I never really used trickster to dodge. I guess I got used to jumping and the dodge roll.
I played some DMC4 recently and I think 5 might have messed with my muscle memory for 4. I kept trying to do air taunts and split by holding back instead of forward.
I'll try to use jumping more often. Just feels wrong and I don't know why
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
I think its fine for the game to have its own identity. Any button you lose for a dodge button is another command you are taking away. What do you want to sacrifice? The devil trigger button? One of the stance switch buttons? Taunt? Gun switch? Weapon switch?
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
I think its fine for the game to have its own identity. Any button you lose for a dodge button is another command you are taking away. What do you want to sacrifice? The devil trigger button? One of the stance switch buttons? Taunt? Gun switch? Weapon switch?
What does L2 do with Nero? Rev the sword or whatever? I'm sure there's a way to do it if they wanted it. No dodging just feels awkward but it's years of Bayonetta other Platinum games doing that to me.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
I think its fine for the game to have its own identity. Any button you lose for a dodge button is another command you are taking away. What do you want to sacrifice? The devil trigger button? One of the stance switch buttons? Taunt? Gun switch? Weapon switch?
What does L2 do with Nero? Rev the sword or whatever? I'm sure there's a way to do it if they wanted it. No dodging just feels awkward but it's years of Bayonetta other Platinum games doing that to me.
They could, it just requires a sacrifice, and a redesign of all characters. Hence my question. What mechanic do you want to lose? There is not enough buttons on the controller to add a new button without sacrificing another one. For all the characters, the buttons are all used up for commands you want available and in easy reach at all times.
The existing avoidance mechanics work. They even work well! They're not what you may be used to anymore. But they do still work in the design of this game. The enemies are designed for them. Their own movesets are designed for them. It's not a coincidence that Dante and Nero can shoot mid air, or come down with a high powered attack on an enemies head directly after jumping above an attack (helm splitter and split).
If you want your dodge button, Nero and Dante both have one as an option for those who need it. Both are characters that regularly get into the thick of things in a way that can make it difficult to dodge roll on the ground when you aren't used to it. V generally doesn't, nor does it really matter if he's in the air or not since he so rarely personally attacks, so he doesn't really need one at all.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I never really used trickster to dodge. I guess I got used to jumping and the dodge roll.
I played some DMC4 recently and I think 5 might have messed with my muscle memory for 4. I kept trying to do air taunts and split by holding back instead of forward.
Trickster was my jam in DMC3, but I eventually wound up thinking it never let you reach the heights of Swordmaster or Royal Guard, especially in the context of the higher difficulty levels.
Of course, that became a moot point when 4 rolled around and you could style switch on the fly.
Yeah I just don't think "not having a dodge" is an identity though. The game stands on its own legs with or without it. After 10 or so years of other Platinum games having it I'm just having a hard time switching. It'll happen. It just feels wrong.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited September 2020
i feel like dmc5 dante has a lot of weird defensive mechanics its more fun to use
like theres tonnes of non-dodge dodges eg the shotgun knee slide? that counts as a dodge! if u dodge stuff with it the game gives u slomo
and then of course theres all the parry/clash stuff that is v tasty
i feel like dante has a very complete set of defensive mechanics its just not really a one dodge button kinda thing - and a lot of weapons are more interesting precisely because they have their own built in defensive systems for u to mess around with eg bantam
I think its fine for the game to have its own identity. Any button you lose for a dodge button is another command you are taking away. What do you want to sacrifice? The devil trigger button? One of the stance switch buttons? Taunt? Gun switch? Weapon switch?
I'd put more stuff on the dpad.
For Nero, I'd move breakaway to the dpad.
For Dante, I'd change style switching to cycle through with up/down and make left/right gun/weapon switch.
In fact, the first time I played DMC3 it was the bad PC version and I couldn't use the triggers on my 360 controller. So I used dpad left/right for gun/weapon switch.
EDIT: Actually, no. The first time I played DMC3 it was on keyboard because the game swapped the left and right sticks around and I only found out how to fix it later.
Jesus Christ. I just don't think I can do this. My pea sized brain just can't get over it. I thought I was doing well and then there was a bridge with like 4 berserkers and I ended up biting it. I just don't think I'll be good enough to beat this game.
