[2020 ELECTION] THREAD OF WHAT IN THE ACTUAL FORK

18283858788100

Posts

  • SageinaRageSageinaRage Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    Also my parents voted for Trump again because abortion and I'm furious.

    It’s so frustrating because best case scenario for them is that it becomes a states rights issue, in which case the overall amount of abortions will stay the same, it’s just it will even more disproportionately be a procedure available only to the well off who can afford to travel to a blue state.

    If they wanted to actually reduce the overall number of abortions the best thing you could do would be to support birth control and sex ed, which are best in blue states

    But it’s about making abortion as miserable as possible for those who are poor or with few options. It’s always just about punishment and blame for those hanging on to the most vulnerable and lowest rungs of the social ladder

    why would it turn into a states right issue and not just be federally banned?

    It doesn't fall under any of the federal government's enumerated powers, is the short answer. If you go by the usual tagline of abortion is murder, well the federal government can't ban murder either, that's a criminal offense which is reserved for the states. Now, maybe they will come up with some convoluted way of saying that abortion is actually barred by some amendment to the constitution or something, but I can't think of what that would be. Usually the supreme court at least makes an effort for their results to be based on an actual legal argument.

    shrykespool32Elldren
  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    Also my parents voted for Trump again because abortion and I'm furious.

    It’s so frustrating because best case scenario for them is that it becomes a states rights issue, in which case the overall amount of abortions will stay the same, it’s just it will even more disproportionately be a procedure available only to the well off who can afford to travel to a blue state.

    If they wanted to actually reduce the overall number of abortions the best thing you could do would be to support birth control and sex ed, which are best in blue states

    But it’s about making abortion as miserable as possible for those who are poor or with few options. It’s always just about punishment and blame for those hanging on to the most vulnerable and lowest rungs of the social ladder

    why would it turn into a states right issue and not just be federally banned?

    It doesn't fall under any of the federal government's enumerated powers, is the short answer. If you go by the usual tagline of abortion is murder, well the federal government can't ban murder either, that's a criminal offense which is reserved for the states. Now, maybe they will come up with some convoluted way of saying that abortion is actually barred by some amendment to the constitution or something, but I can't think of what that would be. Usually the supreme court at least makes an effort for their results to be based on an actual legal argument.

    The easy loophole is making it a Federal crime to travel across state borders to obtain an abortion. Or some Commerce Clause fuckery.

    It's not like the GOP actually cares about it being legitimate, they are always willing to make some legal doctrine up out of whole cloth if its convenient.

    Man in the Mists
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    Also my parents voted for Trump again because abortion and I'm furious.

    It’s so frustrating because best case scenario for them is that it becomes a states rights issue, in which case the overall amount of abortions will stay the same, it’s just it will even more disproportionately be a procedure available only to the well off who can afford to travel to a blue state.

    If they wanted to actually reduce the overall number of abortions the best thing you could do would be to support birth control and sex ed, which are best in blue states

    But it’s about making abortion as miserable as possible for those who are poor or with few options. It’s always just about punishment and blame for those hanging on to the most vulnerable and lowest rungs of the social ladder

    why would it turn into a states right issue and not just be federally banned?

    It doesn't fall under any of the federal government's enumerated powers, is the short answer. If you go by the usual tagline of abortion is murder, well the federal government can't ban murder either, that's a criminal offense which is reserved for the states. Now, maybe they will come up with some convoluted way of saying that abortion is actually barred by some amendment to the constitution or something, but I can't think of what that would be. Usually the supreme court at least makes an effort for their results to be based on an actual legal argument.

    ...Murder is a federal offense. The Court could conceivably declare fetuses to be Persons meriting 14th Amendment protections and outlaw abortions everywhere. Unfortunately we'll find out soon enough.

    MorganVCouscousXaquinCelestialBadgerRaijuJragghenAbsoluteZeroQuidIncenjucarArdolDoodmannFencingsaxMazzyxA Kobold's KoboldDavid WalgasSkeithMoridin889emp123Donovan Puppyfucker
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    Also my parents voted for Trump again because abortion and I'm furious.

    It’s so frustrating because best case scenario for them is that it becomes a states rights issue, in which case the overall amount of abortions will stay the same, it’s just it will even more disproportionately be a procedure available only to the well off who can afford to travel to a blue state.

    If they wanted to actually reduce the overall number of abortions the best thing you could do would be to support birth control and sex ed, which are best in blue states

    But it’s about making abortion as miserable as possible for those who are poor or with few options. It’s always just about punishment and blame for those hanging on to the most vulnerable and lowest rungs of the social ladder

    why would it turn into a states right issue and not just be federally banned?

