Here's another old "friend" of mine who is not a friend anymore. Well, I haven't removed him yet, a black friend of ours engaged him first and I'm waiting for him to wake up in Spain so he gets a word in, not that it'd change anything but I'm sure he'd like to say good riddance to our old "friend".
Prior to this, I had linked the graphic murder of Kyle's first victim, since that's NOT being shown anywhere unless you find it since it disproves the whole "self-defense" angle outright. The second he deflected to "see, he had something thrown at him" is when I gave up and knew nothing I said would matter to him.
These people REFUSE to listen to anyone other than Trump or Fox News, and we're supposed to what, find a better way forward with these fanatics? They only hear what they want to hear, and it's nothing good for most of us.
Here's another old "friend" of mine who is not a friend anymore. Well, I haven't removed him yet, a black friend of ours engaged him first and I'm waiting for him to wake up in Spain so he gets a word in, not that it'd change anything but I'm sure he'd like to say good riddance to our old "friend".
Prior to this, I had linked the graphic murder of Kyle's first victim, since that's NOT being shown anywhere unless you find it since it disproves the whole "self-defense" angle outright.
These people REFUSE to listen to anyone other than Trump or Fox News, and we're supposed to what, find a better way forward with these fanatics? They only hear what they want to hear, and it's nothing good for most of us.
you've hit the nail on the head pretty much. no one in the country will ever again listen to anyone that doesn't tell them what they want to hear, which is split basically down the middle between people assiduously laying the groundwork for outright fascism (crypto-fascism is the norm, but it's a big step to just fuckin' come out and say it), while the other half is fixated on drawing moral equivalence between the fascists and the only people willing to be effective against them
the institutions we have in place are not equipped to handle this, even the ones that aren't enthusiastically going along with it
man i don't understand what you're saying. can you elaborate?
Liberals were the ones who waged the Cold War. JFK is the archetype liberal, and he nearly burned down the world to oppose the Soviets in Cuba.
Leftists are split on the Soviet Union, and even the hardcore oldschool Cold War apologist types split between those who stanned the Soviets and those who hated the Soviets and stanned Mao, Trotsky, Tito, Che, or some other revolutionary.
That’s all on Wikipedia.
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
the soviet union was even more prolific than nazi germany in it's genocide and violent racism, they were just more influenced by old school tribal hatred and pre-peter eurasian suppression than germany with their good old american eugenics
man i don't understand what you're saying. can you elaborate?
I was trying to discuss how the Soviet Union installed dictators across Africa and this person said it never happened it was all the CIA.
okay i don't know whose end it was on then, but the way you said that it sounded to me like liberals were saying the USSR never did imperialism, which is difficult for me to believe
I don't wanna presume to talk to anybody about their family dynamics, but I do wanna talk about one thing that worked surprisingly well with me and my mom (who, as I have certainly mentioned around here, had a Nixon-themed birthday party in the early 70s)
I never had much luck telling her that what she thought was wrong. But I did have success in telling her how what I think is right was a direct result of her teachings*.
There was a time when she thought I was an incorrigible, corrupted-by-Hollywood, out-of-touch lefty. But I stopped talking about how "everyone deserves access to education," and started saying, "When we helped my sister's friend buy textbooks she couldn't afford, I remember how grateful she was. I remember wishing more people could have that." I stopped talking about how we need fewer cops and more social workers, and I started talking about, "Remember that time your co-worker at Dillard's needed out of a bad situation, and you got me and some of my football player friends to move all her shit out of her scumbag ex's house when he wasn't around? It made me think about how much quicker that solution is, how much safer it was for her and for all of us, than any of the alternatives." I stopped talking about how taxes on rich people should be higher, and started talking about how it always struck me that, as soon as she hit an even temporary windfall, she made sure to help out people that needed it.
Framing her good deeds as Good Deeds, and letting her connect the dots on my political alignment, did fuckin' wonders. She didn't have to confront being wrong, she got to be right all along (and tell herself she was merely voting with a party that was once good and then "betrayed her" or whatever)
*My journey to the left came way more from literature and the internet, but she did inadvertently prime the pump
It drives me nuts that there is not a concerted, organized effort to have more people persuade their friends and family that way.
That there's not the infrastructure to pull family members out of Fox/Murdoch media, out of right-wing radicalization. Cause we need a lot more than scattered success stories, we need this shit on a massive scale. Where's the webpage where I can read up on how to approach this shit, the practice partners I can connect to, or the hotline I can call to help troubleshoot what needs to be done.
Like it's not a fuckin new problem, what the fuck are we all doing?
Label on
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
edited September 2020
I don't know
but I'm also not paid enough to put up with (some) family's bullshit when I could barely stand them before they swan dived off the goddamn deep end.
