it's not if the death is the impetus at all, it's if the impetus is because of their relationship to the character. specifically romantic in nature.
like if a game were about margaret thatcher being assassinated and her bodyguard goes on a killing spree to get the culprits, you wouldn't have fridged margaret thatcher. it would be a story about a political assassination.
Granted
Corvo and Jessamine were romantically involved, but he's not avenging her death he's trying to restore the government
it's not if the death is the impetus at all, it's if the impetus is because of their relationship to the character. specifically romantic in nature.
like if a game were about margaret thatcher being assassinated and her bodyguard goes on a killing spree to get the culprits, you wouldn't have fridged margaret thatcher. it would be a story about a political assassination.
watching margaret thatcher die would rule, also
yeah i guess to be clear she was the first famous lady political leader that popped into my head, and you would clearly be the villain in that scenario.
it's not if the death is the impetus at all, it's if the impetus is because of their relationship to the character. specifically romantic in nature.
like if a game were about margaret thatcher being assassinated and her bodyguard goes on a killing spree to get the culprits, you wouldn't have fridged margaret thatcher. it would be a story about a political assassination.
watching margaret thatcher die would rule, also
too bad, too bad
+1
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BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
it's not if the death is the impetus at all, it's if the impetus is because of their relationship to the character. specifically romantic in nature.
like if a game were about margaret thatcher being assassinated and her bodyguard goes on a killing spree to get the culprits, you wouldn't have fridged margaret thatcher. it would be a story about a political assassination.
That isn't the impetus for the male character to kick ass though,
overthrowing the government is.
If you gender swap Jessamine the entire plot is exactly the same.
Eh, that really isn't relevant.
The complaint about "fridging" isn't that it's some sort of forbidden thing that should never be done. In the case of a supporting female character being killed off to feed into the plot of a male lead: Supporting characters always exist to feed into the plot of the main character. That's literally the reason they exist. The reason it gets brought up is that it happens much, much more frequently to women, and it's important to be aware of that.
Women in Refrigerators (or WiR) is a website created in 1999 by a group of feminist comic-book fans that lists examples of the superhero comic-book trope whereby female characters are injured, raped, killed, or depowered (an event colloquially known as fridging), sometimes to stimulate "protective" traits, and often as a plot device intended to move a male character's story arc forward, and seeks to analyze why these plot devices are used disproportionately on female characters.
Undead Scottsman on
+3
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
edited October 2020
what happens in dishonored is not a "fridging"
firstly, the term was coined (by then-blogger turned now-comics writer Gail Simone, creator of Birds of Prey) specifically referring to characters in comics, and it had to do with preexisting female characters - long-running members of the cast - being diminished, de-powered, or killed (death was just one possibility, because "you can't kill female characters" wasn't the point) to provide a cheap hit of "motivation" for the main character to do the thing he ought to be doing anyway, in a superhero story - fighting the bad guys.
gail was not drawing some insane categorical line in the sand where thou shalt never have a female character die. It was about cheapness, and the ugliness of 90s comics in general, and how female characters bore a lot of the brunt of that ugliness.
Edit: like the original literal fridging was a horrible, gross, graphic death recounted in a comic that had no mature audiences label and was sold on spinner racks, back when that was a thing. Some kid could have picked it up. It was sensationalist and gross and cruel, and it was unfortunately kind of par for the course at the time. And that was part of the critique.
She is not saying "your story about the grieving widower is bad because it began with his wife being FRIDGED by breast cancer" and she is not saying "you cannot begin a story with someone's wife or lover being killed by the bad guy." That's the kind of full-bore insanity that only the internet can bring to the table, god bless
(source: i literally used to post on a forum and play video games with her 20 years ago. i was around for the very first version of this conversation)
Jacobkosh on
+20
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BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
what if you assassinated margaret thatcher by dropping a fridge on her
she is not saying "you cannot begin a story with someone's wife or lover being killed by the bad guy."
i learned of it by watching feminist frequency and they specifically called out this exact situation so i'm guessing it's gonna have to be open to at least a certain level of personal interpretation at this point. admittedly, i don't recall them mentioning the 90's comic genesis of it so maybe they just did a bad job
and i don't think ANY of it is saying you can't do it; just that it's something to be aware of before you decide to put it in your plot line.