    It doesn't fall under any of the federal government's enumerated powers, is the short answer. If you go by the usual tagline of abortion is murder, well the federal government can't ban murder either, that's a criminal offense which is reserved for the states. Now, maybe they will come up with some convoluted way of saying that abortion is actually barred by some amendment to the constitution or something, but I can't think of what that would be. Usually the supreme court at least makes an effort for their results to be based on an actual legal argument.

    Unalienable right to life (DoI) + life begins at conception = legal justification if you want it to be.

    autono-wally, erotibot300XaquinZonugalFencingsax
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    but we still get to have the death penalty because mumble mumble fuck you.

    steam_sig.png
    Steam, Warframe: Megajoule
    GiantGeek2020autono-wally, erotibot300SmurphCelestialBadgerRaijuZonugalBlackDragon480AbsoluteZeroMartini_PhilosopherMrVyngaardQuidNo-QuarterIncenjucarArdolJazzTofystedethHacksawAistanKruiteFencingsaxMazzyxA Kobold's KoboldjdarksunKristmas KthulhuRickRudeSpoitMan in the MistsNobeardSkeithkimeKoopahTroopahboogedybooRingoemp123Donovan PuppyfuckerMatevElldren
  • ChanusChanus I've seen things... Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    Also my parents voted for Trump again because abortion and I'm furious.

    It’s so frustrating because best case scenario for them is that it becomes a states rights issue, in which case the overall amount of abortions will stay the same, it’s just it will even more disproportionately be a procedure available only to the well off who can afford to travel to a blue state.

    If they wanted to actually reduce the overall number of abortions the best thing you could do would be to support birth control and sex ed, which are best in blue states

    But it’s about making abortion as miserable as possible for those who are poor or with few options. It’s always just about punishment and blame for those hanging on to the most vulnerable and lowest rungs of the social ladder

    why would it turn into a states right issue and not just be federally banned?

    It doesn't fall under any of the federal government's enumerated powers, is the short answer. If you go by the usual tagline of abortion is murder, well the federal government can't ban murder either, that's a criminal offense which is reserved for the states. Now, maybe they will come up with some convoluted way of saying that abortion is actually barred by some amendment to the constitution or something, but I can't think of what that would be. Usually the supreme court at least makes an effort for their results to be based on an actual legal argument.

    ...Murder is a federal offense. The Court could conceivably declare fetuses to be Persons meriting 14th Amendment protections and outlaw abortions everywhere. Unfortunately we'll find out soon enough.

    time to start getting pregnant and claiming dependents on my taxes until i miscarry i guess

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
    Doctor Detroit
  • dlinfinitidlinfiniti Registered User regular
    the key is to use their rules against them
    suddenly all fetuses are criminals
    original sin? more like original felony

    AAAAA!!! PLAAAYGUUU!!!!
  • SmurphSmurph Registered User regular
    I'm seeing Trump supporters on Twitter suddenly in love with Trafalgar Group polls (polls are lies unless they like the results). Seems unlikely these are accurate, but worth keeping an eye on.

    Michigan:
    Trump 47 (+1)
    Biden 46
    Jorgenson 3
    Hawkins 2

    Wisconsin:
    Biden 47 (+2)
    Trump 45
    Jorgenson 3

    Florida:
    Trump 48 (+2)
    Biden 46
    Jorgenson 2


  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited October 18
    It could be accurate, it seems likely this will be unbelievably infuriatingly close either way, which is just fucking great

    Prohass on
    CelestialBadgerAbsoluteZeroGnome-InterruptusJazzspool32ElvenshaeSmurphGiantGeek2020FencingsaxHeirNobeardvalhalla130
  • DrovekDrovek Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    Also my parents voted for Trump again because abortion and I'm furious.

    It’s so frustrating because best case scenario for them is that it becomes a states rights issue, in which case the overall amount of abortions will stay the same, it’s just it will even more disproportionately be a procedure available only to the well off who can afford to travel to a blue state.

    If they wanted to actually reduce the overall number of abortions the best thing you could do would be to support birth control and sex ed, which are best in blue states

    But it’s about making abortion as miserable as possible for those who are poor or with few options. It’s always just about punishment and blame for those hanging on to the most vulnerable and lowest rungs of the social ladder

    why would it turn into a states right issue and not just be federally banned?

    It doesn't fall under any of the federal government's enumerated powers, is the short answer. If you go by the usual tagline of abortion is murder, well the federal government can't ban murder either, that's a criminal offense which is reserved for the states. Now, maybe they will come up with some convoluted way of saying that abortion is actually barred by some amendment to the constitution or something, but I can't think of what that would be. Usually the supreme court at least makes an effort for their results to be based on an actual legal argument.

