[League of Legends] Now with Yasuo 2.0, Sivir 2.0, and Sona 2.0

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    I thought they were done over tuning champs on release.

    They have a financial interest in releasing over tuned champs.

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  • Moridin889Moridin889 Registered User regular
    Ok, I actually looked at the kit

    Her damage is bad, her range is worse

    But she extends CC duration, has a zero cooldown aoe ult and free MS steroid that's up basically always.

    Oh and a PBAOE windwall.

    I think I see the issue.

    RickRudeIvellius
  • MrGrimoireMrGrimoire Pixflare Registered User regular
    credeiki wrote: »
    MrGrimoire wrote: »
    I like Lux in that I can hard peel for my team and hit their back-line at the same time. Does help that Lux is the first champ I ever bought and I've played her on an off since s1. So I'm not in any way biased, either. Her whole kit just does a lot of work when you know how to leverage it.

    I love Lux! She is so strong and provides so much to her team. Being able to double Q people in teamfights feels so good, and yet also having the potential to oneshot the enemy ADC with ult is so nice. And the 40% CDR so you laser once every 25 seconds or so, yes please.

    I use her to get to gold on my smurf account and it's generally quite nice. Obviously into assassins it can be a little scary, but you can crush them pre-6 in lane usually and buy yourself some time to tank up.

    The only countermatchup I really don't like is Xerath, cause he does everything you do a little bit better (but his stuff is harder to land so I don't play him much). Some other mages outscale you as well, but you can come out of the gate strong and have enough of an impact on other lanes by dominating yours and roaming early such that it doesn't matter that later on a different mage can 1v1 you or do more teamfight damage eventually.

    People tend to get salty in all chat that you're beating them with a noob champ too :D

    My go-to build is Luden's into Deathcap. Does make me a bit on the squishy side, but that's a problem positioning and light bindings should take care of. Also means that anyone squishy caught by my bindings is just dead.

    I've usually not gone Dark Seal or Mejais, I feel those make you too much of a target. But considering I usually have double digit kills and assists and very few deaths, I should probably grab it more often.

    credeiki
  • KamiroKamiro Registered User regular
    I've started playing Lux support and the last few games have been great.

    Though the last game the other team had an Evelyn Jungler and she would just straight up assassinate me before I could get a Q off.

    Ivellius
  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    edited September 23
    Watching sneaky play the new champ on a youtube video. I know he's at high elo, so it's surprising to see an enemy mid Annie. I thought she was too simple of a champ for high level play. I guess not.

    Edit then again there's a trynd in this game as well.

    RickRude on
  • Moridin889Moridin889 Registered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    Watching sneaky play the new champ on a youtube video. I know he's at high elo, so it's surprising to see an enemy mid Annie. I thought she was too simple of a champ for high level play. I guess not.

    Edit then again there's a trynd in this game as well.

    Its surprisingly hard to outplay flash tibbers.

    People play all of the champions in all elos. Competitive league is a microcosm meta based on slight percentage advantages. They don't matter in soloqueue.

    IvelliusSprout
  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    Question about the new champ. How does deaths dance work ? Is she always treated as a ranged champion or does she get the melee benefits in melee range?

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    Question about the new champ. How does deaths dance work ? Is she always treated as a ranged champion or does she get the melee benefits in melee range?

    She's melee when she's in melee and ranged when she's at ranged. It changes based on her distance.

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  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    Watching sneaky play the new champ on a youtube video. I know he's at high elo, so it's surprising to see an enemy mid Annie. I thought she was too simple of a champ for high level play. I guess not.

    Edit then again there's a trynd in this game as well.

    One tricks exist at all elos.

    And people who want to climb on whatever is simplest to them exist at all elos.

    desc wrote: »
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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    Watching sneaky play the new champ on a youtube video. I know he's at high elo, so it's surprising to see an enemy mid Annie. I thought she was too simple of a champ for high level play. I guess not.

    Edit then again there's a trynd in this game as well.

    One tricks exist at all elos.

    And people who want to climb on whatever is simplest to them exist at all elos.

    I would argue that the best way to climb is by being a one trick, especially on a champ that is unlikely to get banned.

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  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    edited September 23
    Like, honestly... Annie might not be the flashiest of champions, but she’s got a well-rounded kit. You want damage? Got it. CC/engage? Got it. Easy to play and no complicated mechanics? Got it.

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  • MrGrimoireMrGrimoire Pixflare Registered User regular
    There is a lot to be said for playing a relatively simple champ. Having to pay less attention to your own champion mechanics means you got more to spare for what's going on around you.

    credeikiIvellius
  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    As someone who's played a hundredish games of annie this summer, Annie is very good especially in this meta because so many champs are ultra mobility flashy nightmares and if you Q them, they are getting hit, and they are getting stunned, and then you can wander on up at your leisure and drop tibbers and W them and they are going on a trip to the fountain.