Orca on
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
i'm more worried about the kids radicalized by youtube than i am fox news lovers
they're both bad, for mostly similar reasons, but the youtube at-right crowd...jesus
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
As an aside, remember when Twitter forced users to follow him back in 2017? People have to actively remove him and some people I follow still have him in their list.
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Metzger MeisterIt Gets Worsebefore it gets any better.Registered Userregular
I'd say there's been a tremendous amount of leftward radicalization as well, it's just not as reported on or widely acknowledged because it's not a fucking existential threat to society.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Typically being victims of the system and realizing it is what radicalizes people to the left.
Some centrists almost made the change permanently. But when Biden got nominated fucking lol that went out the window.
I'd say there's been a tremendous amount of leftward radicalization as well, it's just not as reported on or widely acknowledged because it's not a fucking existential threat to society.
Also cause leftists generally know how to keep a lid on their extremism, or even just their leftist ideals in general thanks to the red scare bullshit. It's gotten a bit loud recently but that's a newer development. The right wing extremists have been in full shit throwing fury mode since the 90s.
also just feels like, asking others to be a decent human being with compassion for people outside of your immediate circle of relatives and friends is considered being radical left now
observing that the current health insurance system is fucking broken and impossibly cruel makes you a radical I guess
also just feels like, asking others to be a decent human being with compassion for people outside of your immediate circle of relatives and friends is considered being radical left now
observing that the current health insurance system is fucking broken and impossibly cruel makes you a radical I guess
I feel like in this political climate, you might be able to use the Trolley Problem to determine who is a fuckhead. Just say "Oh it's Mitch McConnell on one side and 5 strangers on the other".
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
Being outraged at unarmed protesters being brutalized on a daily basis, nevermind people of color getting extrajudicially murdered on a daily basis apparently makes you a radical leftist
It drives me nuts that there is not a concerted, organized effort to have more people persuade their friends and family that way.
That there's not the infrastructure to pull family members out of Fox/Murdoch media, out of right-wing radicalization. Cause we need a lot more than scattered success stories, we need this shit on a massive scale. Where's the webpage where I can read up on how to approach this shit, the practice partners I can connect to, or the hotline I can call to help troubleshoot what needs to be done.
Like it's not a fuckin new problem, what the fuck are we all doing?
I will admit I was getting frustrated in the first few iterations of this thread. I really felt like nobody would engage with me on how to turn people back from fascist/racist thought.
I think it’s a really great question you’re posing. There is some pretty good info out there, but yeah not as big as Fox.
One of the big challenges is breaking down complex ideas into something that people can understand. I find that a lot of the really smart people who have spent ages in the theory can forget that a lot of us don’t have the same jargon, contextual info, and history they do.
I mentioned it last thread, but it’d be great if we could set up some infrastructure between ourselves to shoot the shit. Is discord a good idea for something like that?
I totally agree with Pooro. I believe that fundamentally, we are dealing with an empathy problem. People just can’t conceive how bad it is out there for people, and people often Sure, there is a cabal fallVictim to the Just World Fallacy. Sure, there are grifters who are cynically creating divides for money, but they are not the majority of people.
On, like, a personal level I have realised the last few weeks I have fallen into a really reactionary mindset. I’m not thinking about what I can do to make things better as much as I am just reacting to shit that the fascists are doing. I’m going to try and stop that
also just feels like, asking others to be a decent human being with compassion for people outside of your immediate circle of relatives and friends is considered being radical left now
observing that the current health insurance system is fucking broken and impossibly cruel makes you a radical I guess
I've said it before in other contexts, but it's amazing to ask centrists to distinctly describe what they believe is right and what they will vote for. The answers are not the same and that is amazingly fucked up to me.
i'm more worried about the kids radicalized by youtube than i am fox news lovers
they're both bad, for mostly similar reasons, but the youtube at-right crowd...jesus
I worked with a guy in his early 20s and he was mostly pretty nice, but he'd spend all day watching videos of Ben Shapiro on YouTube without headphones. Having to listen to that really made my days suck sometimes
Posts
Prior to this, I had linked the graphic murder of Kyle's first victim, since that's NOT being shown anywhere unless you find it since it disproves the whole "self-defense" angle outright. The second he deflected to "see, he had something thrown at him" is when I gave up and knew nothing I said would matter to him.
These people REFUSE to listen to anyone other than Trump or Fox News, and we're supposed to what, find a better way forward with these fanatics? They only hear what they want to hear, and it's nothing good for most of us.
you've hit the nail on the head pretty much. no one in the country will ever again listen to anyone that doesn't tell them what they want to hear, which is split basically down the middle between people assiduously laying the groundwork for outright fascism (crypto-fascism is the norm, but it's a big step to just fuckin' come out and say it), while the other half is fixated on drawing moral equivalence between the fascists and the only people willing to be effective against them
the institutions we have in place are not equipped to handle this, even the ones that aren't enthusiastically going along with it
hitting hot metal with hammers
We were not waxing, we were trying to have a history discussion and they couldn't be bothered to look up wikipedia. 🤷♂️
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
hitting hot metal with hammers
Liberals were the ones who waged the Cold War. JFK is the archetype liberal, and he nearly burned down the world to oppose the Soviets in Cuba.