    ...Murder is a federal offense. The Court could conceivably declare fetuses to be Persons meriting 14th Amendment protections and outlaw abortions everywhere. Unfortunately we'll find out soon enough.

    Wouldn't that have the fun side-effect of making everyone conceived in the US also an American Citizen?

    steam_sig.png
    Captain InertiaDoctor DetroitMorganVShadowhopeSorceRaijuGnizmoBlackDragon480shrykeMartini_PhilosopherGnome-InterruptusNo-QuarterDevoutlyApatheticJazzDoodmannTofystedethElvenshaespool32GiantGeek2020MvrckMunkus BeaverFencingsaxA Kobold's KoboldShadowfireRozjdarksunHavelock2.0Kristmas KthulhusanstodoStabbity StyleFoolOnTheHillNobeardHappylilElfSkeithkimeMan in the MistsMoridin889valhalla130RingoLabelDiplominatorEinzelFleur de Alysnever die38thDoeDonovan PuppyfuckerMatevElldren
  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    Prohass wrote: »
    It could be accurate, it seems likely this will be unbelievably infuriatingly close either way, which is just fucking great

    Based on the past 2 elections if you told me Trump was +1 or -2 in Pennsylvania I'd be inclined to believe you but saying he's up in Michigan after how 2018 went and how 2016 was I'm calling bullshit.

    RedTide#1907 on Battle.net
    Come Overwatch with meeeee
    monikerOrcaBlackDragon480ElJeffeJaysonFour
  • Kayne Red RobeKayne Red Robe Master of Magic ArcanusRegistered User regular
    Drovek wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    Also my parents voted for Trump again because abortion and I'm furious.

    It’s so frustrating because best case scenario for them is that it becomes a states rights issue, in which case the overall amount of abortions will stay the same, it’s just it will even more disproportionately be a procedure available only to the well off who can afford to travel to a blue state.

    If they wanted to actually reduce the overall number of abortions the best thing you could do would be to support birth control and sex ed, which are best in blue states

    But it’s about making abortion as miserable as possible for those who are poor or with few options. It’s always just about punishment and blame for those hanging on to the most vulnerable and lowest rungs of the social ladder

    why would it turn into a states right issue and not just be federally banned?

    It doesn't fall under any of the federal government's enumerated powers, is the short answer. If you go by the usual tagline of abortion is murder, well the federal government can't ban murder either, that's a criminal offense which is reserved for the states. Now, maybe they will come up with some convoluted way of saying that abortion is actually barred by some amendment to the constitution or something, but I can't think of what that would be. Usually the supreme court at least makes an effort for their results to be based on an actual legal argument.

    ...Murder is a federal offense. The Court could conceivably declare fetuses to be Persons meriting 14th Amendment protections and outlaw abortions everywhere. Unfortunately we'll find out soon enough.

    Wouldn't that have the fun side-effect of making everyone conceived in the US also an American Citizen?

    They've had it out for jus soli for a while now, I'm sure they'd love an excuse to kill it.

    BigJoeMMrVyngaardElvenshaeFencingsaxpainfulPleasanceMoridin889valhalla130Matev
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Yeah the fashes hate everything about the 14th amendment

    BigJoeMMrVyngaardFencingsaxpainfulPleasanceMan in the Mistsvalhalla130Elldren
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    dlinfiniti wrote: »
    the key is to use their rules against them
    suddenly all fetuses are criminals
    original sin? more like original felony

    Make a law conscripting all fetuses, and you get to use the Third Amendment.

    Rhesus PositiveFencingsaxRingoemp123Matev
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    CNN Contributor:
    Lara Trump tells #CNNSOTU that Trump wasn’t doing anything to “threaten” people with “lock her up” chants . She says “he was just having fun.” Described the atmosphere at “light hearted.”
    Lara Trump is a former American television producer and campaign adviser to Donald Trump. She is married to Eric Trump.

    Saying to arrest political opponents is all just good fun now

    ShadowhopemonikerRaijuBlackDragon480AbsoluteZeroshrykeMartini_PhilosopherNo-QuarterIncenjucarArdolJazzCantideTofystedethElvenshaeGiantGeek2020JaysonFourFencingsaxMazzyxShadowfireHavelock2.0RickRudepainfulPleasanceGimStabbity StylekimeKoopahTroopahMan in the Mistsvalhalla130emp12338thDoeDonovan PuppyfuckerElldren
  • LilnoobsLilnoobs Alpha Queue Registered User regular
    Drovek wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    Also my parents voted for Trump again because abortion and I'm furious.