Magic Pink on
0
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Explore the myths and monsters of Europe’s last primeval wilderness. Play as Maia, who arrives at the ancient Białowieża Forest looking to explore her family history. Discover Rage in an adventure game inspired by the experience of the legendary tabletop roleplaying game Werewolf: The Apocalypse.
20201013 Werewolf: The Apocalypse - Heart of the Forest (visual novel, narrative, werewolves, horror)
It amazes me that this both came out of nowhere and still looks worlds better than the 'action RPG' that's been in all kinds of production hell for years and has nothing to show for it but a very bad janky action trailer.
0
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
Explore the myths and monsters of Europe’s last primeval wilderness. Play as Maia, who arrives at the ancient Białowieża Forest looking to explore her family history. Discover Rage in an adventure game inspired by the experience of the legendary tabletop roleplaying game Werewolf: The Apocalypse.
20201013 Werewolf: The Apocalypse - Heart of the Forest (visual novel, narrative, werewolves, horror)
It amazes me that this both came out of nowhere and still looks worlds better than the 'action RPG' that's been in all kinds of production hell for years and has nothing to show for it but a very bad janky action trailer.
I think it's because a brawler is honestly a pretty bad idea for a werewolf game.
+3
Options
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Explore the myths and monsters of Europe’s last primeval wilderness. Play as Maia, who arrives at the ancient Białowieża Forest looking to explore her family history. Discover Rage in an adventure game inspired by the experience of the legendary tabletop roleplaying game Werewolf: The Apocalypse.
20201013 Werewolf: The Apocalypse - Heart of the Forest (visual novel, narrative, werewolves, horror)
It amazes me that this both came out of nowhere and still looks worlds better than the 'action RPG' that's been in all kinds of production hell for years and has nothing to show for it but a very bad janky action trailer.
I think it's because a brawler is honestly a pretty bad idea for a werewolf game.
I wonder if this was in the works before Shadows/Coteries, because it seems similar but with a lot more depth to it.
I think an action RPG could work for Werewolf, but not the way they're doing it. Maybe if it was more investigative with spurts of optional action, like Deus Ex.
Changeling would have to be straight survival horror.
0
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
she is not saying "you cannot begin a story with someone's wife or lover being killed by the bad guy."
i learned of it by watching feminist frequency and they specifically called out this exact situation so i'm guessing it's gonna have to be open to at least a certain level of personal interpretation at this point. admittedly, i don't recall them mentioning the 90's comic genesis of it so maybe they just did a bad job
I think it's very likely that feminist frequency presented a (perhaps overly) simplified version of the argument sans some important context, because that's just how the internet do.
online discourse has a way of denuding things of meaning and nuance and usefulness, leaving a naked howling void behind in its wake, and critical terms-of-art which were created to meet specific criteria and clearly define something that didn't have a word for it before often get the worst of this. "mary sue," for instance, which was something specific to fanfic circles (and made sense and was useful there: it refers to a direct author self-insert, which of course is a problem in fanfic) but escaped into the wider world and became a nonsense epithet in the mouths of youtube chuds
Explore the myths and monsters of Europe’s last primeval wilderness. Play as Maia, who arrives at the ancient Białowieża Forest looking to explore her family history. Discover Rage in an adventure game inspired by the experience of the legendary tabletop roleplaying game Werewolf: The Apocalypse.
20201013 Werewolf: The Apocalypse - Heart of the Forest (visual novel, narrative, werewolves, horror)
It amazes me that this both came out of nowhere and still looks worlds better than the 'action RPG' that's been in all kinds of production hell for years and has nothing to show for it but a very bad janky action trailer.
I played the demo and it sold me on the game enough to have just picked it up on GoG, so.
(I'm kind of half-looking forward to the action game also, but since the game is being developed by Cyanide Studios it being janky and promising-but-not-great is a given. They're like Bethesda, after a while you know what you're getting)
she is not saying "you cannot begin a story with someone's wife or lover being killed by the bad guy."
i learned of it by watching feminist frequency and they specifically called out this exact situation so i'm guessing it's gonna have to be open to at least a certain level of personal interpretation at this point. admittedly, i don't recall them mentioning the 90's comic genesis of it so maybe they just did a bad job
I think it's very likely that feminist frequency presented a (perhaps overly) simplified version of the argument sans some important context, because that's just how the internet do.