    She doesn't have a bunch of ways to get in range, but she's pretty hard to outplay and in a world where so many champions are designed around outplaying their opponents and having little no no windows of vulnerability unless they make mistakes. I think she's very relevant.

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  • credeikicredeiki Registered User regular
    edited September 23
    MrGrimoire wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    MrGrimoire wrote: »
    I like Lux in that I can hard peel for my team and hit their back-line at the same time. Does help that Lux is the first champ I ever bought and I've played her on an off since s1. So I'm not in any way biased, either. Her whole kit just does a lot of work when you know how to leverage it.

    I love Lux! She is so strong and provides so much to her team. Being able to double Q people in teamfights feels so good, and yet also having the potential to oneshot the enemy ADC with ult is so nice. And the 40% CDR so you laser once every 25 seconds or so, yes please.

    I use her to get to gold on my smurf account and it's generally quite nice. Obviously into assassins it can be a little scary, but you can crush them pre-6 in lane usually and buy yourself some time to tank up.

    The only countermatchup I really don't like is Xerath, cause he does everything you do a little bit better (but his stuff is harder to land so I don't play him much). Some other mages outscale you as well, but you can come out of the gate strong and have enough of an impact on other lanes by dominating yours and roaming early such that it doesn't matter that later on a different mage can 1v1 you or do more teamfight damage eventually.

    People tend to get salty in all chat that you're beating them with a noob champ too :D

    My go-to build is Luden's into Deathcap. Does make me a bit on the squishy side, but that's a problem positioning and light bindings should take care of. Also means that anyone squishy caught by my bindings is just dead.

    I've usually not gone Dark Seal or Mejais, I feel those make you too much of a target. But considering I usually have double digit kills and assists and very few deaths, I should probably grab it more often.

    I always take Luden's first because the cdr is too important and you need to stay up on the damage curve. However depending on what's going on with the enemy team, I will usually look at Morello for healing reduction+flat pen, (or emergency Zhonya's for not dying to Zed or similar). Deathcap will be more of a third item for me (but also might look at void staff first, or a banshee's veil if it feels necessary). Lots of options!

    As for Annie--Annie Bot, who might not stream any more(? haven't checked recently) was in challenger from only playing Annie--she's definitely strong, and I think requires a lot of skill in positioning and macro. You have to understand how to put your cc on the right targets while having really short range and being pretty squishy; you also have to survive lane against something like Lux who can poke you down for 6 levels and even at 6 will only die if you flash+tibbers her. You're also a great roaming midlaner but as with all roaming midlaners you need to balance lane xp soak and your pressure elsewhere.
    Plus, more mechanically complex/harder to execute does not necessarily mean stronger.

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  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    Isn't tear good on her too for double shield? Makes you unkillable .

  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    edited September 23
    I usually just go oblivion orb if nobody is building MR, gets you to true damage on squishies for a long time. Finishing morello is for post-zonyas or deathcap depending on how the game is going because it's so gold inefficient. Unless the other team has enormous healing threats, it's rarely worth finishing a morello early vs getting more burst or safety imo.

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 23
    I have played 3 games on Brahm after randomly getting him in an ARAM and two of the games I got S rankings on.

    Looks like I found a third support to main.

    Four if we include Fiddle.

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  • IvelliusIvellius Registered User regular
    edited September 24
    I have played 3 games on Brahm after randomly getting him in an ARAM and two of the games I got S rankings on.

    we not talking about the third game, huh

    ;)

    Braum is good, though! He's one of my "generalist supports when I don't have something else I feel like I really need to pick for the team" options.

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Ivellius wrote: »
    I have played 3 games on Brahm after randomly getting him in an ARAM and two of the games I got S rankings on.

    we not talking about the third game, huh

    ;)

    Braum is good, though! He's one of my "generalist supports when I don't have something else I feel like I really need to pick for the team" options.

    That was my second game on him!

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    The big advantage Brahm has on other champs is that he very much has a "look you stupid bastard I just saved your life" ability that is very obvious when it does the saving

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Also like, Braum + Samira is fucking nuts. Samira is crazy as shit but Braum enables that shit way too much

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  • credeikicredeiki Registered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    Isn't tear good on her too for double shield? Makes you unkillable .

    I don't think it's a good call to spend time stacking a tear on Lux. You really want to leverage your early strength by crushing your lane and roaming, otherwise you should probably be playing someone with better late scaling; your positioning in fights is very far back, so you should often live anyway; and you have nothing particularly spammable to charge tear with.