    It’s so frustrating because best case scenario for them is that it becomes a states rights issue, in which case the overall amount of abortions will stay the same, it’s just it will even more disproportionately be a procedure available only to the well off who can afford to travel to a blue state.

    If they wanted to actually reduce the overall number of abortions the best thing you could do would be to support birth control and sex ed, which are best in blue states

    But it’s about making abortion as miserable as possible for those who are poor or with few options. It’s always just about punishment and blame for those hanging on to the most vulnerable and lowest rungs of the social ladder

    why would it turn into a states right issue and not just be federally banned?

    It doesn't fall under any of the federal government's enumerated powers, is the short answer. If you go by the usual tagline of abortion is murder, well the federal government can't ban murder either, that's a criminal offense which is reserved for the states. Now, maybe they will come up with some convoluted way of saying that abortion is actually barred by some amendment to the constitution or something, but I can't think of what that would be. Usually the supreme court at least makes an effort for their results to be based on an actual legal argument.

    ...Murder is a federal offense. The Court could conceivably declare fetuses to be Persons meriting 14th Amendment protections and outlaw abortions everywhere. Unfortunately we'll find out soon enough.

    Wouldn't that have the fun side-effect of making everyone conceived in the US also an American Citizen?

    No, because the hacked Supreme Court doesn't care about logic or hypocrisy.

    Heirvalhalla130
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    I don't think there is an originalist argument for fetuses being people legally, but that doesn't really matter

    painfulPleasance
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    CNN Contributor:
    Lara Trump tells #CNNSOTU that Trump wasn’t doing anything to “threaten” people with “lock her up” chants . She says “he was just having fun.” Described the atmosphere at “light hearted.”
    Lara Trump is a former American television producer and campaign adviser to Donald Trump. She is married to Eric Trump.

    Saying to arrest political opponents is all just good fun now

    See, this is the kind of thing that bugs the shit out of me. Not Lara Trump, we already know she's a soulless ghoul. Posting this shit without any commentary is journalistic malpractice. "I don't judge, I report, you decide!" Literally everybody should be condemning Trump for riling up his crowds into an attempted fascist coup by jailing his political adversaries. This shit should be unacceptable, not "oh that's just Trump lol". We just saw a kidnapping attempt occur because of his "light hearted" words.

    I blame Twitter, too. People used to get their news by reading it. Now everything is distilled into sanitized soundbites that they don't care enough to moderate unless it's liberal in origin.

    The scary thing about this election is that even after Trump is gone, so much shit has been normalized in the public consciousness that I fear we will never re-stigmatize these things.

    wobblyheadedbobRaijuOrcabrynhrtmnJragghenMorganVAbsoluteZeroMartini_PhilosopherBigJoeMGnome-InterruptusMild ConfusionForarIncenjucarJazzCommander ZoomDoctorArchPreacherCantideTofystedethMrVyngaardHacksawAistanElvenshaeKamarGiantGeek2020Munkus BeaverMosatiTicaldfjamJaysonFourFencingsaxA Kobold's KoboldjdarksunRhesus PositiveLord_AsmodeusHavelock2.0Kristmas KthulhuRickRudepainfulPleasanceSpoitStabbity StyleSkeithkimeMoridin889LabelMr Rayemp123Qanamil38thDoeDonovan PuppyfuckerElldren
  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    Trump often uses the "It's just a joke" excuse for this deplorable shit.

    Problem is, he's been doing the same material for years and no one laughs, including his supporters. But some of those supporters seem to take it seriously enough to try to do it themselves.

    monikerjoshofalltradesAbsoluteZeroBurnageshrykeCelestialBadgerIncenjucarArdolJazzRawkking GoodguyCommander ZoomCantideEmerlmaster999TofystedethMrVyngaardElvenshaeGiantGeek2020JaysonFourFencingsaxA Kobold's KoboldjdarksunRhesus PositiveLord_AsmodeusRickRudepainfulPleasanceStabbity StyleFoolOnTheHillNobeardMan in the MistsMoridin889Mr Rayemp123Donovan PuppyfuckerMatevElldren
  • RaijuRaiju regular Registered User regular
    It's times like this that I wish green card holders were able to vote in general elections. I mean, my wife works and pays taxes just like any other American citizen. She should have a say in the government that's taking money out of her paycheck.

    Naturalization isn't on the cards at the moment and looking back at the last four years in hindsight, I can understand her hesitation. But then again, she's originally from Brazil and Bolsanaro is a mini Trump already...

    wobblyheadedbobUrsus
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Tomanta wrote: »
    Trump often uses the "It's just a joke" excuse for this deplorable shit.

