[Star Wars] Yay Jar Jar!

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    That reminds me of one of my favorite entries in wookiepedia

    https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Duck/Legends

    Also Han saying "I'll see you in Hell."

    I mean, that's a bit different. Most cultures have a concept of an afterlife and most have a version of the afterlife that is...for bad people

    Yeah, but the Wookieepedia entry is hilarious.

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  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Of course star wars has a hell, Satan exists and his favourite bar is a in that dump on tatooine

  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    This was the most obvious pitfall and they still fell right into it. How do you drop a billion dollars on three movies and have no plan for them?

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  • SixSix Ask me about my butthole Registered User regular
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    This was the most obvious pitfall and they still fell right into it. How do you drop a billion dollars on three movies and have no plan for them?

    Because it didn’t matter if they didn’t have a plan. People saw them anyway and even convinced themselves there was a plan.

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  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    I said from the jump it would make more sense if Rey was a Kenobi, but they went with palpatines dead clone son's kid

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Shit like that is why I will never give JJ Abrams a pass on TRoS. He ran headfirst into so many unforced errors, and that "leak" they released to try to mitigate his (and Terrio's) responsibility for the whole mess only served to confirm that they were the ones making terrible writing decisions across the board.

    I don't know how anyone can look at the broad outline of Treverrow's script and go "well this is absolute shit" and then fire him only to be satisfied with whatever dreck Terrio & Abrams were coming up with on a daily basis. The former wasn't mind-blowing by any means, but it was serviceable and continued on the ideas and themes of its predecessors, and at least made narrative sense within the broader universe.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited September 9
    Shit like that is why I will never give JJ Abrams a pass on TRoS. He ran headfirst into so many unforced errors, and that "leak" they released to try to mitigate his (and Terrio's) responsibility for the whole mess only served to confirm that they were the ones making terrible writing decisions across the board.

    I don't know how anyone can look at the broad outline of Treverrow's script and go "well this is absolute shit" and then fire him only to be satisfied with whatever dreck Terrio & Abrams were coming up with on a daily basis. The former wasn't mind-blowing by any means, but it was serviceable and continued on the ideas and themes of its predecessors, and at least made narrative sense within the broader universe.

    Technically, they saw Book of Henry, went "well this is absolute shit" and then fired him.

    Edit: Treverrow's script was not great, but it was competent. It could be carried by good acting.

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  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    If only Rian Johnson hadn't disrespected JJ Abrams' bold vision of "maybe she's a Kenobi perhaps, possibly".

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited September 9
    It remains infuriating that TLJ gave them a complete out on the whole box they'd built for themselves. There's no answer to Rey's parentage that isn't groan-worthy. Skywalker, Kenobi, Palpatine, all are stupid and yet they are basically the only options for a mysterious parentage that actually mean something. And then Johnson is like "Boom, solved, let's move on". But then they had to go back anyway....

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Shit like that is why I will never give JJ Abrams a pass on TRoS. He ran headfirst into so many unforced errors, and that "leak" they released to try to mitigate his (and Terrio's) responsibility for the whole mess only served to confirm that they were the ones making terrible writing decisions across the board.

    I don't know how anyone can look at the broad outline of Treverrow's script and go "well this is absolute shit" and then fire him only to be satisfied with whatever dreck Terrio & Abrams were coming up with on a daily basis. The former wasn't mind-blowing by any means, but it was serviceable and continued on the ideas and themes of its predecessors, and at least made narrative sense within the broader universe.

    Yeah, it wasn't a good script in terms of writing but for all the shit I'll give him, Treverrow clearly knew to move forward and build on what had been done before in a natural and sensible way. He could actually identify what had been set up by the two previous films and see at least in broad strokes how to tie all those elements together.

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  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    I thought Colin's script was milquetoast and TRoS was the worst thing with the brand on it since the holiday special. In the end, I'd rather have the raging dumpster fire. At least it shook some people awake over at Mouse HQ.

  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    Six is exactly right. There is an automatic revenue stream for ANYTHING with the Star Wars label on it. I also can't blame Rian anymore, because who let him take a wrecking ball to the franchise. They allowed him to do it.

