I'm considering just doing the streamer strat of quitting if they don't get plenty of resources by 1-2 or 1-3
Like yeah you can scrape by with a tiny amount of bombs and no mobility, but is it worth your time trying now?
I started doing that in Spelunky 1 the moment I was trying for Hell runs. Chances are pretty good I should have started it sooner in 2 than I actually did. Though I think there was also some value in learning the weird hitboxes and hurtboxes and the new timings on traps and shit first, but, like, if you get to NB with 40 bombs, you don't really need to know what the enemies do, you can just fuckin' bomb excavate a route.
Derek Yu has interesting ideas but I'm not entirely sure if he actually knows what fun is. Incidences of fun are a fortunate coincidence
I have a hard time disagreeing with a lot of the complaints that have been mentioned here, but somehow I still have a ton of fun with the game. I dunno, maybe this level of difficulty and the amount of patience this game requires is just perfect for me or something, but I guess everyone finds fun in different things.
0
Options
facetiousa wit so dryit shits sandRegistered Userregular
I mean it's unforgiving but that's what this genre of game is. One of the most common failures when making a piece of art is trying to appeal to too many tastes, sometimes you just have to make something for a target audience. I personally love it, but then I love Super Meat Boy, Binding of Isaac, etc.
"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde
I'm considering just doing the streamer strat of quitting if they don't get plenty of resources by 1-2 or 1-3
Like yeah you can scrape by with a tiny amount of bombs and no mobility, but is it worth your time trying now?
I started doing that in Spelunky 1 the moment I was trying for Hell runs. Chances are pretty good I should have started it sooner in 2 than I actually did. Though I think there was also some value in learning the weird hitboxes and hurtboxes and the new timings on traps and shit first, but, like, if you get to NB with 40 bombs, you don't really need to know what the enemies do, you can just fuckin' bomb excavate a route.
I'm pretty sure the only thing NB enemies do is get killed by their own traps. In fact, I think the only times I've ever so much as taken damage from them involved their charred corpses being catapulted at me at high speed.
Anyway, if you play your cards right, the Dwelling is so healing-rich and the Jungle is so resource-rich that I feel like resetting bad starts is largely pointless. Tons of my best runs involved taking multiple hits in 1-1 like a chump.
Anyway, if you play your cards right, the Dwelling is so healing-rich and the Jungle is so resource-rich that I feel like resetting bad starts is largely pointless. Tons of my best runs involved taking multiple hits in 1-1 like a chump.
I think this is what it's trying to teach you with the horned lizards and the moles, but I find it really hard not to reflexively restart.
I just find the dwellings tedious with escorting the pot and the key on top of the dog with way too high a monster density. A lot of times when I die I stop just because I don't want to play the dwellings again.
I just try to get through the dwelling really quickly, at this point. I'll take stuff with me if I can and don't have to use any resources, but unless I take a few hits and really need to get some health back, the only thing I really care about is the key.
Yes, we hear you loud and clear! You LOVE MOLES and you want to see more of them! MORE MOLES! MORE MOLES!
Just kidding! We know Dwelling is causing players frustration and I think there's some fair criticism there, so we're testing some changes to the spawn rates of enemies and traps, particularly in 1-1 and 1-2. Some tweaks to 1-4 should make it more interesting, as well! Look for those changes to arrive in a patch some time soon.
I will say that, from reading the feedback, I'm getting the impression that some players are trying to kill every enemy they come across in Dwelling, when it's often better to avoid them or, even better, let them kill each other or trigger traps for you! Moles are great for setting off arrow traps, for example. If you're having trouble getting out of the first area, try some new strategies!
Another common complaint is having to wait for the lava during a certain sequence in Volcana (if you've done it, you'll know what I'm talking about). We'll look into this, too, but I can't say if/how it will get addressed. In general, we have to be somewhat careful about how we go about changing the game based on player feedback. Ultimately, Spelunky is a game that is designed to have some sharp edges in it, and there's always the risk of removing fun along with the frustration.
But feel free to keep sharing your thoughts! We want to let you know that it's all being considered.
Also some other stuff in that post, but that seems like the most important part.