online discourse has a way of denuding things of meaning and nuance and usefulness, leaving a naked howling void behind in its wake, and critical terms-of-art which were created to meet specific criteria and clearly define something that didn't have a word for it before often get the worst of this. "mary sue," for instance, which was something specific to fanfic circles (and made sense and was useful there: it refers to a direct author self-insert, which of course is a problem in fanfic) but escaped into the wider world and became a nonsense epithet in the mouths of youtube chuds
They were also using it in reference to video games specifically and I'm guessing then must have used that same term for this similar, but different, situation
0
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Explore the myths and monsters of Europe’s last primeval wilderness. Play as Maia, who arrives at the ancient Białowieża Forest looking to explore her family history. Discover Rage in an adventure game inspired by the experience of the legendary tabletop roleplaying game Werewolf: The Apocalypse.
20201013 Werewolf: The Apocalypse - Heart of the Forest (visual novel, narrative, werewolves, horror)
It amazes me that this both came out of nowhere and still looks worlds better than the 'action RPG' that's been in all kinds of production hell for years and has nothing to show for it but a very bad janky action trailer.
I played the demo and it sold me on the game enough to have just picked it up on GoG, so.
(I'm kind of half-looking forward to the action game also, but since the game is being developed by Cyanide Studios it being janky and promising-but-not-great is a given. They're like Bethesda, after a while you know what you're getting)
It kind of sucks, the original premise sounded great, then they shied away from it and more towards an action game.
0
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
Explore the myths and monsters of Europe’s last primeval wilderness. Play as Maia, who arrives at the ancient Białowieża Forest looking to explore her family history. Discover Rage in an adventure game inspired by the experience of the legendary tabletop roleplaying game Werewolf: The Apocalypse.
20201013 Werewolf: The Apocalypse - Heart of the Forest (visual novel, narrative, werewolves, horror)
It amazes me that this both came out of nowhere and still looks worlds better than the 'action RPG' that's been in all kinds of production hell for years and has nothing to show for it but a very bad janky action trailer.
I played the demo and it sold me on the game enough to have just picked it up on GoG, so.
(I'm kind of half-looking forward to the action game also, but since the game is being developed by Cyanide Studios it being janky and promising-but-not-great is a given. They're like Bethesda, after a while you know what you're getting)
It kind of sucks, the original premise sounded great, then they shied away from it and more towards an action game.
that just makes me want to replay the werewolf chase from bloodlines
Explore the myths and monsters of Europe’s last primeval wilderness. Play as Maia, who arrives at the ancient Białowieża Forest looking to explore her family history. Discover Rage in an adventure game inspired by the experience of the legendary tabletop roleplaying game Werewolf: The Apocalypse.
20201013 Werewolf: The Apocalypse - Heart of the Forest (visual novel, narrative, werewolves, horror)
It amazes me that this both came out of nowhere and still looks worlds better than the 'action RPG' that's been in all kinds of production hell for years and has nothing to show for it but a very bad janky action trailer.
I played the demo and it sold me on the game enough to have just picked it up on GoG, so.
(I'm kind of half-looking forward to the action game also, but since the game is being developed by Cyanide Studios it being janky and promising-but-not-great is a given. They're like Bethesda, after a while you know what you're getting)
It kind of sucks, the original premise sounded great, then they shied away from it and more towards an action game.
All the World of Darkness settings are cool as punch, I just wish non-Vampire ones got nearly as much love as that one.
+2
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
Explore the myths and monsters of Europe’s last primeval wilderness. Play as Maia, who arrives at the ancient Białowieża Forest looking to explore her family history. Discover Rage in an adventure game inspired by the experience of the legendary tabletop roleplaying game Werewolf: The Apocalypse.
20201013 Werewolf: The Apocalypse - Heart of the Forest (visual novel, narrative, werewolves, horror)
It amazes me that this both came out of nowhere and still looks worlds better than the 'action RPG' that's been in all kinds of production hell for years and has nothing to show for it but a very bad janky action trailer.
I think it's because a brawler is honestly a pretty bad idea for a werewolf game.
wait, why is that? I've never played a werewolf game but from what i know of the setting a brawler sounded like a good idea in principle
like I heard it and went "hmm that sounds like it fits". does it not?
0
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Explore the myths and monsters of Europe’s last primeval wilderness. Play as Maia, who arrives at the ancient Białowieża Forest looking to explore her family history. Discover Rage in an adventure game inspired by the experience of the legendary tabletop roleplaying game Werewolf: The Apocalypse.