Jesus Christ. I just don't think I can do this. My pea sized brain just can't get over it. I thought I was doing well and then there was a bridge with like 4 berserkers and I ended up biting it. I just don't think I'll be good enough to beat this game.
I find it harder to be good at any one character because they're all different, and I say that as someone who could smash DMC3. I prefer the older combat system tbh.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
i would say give it a chance
dmc5 is almost like a superset of dmc3. rather than the useless style lite weightless nonsense of dmc4, dmc5 takes all the interesting parts of dmc3 and expands on the bits that were a bit useless. you dont even need to styleswitch - just spend a bit of time with dante and after a bit i think u will find it kinda works. theres some stuff thats missing like rg cancelling cheese but dmc5 worked for me in a way that dmc4 never did
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
My problem with the clash system is that they never really go indepth in explaining it and I know some people like needless obfuscation but I'm not one of them.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
I think its fine for the game to have its own identity. Any button you lose for a dodge button is another command you are taking away. What do you want to sacrifice? The devil trigger button? One of the stance switch buttons? Taunt? Gun switch? Weapon switch?
I'd put more stuff on the dpad.
For Nero, I'd move breakaway to the dpad.
For Dante, I'd change style switching to cycle through with up/down and make left/right gun/weapon switch.
In fact, the first time I played DMC3 it was the bad PC version and I couldn't use the triggers on my 360 controller. So I used dpad left/right for gun/weapon switch.
EDIT: Actually, no. The first time I played DMC3 it was on keyboard because the game swapped the left and right sticks around and I only found out how to fix it later.
That would hold back a lot of tech actually. It'd be fine for casual play (which, for this series, I don't actually consider important, as elitist as that sounds), but putting style switching as a cycle in particular would completely destroy a lot of high level stuff pretty much instantly. They rely on instant switch, no cycle. And they'd just move the gun/weapon switch back, because that's too important too, being able to switch easily is a huge part of many combos. They'd just get stuck with what to put there instead, resulting in a feeling of putting something annoying on the dpad and a worse control scheme.
It's not a solution, unfortunately. Not without destroying how dmc plays.
DMC is a more offensive game than platinum game usual systems. It has so many mechanics and interlocking systems. A non trivial amount of dante's weapon and style movesets can dodge, parry, or are built to interrupt enemies via the clash system in dmc5.
It's not as simple. But that is good. I don't want every game to be homogenized for convenience. I want games to have their own systems, their own solutions to problems.
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I just remember not feeling very powerful. I returned it immediately after completing it and it's the only DMC I did that with (I didn't return DMC2 but I didn't ever play it again). DMC3 was the peak for me. I got owned so many times at the very first area because you have that giant scythe wielding thing, but it's a trial by fire and I emerged a better player once you work out how to fight it. From there you get these great weapons and you feel like a demi god switching between them and actioning combos. Dante in DMC5 is like Poochy, in that any time he's not on screen I am asking "Where is Poochy?". I want to play as Dante, and I can't remember but I think the upgrade currency was shared between characters?
I didn't really bother investing in the other two because they're not who I came to play as. But even as Dante I never felt powerful. That last battle with Vergil just dragged on, not in a difficult way but just like he was a damage sponge.
I'm sure someone will have some Royal Guard style strat where they can build up lots of counter energy and one hit him or whatever, but by that point I'm pretty much done with still using Vergil as a main villain. He was used so subtley in DMC, DMC3 obviously goes into the backstory, DMC4 centers around his son, and then DMC5 he's the big bad again. You have all of Hell to work with.
I just remember not feeling very powerful. I returned it immediately after completing it and it's the only DMC I did that with (I didn't return DMC2 but I didn't ever play it again). DMC3 was the peak for me. I got owned so many times at the very first area because you have that giant scythe wielding thing, but it's a trial by fire and I emerged a better player once you work out how to fight it. From there you get these great weapons and you feel like a demi god switching between them and actioning combos. Dante in DMC5 is like Poochy, in that any time he's not on screen I am asking "Where is Poochy?". I want to play as Dante, and I can't remember but I think the upgrade currency was shared between characters?