    I do stack tear on Orianna when I have the luxury of doing so--sometimes it feels necessary to build a Luden's instead so I have access to more immediate power. But Orianna has a really different power curve--she doesn't have a lot of kill potential early/is not a solokill with 6 champion, whereas Lux absolutely starts fishing for kills around 6, or even earlier depending on what's been happening in lane. Orianna, you can hit every single Q+W in lane and you run out of mana before your opponent runs out of health; it's depressing but you just need to understand that it isn't expected that you be megastrong early, because instead you are SO strong later. Definitely was an adjustment after playing a lot of Lux though.

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  • MrGrimoireMrGrimoire Pixflare Registered User regular
    I feel like if you need the Searph' double shield on Lux, you've already done goofed. You shouldn't be in a situation where you need the extra shield in the first place. And as Credeiki said, you want to be buying AP as soon as possible.

    While I prefer Deathcap as a second item, my general rule of thumb is that if I back after Luden's and have less than NLRod gold, I'll get Oblivion Orb components and finish that up as soon as possible. If I have Rod gold, I get Rod.

  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    edited September 24
    I got an S- rank on Warwick a few days ago and now I can't stop feeding with Warwick. I am extremely sad.

    I've been playing Voli, Skarner, and Warwick. Are Sejuani and Trundle still good in jungle? Also Vi, Shyvana, and Udyr.

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  • MrGrimoireMrGrimoire Pixflare Registered User regular
    Honestly, having bad games is completely fine, because learning how to play when behind, or when things aren't going your way is a really important skill as well. On a lot of champs, what you want to do when ahead, and what you can do when behind are very different things, and learning to leverage your kit in different situations is important.

    Moridin889Ivellius
  • PenumbraPenumbra Registered User regular
    Ivellius wrote: »
    I have played 3 games on Brahm after randomly getting him in an ARAM and two of the games I got S rankings on.

    we not talking about the third game, huh

    ;)

    Braum is good, though! He's one of my "generalist supports when I don't have something else I feel like I really need to pick for the team" options.

    I mostly play ARAM but I’m a support main on the rift. Braum and Thresh are my two general support picks if I’m near the top of the draft.

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  • IvelliusIvellius Registered User regular
    edited September 24
    Stragint wrote: »
    I got an S- rank on Warwick a few days ago and now I can't stop feeding with Warwick. I am extremely sad.

    I've been playing Voli, Skarner, and Warwick. Are Sejuani and Trundle still good in jungle? Also Vi, Shyvana, and Udyr.

    Hey, I have an interest in this.

    Warwick is good but I'm a little clunky on him when I go stretches without playing him (timing on Q lunge and R...which is all the timing he has, really). Probably my favorite thing about him is that he's actually pretty flexible: you can gank well if needed, you can duel many other junglers, and you can focus on objectives because if you have lane priority the drakes are all yours. Not sure if that helps with your problems, but maybe you need to focus on a different area of your game.

    Sejuani is good but team-dependent. Having other melees makes a big difference in her ganks, and she's a good teamfighting tank. Zac and Amumu fill similar roles and are probably a little better, but if you have several melee champs take her. I've finally grieved enough over old Sejuani that I can be somewhat objective about her now, and I do like the champ.

    Trundle is kind of a tankier, less healing Warwick, I think? If you're going against a heavy tank, he's good, and the pillar contributes a lot. I haven't been able to make him work very well in a while, though.

    Vi is pretty good, though I haven't played her enough to figure out optimal build. I think it's mostly damage and punch everyone to death. Shyvana is strong AP but suffers because you can't gank very well, and you have to play every fight around your ultimate. On-hit is still pretty good, too, but you'll probably fall behind because she wants to power-farm, and you're worse at team-fighting than AP version. Udyr is still Udyr. If you know how to play him, he can be great, but dragon souls mean at some point you'll have to fight around objectives, and he's just not as good at that.

    Edit: New roadmap is up. https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/champion-roadmap-september-2020/

    Seraphine has some kind of fandom / starpower theme, and the heavy tank support is Noxian and on-track for end-of-year. (I think it's likely she's one of the characters in Sisterhood of War.) There's going to be a love-crazed jungler skirmisher next year whose design looks fairly Demacian. The next VGU after Mundo is going to be someone who wasn't on the poll but should make people happy (Udyr, maybe?).