Slight increase to the front of the whip hitbox
Slight increase to the stomp hitbox (or make enemy hitboxes a bit bigger)
1 block increase in the aggro range of Skeletons
Slight increase in time before enemies in pots start moving when a pot is broken
Slightly fewer arrow traps. They're not hard it's just tedious setting them all off
Arrow traps can no longer spawn at the same height as the bridges in the dwelling
No iframes for moles
Mole health reduced from 3 to 2
All doors to have the same 'safe zone' around them where enemies cannot spawn that the door at the start of a level gets
Enemies can't be hidden behind the torn cloth/banner things in the dwelling
That thing where you whip a block of bones and somehow randomly take damage from nothing, removed
1-4 to be more random, or to just be a better boss fight
No falling platforms over lava unless the lava can be jumped over normally, or also have a non-destructable platform. Or, make the falling platforms respawn (right now you can just get trapped if you jump over a pit and the platforms fall)
No shops, alters, or lava pools, within 2 blocks of the drill path
Lavamen spawns to be more obvious, no more of them just sniping you out of mid air out of literally nowhere
Lava drips and flows to do high damage instead of instant killing. Only being covered or standing on lava should be instant death
Fix the god dang Rock Dog hit box. I have literally dropped on one that was trapped in a single square and somehow not landed on it
No blocks spawn that can block Van Horsing's arrow
Make it so Van Horsing doesn't just miss sometimes
Whatever that attack that Witch Doctors do that just kinda puts a skull over your head and stuns you. Just remove it.
Give Tipe Pod better contrast. Maybe it's my colourblindness but I legit cannot tell background from foreground at times
Olmec initially floats higher so that if you stand on top of him, you are crushed against the ceiling when he opens up to shoot
Floor under Olmec raised so that you can jump and whip his engines without any items
A few indestructable blocks under Olmec so that you always have somewhere to stand
A thinner second and third layer
Slight increase in time before Olmec falls after his engines are destroyed (so whipping them is more viable)
Make it so you cannot get Qillan if you don't have the tablet (to prevent cheating on the daily)
That thing where you whip a block of bones and somehow randomly take damage from nothing, removed
I know the thing you're talking about and it's super annoying, but it's not nothing. Bone blocks have skulls in them, which fall and do damage (and break) on impact.
I've been playing some Spelunky 1 and somehow I only just now realized that the bomb explosions in 2 are bigger. In both games they can destroy blocks two blocks away, but the explosion in 2 takes more surrounding blocks with it. Not to mention that in 1 you can bomb a wall with a damsel right on the other side and they'll be fine, while it'll kill the damsel in 2.
Slight increase to the front of the whip hitbox
Slight increase to the stomp hitbox (or make enemy hitboxes a bit bigger)
1 block increase in the aggro range of Skeletons
Slight increase in time before enemies in pots start moving when a pot is broken
Slightly fewer arrow traps. They're not hard it's just tedious setting them all off
Arrow traps can no longer spawn at the same height as the bridges in the dwelling
No iframes for moles
Mole health reduced from 3 to 2
All doors to have the same 'safe zone' around them where enemies cannot spawn that the door at the start of a level gets
Enemies can't be hidden behind the torn cloth/banner things in the dwelling
That thing where you whip a block of bones and somehow randomly take damage from nothing, removed
1-4 to be more random, or to just be a better boss fight
No falling platforms over lava unless the lava can be jumped over normally, or also have a non-destructable platform. Or, make the falling platforms respawn (right now you can just get trapped if you jump over a pit and the platforms fall)
No shops, alters, or lava pools, within 2 blocks of the drill path
Lavamen spawns to be more obvious, no more of them just sniping you out of mid air out of literally nowhere
Lava drips and flows to do high damage instead of instant killing. Only being covered or standing on lava should be instant death
Fix the god dang Rock Dog hit box. I have literally dropped on one that was trapped in a single square and somehow not landed on it
No blocks spawn that can block Van Horsing's arrow
Make it so Van Horsing doesn't just miss sometimes
Whatever that attack that Witch Doctors do that just kinda puts a skull over your head and stuns you. Just remove it.
Give Tipe Pod better contrast. Maybe it's my colourblindness but I legit cannot tell background from foreground at times
Olmec initially floats higher so that if you stand on top of him, you are crushed against the ceiling when he opens up to shoot
Floor under Olmec raised so that you can jump and whip his engines without any items
A few indestructable blocks under Olmec so that you always have somewhere to stand
A thinner second and third layer
Slight increase in time before Olmec falls after his engines are destroyed (so whipping them is more viable)
Make it so you cannot get Qillan if you don't have the tablet (to prevent cheating on the daily)
I like these changes and the tide pools thing is definitely your colorblindness. I'd also like bear traps to not be so easily hidden behind stuff. I thing the witchdoctor attack should just break if they lose LOS.
Dice tossed against a laser beam will now bounce back with half the force
This fix needed to happen. Looking forward to trying that.
