The good, the bad and [The Mandalorian] OPEN SPOILERS

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  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    Its still confusing to me that we are only 30? years out from the Jedi being at the height of their power and (in)famous across the galaxy for leading the GAR. The Jedi, via Maul, being intricately involved in the events of Mandalore only 30-ish years before. And the Jedi are only known as a mysterious race of sorcerers, or however it was phrased, by the Armorer's voiceover? I like that mystique better as it feels more in line with the intent as laid out by Ben in ANH when he explains the Jedi to Luke....but it does not match the greater narrative as set out in the prequels/Clone Wars.

    I remember all kinds of shit from 30 years ago. Imperial propaganda or not, the entire galaxy simply forgets the Jedi? It a disconnect that has bothered me about the Star Wars universe since the prequels.

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  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited September 16
    They never address this well, but it would be entirely reasonable to me that it was less that the galaxy forgot and more that it never knew much about the Jedi in the first place. At the start of the PT, the Jedi are legendary figures to the point that any of them just showing up caused people leading fleets to just about crap themselves. Kid Anakin genuinely believed you couldn't kill a Jedi. During the war, it was a relative handful of Jedi leading a massive army of Clone Troopers (who aged quickly and died and virtually none of them lived into civilian life) versus a huge droid army that was destroyed/shut down. The average Jedi lived among other Jedi in the temple and virtually none of them had families (supposedly). So even on Corsucant, home of the Jedi Council, you could easily live your whole life there and never ever so much as see a Jedi in your entire life.

    Then the Empire kicked into high gear and made a major effort to kill the Jedi and wipe out all trace of them. Just knowing too much about Jedi was probably a death sentence, so even people who knew about them quickly learned to shut the hell up and not talk about Jedi. All you need is a generation of that and something that was a legend drops out of common knowledge completely, particularly when an intergalactic fleet goes around doing orbital strikes to wipe out any and all Jedi structures they find.

    It's just another one of those things that could've easily been explained decently if Lucas didn't keep a chokehold on the writing and was more obsessed with playing with new CG tech than making a decent trilogy. Even just a minute or two at the end of the final film showing Vader chasing down Jedi and the Empire trying to wipe out their legacy would've been a hell of a lot better than "and then suddenly, nobody remembers them in twenty years even though most everybody alive watched the war happen."

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  • MatevMatev Cero Miedo Registered User regular
    I will say, one thing the new Marvel comics have been doing is some heavy lifting on Vader finding and murdering the hell out of any and all Jedi he can catch wind of

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  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    It’s also a weird universe with advance AI and FTL communication but whose equivalent of internet operates more like broadcast radio and television.

    Assuming communication spread how you’d expect in the 70’s it helps understand why people out in the boonies wouldn’t know as much.

    Which I know is more thought than Lucas ever put in to it.

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  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    I think, for me, it's a length of time issue. When I was a kid, I imagined the Clone Wars to be 50+ years before ANH, not 20.

    The Emporer's efforts to erase the Jeid from the galaxy I can get behind as a concept. Just not in 20 years. 20 years does not feel like enough time to erase 1000's of years of Jedi legend.

    Meh. It's a minor thing that does not stop me from enjoying this show at all. But it IS something that sticks out to me.

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  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    It’s also worth remembering that mass communication in this universe doesn’t really exist. There’s long range holo telephones, but no internet, no email or SMS, etc. everything you hear about is locally sourced news, and if you’re not on a major planet like Coruscant you’re probably not getting holo billboards telling you things.

    In that kind of universe, 90% of the galactic population probably never heard of Jedi or Sith, and most of those that did thought it was a load of rubbish.

    We see movies from the tippy top of society. Remember even Han though it was a load of shit in ANH, and I think even until he faces Vader on Bespin?

    This series is mostly people at Hans level in ANH or lower in society. Can’t say much for the main character though. He’s in a unique position where while he’s about ANH Hans level in general society, he really should know who the Jedi were.

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Once the Mandalorian is over, I'm down for a Star Wars reboot. Like they do with the comics. Just wipe the slate clean and start over - same universe, maybe even the same characters, just different stories and continuity.

  • AtomikaAtomika Gold-star Onanist Registered User regular
    Also, if I’m recalling correctly, the Jedi were never like, an army or large police force. They were more like the equivalent of marshals or rangers, of whom I’ve met maybe one or two my entire life despite living in large urban areas most of my life.

    If all of a sudden we stopped having marshals, literally no one would notice outside of law enforcement.

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  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    -Loki- wrote: »
    It’s also worth remembering that mass communication in this universe doesn’t really exist. There’s long range holo telephones, but no internet, no email or SMS, etc. everything you hear about is locally sourced news, and if you’re not on a major planet like Coruscant you’re probably not getting holo billboards telling you things.

