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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Not a Fictional Character Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    I was being hyperbolic about the Remedial English thing but it really is terrible writing.

    I mean colleges have terrible writing standards anyways.

  • MrMisterMrMister Please demonstrate your enthusiasm for e-marking and/or e-assessment with examplesRegistered User regular
    Tumin wrote: »
    Cant you just throw away "the key to" and be done? Maybe "is one that" too.

    it is definitely wordy in an unhelpful way, but i also wonder if there's a specific name or w/e i can use instead of just like "i didn't like this when i read it, less of this"

    awkwardly I am expected to teach basic composition despite my degree being in IDEAS and having no functional grasp of language

  • Donkey KongDonkey Kong Wrote, directed, and starred in a Chick-fil-a commercial about respecting the police Registered User regular
    edited September 17
    Most YA books are garbage but kids are little garbage eating machines when it comes to media. At least the mechanical act of reading is good no matter what.

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  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    P10 wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    At the very least, if you're going to hand your kid Harry Potter, start off explaining to them that the content of these books may contain content that will lead them down an unhealthy path if they aren't critical about it, and if they write like that in college they will be be taking remedial English.
    this is a completely ridiculous thing to say and comes across as performative bashing of harry potter because of rowling's political beliefs

    I have been saying that Harry Potter is badly written for well over a decade.

    I mean I do have time traveling powers but still.

    I mean they aren't Tolkien, but they aren't bad for what they are. YA escapist fantasy,
    Brody wrote: »
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    The Potter books are awful completely outside Rowling being a bigot

    Find something else to read, don’t tie yourself up in knots with mental gymnastics

    All YA is awful!

    I can't tell my 10yo to go read Dune.

    Or maybe I should.

    @zagdrob The Mistborn series is pretty good, and as far as I know Sanderson hasn't turned out to be a bigot yet.

    Ordering the series based on this alone.

    My kid needs and loves books as long as there is more than a screen. She is reading through the other books by Percy Jacksons author and the Bones Kathy Reichs YA series. So this will be good next.

    Then probably Hunger Games cause she is borderline.

    It's weird being aware and controlling media when my own parents were like 'fuck it, whatever'.

    My only media restriction was my sister and I dhouldnt watch Married With Children when my dad took naps. But we did anyway.

  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    Also, the descriptor YA is garbage, and doesn't define anything.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
  • Donkey KongDonkey Kong Wrote, directed, and starred in a Chick-fil-a commercial about respecting the police Registered User regular
    edited September 17
    I read a lot of Piers Anthony books at an age when the puns, parody, and creepy sex wish fulfillment went over my head. All that was left was some poorly conceived boilerplate magic fantasy journey, with bits stolen from better works and warmed over. I loved it.

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  • SixSix Ask me about my butthole Registered User regular
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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Not a Fictional Character Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    P10 wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    At the very least, if you're going to hand your kid Harry Potter, start off explaining to them that the content of these books may contain content that will lead them down an unhealthy path if they aren't critical about it, and if they write like that in college they will be be taking remedial English.
    this is a completely ridiculous thing to say and comes across as performative bashing of harry potter because of rowling's political beliefs

    I have been saying that Harry Potter is badly written for well over a decade.

    I mean I do have time traveling powers but still.

    I mean they aren't Tolkien, but they aren't bad for what they are. YA escapist fantasy,

    She uses language poorly. Like, her actual sentences are what I'm talking about.

    The story is bad, too, but I mean her actual mastery of the English language is not super great.

    Long, long ago, I tried to give Harry Potter a shot, and the writing quality itself turned me off *hard*.

    The setting was always nonsense, but I would only learn just how bad the story was years and years later, and I don't know it very well.

    But the writing was just notably bad. And my standards aren't that dang high! I was reading D&D novels and the like at the time.

  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    Wicker Basket is an excellent name for a YA protagonist.

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  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    MrMister wrote: »
    Here's an unidentifiable snippet of an extremely common way that the writing I get is un-good.
    Hedonism is the belief that the key to a quality life is one that fully consists of pleasure and no pain.

    Forgetting the accuracy of the content, this sentence is a struggle. On the one hand, it would make sense if it said the key to a quality life was that it be full of pleasure and no pain. On the other, it would also make sense if it said that a quality life is one that is full of pleasure and no pain. But I'm pretty sure that how it's actually written, "one" refers back to "key" and it ends up literally saying that the key in the figure of speech is what is full of pleasure and not pain, which is a weird category error. Or am I hallucinating that?

    "Evil Multifarious" tell me how to copy edit this kind of sentence structure in a way that will be constructive, which is like your actual job, but for free and online

    I understand that "one" refers to "quality life" however only from context and after reading the sentence a few times.

    So... yeah, it bad

  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Most YA books are garbage but kids are little garbage eating machines when it comes to media. At least the mechanical act of reading is good no matter what.

    I cant think of a better description of me from 10 to 16-18.

    I was embarrassed when we donated my teenage ;book collection. So much old man fiction and garbage sci-fi bought because the book cover looked interesting at Barnes and Noble.

    Luckily I donated it years ago so the only shame I carry within myself.