    Problem is, he's been doing the same material for years and no one laughs, including his supporters. But some of those supporters seem to take it seriously enough to try to do it themselves.

    I've been married to someone who says awful shit and then, after I get offended, goes, "Lighten up! It's just a joke!"

    America is in a goddamn abusive relationship. The thing about those is that even after they end, they leave scars.

    MegaMan001AbsoluteZeroCelestialBadgerIncenjucarJazzCommander ZoomTofystedethMrVyngaardspool32CantideJaysonFourViskodRhesus PositivelonelyahavaHavelock2.0Kristmas KthulhuGimHeirStabbity StyleNobeardMan in the MistsMoridin889valhalla130LabelDonovan PuppyfuckerMatevElldren
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    It's the Windmill defense. 'If I swing my arms and you walk into them it's your fault!'

    Clearly there is no connection between Trump naming names and people plotting to harm them. It must obviously be the person's fault for doing something worth plotting for.

    OrcaAbsoluteZeroJazzMrVyngaardElvenshaeFencingsaxRhesus PositiveStabbity StyleMoridin889
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited October 18
    Smurph wrote: »
    I'm seeing Trump supporters on Twitter suddenly in love with Trafalgar Group polls (polls are lies unless they like the results). Seems unlikely these are accurate, but worth keeping an eye on.

    Michigan:
    Trump 47 (+1)
    Biden 46
    Jorgenson 3
    Hawkins 2

    Wisconsin:
    Biden 47 (+2)
    Trump 45
    Jorgenson 3

    Florida:
    Trump 48 (+2)
    Biden 46
    Jorgenson 2


    Trafalgar assumes that shy Trump voters are a thing so just gives Trump more points in their polls. Don't link them.

    EDIT: Just for funsies I looked at the internals, they assume a Michigan electorate that's older and whiter than 2016.

    enlightenedbum on
    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
    monikerjoshofalltradesshrykeOremLKAPODionysusBlackDragon480GiantGeek2020JaysonFourFencingsaxjdarksunStabbity StyleboogedybooElldren
  • AbsalonAbsalon Registered User regular

    AZ: Biden 50-47
    WI: Biden 51-46
    Biden at 50 or 51 is good, but those margins need to be doubled before I get happy.

    We are all as God made us and frequently much worse
    JragghenmonikerXaquinRMS OceanicMorganVGnome-InterruptusMild ConfusionQuidNo-QuarterIncenjucarArdolJazzAbsoluteZeroStarZapperCommander ZoomBlackDragon480RaijuTofystedethChanusElvenshaeHacksawMartini_PhilosopherGiantGeek2020CantideAegisJaysonFourFencingsaxA Kobold's KoboldShadowfirejdarksunRhesus PositiveLord_AsmodeusHavelock2.0sanstodoHeirStabbity StyleFoolOnTheHillkimeMan in the MistsboogedybooMoridin889RingoLabelemp123Fleur de Alysnever die38thDoeFawstDonovan PuppyfuckerElldren
  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited October 18
    Every now and again I see polls and I’m like oh that’s a good poll and my mind snaps out of the context and it feels like:

    “47% say they support Zendarrrrr, the Alien fire emperor who will feed dog feces to our children for eternity, while 50% support joe Biden”

    And my mind just screams a little

    Prohass on
    JragghenmonikerCelestialBadgerXaquinAntinumericOrcathatassemblyguyAlexandierTetraRayQuidEmperorSethShadowhopeNo-QuarterArteenIncenjucarArdolDevoutlyApatheticJazzDrovekjoshofalltradesAbsoluteZeroCommander ZoomBlackDragon480RaijuTofystedethMrVyngaardElvenshaeHacksawMartini_PhilosopherKamarGiantGeek2020Munkus BeaverJaysonFourFencingsaxA Kobold's KoboldShadowfireTetraNitroCubanejdarksunlonelyahavaKristmas KthulhuAtomikaRickRudeMr FuzzbuttGimsanstodoHeirStabbity StyleFoolOnTheHillNobeardSkeithkimeKoopahTroopahboogedybooMoridin889RingoLabelemp123Fleur de AlysDonovan PuppyfuckerMatevElldren
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    I think about that break for Trump by white, high school or less educated men and women at least once a day.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
    ProhassDark_SideAbsoluteZeroBlackDragon480Fencingsax
  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister Registered User regular
    If Biden shaves even like, a single point from Trump's voting base that's basically the ballgame. Trump only won the battleground states he won in 2016 by basically the margin of error, he really cannot afford to lose anyone at this point and he's already been hemorrhaging support from women except the diehards.