    In that kind of universe, 90% of the galactic population probably never heard of Jedi or Sith, and most of those that did thought it was a load of rubbish.

    We see movies from the tippy top of society. Remember even Han though it was a load of shit in ANH, and I think even until he faces Vader on Bespin?

    This series is mostly people at Hans level in ANH or lower in society. Can’t say much for the main character though. He’s in a unique position where while he’s about ANH Hans level in general society, he really should know who the Jedi were.

    Yeah, Han personally watches Luke pull off some impossible magic shit he can't explain and what's his first response to seeing Vader, reputed Master of Impossible Magic Shit? Shoot. Repeatedly. Heck, Han was even part of the Empire military and still didn't know anything about the Jedi from that, even though it had been an Empire objective to wipe out the Jedi from the start.

    I'd say Han is more cynical than most, but he's also seen a lot more than most and still doesn't buy into the Force or Jedi until some guy in black swats his blaster bolts out of the air and yanks the blaster out his hand without touching it.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Eh it makes sense, the Jedi feel like something you'd hear of in a passing but never have a personal interaction with in the star wars universe. Like Han calls Obi Won believing in the force as a "hokey" religion.

    Most of the universe feels like they are just getting by and aren't worldly. Even soldiers are just seeing what their leaders show them.

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  • WiseManTobesWiseManTobes Registered User regular
    Don't forget that half the time someone saw a Jedi they were mind tricked into forgetting shortly after

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  • Havelock2.0Havelock2.0 Registered User regular
    Also consider that after Order 66 Palps basically destroyed anything and everything Jedi flavored or scented, and anyone with actual knowledge of the Jedi got tracked down by Vader and the Inquisitors

    I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    In this case though, it seems more like he's aware of the Jedi, but not the finer points of them. In the same way most people only knew of them as legends and stories, even the Mandalorians probably never really learned about their organizational structure and such (after all, when there's only ever the one around usually, maybe two...)

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  • Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    I also feel like it’s pointing out that Mando could easily have grown up ignorant of the Jedi. From his memories, it was entirely possible he was from somewhere the Jedi hadn’t even been to when shit went down, and then he’s off to live in careful hiding learning The Way and etc.

    He strikes me as someone who, beyond the traditions he’s embraced and the convictions he carries, gets by on experience. Jedi haven’t been a thing for him to learn about during his on-the-job training. Until now.

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  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    Once the Mandalorian is over, I'm down for a Star Wars reboot. Like they do with the comics. Just wipe the slate clean and start over - same universe, maybe even the same characters, just different stories and continuity.

    I hate to tell you this but you're already in the reboot. The entire EU was dumped for a new canon

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited September 16
    Once the Mandalorian is over, I'm down for a Star Wars reboot. Like they do with the comics. Just wipe the slate clean and start over - same universe, maybe even the same characters, just different stories and continuity.

    I hate to tell you this but you're already in the reboot. The entire EU was dumped for a new canon

    Yes, but... what if we had one that was actually good?
    (pffft, like that could ever happen.)


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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Once the Mandalorian is over, I'm down for a Star Wars reboot. Like they do with the comics. Just wipe the slate clean and start over - same universe, maybe even the same characters, just different stories and continuity.

    I hate to tell you this but you're already in the reboot. The entire EU was dumped for a new canon

    Yeah that's not a reboot, that's an excision.

  • AtomikaAtomika Gold-star Onanist Registered User regular
    The EU was dumped, but they’re folding much of it back in. Thrawn, the Mandalorians, Han & Chewie’s backstory, Crimson Dawn . . . bits and pieces.

    Which is fine. The EU was a big brown turd with only a few flecks of gold.

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  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    Once the Mandalorian is over, I'm down for a Star Wars reboot. Like they do with the comics. Just wipe the slate clean and start over - same universe, maybe even the same characters, just different stories and continuity.

    I hate to tell you this but you're already in the reboot. The entire EU was dumped for a new canon

    Yeah that's not a reboot, that's an excision.

    Releasing new content that removed old stuff. from continuity while using a lot of the same characters is a reboot.

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  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    Once the Mandalorian is over, I'm down for a Star Wars reboot. Like they do with the comics. Just wipe the slate clean and start over - same universe, maybe even the same characters, just different stories and continuity.

    I hate to tell you this but you're already in the reboot. The entire EU was dumped for a new canon

    Yeah that's not a reboot, that's an excision.

    It was never an excision and frankly I still think that particular piece of PR speak never got enough credit.

    They came out and basically said "The EU is gone, except the parts we want to keep, those will still be canon, and no we're not telling you what they are at this time."

    They rather brilliantly excused themselves from the dumbass fights on the internet about what is and isn't canon with a single announcement while still managing to be able to use whatever the hell they want whenever they want and frankly I'm still a little in awe of it.