20201013 Werewolf: The Apocalypse - Heart of the Forest (visual novel, narrative, werewolves, horror)
It amazes me that this both came out of nowhere and still looks worlds better than the 'action RPG' that's been in all kinds of production hell for years and has nothing to show for it but a very bad janky action trailer.
I played the demo and it sold me on the game enough to have just picked it up on GoG, so.
(I'm kind of half-looking forward to the action game also, but since the game is being developed by Cyanide Studios it being janky and promising-but-not-great is a given. They're like Bethesda, after a while you know what you're getting)
It kind of sucks, the original premise sounded great, then they shied away from it and more towards an action game.
All the World of Darkness settings are cool as punch, I just wish non-Vampire ones got nearly as much love as that one.
I think I got you the sourcebook ages ago, didn't I? Or was that someone else, it's been years...
Wonder if they got any use out of it.
I'm terrible at playing Werewolf, but I love the setting.
it's not if the death is the impetus at all, it's if the impetus is because of their relationship to the character. specifically romantic in nature.
like if a game were about margaret thatcher being assassinated and her bodyguard goes on a killing spree to get the culprits, you wouldn't have fridged margaret thatcher. it would be a story about a political assassination.
Explore the myths and monsters of Europe’s last primeval wilderness. Play as Maia, who arrives at the ancient Białowieża Forest looking to explore her family history. Discover Rage in an adventure game inspired by the experience of the legendary tabletop roleplaying game Werewolf: The Apocalypse.
20201013 Werewolf: The Apocalypse - Heart of the Forest (visual novel, narrative, werewolves, horror)
It amazes me that this both came out of nowhere and still looks worlds better than the 'action RPG' that's been in all kinds of production hell for years and has nothing to show for it but a very bad janky action trailer.
I think it's because a brawler is honestly a pretty bad idea for a werewolf game.
wait, why is that? I've never played a werewolf game but from what i know of the setting a brawler sounded like a good idea in principle
like I heard it and went "hmm that sounds like it fits". does it not?
A lot of Werewolf players and fans get annoyed when people primarily focus on the action elements of Werewolf. It had an unfair reputation as being the low-brow, meat-grindy WoD game.
Undead Scottsman on
0
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Explore the myths and monsters of Europe’s last primeval wilderness. Play as Maia, who arrives at the ancient Białowieża Forest looking to explore her family history. Discover Rage in an adventure game inspired by the experience of the legendary tabletop roleplaying game Werewolf: The Apocalypse.
20201013 Werewolf: The Apocalypse - Heart of the Forest (visual novel, narrative, werewolves, horror)
It amazes me that this both came out of nowhere and still looks worlds better than the 'action RPG' that's been in all kinds of production hell for years and has nothing to show for it but a very bad janky action trailer.
I think it's because a brawler is honestly a pretty bad idea for a werewolf game.
wait, why is that? I've never played a werewolf game but from what i know of the setting a brawler sounded like a good idea in principle
like I heard it and went "hmm that sounds like it fits". does it not?
The Apocalypse is very much a social game. To play it as RAWR GAROU SMASH completely misses the point of the theme and setting.
It's like what outsiders think werewolves are versus what they're actually like.
Explore the myths and monsters of Europe’s last primeval wilderness. Play as Maia, who arrives at the ancient Białowieża Forest looking to explore her family history. Discover Rage in an adventure game inspired by the experience of the legendary tabletop roleplaying game Werewolf: The Apocalypse.
20201013 Werewolf: The Apocalypse - Heart of the Forest (visual novel, narrative, werewolves, horror)
It amazes me that this both came out of nowhere and still looks worlds better than the 'action RPG' that's been in all kinds of production hell for years and has nothing to show for it but a very bad janky action trailer.
I think it's because a brawler is honestly a pretty bad idea for a werewolf game.
wait, why is that? I've never played a werewolf game but from what i know of the setting a brawler sounded like a good idea in principle
like I heard it and went "hmm that sounds like it fits". does it not?
The Apocalypse is very much a social game. To play it as RAWR GAROU SMASH completely misses the point of the theme and setting.
It's like what outsiders think werewolves are versus what they're actually like.
i hate to break this to you cj but werewolves aren't actually like anything because they are not real
Explore the myths and monsters of Europe’s last primeval wilderness. Play as Maia, who arrives at the ancient Białowieża Forest looking to explore her family history. Discover Rage in an adventure game inspired by the experience of the legendary tabletop roleplaying game Werewolf: The Apocalypse.