    No-QuarterMosatiFencingsaxMan in the MistsMoridin889
  • AbsalonAbsalon Registered User regular
    Of note, Last CBS poll in AZ was Biden +3, but him at 47 and Trump at 44. I think their last poll in WI was Biden 50% and Trump 46%. So they are not showing any tightening.

    We are all as God made us and frequently much worse
  • EtheaEthea Registered User regular
    +2 in NY.

    Donated to a few senate races to help out, since I have nothing locally

    JragghenXaquinPantsBmonikerArdolJazzAbsoluteZeroMild ConfusionCommander ZoomRMS OceanicRaijuTofystedethMorganVChanusElvenshaeHacksawMartini_PhilosopherGiantGeek2020Marty81AegisJaysonFourFencingsaxA Kobold's KoboldShadowfirejdarksunRhesus PositiveLord_AsmodeuslonelyahavaKristmas KthulhuStabbity StyleFoolOnTheHillForarboogedybooMoridin889RingoLabelemp12338thDoeDonovan PuppyfuckerMatevElldren
  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    Also my parents voted for Trump again because abortion and I'm furious.

    It’s so frustrating because best case scenario for them is that it becomes a states rights issue, in which case the overall amount of abortions will stay the same, it’s just it will even more disproportionately be a procedure available only to the well off who can afford to travel to a blue state.

    If they wanted to actually reduce the overall number of abortions the best thing you could do would be to support birth control and sex ed, which are best in blue states

    But it’s about making abortion as miserable as possible for those who are poor or with few options. It’s always just about punishment and blame for those hanging on to the most vulnerable and lowest rungs of the social ladder

    why would it turn into a states right issue and not just be federally banned?

    It doesn't fall under any of the federal government's enumerated powers, is the short answer. If you go by the usual tagline of abortion is murder, well the federal government can't ban murder either, that's a criminal offense which is reserved for the states. Now, maybe they will come up with some convoluted way of saying that abortion is actually barred by some amendment to the constitution or something, but I can't think of what that would be. Usually the supreme court at least makes an effort for their results to be based on an actual legal argument.

    ...Murder is a federal offense. The Court could conceivably declare fetuses to be Persons meriting 14th Amendment protections and outlaw abortions everywhere. Unfortunately we'll find out soon enough.

    Not automatically. The case needs to somehow fall under federal jurisdiction. Most murder charges are filed by district attorneys and the defendants are tried in state court.

    PSN: idontworkhere582 | CFN: idontworkhere | Steam: lordbutters
    DoodmannGiantGeek2020FencingsaxSageinaRageMoridin889Elldren
  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    edited October 18
    Butters wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    Also my parents voted for Trump again because abortion and I'm furious.

    It’s so frustrating because best case scenario for them is that it becomes a states rights issue, in which case the overall amount of abortions will stay the same, it’s just it will even more disproportionately be a procedure available only to the well off who can afford to travel to a blue state.

    If they wanted to actually reduce the overall number of abortions the best thing you could do would be to support birth control and sex ed, which are best in blue states

    But it’s about making abortion as miserable as possible for those who are poor or with few options. It’s always just about punishment and blame for those hanging on to the most vulnerable and lowest rungs of the social ladder

    why would it turn into a states right issue and not just be federally banned?

    It doesn't fall under any of the federal government's enumerated powers, is the short answer. If you go by the usual tagline of abortion is murder, well the federal government can't ban murder either, that's a criminal offense which is reserved for the states. Now, maybe they will come up with some convoluted way of saying that abortion is actually barred by some amendment to the constitution or something, but I can't think of what that would be. Usually the supreme court at least makes an effort for their results to be based on an actual legal argument.

    ...Murder is a federal offense. The Court could conceivably declare fetuses to be Persons meriting 14th Amendment protections and outlaw abortions everywhere. Unfortunately we'll find out soon enough.

    Not automatically. The case needs to somehow fall under federal jurisdiction. Most murder charges are filed by district attorneys and the defendants are tried in state court.

    I also don't see how legally you could charge a woman with that murder and not also try to charge the performing physician and the absolute shit storm that would turn into.

    The only play they have is state by state abortion and birth control legality.

    They go for the throat and throw the switch on federal prohibition then we're back to either a theocratic sort of fascism or an electorate that will let the Democrats pack the court and tell them to go screw.

    RedTide on
    RedTide#1907 on Battle.net
    Come Overwatch with meeeee
  • MillMill Registered User regular
    Spoit wrote: »
    Mill wrote: »
    Tox wrote: »
    Six wrote: »
    National Democratic Party is investing a record 50 million in state legislative races. Which might tell you how cheap it is to buy state legislatures for big money.

    Who could have thought this was a good idea?