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  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    Once the Mandalorian is over, I'm down for a Star Wars reboot. Like they do with the comics. Just wipe the slate clean and start over - same universe, maybe even the same characters, just different stories and continuity.

    I hate to tell you this but you're already in the reboot. The entire EU was dumped for a new canon

    Yeah that's not a reboot, that's an excision.

    It was never an excision and frankly I still think that particular piece of PR speak never got enough credit.

    They came out and basically said "The EU is gone, except the parts we want to keep, those will still be canon, and no we're not telling you what they are at this time."

    They rather brilliantly excused themselves from the dumbass fights on the internet about what is and isn't canon with a single announcement while still managing to be able to use whatever the hell they want whenever they want and frankly I'm still a little in awe of it.

    If only that level of competence extended to the ST.

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  • jdarksunjdarksun Struggler Registered User regular
    Rumor is Pedro Pascal wanted more scenes with the helmet off in season 2, butting heads with the Favreau and Filoni then trying to go over their heads to Lucasfilm... and got told to walk off set because of it.

    Which, hey. If you're portraying the character, I understand wanting your face to be associated with it. But at the same time ... That's not the role. You knew what the role was. (if the rumors are true, which, meh, rumors)

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  • MonwynMonwyn Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Rumor is Pedro Pascal wanted more scenes with the helmet off in season 2, butting heads with the Favreau and Filoni then trying to go over their heads to Lucasfilm... and got told to walk off set because of it.

    Which, hey. If you're portraying the character, I understand wanting your face to be associated with it. But at the same time ... That's not the role. You knew what the role was. (if the rumors are true, which, meh, rumors)

    This is also a big part of why characters often take their helmets off in movies in situations where it makes little/no sense.

    Off the top of my head Dredd and The Expanse are the only things I've seen that didn't cause me to roll my eyes for this reason.

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  • AtomikaAtomika Gold-star Onanist Registered User regular
    I’m with Pascal. If they don’t want his face, he doesn’t need to be on-set.

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  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    edited September 16
    Monwyn wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Rumor is Pedro Pascal wanted more scenes with the helmet off in season 2, butting heads with the Favreau and Filoni then trying to go over their heads to Lucasfilm... and got told to walk off set because of it.

    Which, hey. If you're portraying the character, I understand wanting your face to be associated with it. But at the same time ... That's not the role. You knew what the role was. (if the rumors are true, which, meh, rumors)

    This is also a big part of why characters often take their helmets off in movies in situations where it makes little/no sense.

    Off the top of my head Dredd and The Expanse are the only things I've seen that didn't cause me to roll my eyes for this reason.

    Toby Maquire's Spiderman was SUPER guilty of this. I kept yelling at the screen (on my DVD copies, maybe only once in the theatre), "Damnit Peter! Put your mask back on!"

    I kinda feel for Pascal, as he's not getting enough credit for the acting work he's doing under a helmet the whole time. But yeah, he knew the job.

    Atomika wrote: »
    I’m with Pascal. If they don’t want his face, he doesn’t need to be on-set.

    Also true. But, I would assume, the pay scale for voice-over work is significantly less than on screen acting work.

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 16
    Atomika wrote: »
    I’m with Pascal. If they don’t want his face, he doesn’t need to be on-set.

    You can emote with physicality.
    Atomika wrote: »
    Also, if I’m recalling correctly, the Jedi were never like, an army or large police force. They were more like the equivalent of marshals or rangers, of whom I’ve met maybe one or two my entire life despite living in large urban areas most of my life.

    If all of a sudden we stopped having marshals, literally no one would notice outside of law enforcement.

    Or like, if there a special division of Marines that used magic powers. And you never overtly saw them use magic powers.

    And then the government comes down later and says those guys were all traitors and also didn’t have magic powers.

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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited September 16
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    Monwyn wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Rumor is Pedro Pascal wanted more scenes with the helmet off in season 2, butting heads with the Favreau and Filoni then trying to go over their heads to Lucasfilm... and got told to walk off set because of it.

    Which, hey. If you're portraying the character, I understand wanting your face to be associated with it. But at the same time ... That's not the role. You knew what the role was. (if the rumors are true, which, meh, rumors)

    This is also a big part of why characters often take their helmets off in movies in situations where it makes little/no sense.

    Off the top of my head Dredd and The Expanse are the only things I've seen that didn't cause me to roll my eyes for this reason.

    Toby Maquire's Spiderman was SUPER guilty of this. I kept yelling at the screen (on my DVD copies, maybe only once in the theatre), "Damnit Peter! Put your mask back on!"

    I kinda feel for Pascal, as he's not getting enough credit for the acting work he's doing under a helmet the whole time. But yeah, he knew the job.