Leftists are split on the Soviet Union, and even the hardcore oldschool Cold War apologist types split between those who stanned the Soviets and those who hated the Soviets and stanned Mao, Trotsky, Tito, Che, or some other revolutionary.
That’s all on Wikipedia.
hitting hot metal with hammers
I was trying to discuss how the Soviet Union installed dictators across Africa and this person said it never happened it was all the CIA.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
this is some timecube shit
okay i don't know whose end it was on then, but the way you said that it sounded to me like liberals were saying the USSR never did imperialism, which is difficult for me to believe
hitting hot metal with hammers
The fact that it's a needed improvement over the alternative is depressing.
please, here is how you get The Votes
I hate living in a world where this both matters very much and also doesn't matter at all. This is the shittiest cyberpunk dystopian timeline.
you have committed violence against us
nice
I never had much luck telling her that what she thought was wrong. But I did have success in telling her how what I think is right was a direct result of her teachings*.
There was a time when she thought I was an incorrigible, corrupted-by-Hollywood, out-of-touch lefty. But I stopped talking about how "everyone deserves access to education," and started saying, "When we helped my sister's friend buy textbooks she couldn't afford, I remember how grateful she was. I remember wishing more people could have that." I stopped talking about how we need fewer cops and more social workers, and I started talking about, "Remember that time your co-worker at Dillard's needed out of a bad situation, and you got me and some of my football player friends to move all her shit out of her scumbag ex's house when he wasn't around? It made me think about how much quicker that solution is, how much safer it was for her and for all of us, than any of the alternatives." I stopped talking about how taxes on rich people should be higher, and started talking about how it always struck me that, as soon as she hit an even temporary windfall, she made sure to help out people that needed it.
Framing her good deeds as Good Deeds, and letting her connect the dots on my political alignment, did fuckin' wonders. She didn't have to confront being wrong, she got to be right all along (and tell herself she was merely voting with a party that was once good and then "betrayed her" or whatever)
*My journey to the left came way more from literature and the internet, but she did inadvertently prime the pump
That there's not the infrastructure to pull family members out of Fox/Murdoch media, out of right-wing radicalization. Cause we need a lot more than scattered success stories, we need this shit on a massive scale. Where's the webpage where I can read up on how to approach this shit, the practice partners I can connect to, or the hotline I can call to help troubleshoot what needs to be done.
Like it's not a fuckin new problem, what the fuck are we all doing?
but I'm also not paid enough to put up with (some) family's bullshit when I could barely stand them before they swan dived off the goddamn deep end.
they're both bad, for mostly similar reasons, but the youtube at-right crowd...jesus
Some centrists almost made the change permanently. But when Biden got nominated fucking lol that went out the window.
Also cause leftists generally know how to keep a lid on their extremism, or even just their leftist ideals in general thanks to the red scare bullshit. It's gotten a bit loud recently but that's a newer development. The right wing extremists have been in full shit throwing fury mode since the 90s.
observing that the current health insurance system is fucking broken and impossibly cruel makes you a radical I guess
I feel like in this political climate, you might be able to use the Trolley Problem to determine who is a fuckhead. Just say "Oh it's Mitch McConnell on one side and 5 strangers on the other".
I will admit I was getting frustrated in the first few iterations of this thread. I really felt like nobody would engage with me on how to turn people back from fascist/racist thought.
I think it’s a really great question you’re posing. There is some pretty good info out there, but yeah not as big as Fox.
One of the big challenges is breaking down complex ideas into something that people can understand. I find that a lot of the really smart people who have spent ages in the theory can forget that a lot of us don’t have the same jargon, contextual info, and history they do.
I mentioned it last thread, but it’d be great if we could set up some infrastructure between ourselves to shoot the shit. Is discord a good idea for something like that?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better
bit.ly/2XQM1ke
On, like, a personal level I have realised the last few weeks I have fallen into a really reactionary mindset. I’m not thinking about what I can do to make things better as much as I am just reacting to shit that the fascists are doing. I’m going to try and stop that
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better
bit.ly/2XQM1ke
what a crazy world
PSN: Robo_Wizard1
The only thing whiter than this is Scott "Handshake" Morrison
Gonna look up puppy pictures now as a pallet cleanser.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
I worked with a guy in his early 20s and he was mostly pretty nice, but he'd spend all day watching videos of Ben Shapiro on YouTube without headphones. Having to listen to that really made my days suck sometimes