    Next year will see another lore character released: candidates I'd note would be Zelos (Irelia's brother who I think is still canon but I can't be bothered to check), Marcus duCouteau (father of Kat and Cassiopeia and patron of Talon), and Rafen (Sarah Fortune's right-hand mate). One of the champs from next year is Bilgewater, so I don't know if that gives us more information or they're the same. I think Ledros will make it into the game eventually but he feels a little new for that.

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  • credeikicredeiki Registered User regular
    MrGrimoire wrote: »
    Honestly, having bad games is completely fine, because learning how to play when behind, or when things aren't going your way is a really important skill as well. On a lot of champs, what you want to do when ahead, and what you can do when behind are very different things, and learning to leverage your kit in different situations is important.

    Let me tell you about how to play 0/5 stun sniper Jhin ;_;

    (I mean actually in a way he feels better to play from behind than other adcs because he has so much utility. Just as long as you're not asked to shoot someone 4 times for 0 damage each ;_; )

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  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    edited September 25
    MrGrimoire wrote: »
    Honestly, having bad games is completely fine, because learning how to play when behind, or when things aren't going your way is a really important skill as well. On a lot of champs, what you want to do when ahead, and what you can do when behind are very different things, and learning to leverage your kit in different situations is important.

    This is definitely something I'm struggling with. I know I'm not gonna improve or get far in ranked without getting this down.
    Ivellius wrote: »
    Stragint wrote: »
    I got an S- rank on Warwick a few days ago and now I can't stop feeding with Warwick. I am extremely sad.

    I've been playing Voli, Skarner, and Warwick. Are Sejuani and Trundle still good in jungle? Also Vi, Shyvana, and Udyr.

    Hey, I have an interest in this.

    Warwick is good but I'm a little clunky on him when I go stretches without playing him (timing on Q lunge and R...which is all the timing he has, really). Probably my favorite thing about him is that he's actually pretty flexible: you can gank well if needed, you can duel many other junglers, and you can focus on objectives because if you have lane priority the drakes are all yours. Not sure if that helps with your problems, but maybe you need to focus on a different area of your game.

    Sejuani is good but team-dependent. Having other melees makes a big difference in her ganks, and she's a good teamfighting tank. Zac and Amumu fill similar roles and are probably a little better, but if you have several melee champs take her. I've finally grieved enough over old Sejuani that I can be somewhat objective about her now, and I do like the champ.

    Trundle is kind of a tankier, less healing Warwick, I think? If you're going against a heavy tank, he's good, and the pillar contributes a lot. I haven't been able to make him work very well in a while, though.

    Vi is pretty good, though I haven't played her enough to figure out optimal build. I think it's mostly damage and punch everyone to death. Shyvana is strong AP but suffers because you can't gank very well, and you have to play every fight around your ultimate. On-hit is still pretty good, too, but you'll probably fall behind because she wants to power-farm, and you're worse at team-fighting than AP version. Udyr is still Udyr. If you know how to play him, he can be great, but dragon souls mean at some point you'll have to fight around objectives, and he's just not as good at that.

    Edit: New roadmap is up. https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/champion-roadmap-september-2020/

    Seraphine has some kind of fandom / starpower theme, and the heavy tank support is Noxian and on-track for end-of-year. (I think it's likely she's one of the characters in Sisterhood of War.) There's going to be a love-crazed jungler skirmisher next year whose design looks fairly Demacian. The next VGU after Mundo is going to be someone who wasn't on the poll but should make people happy (Udyr, maybe?).

    Next year will see another lore character released: candidates I'd note would be Zelos (Irelia's brother who I think is still canon but I can't be bothered to check), Marcus duCouteau (father of Kat and Cassiopeia and patron of Talon), and Rafen (Sarah Fortune's right-hand mate). One of the champs from next year is Bilgewater, so I don't know if that gives us more information or they're the same. I think Ledros will make it into the game eventually but he feels a little new for that.

    Thank you for the break down. I think I'lla void Trundle, Sejuani, and Shyvana for now. Just gonna keep my focus on Warwick, Skarner, Voli, and try out Vi.

    So how do promotions work now? I was at 90 something LP at bronze 1, won a game just now and got promoted to silver 4. Are promo games not a thing anymore?

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  • MrGrimoireMrGrimoire Pixflare Registered User regular
    credeiki wrote: »
    MrGrimoire wrote: »
    Honestly, having bad games is completely fine, because learning how to play when behind, or when things aren't going your way is a really important skill as well. On a lot of champs, what you want to do when ahead, and what you can do when behind are very different things, and learning to leverage your kit in different situations is important.