20201013 Werewolf: The Apocalypse - Heart of the Forest (visual novel, narrative, werewolves, horror)
It amazes me that this both came out of nowhere and still looks worlds better than the 'action RPG' that's been in all kinds of production hell for years and has nothing to show for it but a very bad janky action trailer.
I think it's because a brawler is honestly a pretty bad idea for a werewolf game.
wait, why is that? I've never played a werewolf game but from what i know of the setting a brawler sounded like a good idea in principle
like I heard it and went "hmm that sounds like it fits". does it not?
The Apocalypse is very much a social game. To play it as RAWR GAROU SMASH completely misses the point of the theme and setting.
It's like what outsiders think werewolves are versus what they're actually like.
there's plenty of garou that rawr smash and plenty of black spiral dancers to rawr smash anway. it fits just fine. yes it's leaving out some other bits but so what
i'd love a wraith action rpg with you go labyrinth diving
Explore the myths and monsters of Europe’s last primeval wilderness. Play as Maia, who arrives at the ancient Białowieża Forest looking to explore her family history. Discover Rage in an adventure game inspired by the experience of the legendary tabletop roleplaying game Werewolf: The Apocalypse.
20201013 Werewolf: The Apocalypse - Heart of the Forest (visual novel, narrative, werewolves, horror)
It amazes me that this both came out of nowhere and still looks worlds better than the 'action RPG' that's been in all kinds of production hell for years and has nothing to show for it but a very bad janky action trailer.
I think it's because a brawler is honestly a pretty bad idea for a werewolf game.
wait, why is that? I've never played a werewolf game but from what i know of the setting a brawler sounded like a good idea in principle
like I heard it and went "hmm that sounds like it fits". does it not?
The Apocalypse is very much a social game. To play it as RAWR GAROU SMASH completely misses the point of the theme and setting.
It's like what outsiders think werewolves are versus what they're actually like.
i hate to break this to you cj but werewolves aren't actually like anything because they are not real
Good thing we're talking about how they are in a particular bit of fiction!
0
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Explore the myths and monsters of Europe’s last primeval wilderness. Play as Maia, who arrives at the ancient Białowieża Forest looking to explore her family history. Discover Rage in an adventure game inspired by the experience of the legendary tabletop roleplaying game Werewolf: The Apocalypse.
20201013 Werewolf: The Apocalypse - Heart of the Forest (visual novel, narrative, werewolves, horror)
It amazes me that this both came out of nowhere and still looks worlds better than the 'action RPG' that's been in all kinds of production hell for years and has nothing to show for it but a very bad janky action trailer.
I think it's because a brawler is honestly a pretty bad idea for a werewolf game.
wait, why is that? I've never played a werewolf game but from what i know of the setting a brawler sounded like a good idea in principle
like I heard it and went "hmm that sounds like it fits". does it not?
The Apocalypse is very much a social game. To play it as RAWR GAROU SMASH completely misses the point of the theme and setting.
It's like what outsiders think werewolves are versus what they're actually like.
there's plenty of garou that rawr smash and plenty of black spiral dancers to rawr smash anway. it fits just fine. yes it's leaving out some other bits but so what
i'd love a wraith action rpg with you go labyrinth diving
Even if you bring the black spiral dancers in, it'd be far more interesting to interact with them narratively(see: the Asylum twins in Bloodlines) instead of just smashing them up.
Explore the myths and monsters of Europe’s last primeval wilderness. Play as Maia, who arrives at the ancient Białowieża Forest looking to explore her family history. Discover Rage in an adventure game inspired by the experience of the legendary tabletop roleplaying game Werewolf: The Apocalypse.
20201013 Werewolf: The Apocalypse - Heart of the Forest (visual novel, narrative, werewolves, horror)
It amazes me that this both came out of nowhere and still looks worlds better than the 'action RPG' that's been in all kinds of production hell for years and has nothing to show for it but a very bad janky action trailer.
I think it's because a brawler is honestly a pretty bad idea for a werewolf game.
wait, why is that? I've never played a werewolf game but from what i know of the setting a brawler sounded like a good idea in principle
like I heard it and went "hmm that sounds like it fits". does it not?