    The entire ST was a train wreck from the get go when TFA copied just about everything from Ep. 4 We just don't have the right to say we didn't see this coming when the warning signs were so early on.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    VoodooV wrote: »
    Six is exactly right. There is an automatic revenue stream for ANYTHING with the Star Wars label on it. I also can't blame Rian anymore, because who let him take a wrecking ball to the franchise. They allowed him to do it.

    The entire ST was a train wreck from the get go when TFA copied just about everything from Ep. 4 We just don't have the right to say we didn't see this coming when the warning signs were so early on.

    We wanted to believe, or at least I did, that "this will begin to make things right."

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  • jdarksunjdarksun Struggler Registered User regular
    I thought Colin's script was milquetoast and TRoS was the worst thing with the brand on it since the holiday special. In the end, I'd rather have the raging dumpster fire. At least it shook some people awake over at Mouse HQ.
    ...did it?

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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    My read of Abrams is that anyone letting him make a movie should look at whatever mystery question he sets up, then privately ask him what the answer is. If he can't answer, don't let him make it in the first place. You don't have to answer it in the movie, but sooner or later you will have to provide an answer, and it's very obvious when you just pull it out of your ass at the last minute.

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  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »
    I thought Colin's script was milquetoast and TRoS was the worst thing with the brand on it since the holiday special. In the end, I'd rather have the raging dumpster fire. At least it shook some people awake over at Mouse HQ.
    ...did it?

    Between this and Solo, yeah, it did. They went from a movie a year to shutting it all down.

  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    I think Solo is what really did it. A very troubled production and it flopped* at the box office. RoS really drove the point home, but Solo is what stopped the 'Star Wars Stories' side movies.

    *A flop considering that it was a young Han Solo Star Wars movie and Disney is expecting Avengers level profits out of these things.

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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Yeah, they'd stuck a pin in the spin-offs before TRoS hit.

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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    You know how DC tried super hard to get to Justice League in as few movies as possible and how that didn't pan out? I think something similar happened with how Disney handled Star Wars. Trying to recreate the smash hits of Marvel without understanding the underlying methodology.

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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Good evidence that even Disney don't actually understand how they managed to get the MCU to work.

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  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    That's because it's not actually Disney, it's Marvel. Disney just signs the checks and cashes the box office.

    If you wanted to build a Marvel Studios for Star Wars, you'd put Filoni in charge of everything and start stabling talent. For writers, I'd go for Rebecca Sugar and the creators of Avatar. For directors, just hire the Russo Brothers and a couple of ringers to tag in when they want a break.

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  • Smaug6Smaug6 Registered User regular
    You know how DC tried super hard to get to Justice League in as few movies as possible and how that didn't pan out? I think something similar happened with how Disney handled Star Wars. Trying to recreate the smash hits of Marvel without understanding the underlying methodology.

    Or the rich level of detail and popularity for so many of the characters comprising the avengers. With the elimination of the legacy content from cannon its hard to get people excited for spin off stories. I just think its a fundamentally different product composition and you can't treat them the same way.

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  • SimpsoniaSimpsonia Registered User regular
    edited September 10
    daveNYC wrote: »
    I think Solo is what really did it. A very troubled production and it flopped* at the box office. RoS really drove the point home, but Solo is what stopped the 'Star Wars Stories' side movies.

    *A flop considering that it was a young Han Solo Star Wars movie and Disney is expecting Avengers level profits out of these things.

    I still really want to see the Lord and Miller Solo. I'm sure the mouse has burned that footage, but the Howard version was about as milquetoast and boring as it gets. Given their fantastic work on Lego Movie and Spider-Verse, at the very least I think it would have been stylish, unique, and memorable, rather than the snoozefest we got.

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  • jdarksunjdarksun Struggler Registered User regular
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    That's because it's not actually Disney, it's Marvel. Disney just signs the checks and cashes the box office.
    Don't forget "integrates them directly into theme parks," which is apparently where 80% of the revenue comes from.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Smaug6 wrote: »
    You know how DC tried super hard to get to Justice League in as few movies as possible and how that didn't pan out? I think something similar happened with how Disney handled Star Wars. Trying to recreate the smash hits of Marvel without understanding the underlying methodology.

    Or the rich level of detail and popularity for so many of the characters comprising the avengers. With the elimination of the legacy content from cannon its hard to get people excited for spin off stories. I just think its a fundamentally different product composition and you can't treat them the same way.