  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    I think I hit mostly did Redwall and Animorphs, then in Middle school and High school pivoted to weighty fiction tomes like Dragonlance and Malazan.

    But there are a lot of novels that have been labeled YA recently, in the hopes that those books might sell better. In the "genre is a fiction pushed by publishing companies to sell things", YA is literally a genre created by publishing companies to sell books.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
  • Donkey KongDonkey Kong Wrote, directed, and starred in a Chick-fil-a commercial about respecting the police Registered User regular
    The Hunger Games was ok but I think there's a few puzzling things in there. They construct a neat political situation but then never really do much with it. The book doesn't have a lot to say beyond "cruelty is bad".

    Then there was the strong female lead who fell into a dumbass "which boy do i love" subplot that ate up a huge amount of all the books and could not have been less interesting.

    It had the makings of a more interesting story but the author wasn't interested and the audience wasn't interested.

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  • TuminTumin Registered User regular
    edited September 17
    MrMister wrote: »
    Tumin wrote: »
    Cant you just throw away "the key to" and be done? Maybe "is one that" too.

    it is definitely wordy in an unhelpful way, but i also wonder if there's a specific name or w/e i can use instead of just like "i didn't like this when i read it, less of this"

    awkwardly I am expected to teach basic composition despite my degree being in IDEAS and having no functional grasp of language

    Hmmm. I think "too wordy" is perfectly descriptive but doesn't really help a weak student who hasn't seen enough examples to identify and fix the issue on their own.

    Purdue's Writing Lab (my main resource back when) headlines their advice on this particular issue with "eliminate unnecessary determiners and modifiers" which seems useless to tell someone who doesnt have a sense for wordiness, but they describe the idea clearly and do give some good examples. I know you're not looking for five magic words to describe it so it clicks, not sure why I'm bashing that description. Anyway.

    https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/general_writing/academic_writing/conciseness/eliminating_words.html

    Tumin on
    MrMister
  • MrMisterMrMister Please demonstrate your enthusiasm for e-marking and/or e-assessment with examplesRegistered User regular
    Tumin = hero

  • TuminTumin Registered User regular
    Dont encourage my overeagerness

  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Not a Fictional Character Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    I read a lot of novels as a kid that weren't terribly sophisticated but were enough to keep my attention at the time. Xanth, MythAdventures, Pern, Dealing with Dragons, and D&D whatever, because the library had those.

    Not going to defend any of those.

  • SummaryJudgmentSummaryJudgment Today we will paint a mountain that owes us nothing. Registered User regular
    Hey, what AIB partner are ya'll using for the 3080, or are you going FE?

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  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    Say what you will about YA at least kids aren’t reading Piers Anthony any more

    *as far as I know

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
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  • MrMisterMrMister Please demonstrate your enthusiasm for e-marking and/or e-assessment with examplesRegistered User regular
    Piers Anthony was weird but also it's generally okay if kids read some weird shit

    JebusUDElldren
  • MimMim COME ON, TOSHI! Registered User regular
    my dad tried to get me to read Piers Anthony because he loved Piers Anthony growing up.

    I couldn't get into it.

    Sage everything. Even your genitals.
    HappylilElf
  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Would most of us consider Dragonriders
    Hey, what AIB partner are ya'll using for the 3080, or are you going FE?

    First one I can get MSRP without jumping through hoops.

    I really don't care about the marginal differences, I'm just not driving to Madison Heights at 2 in the morning or fighting bots or paying reseller premiums.

  • Donkey KongDonkey Kong Wrote, directed, and starred in a Chick-fil-a commercial about respecting the police Registered User regular
    Tumin wrote: »
    MrMister wrote: »
    Tumin wrote: »
    Cant you just throw away "the key to" and be done? Maybe "is one that" too.

    it is definitely wordy in an unhelpful way, but i also wonder if there's a specific name or w/e i can use instead of just like "i didn't like this when i read it, less of this"

    awkwardly I am expected to teach basic composition despite my degree being in IDEAS and having no functional grasp of language

    Hmmm. I think "too wordy" is perfectly descriptive but doesn't really help a weak student who hasn't seen enough examples to identify and fix the issue on their own.

    Purdue's Writing Lab (my main resource back when) headlines their advice on this particular issue with "eliminate unnecessary determiners and modifiers" which seems useless to tell someone who doesnt have a sense for wordiness, but they describe the idea clearly and do give some good examples. I know you're not looking for five magic words to describe it so it clicks, not sure why I'm bashing that description. Anyway.

    https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/general_writing/academic_writing/conciseness/eliminating_words.html

    kn2mp74w51bl.png

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Not a Fictional Character Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Mim wrote: »
    my dad tried to get me to read Piers Anthony because he loved Piers Anthony growing up.

    I couldn't get into it.

    As I recall, it got worse the more I read it. Panties became way too much of a focal point.

  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    I read Wheel of Time in early middle school? At least what was out when I was in early middle school/high school. I caught up at some point in ~10th grade, and he was taking forever, and then I got caught up in Malazan books the Fallen.