The Apocalypse is very much a social game. To play it as RAWR GAROU SMASH completely misses the point of the theme and setting.
It's like what outsiders think werewolves are versus what they're actually like.
there's plenty of garou that rawr smash and plenty of black spiral dancers to rawr smash anway. it fits just fine. yes it's leaving out some other bits but so what
i'd love a wraith action rpg with you go labyrinth diving
Even if you bring the black spiral dancers in, it'd be far more interesting to interact with them narratively(see: the Asylum twins in Bloodlines) instead of just smashing them up.
nah i just wanna smash them up. all our werewolf games were very much combat based and it was real fun
0
Options
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Explore the myths and monsters of Europe’s last primeval wilderness. Play as Maia, who arrives at the ancient Białowieża Forest looking to explore her family history. Discover Rage in an adventure game inspired by the experience of the legendary tabletop roleplaying game Werewolf: The Apocalypse.
20201013 Werewolf: The Apocalypse - Heart of the Forest (visual novel, narrative, werewolves, horror)
It amazes me that this both came out of nowhere and still looks worlds better than the 'action RPG' that's been in all kinds of production hell for years and has nothing to show for it but a very bad janky action trailer.
I think it's because a brawler is honestly a pretty bad idea for a werewolf game.
wait, why is that? I've never played a werewolf game but from what i know of the setting a brawler sounded like a good idea in principle
like I heard it and went "hmm that sounds like it fits". does it not?
The Apocalypse is very much a social game. To play it as RAWR GAROU SMASH completely misses the point of the theme and setting.
It's like what outsiders think werewolves are versus what they're actually like.
there's plenty of garou that rawr smash and plenty of black spiral dancers to rawr smash anway. it fits just fine. yes it's leaving out some other bits but so what
i'd love a wraith action rpg with you go labyrinth diving
Even if you bring the black spiral dancers in, it'd be far more interesting to interact with them narratively(see: the Asylum twins in Bloodlines) instead of just smashing them up.
nah i just wanna smash them up. all our werewolf games were very much combat based and it was real fun
Well, Earthblood is just the thing for you, if it ever comes out. :P
Explore the myths and monsters of Europe’s last primeval wilderness. Play as Maia, who arrives at the ancient Białowieża Forest looking to explore her family history. Discover Rage in an adventure game inspired by the experience of the legendary tabletop roleplaying game Werewolf: The Apocalypse.
20201013 Werewolf: The Apocalypse - Heart of the Forest (visual novel, narrative, werewolves, horror)
It amazes me that this both came out of nowhere and still looks worlds better than the 'action RPG' that's been in all kinds of production hell for years and has nothing to show for it but a very bad janky action trailer.
I think it's because a brawler is honestly a pretty bad idea for a werewolf game.
wait, why is that? I've never played a werewolf game but from what i know of the setting a brawler sounded like a good idea in principle
like I heard it and went "hmm that sounds like it fits". does it not?
The Apocalypse is very much a social game. To play it as RAWR GAROU SMASH completely misses the point of the theme and setting.
It's like what outsiders think werewolves are versus what they're actually like.
there's plenty of garou that rawr smash and plenty of black spiral dancers to rawr smash anway. it fits just fine. yes it's leaving out some other bits but so what
i'd love a wraith action rpg with you go labyrinth diving
Even if you bring the black spiral dancers in, it'd be far more interesting to interact with them narratively(see: the Asylum twins in Bloodlines) instead of just smashing them up.
nah i just wanna smash them up. all our werewolf games were very much combat based and it was real fun
Well, Earthblood is just the thing for you, if it ever comes out. :P
FishmanPut your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain.Registered Userregular
SE++ BATTLETECH Jamestown system
Now possessed of a shiny new Marauder, we quickly equip it with an array of shiny wepons what go "Boom". It is now capable of raining death and destruction from almost anywhere, dropping hot fire from range or sweeping forward and carving through mechs like an angry stompy carnosaur of legend.
I have decided to call it Smof.
The trusty Enforcer that has been the core of our lance since the start of our career also needs some work. It has been getting too beat up, losing too much armour and not able to bring the kind of threat it really needs to have to combat. With the Marauder now relieving it of some of the offensive burden, we downgrade the Enforcer's AC10 to an AC5 and then use the space gained to load up with more armour, better heat management, and add an additional MLas to make up for the loss of damage. This mech is now has more armour, greater longevity through greater ammo capacity, and enough cooling to jump and alpha strike multiple turns in a row, turning it into a dangerously capable skirmisher and flanker. As the long-time mainstay of our line up since we started this career, we give it recognition for its service and continued contribution by also giving it the moniker @milski.