I didn't really bother investing in the other two because they're not who I came to play as. But even as Dante I never felt powerful. That last battle with Vergil just dragged on, not in a difficult way but just like he was a damage sponge.
I'm sure someone will have some Royal Guard style strat where they can build up lots of counter energy and one hit him or whatever, but by that point I'm pretty much done with still using Vergil as a main villain. He was used so subtley in DMC, DMC3 obviously goes into the backstory, DMC4 centers around his son, and then DMC5 he's the big bad again. You have all of Hell to work with.
Anyway. DMC5 was just not for me.
Is it bad form to say that I think the final boss dies too quickly on the lower difficulties?
EDIT: Although mission 20 more so than mission 19.
My problem with the clash system is that they never really go indepth in explaining it and I know some people like needless obfuscation but I'm not one of them.
i mean u just hit the active frame of a monster attack with urs
and see what happens from there
its actually the thing they took the most from dmc: devil may cry weirdly - that game had an (overemphasis) on the mechanic, and dmc5 refines it
there are even some special clashes u can do vs da final boss etc
with nero the nice thing about eg gerbera is that if ur not sure whats up u can just press it and probs be ok
There's no way to change your ammo during the level right? Like if I currently have Helter Skelter equipped but want to use my Gerbera that's like 3 deep. I assume I have to burn through the other ammo.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
There's no way to change your ammo during the level right? Like if I currently have Helter Skelter equipped but want to use my Gerbera that's like 3 deep. I assume I have to burn through the other ammo.
No you cant switch freely. You have to use or break the part with breakaway.
I wish theyd let you toggle through them.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
yeah the arm thing was insanely dumb and i installed an arm swap mod as soon as it was available because it made precisely zero sense
Just checking, thanks all. I pressed all of the buttons to be sure but sometimes you just never know.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
DMC5 making Royal Guard easier to use meant it was the most powerful I'd ever felt as Dante. Going up against bosses and confidently blocking a hit is a hell of a feeling.
I think the point was to get it to use the arms and have a reason to use the charged attacks instead of swapping them on the fly.
+1
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited September 2020
Didn't matter to me I only ever equipped one arm.
Buster Arm.
I'm one of nature's meleers.
Before I found that that I equipped whatever, I grew quite attached to the one with the real impact style uppercut charged attack.
And by attached I meant broke it by doing that charge attack at every opportunity.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I just remember not feeling very powerful. I returned it immediately after completing it and it's the only DMC I did that with (I didn't return DMC2 but I didn't ever play it again). DMC3 was the peak for me. I got owned so many times at the very first area because you have that giant scythe wielding thing, but it's a trial by fire and I emerged a better player once you work out how to fight it. From there you get these great weapons and you feel like a demi god switching between them and actioning combos. Dante in DMC5 is like Poochy, in that any time he's not on screen I am asking "Where is Poochy?". I want to play as Dante, and I can't remember but I think the upgrade currency was shared between characters?
I didn't really bother investing in the other two because they're not who I came to play as. But even as Dante I never felt powerful. That last battle with Vergil just dragged on, not in a difficult way but just like he was a damage sponge.
I'm sure someone will have some Royal Guard style strat where they can build up lots of counter energy and one hit him or whatever, but by that point I'm pretty much done with still using Vergil as a main villain. He was used so subtley in DMC, DMC3 obviously goes into the backstory, DMC4 centers around his son, and then DMC5 he's the big bad again. You have all of Hell to work with.
Anyway. DMC5 was just not for me.
Is it bad form to say that I think the final boss dies too quickly on the lower difficulties?
EDIT: Although mission 20 more so than mission 19.
Am I thinking of the right last boss?
The giant monster thing in a field? I think it was the opening boss and then you kill it and it's corrupted Vergil? Come to think of it that might not have been the last boss.
N/M, I'm thinking of Urizen 2.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
There's a decent chunk of game after that, yeh.
As far as Nero's arms go, that was definitely a thematic choice over gameplay, IMO. Fits his gambling theme, rolling with what ya got, cards you're dealt etc etc. Maybe they could've added an Arm Switch option post game, but that first time through I liked it the way it was.
