it's all a bit underwritten and cliche. I almost wonder if it would have been better if it was a multi-episode arc, but I wouldn't wish that on anyone either.
Also for me that is still primo hating Aang time, and hoo boy is it easy there.
They spent a good chunk of season three having Korra and Asami bond, and they had plenty of actual signs in season four. Korra only wrote to Asami when she was recovering, for one, and the episode where Korra meets up with Mako and Asami is loaded enough with subtext that Mako even comments on it, plus they get a whole segment to themselves in the clip show episode, before their big talk at the end of the series. It's, admittedly, not a lot, but it's definitely romantic in nature. It is definitely worth noting that both of the creators of the show know that they didn't do enough, but people were actively picking up on this stuff as the show aired.
I don't know if it's fair to say Adventure Time was doing more at the time, they...had one real episode that hinted at anything, and then they had to run screaming away from it for years. Steven Universe still hadn't really committed to anything until a few months after Legend of Korra ended, and they still had to fight pretty hard for that. And even then, with both Adventure Time and Steven Universe, the LGBT relationships did not involve the main character show.
Mako has zero emotional intelligence, Bolin is oblivious across the board, and Korra subconsciously resents the people taking care of her; Korra doesn't need to have a crush on Asami to recognize that she's the only viable outlet for any sort of serious feelings discussion. And Asami doesn't need to have a crush on Korra to reciprocate an injured, isolated friend's need for attention. Plus, y'know, it's pretty typical for women to be more at ease with other women just in general. I wouldn't have read it as romantic at all if I hadn't been told in advance that Korra/Asami ended up being a Thing somehow. And it doesn't build up from or into anything. Do Korra and Asami even have more than one substantiative scene together between then and the denouement?
I can't recall any specific interaction between Korra and Asami in season 3 period. And I just saw it a month ago, and I was keeping an eye out for lesbian stuff explicitly.
I absolutely would call What Was Missing gayer than Legend of Korra. I regret using the word "slightly", even. It has more verisimilitude even if it's technically less explicit. I'm struggling to even call planning a vacation and then holding hands for a quick sec "explicit". For all I remembered everyone getting into a tizzy over it at the time I assumed they must have at least kissed. Imagine my surprise when I finally saw it.
This is where I'm at. Like, there doesn't have to be romantic undercurrents for emotional supporting friends.
I think the pacing probably fucked it up. I didn't find the events for Korra and asami alone to compellingly point to romance.
Frankly I didn't think asami was even much of a character until like season 4 really, outside of season 1
Just finished LoK and got to thinking about an Avatar turn based RPG.
You essentially have 5 classes (fire bender, air bender, earth bender, water bender, non-bender) and each one has two-three subclasses you can focus on.
Air Bender: focus on energy projection (so maybe pull a bunch of spirits as support) or traditional air bending
Fire Bender: lightening, fire, combustion
Water Bender: healing, blood bending, water/ice bending
Earth Bender: Earth, metal, lava
Non Bender: chi blocking, martial arts, tech
Not sure how to balance it, but definitely something I've been thinking about since I finished AtLA/LoK over the past month.
Random musing on a moment in Airbender that really sticks with me even twelve years later, namely the Day of Black Sun.
In context, the place I hung out a lot in 2008 had some people saying that maybe Ozai's personal threat to the world was overstated. The Fire Nation as a whole needed to be brought to heel, but they theorised that Ozai would be mediocre as a bender, as the only bending we knew he had done was an horrific act of child abuse. It could be part of why he instilled Azula with her obsession with perfection, and Zuko's need for his approval, as a means of projecting his own insecurities about maybe how he came to power as (almost) shown in Zuko Alone. And hey, showing that the Fire Nation's culture had considerable problems beyond the ambition of a single family would be an interesting nuanced approach to the problem. These theorists even suggested Azula would do another Ba Sing Se and take power from her Father to give a traditional final boss on top of that.