Jamestown, like Camadeirre, is part of the ongoing contest between the Taurian Concordat and the FedSuns, so our stay here once again sees us attempting to profit through taking work from both sides.
Nice planet. What do we blow up first?
The strategy largely works. We roll in, exchange a few blows with whatever opposition, but the Smof/@milski/@Munkus Beaver trio is now tuned and well balanced to work with either the Jenner or Firestarter as a forward scout. Every mission goes roughly to plan, all our Mechs stay upright and functional, and none of our pilots get shot or injured. It is, by any salient measure, a reasonably successful tour. When we leave Jamestown, it is with all of our Mechs intact, a full compliment of pilots, and a bank balance roughly the same as when we arrived.
This is because Jamestown is the location of an SLDF outpost, so we channelled all of our earnings into lostech parts. So in addition to a full compliment of Mechs and pilots, we also leave with a mech bay filled with ER lasers, Pulse lasers, and a rare Double Heat Sink some mad bastard was flogging on the parts market.
Going to make my Mechs glow with so many lasers OpFor will think they're being attacked by disco.
Posts
Granted
yeah i guess to be clear she was the first famous lady political leader that popped into my head, and you would clearly be the villain in that scenario.
Sure but men don't have the same issue in the way they're portrayed in media that women do.
too bad, too bad
what a shame
Eh, that really isn't relevant.
The complaint about "fridging" isn't that it's some sort of forbidden thing that should never be done. In the case of a supporting female character being killed off to feed into the plot of a male lead: Supporting characters always exist to feed into the plot of the main character. That's literally the reason they exist. The reason it gets brought up is that it happens much, much more frequently to women, and it's important to be aware of that.
firstly, the term was coined (by then-blogger turned now-comics writer Gail Simone, creator of Birds of Prey) specifically referring to characters in comics, and it had to do with preexisting female characters - long-running members of the cast - being diminished, de-powered, or killed (death was just one possibility, because "you can't kill female characters" wasn't the point) to provide a cheap hit of "motivation" for the main character to do the thing he ought to be doing anyway, in a superhero story - fighting the bad guys.
gail was not drawing some insane categorical line in the sand where thou shalt never have a female character die. It was about cheapness, and the ugliness of 90s comics in general, and how female characters bore a lot of the brunt of that ugliness.
Edit: like the original literal fridging was a horrible, gross, graphic death recounted in a comic that had no mature audiences label and was sold on spinner racks, back when that was a thing. Some kid could have picked it up. It was sensationalist and gross and cruel, and it was unfortunately kind of par for the course at the time. And that was part of the critique.
She is not saying "your story about the grieving widower is bad because it began with his wife being FRIDGED by breast cancer" and she is not saying "you cannot begin a story with someone's wife or lover being killed by the bad guy." That's the kind of full-bore insanity that only the internet can bring to the table, god bless
(source: i literally used to post on a forum and play video games with her 20 years ago. i was around for the very first version of this conversation)
i learned of it by watching feminist frequency and they specifically called out this exact situation so i'm guessing it's gonna have to be open to at least a certain level of personal interpretation at this point. admittedly, i don't recall them mentioning the 90's comic genesis of it so maybe they just did a bad job
and i don't think ANY of it is saying you can't do it; just that it's something to be aware of before you decide to put it in your plot line.
It amazes me that this both came out of nowhere and still looks worlds better than the 'action RPG' that's been in all kinds of production hell for years and has nothing to show for it but a very bad janky action trailer.
fuck that would rule
I think it's because a brawler is honestly a pretty bad idea for a werewolf game.
I wonder if this was in the works before Shadows/Coteries, because it seems similar but with a lot more depth to it.
I think an action RPG could work for Werewolf, but not the way they're doing it. Maybe if it was more investigative with spurts of optional action, like Deus Ex.
Changeling would have to be straight survival horror.