Oh brilliant
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited September 2020
They are decent about giving you arm pickups in missions and it does encourage using more varieties but the lost combo opportunities are real.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
yeah the sad thing about it is that there are all these sick combos u can do using the breaks but... they cant be part of ur gameplay unless ur modding
it is thematic and intentional, and also limiting and bad for his gameplay variety. i know almost nobody who regularly used the arm destruction moves for the same reason almost nobody uses consumables in jrpgs
You do get your arm pickups throughout a level, and you can order a set for a specific strategy with Nico whenever you start a mission or the van shows up.
The most limiting bit is Bloody Palace, where you can stock up on basically anything every 10 floors, but you don't get any between those refresh floors.
But, point taken. I'll try to use the break-age attacks more often, like how Mother 3 got me to use items more. I would like to uppercut the absolute shit out of an Empusa Queen.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Yeah in concept they want you to be breaking your arms all the time.
But in reality most people aren't gonna play that way.
Devil May Cry 5 Special Edition announced in the PS5 showcase. Playable Vergil and Legendary Dark Knight mode (there's a shot with crazy number of enemies)
Yeah, I'm not buying a PS5 solely for Vergil mode. It would be something on a list of games to trade in from my PS4 whenver I did get a PS5 in the coming years, though.
I will say that I think it's neat that they're showing off V as a transformation Vergil can do as a playable character, though. It opens the option for V's playstyle to show up again in future games. Not sure how I feel about Griffin and Shwdow showing up there as well, since they were supposed to be gone? But this whole Vergil mode is pretty much a non-canon-dream-mode kinda thing anyway, so it's fine.
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I played some DMC4 recently and I think 5 might have messed with my muscle memory for 4. I kept trying to do air taunts and split by holding back instead of forward.
What does L2 do with Nero? Rev the sword or whatever? I'm sure there's a way to do it if they wanted it. No dodging just feels awkward but it's years of Bayonetta other Platinum games doing that to me.
They could, it just requires a sacrifice, and a redesign of all characters. Hence my question. What mechanic do you want to lose? There is not enough buttons on the controller to add a new button without sacrificing another one. For all the characters, the buttons are all used up for commands you want available and in easy reach at all times.
The existing avoidance mechanics work. They even work well! They're not what you may be used to anymore. But they do still work in the design of this game. The enemies are designed for them. Their own movesets are designed for them. It's not a coincidence that Dante and Nero can shoot mid air, or come down with a high powered attack on an enemies head directly after jumping above an attack (helm splitter and split).
If you want your dodge button, Nero and Dante both have one as an option for those who need it. Both are characters that regularly get into the thick of things in a way that can make it difficult to dodge roll on the ground when you aren't used to it. V generally doesn't, nor does it really matter if he's in the air or not since he so rarely personally attacks, so he doesn't really need one at all.
Trickster was my jam in DMC3, but I eventually wound up thinking it never let you reach the heights of Swordmaster or Royal Guard, especially in the context of the higher difficulty levels.
Of course, that became a moot point when 4 rolled around and you could style switch on the fly.
like theres tonnes of non-dodge dodges eg the shotgun knee slide? that counts as a dodge! if u dodge stuff with it the game gives u slomo
and then of course theres all the parry/clash stuff that is v tasty
i feel like dante has a very complete set of defensive mechanics its just not really a one dodge button kinda thing - and a lot of weapons are more interesting precisely because they have their own built in defensive systems for u to mess around with eg bantam
I'd put more stuff on the dpad.
For Nero, I'd move breakaway to the dpad.
For Dante, I'd change style switching to cycle through with up/down and make left/right gun/weapon switch.
In fact, the first time I played DMC3 it was the bad PC version and I couldn't use the triggers on my 360 controller. So I used dpad left/right for gun/weapon switch.