    Not sure if sarcastic but for anyone who doesn't know why this would be a good idea, winning a shitton of state legislatures in 2010 is a big part of how the GOP fucked everything so hard

    They got into power right as the census results were being put into place so they got to redraw all the lines

    The 2010 election is responsible for the lost decade we just had. If I could have my way, the 2020 election would enable the Democratic party to redraw things so they get 10 years of unfettered power, because we have a ton of work to do, that needs to be done over a sustained period of time to hit a critical mass, and backsliding could literally mean death for vast swaths of people.

    Texas, Michigan, and Pennsylvania having fair maps would be like 10-15 extra seats for Democrats in the House.

    Yeah, look how many seats the democrats got out of VA, once the courts forced them to draw fair maps. Problem is, that only happened because the fuckers couldn't proven that they weren't being fucking racist when they drew the VA maps. Once they figure out how to rig the system without being obviously racist, we're kind of screwed if the current court doesn't get expanded.

    I thought the new scotus precedent was that it isn't a racial gerrymander unless you have them literally on tape saying it is. And that it's a okay to gerrymander for political reasons

    No, they've decided that is a bridge too far. Keep in mind, when I say Roberts is concerned about the courts legitimacy. It's not a case that he is worried about ruling wrong and in the far off feature people will be tearing down statues of him that have graffiti dicks on them. It's a very much here and now thing. Unlike Trump, many republicans and their dumb fucking racist base. He gets they are a minority and he also gets that you don't cross certain lines if you want to maintain your bullshit minority rule. He fully gets that if the system is viewed as something that does listen to the will of the people, people are going to be less inclined to take radical steps to make it responsive and thus his racist white authoritarian ass gets to keep power. Letting the GOP legally pack all the minorities into 1-3 districts, while keeping the other 80% of them is a surefire way to make things go south real quick and have a situation where he is less worried about stealing power and more worried about seeing the next day. I imagine this is how more of the smarter republicans also see things. They get they have to maintain certain things or they will get overthrown. Hence this is also why the only court fuckery in regards to this election has to do with either shit where they let the republicans make it harder to vote or if we get a case where the winner is really on the margins. I suspect Roberts and the less braindead GOP fully get that if they make an obvious theft of the election, there will be riots and they'll ultimately end up losing because legitimacy is something you actual need in order to govern. If you don't have it, you aren't going to get shit done at all and will be spending tons of resources fighting everyone that wants you out.

    Anyways as for the polls. Trump was elected as a plurality president and he got in on the margins. So Biden cutting into any part of his vote from 2016 is going to hurt his chances at re-election. The big one is if Biden is siphoning off senior votes. Those are the most reliable votes in our electorate. Also if 2018 is anything to go by, there just aren't a ton of undecided non-voters or even non-voters to get. The silent majority thing is a fucking myth really. As we get more people going from non-voter to voter, the non-voting pool increasingly ends up being made of individuals that have either been disenfranchised or just don't give a shit. Given that the GOP has been working very to make voting harder, it tells you they don't believe most of those being disenfranchised will vote for them and might also be an indication that they suspect the "no shits given" crowd doesn't like their policies either. I'll have to look, but I do believe there has been research and polling showing that this shit show of an administration has resulted in many minorities that use to not bother voting, registering and getting active in politics against the GOP because they feel if they continue to do nothing, they really will end up in camps with no rights.



    Fencingsax
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    RedTide wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    Also my parents voted for Trump again because abortion and I'm furious.

    It’s so frustrating because best case scenario for them is that it becomes a states rights issue, in which case the overall amount of abortions will stay the same, it’s just it will even more disproportionately be a procedure available only to the well off who can afford to travel to a blue state.

    If they wanted to actually reduce the overall number of abortions the best thing you could do would be to support birth control and sex ed, which are best in blue states

    But it’s about making abortion as miserable as possible for those who are poor or with few options. It’s always just about punishment and blame for those hanging on to the most vulnerable and lowest rungs of the social ladder

    why would it turn into a states right issue and not just be federally banned?

    It doesn't fall under any of the federal government's enumerated powers, is the short answer. If you go by the usual tagline of abortion is murder, well the federal government can't ban murder either, that's a criminal offense which is reserved for the states. Now, maybe they will come up with some convoluted way of saying that abortion is actually barred by some amendment to the constitution or something, but I can't think of what that would be. Usually the supreme court at least makes an effort for their results to be based on an actual legal argument.

    ...Murder is a federal offense. The Court could conceivably declare fetuses to be Persons meriting 14th Amendment protections and outlaw abortions everywhere. Unfortunately we'll find out soon enough.