I think it's very likely that feminist frequency presented a (perhaps overly) simplified version of the argument sans some important context, because that's just how the internet do.
online discourse has a way of denuding things of meaning and nuance and usefulness, leaving a naked howling void behind in its wake, and critical terms-of-art which were created to meet specific criteria and clearly define something that didn't have a word for it before often get the worst of this. "mary sue," for instance, which was something specific to fanfic circles (and made sense and was useful there: it refers to a direct author self-insert, which of course is a problem in fanfic) but escaped into the wider world and became a nonsense epithet in the mouths of youtube chuds
(I'm kind of half-looking forward to the action game also, but since the game is being developed by Cyanide Studios it being janky and promising-but-not-great is a given. They're like Bethesda, after a while you know what you're getting)
They were also using it in reference to video games specifically and I'm guessing then must have used that same term for this similar, but different, situation
It kind of sucks, the original premise sounded great, then they shied away from it and more towards an action game.
that just makes me want to replay the werewolf chase from bloodlines
wait, why is that? I've never played a werewolf game but from what i know of the setting a brawler sounded like a good idea in principle
like I heard it and went "hmm that sounds like it fits". does it not?
I think I got you the sourcebook ages ago, didn't I? Or was that someone else, it's been years...
Wonder if they got any use out of it.
I'm terrible at playing Werewolf, but I love the setting.
At least we have this to enjoy
A lot of Werewolf players and fans get annoyed when people primarily focus on the action elements of Werewolf. It had an unfair reputation as being the low-brow, meat-grindy WoD game.
The Apocalypse is very much a social game. To play it as RAWR GAROU SMASH completely misses the point of the theme and setting.
It's like what outsiders think werewolves are versus what they're actually like.
i hate to break this to you cj but werewolves aren't actually like anything because they are not real
there's plenty of garou that rawr smash and plenty of black spiral dancers to rawr smash anway. it fits just fine. yes it's leaving out some other bits but so what
i'd love a wraith action rpg with you go labyrinth diving
Good thing we're talking about how they are in a particular bit of fiction!
Even if you bring the black spiral dancers in, it'd be far more interesting to interact with them narratively(see: the Asylum twins in Bloodlines) instead of just smashing them up.
nah i just wanna smash them up. all our werewolf games were very much combat based and it was real fun
Well, Earthblood is just the thing for you, if it ever comes out. :P
I'M ON IT
now there's a man who would abduct a state governor
i will admit to being the guy that liked Hunter The Reckoning :redface:
it played like shit, but it was at least fun as a party game
i, uh....
i played it by myself
Jamestown system
Now possessed of a shiny new Marauder, we quickly equip it with an array of shiny wepons what go "Boom". It is now capable of raining death and destruction from almost anywhere, dropping hot fire from range or sweeping forward and carving through mechs like an angry stompy carnosaur of legend.
I have decided to call it Smof.
The trusty Enforcer that has been the core of our lance since the start of our career also needs some work. It has been getting too beat up, losing too much armour and not able to bring the kind of threat it really needs to have to combat. With the Marauder now relieving it of some of the offensive burden, we downgrade the Enforcer's AC10 to an AC5 and then use the space gained to load up with more armour, better heat management, and add an additional MLas to make up for the loss of damage. This mech is now has more armour, greater longevity through greater ammo capacity, and enough cooling to jump and alpha strike multiple turns in a row, turning it into a dangerously capable skirmisher and flanker. As the long-time mainstay of our line up since we started this career, we give it recognition for its service and continued contribution by also giving it the moniker @milski.
Jamestown, like Camadeirre, is part of the ongoing contest between the Taurian Concordat and the FedSuns, so our stay here once again sees us attempting to profit through taking work from both sides.
Nice planet. What do we blow up first?
The strategy largely works. We roll in, exchange a few blows with whatever opposition, but the Smof/@milski/@Munkus Beaver trio is now tuned and well balanced to work with either the Jenner or Firestarter as a forward scout. Every mission goes roughly to plan, all our Mechs stay upright and functional, and none of our pilots get shot or injured. It is, by any salient measure, a reasonably successful tour. When we leave Jamestown, it is with all of our Mechs intact, a full compliment of pilots, and a bank balance roughly the same as when we arrived.
This is because Jamestown is the location of an SLDF outpost, so we channelled all of our earnings into lostech parts. So in addition to a full compliment of Mechs and pilots, we also leave with a mech bay filled with ER lasers, Pulse lasers, and a rare Double Heat Sink some mad bastard was flogging on the parts market.
Going to make my Mechs glow with so many lasers OpFor will think they're being attacked by disco.