    Let me tell you about how to play 0/5 stun sniper Jhin ;_;

    (I mean actually in a way he feels better to play from behind than other adcs because he has so much utility. Just as long as you're not asked to shoot someone 4 times for 0 damage each ;_; )

    Yes, I play Jhin like this too! He and Lux are my go-to picks right now, I queue Mid/Bot. But yeah, his ability to facilitate picks from long range is a solid fall-back pattern.
    Stragint wrote: »
    MrGrimoire wrote: »
    Honestly, having bad games is completely fine, because learning how to play when behind, or when things aren't going your way is a really important skill as well. On a lot of champs, what you want to do when ahead, and what you can do when behind are very different things, and learning to leverage your kit in different situations is important.

    This is definitely something I'm struggling with. I know I'm not gonna improve or get far in ranked without getting this down.

    A general rule of thumb is that if you're behind, you use your cc (and health bar) to screen or set up the fed members of your team, so they can tear through enemies. For this reason, champs with hard, reliable CC are much easier to play when behind than, say assassins. I've been playing a shit-ton of Akali the last year. When you're ahead, she's great. When behind, her job is super hard and she's a pain in the ass to play.

  • NiryaNirya Registered User regular
    Did Cait catch a nerf prior to Worlds? I just turned on Groups and saw she went through draft without getting picked or banned, when she was 100% pick/ban during playoffs.

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  • SproutSprout Registered User regular
    edited September 25
    Nirya wrote: »
    Did Cait catch a nerf prior to Worlds? I just turned on Groups and saw she went through draft without getting picked or banned, when she was 100% pick/ban during playoffs.

    10.19: Base AD 64 -> 62, Attack Speed growth 4% -> 3.5%

    10.17: Movement Speed 330 -> 325

    They’re playing Worlds on 10.19.

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  • MrGrimoireMrGrimoire Pixflare Registered User regular
    Yeah, they specifically nerfed her a bit so she wouldn't completely dominate at worlds. Can't say I'm sad to see that, she's not the most interesting champ to watch.

    Ivellius
  • IvelliusIvellius Registered User regular
    Stragint wrote: »
    Thank you for the break down. I think I'lla void Trundle, Sejuani, and Shyvana for now. Just gonna keep my focus on Warwick, Skarner, Voli, and try out Vi.

    So how do promotions work now? I was at 90 something LP at bronze 1, won a game just now and got promoted to silver 4. Are promo games not a thing anymore?

    If your MMR is high enough, you can actually skip promotional series. It's pretty rare. I don't remember any requirements or if any have even been announced.

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  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    If you're still in your placement games, you skip promo games as well.

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  • PenumbraPenumbra Registered User regular
    Oh hey. Worlds started today.

    Well playins; but those count.

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    IvelliusRickRude
  • IvelliusIvellius Registered User regular
    So I'm watching Pianta's new video with Samira and...maybe it's irrational to be this angry, but I can see a number of small mechanics that could be pulled off the kit to make her more comparable to other champs and...I just think why, Riot.*

    ( for the curious)

    On the plus side, I pulled a Psy Ops Samira skin shard, so come Monday I'm going to upgrade that.**

    * If you're reading this, Rioters, take off her passive gap closer, reset on E, and give her ultimate a cooldown. It'll be a start.

    ** This is not an endorsement of the champion; I'm just a completionist.***

    *** After getting that shard, once I unlock Samira I'll have only 8 champions for whom I have no skins. Still relevant: https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/06/10/unbeatable-value

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  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    World's
    Na > Eu !! Na > eu!!

  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    I guess my MMR was high enough to skip the promos since I've finished my placement matches.

    Still feel confident I should be in bronze but I guess I'll see where this goes.

    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
    Ivellius
  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    credeiki wrote: »
    RickRude wrote: »
    Isn't tear good on her too for double shield? Makes you unkillable .

    I don't think it's a good call to spend time stacking a tear on Lux. You really want to leverage your early strength by crushing your lane and roaming, otherwise you should probably be playing someone with better late scaling; your positioning in fights is very far back, so you should often live anyway; and you have nothing particularly spammable to charge tear with.

    I do stack tear on Orianna when I have the luxury of doing so--sometimes it feels necessary to build a Luden's instead so I have access to more immediate power. But Orianna has a really different power curve--she doesn't have a lot of kill potential early/is not a solokill with 6 champion, whereas Lux absolutely starts fishing for kills around 6, or even earlier depending on what's been happening in lane. Orianna, you can hit every single Q+W in lane and you run out of mana before your opponent runs out of health; it's depressing but you just need to understand that it isn't expected that you be megastrong early, because instead you are SO strong later. Definitely was an adjustment after playing a lot of Lux though.

    I think I got her and orianna confused as orianna builds it for the double shield, not lux. And this would be pro play. My mistake

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