EDIT: Actually, no. The first time I played DMC3 it was on keyboard because the game swapped the left and right sticks around and I only found out how to fix it later.
default bind jump cancelling was super annoying in dmc3 but on a keyboard it was trivial
EDIT: also re parries there are tonnes of moves that end up having fun things u can do vs enemies once u know the tells
I find it harder to be good at any one character because they're all different, and I say that as someone who could smash DMC3. I prefer the older combat system tbh.
dmc5 is almost like a superset of dmc3. rather than the useless style lite weightless nonsense of dmc4, dmc5 takes all the interesting parts of dmc3 and expands on the bits that were a bit useless. you dont even need to styleswitch - just spend a bit of time with dante and after a bit i think u will find it kinda works. theres some stuff thats missing like rg cancelling cheese but dmc5 worked for me in a way that dmc4 never did
That would hold back a lot of tech actually. It'd be fine for casual play (which, for this series, I don't actually consider important, as elitist as that sounds), but putting style switching as a cycle in particular would completely destroy a lot of high level stuff pretty much instantly. They rely on instant switch, no cycle. And they'd just move the gun/weapon switch back, because that's too important too, being able to switch easily is a huge part of many combos. They'd just get stuck with what to put there instead, resulting in a feeling of putting something annoying on the dpad and a worse control scheme.
It's not a solution, unfortunately. Not without destroying how dmc plays.
DMC is a more offensive game than platinum game usual systems. It has so many mechanics and interlocking systems. A non trivial amount of dante's weapon and style movesets can dodge, parry, or are built to interrupt enemies via the clash system in dmc5.
It's not as simple. But that is good. I don't want every game to be homogenized for convenience. I want games to have their own systems, their own solutions to problems.
I'm sure someone will have some Royal Guard style strat where they can build up lots of counter energy and one hit him or whatever, but by that point I'm pretty much done with still using Vergil as a main villain. He was used so subtley in DMC, DMC3 obviously goes into the backstory, DMC4 centers around his son, and then DMC5 he's the big bad again. You have all of Hell to work with.
Anyway. DMC5 was just not for me.
Is it bad form to say that I think the final boss dies too quickly on the lower difficulties?
EDIT: Although mission 20 more so than mission 19.
Dante was still Dante, V was hilarious in how easy it was to get S ranks, Nero was the only one who felt incomplete
So yeah.
i mean u just hit the active frame of a monster attack with urs
and see what happens from there
its actually the thing they took the most from dmc: devil may cry weirdly - that game had an (overemphasis) on the mechanic, and dmc5 refines it
there are even some special clashes u can do vs da final boss etc
with nero the nice thing about eg gerbera is that if ur not sure whats up u can just press it and probs be ok
No you cant switch freely. You have to use or break the part with breakaway.
I wish theyd let you toggle through them.
...going back to DMC4SE is difficult. :P
Buster Arm.
I'm one of nature's meleers.
Before I found that that I equipped whatever, I grew quite attached to the one with the real impact style uppercut charged attack.
And by attached I meant broke it by doing that charge attack at every opportunity.
Am I thinking of the right last boss?
N/M, I'm thinking of Urizen 2.
As far as Nero's arms go, that was definitely a thematic choice over gameplay, IMO. Fits his gambling theme, rolling with what ya got, cards you're dealt etc etc. Maybe they could've added an Arm Switch option post game, but that first time through I liked it the way it was.
it is thematic and intentional, and also limiting and bad for his gameplay variety. i know almost nobody who regularly used the arm destruction moves for the same reason almost nobody uses consumables in jrpgs
The most limiting bit is Bloody Palace, where you can stock up on basically anything every 10 floors, but you don't get any between those refresh floors.
But, point taken. I'll try to use the break-age attacks more often, like how Mother 3 got me to use items more. I would like to uppercut the absolute shit out of an Empusa Queen.
But in reality most people aren't gonna play that way.
Y'all better make this DLC / a patch for the PC version tho!
I will say that I think it's neat that they're showing off V as a transformation Vergil can do as a playable character, though. It opens the option for V's playstyle to show up again in future games. Not sure how I feel about Griffin and Shwdow showing up there as well, since they were supposed to be gone? But this whole Vergil mode is pretty much a non-canon-dream-mode kinda thing anyway, so it's fine.
EDIT:
I wonder if Vergil's V Trigger will be a fully controllable V as he was as a playable character, or if it will be an animation for a big move.