    Atomika wrote: »
    I’m with Pascal. If they don’t want his face, he doesn’t need to be on-set.

    Also true. But, I would assume, the pay scale for voice-over work is significantly less than on screen acting work.

    This last was a big factor in Norton being replaces in Avengers. He was set to be very well paid for the job, but the job was a few scenes of his face and then a lot of screaming and roaring and saying puny god in a sound booth so he was still making less than anyone else.

    Hevach on
  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    Atomika wrote: »
    I’m with Pascal. If they don’t want his face, he doesn’t need to be on-set.

    As I understand it he wasnt on set much begin with

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  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    There was a galaxy wide "internet" was there not? How could there not be? In the Legends continuity there was a Holonet maintained by the Republic which was severely limited during the reign of the Empire. I can't understand why this would have been removed in the nu-canon. It makes too much sense. A massively widespread galactic government, populated from end to end with civilizations that are high on technological scale and are pretty much all spacefarers. A communications network covering the whole thing should be a no-brainer.

    Given the campy news-caster voice overs given in the Clone Wars show, leads me to believe that the Republic propaganda machine would be working overtime to showcase the heroic Jedi generals and their clone troops fighting the good fight against those damn dirty Separatists. But that's just my headcannon, I suppose.

  • GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    If Sabine's or Bo Katan's appearances are not flashbacks, they can influence Din Dijarin to cast off the more ritualized aspects of his Mando faction.

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  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited September 16
    Atomika wrote: »
    I’m with Pascal. If they don’t want his face, he doesn’t need to be on-set.

    As I understand it he wasnt on set much begin with

    Yeah, and I'm not trying to cast any aspersions on mister Pascal's acting ability, but most of the performance of the Mandalorian (at least in season 1) was the work of Brendan Wayne. He's the person you see most of the time when Mando is on screen.

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  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    Pascal wasn’t around much for filming the first season, don’t know about second. I’d guess he was around more, and wanted the helmet off so people would know it.

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Pascal wasn’t around much for filming the first season, don’t know about second. I’d guess he was around more, and wanted the helmet off so people would know it.

    Given how much season 1 dedicated to why he doesn’t take off his helmet

    He shouldn’t take off his helmet

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  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    Pascal wasn’t around much for filming the first season, don’t know about second. I’d guess he was around more, and wanted the helmet off so people would know it.

    Given how much season 1 dedicated to why he doesn’t take off his helmet

    He shouldn’t take off his helmet

    Not unless he, as a character, grows enough through the season to "earn" that story beat.

    Just because Pedro's agent bitches about it enough? No thanks.

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  • Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    This feels very much like the kind of speculation a show where the main character’s face stays obscured would generate after being successful.

    Much as I think the word is overused to describe anything that works, the Mandalorian’s helmet is iconic. Both for the purposes of stamping the public consciousness with the distinctive look of a show, and for the character’s purposes within that show as he goes about his business.

    Unless the season has lots of downtime scenes where Mando is, like, bathing in a hot spring or sipping tea, I don’t see any reason why we’d be seeing less of the helmet.

  • MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    I thought Mando did a great job of emoting. Brendan did a lot with a few head turns.

    Add in some Carvill's 'hmm's and we'll have acting unlike the world has ever seen.

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Rumor is Pedro Pascal wanted more scenes with the helmet off in season 2, butting heads with the Favreau and Filoni then trying to go over their heads to Lucasfilm... and got told to walk off set because of it.

    Which, hey. If you're portraying the character, I understand wanting your face to be associated with it. But at the same time ... That's not the role. You knew what the role was. (if the rumors are true, which, meh, rumors)

    Do you have a source for this? "Rumors on the internet" is basically the same thing as "I overheard at 7-11" except there's a 72% greater chance that the rumor came from a bot in Russia.

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  • bwaniebwanie Posting into the void Registered User regular
    It seems from a known source on the set?

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    bwanie wrote: »
    It seems from a known source on the set?

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  • jdarksunjdarksun Struggler Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Rumor is Pedro Pascal wanted more scenes with the helmet off in season 2, butting heads with the Favreau and Filoni then trying to go over their heads to Lucasfilm... and got told to walk off set because of it.

    Which, hey. If you're portraying the character, I understand wanting your face to be associated with it. But at the same time ... That's not the role. You knew what the role was. (if the rumors are true, which, meh, rumors)
    Do you have a source for this? "Rumors on the internet" is basically the same thing as "I overheard at 7-11" except there's a 72% greater chance that the rumor came from a bot in Russia.
    YouTuber Grace Randolph is the source of the rumors, but based on her interactions with Cathy Yan on twitter I deeply regret repeating anything Grace Randolph uttered and I sure as fuck won't be including a link to "news site" that repeated it.

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