Were these theories about nuance a pipedream? Sure. But the Day of Black Sun was a fantastic repudiation of the idea. The very instant the eclipse starts to end, Ozai does a lightning attack far quicker than we ever saw either Azula or Iroh perform, and in those two seconds the audience knows in a flash that if he can perform even better than the two most skilled firebenders we've been watching for years, then his personal threat is every bit as real as the characters thought. That always stuck with me, that sneak peak of what Aang would have to face.
Zuko showing how he'd mastered the redirection technique was just the icing on the cake.
Just finished LoK and got to thinking about an Avatar turn based RPG.
You essentially have 5 classes (fire bender, air bender, earth bender, water bender, non-bender) and each one has two-three subclasses you can focus on.
Air Bender: focus on energy projection (so maybe pull a bunch of spirits as support) or traditional air bending
Fire Bender: lightening, fire, combustion
Water Bender: healing, blood bending, water/ice bending
Earth Bender: Earth, metal, lava
Non Bender: chi blocking, martial arts, tech
Not sure how to balance it, but definitely something I've been thinking about since I finished AtLA/LoK over the past month.
Just a quickie, what if instead you had a skill tree growing out from your choice? So like, you pick Fire Bender, and then you can go up the branches of ‘control fire’, ‘kung fu’, ‘lightning bending‘ etc. as you please. The more narrow your focus the higher up a certain path you get, but being broad gives you more options.
This allows for vast array of abilities without dedicating a whole subclass to it. Like water bending and ice bending are next to each other, and you can hop between them as you level up, whereas healing might only need to be a small isolated branch of three techniques.
I don't understand why people dislike the great divide so much.
It having no bearing on the plot and just feeling like a one-off I Learned Something About Tolerance And Teamwork Or Whatever episode was a drawback, but have Odo as one of the voices was good (and better that he got a better role later on), and I liked the twist that Aang learned the True Meaning Of Friendship Lying To Get Idiots To Stop Being Stupid in the end.
That episode's greatest sin is that the writing is dull, in a show that otherwise earned praise for being a lot sharper than expected from a Nickelodeon action cartoon. It was not up to the same standard of writing at all, and you could have lifted that episode out and dropped it into any other crappy show seamlessly. It reveals nothing useful about the world or its lore, it offers no character or plot development, it takes place in a very visually uninteresting region, and it doesn't even have any memorable jokes or quotable lines. It just treads water for 20 minutes, focusing on group of dreary, deliberately unlikeable, one-note characters who will never be heard from or referenced again except to joke later about how tedious the whole experience was. And then the actual moral of the episode was that their conflict was so arbitrary, so contrived, so low-stakes, that it could be obliterated by one casual lie from a child.
Season one would have been undeniably stronger without it, and the only reason anyone ever watches it again is because they feel an obligation to view the entire series when doing a re-watch, or perhaps because of affection for Rene Auberjonois, even though it's far from his most compelling work.
Realizing lately that I don't really trust or respect basically any of the moderators here. So, good luck with life, friends! Hit me up on Twitter @DesertLeviathan
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
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what I remember from that:
later, I think they were much more open with what was going on there in the comics and they let people involved in the show talk about it (and the show started throwing more hints out there) but they didn't officially do anything in the show until the series finale
Like right from the jump in Book 3 you get "I've never had a girlfriend before" and that felt like "oh they know what they're doing there." It was immediately obvious to me that the writers were planting seeds, even though it seemed unlikely that they'd be able to get away with it.
By the time the series finale was about to come out, I remember being completely torn because there was far too much build up to ignore and if the show's writers were as good as I considered them to be, Korra and Asami getting together was the only logical romantic conclusion. But I didn't think Nick would allow anything like that and I was worried there'd be a last minute swerve to Korra/Mako even though they had been demonstrated not to work as a couple (I think the HIMYM finale was still fresh)
And then for years afterward everyone on the ATLA/Korra forum I moderated thought it was terrible and came out of nowhere but in a way that to me read that maybe this particular forum was more conservative than I'd realized. I remember thinking that you'd have to have some very heteronormative goggles on to not have seen all the buildup
Though now yes, our standards are rightfully much higher. The fact that we don't get the kiss at the end is silly, even if they cover it somewhat artfully
I believe this is also part of what helped Rebecca Sugar make her decision to leave and go make one of the gayest cartoons we've ever gotten to have
Fuck me I'm gonna be crying all day now.
it's very funny to me that after all the hubbub with the korra stuff, Steven Universe aired "Jailbreak" like a few weeks later
http://www.audioentropy.com/
I was not aware that those aired concurrently.