    I doubt anyone cared about spin-offs because of Star Wars tie-in fiction.

    The problem in the end with Solo is that it was a shit movie. I think Rogue One demonstrates that just basic competence was enough to make a profit on this kind of thing. Both I think end up being not too far apart on levels of "Did anyone even ask to have this story told?".

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  • SixSix Ask me about my butthole Registered User regular
    Smaug6 wrote: »
    You know how DC tried super hard to get to Justice League in as few movies as possible and how that didn't pan out? I think something similar happened with how Disney handled Star Wars. Trying to recreate the smash hits of Marvel without understanding the underlying methodology.

    Or the rich level of detail and popularity for so many of the characters comprising the avengers. With the elimination of the legacy content from cannon its hard to get people excited for spin off stories. I just think its a fundamentally different product composition and you can't treat them the same way.

    Eliminating all the EU legacy shit is not what’s preventing people from getting excited about spin-off stories. Not telling good spin-off stories prevents people from getting excited about them.

    Competently done spin-off stories will get people excited.

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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Eliminating the legacy stuff was the only sane approach once they decided to make new movies, unless you wanted to have Luke give one line mentions of the thirty-odd times he saved the galaxy from a Superweapon That's Even Worse Than The Death Star and/or Dark Jedi Because We Hadn't Decided on Calling Them Sith Who's Even Worse Than The Emperor.
    They've shown that they're perfectly willing to take parts of that and make them canon again, just without the baggage that would have held them down.
    And well-done spin offs have been liked. This thing about a Mandalorian seemed to go down pretty well. They just need to do things because they're good, rather than just because it's about one of the main characters.

    Like, there's nothing stopping them from doing a Wraith Squadron series besides that they apparently don't want my money.

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  • GiantGeek2020GiantGeek2020 Registered User regular
    Six wrote: »
    Smaug6 wrote: »
    You know how DC tried super hard to get to Justice League in as few movies as possible and how that didn't pan out? I think something similar happened with how Disney handled Star Wars. Trying to recreate the smash hits of Marvel without understanding the underlying methodology.

    Or the rich level of detail and popularity for so many of the characters comprising the avengers. With the elimination of the legacy content from cannon its hard to get people excited for spin off stories. I just think its a fundamentally different product composition and you can't treat them the same way.

    Eliminating all the EU legacy shit is not what’s preventing people from getting excited about spin-off stories. Not telling good spin-off stories prevents people from getting excited about them.

    Competently done spin-off stories will get people excited.

    Like rebels or the mandalorian!

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  • KetarKetar Come on upstairs we're having a partyRegistered User regular
    Smaug6 wrote: »
    You know how DC tried super hard to get to Justice League in as few movies as possible and how that didn't pan out? I think something similar happened with how Disney handled Star Wars. Trying to recreate the smash hits of Marvel without understanding the underlying methodology.

    Or the rich level of detail and popularity for so many of the characters comprising the avengers. With the elimination of the legacy content from cannon its hard to get people excited for spin off stories. I just think its a fundamentally different product composition and you can't treat them the same way.

    The actual number of people who care about anything to do with legacy content is a tiny drop in the bucket of box office expectations.

  • mRahmanimRahmani DetroitRegistered User regular
    They’ve also shown a willingness to bring things back from the EU, like Thrawn.

    And Palpatine clones.

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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    And superweapon proliferation

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    mRahmani wrote: »
    They’ve also shown a willingness to bring things back from the EU, like Thrawn.

    And Palpatine clones.

    Yeah, we got potentially the best of both worlds on that front. Kill off everything and then just pick and choose what you want to work back into the canon. If you are doing it well, it's great.

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  • ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Western coastal temptressRegistered User regular
    And superweapon proliferation

    Yeah, this needs to be fixed to stop it from being eye-rolly.

    Perhaps a new trilogy which centers on the space-SALT conferences between various factions. There is precedent for Star Wars trilogies involving issues such as trade disputes!

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Smaug6 wrote: »
    You know how DC tried super hard to get to Justice League in as few movies as possible and how that didn't pan out? I think something similar happened with how Disney handled Star Wars. Trying to recreate the smash hits of Marvel without understanding the underlying methodology.