Challenges will now cancel if the ankh is used
This, on the other hand...
Well, I suppose it's not something a little murder can't fix.
0
Options
facetiousa wit so dryit shits sandRegistered Userregular
edited October 2020
Oh damn that ankh change completely ruins some late game strats.
Edit: not meant as a complaint/critique, they were very obviously exploits, but it's always a tricky thing when deciding what to 'fix' once players have figured out alternative strategies.
facetious on
"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde
Clone Excalibur while it's still in the stone, to get the Broken Sword, and use that on Kingu, allowing you to kill her without getting the crown/hedjut to pull the sword, or using like 20 bombs just to crack her shell
This is a cool achievement, but I also kinda hate that I'll never feel like I've beaten the game unless I pull this off, which I almost certainly never will. 4 hours in a mode where if you just get stunned you'll probably fall to your death since long fall is an instant kill now is just not possible for me. Also, the final secret just being, here's 94 levels made up from the previous levels? I was hoping there would be more behind getting the bow and arrow to the last boss
Clone Excalibur while it's still in the stone, to get the Broken Sword, and use that on Kingu, allowing you to kill her without getting the crown/hedjut to pull the sword, or using like 20 bombs just to crack her shell
This is a cool achievement, but I also kinda hate that I'll never feel like I've beaten the game unless I pull this off, which I almost certainly never will. 4 hours in a mode where if you just get stunned you'll probably fall to your death since long fall is an instant kill now is just not possible for me. Also, the final secret just being, here's 94 levels made up from the previous levels? I was hoping there would be more behind getting the bow and arrow to the last boss
I totally get what you're saying, but I LOVE that the final achievment is staying alive in spelunky for a 100 levels in a row. It feels so perfect to what the game is.
And yes, I too will never achieve it. I'll be lucky if I ever complete it once. But I like having something that only the crazy hardcore players can achieve.
I dunno I don't think Spelunky has ever been about playing for hours and hours in a mode where a single mistake will probably kill you from any health level. That's some fangame BS. If this was just a final challenge in the way the eggplant run was in Spelunky 1 that'd be one thing (where it was just a way to beat the last boss), but they've put the true ending behind this. You can give people a challenge without making beating your game impossible for 99.999% of players.
It's not really the true ending, though. It is An Ending. Just because it's the hardest ending doesn't make it "canon" or whatever. I mean, hell, the canon ending of X-Com Enemy Unknown/Within is that you fail. I'd consider the 7-99 exit more of an Easter egg or homage to roguelikes with an "endless" mode or whatnot.
It's hard to call it the true ending when nothing really happens in it. I'd argue the only ending with any relevance is the regular one. Getting to 7-99 is an extra challenge for the most hardcore of players that I really don't think you need to worry about. Hell, I don't think there's even an achievement in the game beyond 7-5, so it's not necessary for what most people would consider to be completing the game.
Ugh, finally got to Tiamat, but just didn't have the resources to beat her. Only had 8 bombs even though I only used 2 all game, and no gun. I hit her a few times but not enough before I ran out of bombs. Whipping her face didn't seem to do much more than annoy her.
Uh what fills out in the journal from going there? I don't think that particular, uh, "shopkeep" has a journal entry.
The Ghist Shopkeeper absolutely has a journal entry. Under People, should be just before Van Horsing.
I'm not sure if you need to kill it or be killed by it to get the entry, but I don't think so.
OK I beat Tiamat. No paste, had to cook bombs. The kill shot was pretty cool, caught her with a bomb and a ufo at the same time
wait shit fuck now I have to start trying beat Hundun
EDIT - Nuts. Got Qilin to Tiamat but managed to kill myself on the way up. It was another seed light on bombs (1 bag) so I probably couldn't have killed Hundun anyway though.
Posts
I started doing that in Spelunky 1 the moment I was trying for Hell runs. Chances are pretty good I should have started it sooner in 2 than I actually did. Though I think there was also some value in learning the weird hitboxes and hurtboxes and the new timings on traps and shit first, but, like, if you get to NB with 40 bombs, you don't really need to know what the enemies do, you can just fuckin' bomb excavate a route.
Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
Anyway, if you play your cards right, the Dwelling is so healing-rich and the Jungle is so resource-rich that I feel like resetting bad starts is largely pointless. Tons of my best runs involved taking multiple hits in 1-1 like a chump.
I think this is what it's trying to teach you with the horned lizards and the moles, but I find it really hard not to reflexively restart.
Also some other stuff in that post, but that seems like the most important part.