All of Korra spoiler
The end of Season 3 had definite and unmistakable moments. I remember distinctly thinking that if they even hint at something there at the end of Season 4 I would be satisfied. By the end of Season 4 I was upset they didn't go farther than they did. They did a LOT of shit in there to build it up. It was absolutely no surprise to me at all that Season 4 was when Nick started playing extremely funny games with them because LGBT stuff in a kids cartoon was definitely abnormal. I think any more overt and the show just gets thrown in a dumpster.
Wait no, that was S3 of the first series.
The Korra series got dealt a real rough hand, I'm just happy it wasn't dissapointingly terrible.
I distinctly remember for weeks S3 of Korra did not air on the same day or time where I was. I remember the back half was released all online. I don't remember exact times but it was something like week 1 was Tuesday @ 7. Week 2 was Monday @ 5. Week 3 was Friday @ 4.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
I was actually coming here to post about this myself. I don't remember having such mixed feelings about this stuff when the show aired...but I was a much different person back then.
Well
Korra S4 spoilers
The show itself, likely for the scheduling reasons that have been covered, didn't dive into those points as much as would have been effective, but they did definitely hit them all.
Book 2 is like when Toph finally shows up.
edit: Fixed
Its Zhu Li. I think they wanted to avoid comparisons to Ju Di
That makes more sense. I always thought they seemed similar sounding.
And he loved it.
It's one of his favorite episodes of the series so far.
PSN / Xbox / NNID: Fodder185
It literally just really annoying filler
Also for me that is still primo hating Aang time, and hoo boy is it easy there.
I think the pacing probably fucked it up. I didn't find the events for Korra and asami alone to compellingly point to romance.
Frankly I didn't think asami was even much of a character until like season 4 really, outside of season 1
You essentially have 5 classes (fire bender, air bender, earth bender, water bender, non-bender) and each one has two-three subclasses you can focus on.
Air Bender: focus on energy projection (so maybe pull a bunch of spirits as support) or traditional air bending
Fire Bender: lightening, fire, combustion
Water Bender: healing, blood bending, water/ice bending
Earth Bender: Earth, metal, lava
Non Bender: chi blocking, martial arts, tech
Not sure how to balance it, but definitely something I've been thinking about since I finished AtLA/LoK over the past month.
Coran Attack!
Were these theories about nuance a pipedream? Sure. But the Day of Black Sun was a fantastic repudiation of the idea. The very instant the eclipse starts to end, Ozai does a lightning attack far quicker than we ever saw either Azula or Iroh perform, and in those two seconds the audience knows in a flash that if he can perform even better than the two most skilled firebenders we've been watching for years, then his personal threat is every bit as real as the characters thought. That always stuck with me, that sneak peak of what Aang would have to face.
Zuko showing how he'd mastered the redirection technique was just the icing on the cake.
Just a quickie, what if instead you had a skill tree growing out from your choice? So like, you pick Fire Bender, and then you can go up the branches of ‘control fire’, ‘kung fu’, ‘lightning bending‘ etc. as you please. The more narrow your focus the higher up a certain path you get, but being broad gives you more options.
This allows for vast array of abilities without dedicating a whole subclass to it. Like water bending and ice bending are next to each other, and you can hop between them as you level up, whereas healing might only need to be a small isolated branch of three techniques.
Season one would have been undeniably stronger without it, and the only reason anyone ever watches it again is because they feel an obligation to view the entire series when doing a re-watch, or perhaps because of affection for Rene Auberjonois, even though it's far from his most compelling work.