    Or the rich level of detail and popularity for so many of the characters comprising the avengers. With the elimination of the legacy content from cannon its hard to get people excited for spin off stories. I just think its a fundamentally different product composition and you can't treat them the same way.

    I doubt anyone cared about spin-offs because of Star Wars tie-in fiction.

    The problem in the end with Solo is that it was a shit movie. I think Rogue One demonstrates that just basic competence was enough to make a profit on this kind of thing. Both I think end up being not too far apart on levels of "Did anyone even ask to have this story told?".

    It’s less “did anyone even ask to have this story told?” And more “is there any reason to tell this story?”

    I didn’t ask for a Blade Runner sequel and iirc i was pretty trepidatious about it until the trailer made it look amazing. But there definitely was a reason to tell that story.

    Rogue one someone had a reason to tell the story. Solo? no one did. (Or if they did they got fired)

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  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    mRahmani wrote: »
    They’ve also shown a willingness to bring things back from the EU, like Thrawn.

    And Palpatine clones.

    Yeah, we got potentially the best of both worlds on that front. Kill off everything and then just pick and choose what you want to work back into the canon. If you are doing it well, it's great.

    And we have had mixed results depending on who is doing it.

    Filloni brought back Inquisitors, Thrawn, and the TIE Defender.

    JJ brought back Palpatine clones. I mean I was at that point expecting LUUKE! to show up.

    I think the difference is when you bring stuff back you have a plan for it verse just because you think it is "cool."

    Also judging by Squadrons it seems Rogue Squadron is canon and back and Wedge is running it. So there is a good movie waiting to happen.

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    The MCU, for example, constantly mines the comics for stories even though they aren't in the same canon. In reality canonicity is largely irrelevant, especially across mediums, for the vast majority of people. The main reason Disney explicitly said that the old EU stuff wasn't canon was so they wouldn't have to do the work of trying to consolidate all those stories into a coherent whole. And also so they could do everything themselves with a fresh slate for the $$$. It wasn't because they hated the content itself (although much of it sounds pretty rough, secondhand).

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  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    The MCU, for example, constantly mines the comics for stories even though they aren't in the same canon. In reality canonicity is largely irrelevant, especially across mediums, for the vast majority of people. The main reason Disney explicitly said that the old EU stuff wasn't canon was so they wouldn't have to do the work of trying to consolidate all those stories into a coherent whole. And also so they could do everything themselves with a fresh slate for the $$$. It wasn't because they hated the content itself (although much of it sounds pretty rough, secondhand).

    The old EU was very...peaks and valleys. When it was good, it was some of the best stuff in the franchise and added tons of depth to the movies. When it wasn't good, we got stuff that would've embarrassed '70s Marvel.

    I advocated a reboot years before the Disney purchase; it's the only thing that made sense, especially after the New Jedi Order/Legacy of the Force boondoggle. Wiping the slate clean and cherry-picked what worked is about the only good institutional-level choice Disney's made.

    Speaking of NJO, I think a...curated version of the Yuuzhan Vong would've been good villains for the ST, if only for being different than the Empire.

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  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    Seriously, any kind of threat that wasn't just a rehash of the Empire would've worked. Hell, a series focused on the rise of new fascism from the ashes of the Empire would've worked (as in, actually showing it rather than just fast forwarding to "yup, that happened all right.").

    Instead they went for the worst possible situation - the same conflict with the same people and aesthetics, with the reasoning for it shunted off into ancillary media.

    They had a literal universe of ideas they could've explored, and decided to just do the same thing that had been done for 6 films. Such a wasted opportunity.

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  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    I don't count the Palpatine clone as being pulled from the EU because I'm dead certain that Abrams was totally convinced it was a brilliant, unique, nobody-will-ever-expect-this idea and had no clue the EU did that ages ago. So it's not an EU legacy thing, it's just parallel terrible ideas from terrible writing. This also makes it even more appalling that it's now canon again because the whole point of wiping the EU was to get rid of the worst of the junk holding the franchise back, and clone Palpatine wasn't quite Vong stuff but it was still real bad.

    You could also tell me Abrams never even watched the whole OT and thus also thought one-upping the trilogy superweapon was also an original idea and I'd believe that easily.

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