Slight increase to the stomp hitbox (or make enemy hitboxes a bit bigger)
1 block increase in the aggro range of Skeletons
Slight increase in time before enemies in pots start moving when a pot is broken
Slightly fewer arrow traps. They're not hard it's just tedious setting them all off
Arrow traps can no longer spawn at the same height as the bridges in the dwelling
No iframes for moles
Mole health reduced from 3 to 2
All doors to have the same 'safe zone' around them where enemies cannot spawn that the door at the start of a level gets
Enemies can't be hidden behind the torn cloth/banner things in the dwelling
That thing where you whip a block of bones and somehow randomly take damage from nothing, removed
1-4 to be more random, or to just be a better boss fight
No falling platforms over lava unless the lava can be jumped over normally, or also have a non-destructable platform. Or, make the falling platforms respawn (right now you can just get trapped if you jump over a pit and the platforms fall)
No shops, alters, or lava pools, within 2 blocks of the drill path
Lavamen spawns to be more obvious, no more of them just sniping you out of mid air out of literally nowhere
Lava drips and flows to do high damage instead of instant killing. Only being covered or standing on lava should be instant death
Fix the god dang Rock Dog hit box. I have literally dropped on one that was trapped in a single square and somehow not landed on it
No blocks spawn that can block Van Horsing's arrow
Make it so Van Horsing doesn't just miss sometimes
Whatever that attack that Witch Doctors do that just kinda puts a skull over your head and stuns you. Just remove it.
Give Tipe Pod better contrast. Maybe it's my colourblindness but I legit cannot tell background from foreground at times
Olmec initially floats higher so that if you stand on top of him, you are crushed against the ceiling when he opens up to shoot
Floor under Olmec raised so that you can jump and whip his engines without any items
A few indestructable blocks under Olmec so that you always have somewhere to stand
A thinner second and third layer
Slight increase in time before Olmec falls after his engines are destroyed (so whipping them is more viable)
Make it so you cannot get Qillan if you don't have the tablet (to prevent cheating on the daily)
I know the thing you're talking about and it's super annoying, but it's not nothing. Bone blocks have skulls in them, which fall and do damage (and break) on impact.
I've been playing some Spelunky 1 and somehow I only just now realized that the bomb explosions in 2 are bigger. In both games they can destroy blocks two blocks away, but the explosion in 2 takes more surrounding blocks with it. Not to mention that in 1 you can bomb a wall with a damsel right on the other side and they'll be fine, while it'll kill the damsel in 2.
I like these changes and the tide pools thing is definitely your colorblindness. I'd also like bear traps to not be so easily hidden behind stuff. I thing the witchdoctor attack should just break if they lose LOS.
Always Be Sacrificing to Kali.
Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
And a bunch of other minor stuff.
Based entirely on the single run I'm doing right now, there appear to be fewer moles and lizards.
This, on the other hand...
Well, I suppose it's not something a little murder can't fix.
Edit: not meant as a complaint/critique, they were very obviously exploits, but it's always a tricky thing when deciding what to 'fix' once players have figured out alternative strategies.
Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
Oh.
Oh.
Failing any potential future discoveries, it seems that the best uses are to clone pets or clone a gift which you can get by
Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
Cloning the special reward bag on 7-1 is also tremendously great.
This is a cool achievement, but I also kinda hate that I'll never feel like I've beaten the game unless I pull this off, which I almost certainly never will. 4 hours in a mode where if you just get stunned you'll probably fall to your death since long fall is an instant kill now is just not possible for me. Also, the final secret just being, here's 94 levels made up from the previous levels? I was hoping there would be more behind getting the bow and arrow to the last boss
I totally get what you're saying, but I LOVE that the final achievment is staying alive in spelunky for a 100 levels in a row. It feels so perfect to what the game is.
And yes, I too will never achieve it. I'll be lucky if I ever complete it once. But I like having something that only the crazy hardcore players can achieve.
The entire quest line of getting the bow and arrow to the last boss leads to nothing else but this, how can it not be considered the true ending.
I mean, Plato's cave only had what, 3 levels?
https://clips.twitch.tv/PoliteSilkyBobaFUNgineer
I'm not sure if you need to kill it or be killed by it to get the entry, but I don't think so.
On an unrelated note, I beat Olmec for the first time whooo!
wait shit fuck now I have to start trying beat Hundun
EDIT - Nuts. Got Qilin to Tiamat but managed to kill myself on the way up. It was another seed light on bombs (1 bag) so I probably couldn't have killed Hundun anyway though.
https://www.twitch.tv/grandpoobear/clip/ShortSparklyTireDoubleRainbow?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time