    The Hobbit and LotR are probably good.
    The first couple Dragonlance novels are likely good at that age.
    I think I started Wheel of Time around then, but iirc Robert Jordan is one of those people who relies on sex crimes to make bad people feel more bad.
    The Temeraire series by Naomi Novik is kinda YA feeling. Dragons in Napoleon era naval wars.
    The Power by Naomi Alderman was good
    Gabriel by Garth Nix and it's sequels
    The Golden Compass, although after reading she may try to attack and dethrone God

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
  • Donkey KongDonkey Kong Wrote, directed, and starred in a Chick-fil-a commercial about respecting the police Registered User regular
    Also when looking down on YA novels, remember how many of us watched and liked Power Rangers. That show was insane for the first season or two. They just filmed some underwritten Nickelodeon slapstick teen high bullshit with the lowest paid actors they could find, and spliced it with an unrelated japansese sentai show.

    It rarely made sense. Each episode was essentially a shitpost.

    Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Not a Fictional Character Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited September 17
    Why would you watch Power Rangers when you could watch Beetleborgs.

    Incenjucar on
  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    I've got 4 more levels to go through before I consider myself 100% cleared on Doom 2016. Not really gonna touch the multiplayer, might grab the snapmap low hanging fruit.

    I tell you, you feel like an unbelievable killing machine at the end of the game. Just being able to lay down infinite ammo on the cyberdemon is soooo so satisfying. especially when using the mobile turret or the siege cannon.

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  • TuminTumin Registered User regular
    edited September 17
    I think the first Pern book with dragons fucking is what led me down a path of darkness as a kid

    Those sexy, sexy, entwined dragons

    I also read Applegate's very horny norse themed YA series Everworld after I ran out of Animorphs which I suspect were dropped by Scholastic for being too horny

    Tumin on
    zagdrobIncenjucar
  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Also when looking down on YA novels, remember how many of us watched and liked Power Rangers. That show was insane for the first season or two. They just filmed some underwritten Nickelodeon slapstick teen high bullshit with the lowest paid actors they could find, and spliced it with an unrelated japansese sentai show.

    It rarely made sense. Each episode was essentially a shitpost.

    I mean our cartoons were basically moving pictures to sell toys.

    GenX got the worst of it and millenials got marginally better cartoons but it was all bought the maximum dollar value of our time except the commercials were worth more than the cartions which gave some creative freedom.

    IncenjucarElldren
  • KamiroKamiro Registered User regular
    Also when looking down on YA novels, remember how many of us watched and liked Power Rangers. That show was insane for the first season or two. They just filmed some underwritten Nickelodeon slapstick teen high bullshit with the lowest paid actors they could find, and spliced it with an unrelated japansese sentai show.

    It rarely made sense. Each episode was essentially a shitpost.

    Excuse me

    the episode where the monster was a pig and used food as a weapon was genius

  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    Also when looking down on YA novels, remember how many of us watched and liked Power Rangers. That show was insane for the first season or two. They just filmed some underwritten Nickelodeon slapstick teen high bullshit with the lowest paid actors they could find, and spliced it with an unrelated japansese sentai show.

    It rarely made sense. Each episode was essentially a shitpost.

    And yet, if Saban showed the original sentai show dubbed here in America, it would have been a huge flop. I am 101% certain American kids would only accept Jason, Billy, Trini, Zack, and Kimberly.

  • KamiroKamiro Registered User regular
    But really, Green Ranger -> White Ranger.

    Top 10 Anime Moments

  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    Also when looking down on YA novels, remember how many of us watched and liked Power Rangers. That show was insane for the first season or two. They just filmed some underwritten Nickelodeon slapstick teen high bullshit with the lowest paid actors they could find, and spliced it with an unrelated japansese sentai show.

    It rarely made sense. Each episode was essentially a shitpost.

    Wait, was it really this bad? I need to go find these too watch.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
    Tuminzagdrob
  • ZavianZavian Registered User regular
    meanwhile, on some desolate plain....

  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    I'm still to this day glad I bounced off Power Rangers as being a kids show.

    Now VR Troopers? That was cool on TV20.

    SummaryJudgment
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Heys kids what about reading

    *spins chair around backwards*

    The Bible?

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Not a Fictional Character Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited September 17
    I'm the last person to take issue with people for enjoying unspectacular art. I have read and watched some truly unimpressive stuff and will continue to do so. The thing is to remain critical of it when it's relevant to do so, like when introducing it to less critical young minds or when paying the bills of someone who is actively harmful.

    Incenjucar on
  • SummaryJudgmentSummaryJudgment Today we will paint a mountain that owes us nothing. Registered User regular
    zagdrob wrote: »
    I'm still to this day glad I bounced off Power Rangers as being a kids show.

    Now VR Troopers? That was cool on TV20.

    God damn

    I was about to come in here and post about that and you beat me to it

    Was it a Michigan thing, Canadian TV coming over like Degrassi?

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  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    Heys kids what about reading

    *spins chair around backwards*

    The Bible?

    Yes, Bible Man is a fine Power Rangers knock-off.

    ... wait, what are we talking about?

This discussion has been closed.