    Not automatically. The case needs to somehow fall under federal jurisdiction. Most murder charges are filed by district attorneys and the defendants are tried in state court.

    I also don't see how legally you could charge a woman with that murder and not also try to charge the performing physician and the absolute shit storm that would turn into.

    The only play they have is state by state abortion and birth control legality.

    They go for the throat and throw the switch on federal prohibition then we're back to either a theocratic sort of fascism or an electorate that will let the Democrats pack the court and tell them to go screw.

    that's the idea. that's how they stop the practice.

    MillBlackDragon480ShadowhopeGnome-InterruptusButtersMrVyngaardJragghenElvenshaeIncenjucarFencingsaxA Kobold's KoboldDavid WalgasKetBrajdarksunpainfulPleasanceMan in the MistsMoridin889SorceEinzelemp123Donovan Puppyfucker
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited October 18
    If Biden shaves even like, a single point from Trump's voting base that's basically the ballgame. Trump only won the battleground states he won in 2016 by basically the margin of error, he really cannot afford to lose anyone at this point and he's already been hemorrhaging support from women except the diehards.

    In a fair fight Trump will lose according to every poll I’ve seen. The word “fair” doing a lot of heavy lifting there.

    Unfortunately the Senate is just as important as the presidency right now, since we will need to do some things once Trump is gone. And I would like to see those races become less competitive because we are destroying the Republicans.

    joshofalltrades on
    MillJragghenBlackDragon480JazzGnome-InterruptusCommander ZoomElvenshaeGiantGeek2020Metzger MeisterHeirNobeardMan in the Mistsvalhalla130Donovan PuppyfuckerMatev
  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    Tomanta wrote: »
    Trump often uses the "It's just a joke" excuse for this deplorable shit.

    Problem is, he's been doing the same material for years and no one laughs, including his supporters. But some of those supporters seem to take it seriously enough to try to do it themselves.

    This has been an ongoing phenomenon for awhile now that the racists and facists have found social networking -it's a big fat joke right up until the day it isn't. It's roving packs of armed, white power racists wearing Hawaiian shirts and calling themselves boogaloos. It's 4 chan memes about the holocaust and nazis making it increasingly ok to accept nazi ideology. And on and on. There's truth to this idea that Trump is a stand up comic, and his crowds are only there to hear him tell the old classic jokes, but the whole point about lock her up chants is they're only a joke until they're not -something everyone in those rallies implicitly understands.

    wobblyheadedbobRaijumonikerJazzelectricitylikesmeshrykeEtheaButtersGnome-InterruptusMrVyngaardCommander ZoomGiantGeek2020Mild ConfusionArdolFencingsaxCantideA Kobold's KoboldVeagleRhesus PositiveLord_AsmodeusKristmas KthulhuBigJoeMpainfulPleasanceStabbity StyleNobeardAbsoluteZeroMan in the MistsMoridin889Lord Palingtonvalhalla130Labelemp123Donovan PuppyfuckerMatevElldren
  • MillMill Registered User regular
    If Biden shaves even like, a single point from Trump's voting base that's basically the ballgame. Trump only won the battleground states he won in 2016 by basically the margin of error, he really cannot afford to lose anyone at this point and he's already been hemorrhaging support from women except the diehards.

    In a fair fight Trump will lose according to every poll I’ve seen. The word “fair” doing a lot of heavy lifting there.

    Unfortunately the Senate is just as important as the presidency right now, since we will need to do some things once Trump is gone. And I would like to see those races become less competitive because we are destroying the Republicans.

    Exactly, we need the presidency, the house and the senate. That ay we can expand the court and make the rat fuckers on it irrelevant. This is turn lets us get new law and regulations to crush all the fascist authoritarian shit the GOP has been up to to steal power. if they no longer have those tools, we also have to worry less about a more competent Trump coming in and cementing power because his shitass playbook will no longer be relevant.

    wobblyheadedbob
  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    In Michigan (MI Dem staffer)
    WATCH: John James completely fumbles on @Local4News when pressed on how he'd protect Michiganders with pre-existing conditions. (Hint: it's because he has absolutely no plan to do so) #MISen https://t.co/OA48Pvi4iG
    That is not explicitly the GOP challenger to Sen Peters dropping out but... yeah that is a choke job

    BTW if you are running for Senate you are a politician.

    11793-1.png
    day9gosu.png
    QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
    Gnome-InterruptusElvenshaeJaysonFourFencingsaxmonikerBlackDragon480Kristmas KthulhuFoolOnTheHillJazzkimeKoopahTroopahMazzyxMan in the MistsMoridin889valhalla130emp123MatevElldren
  • OremLKOremLK Registered User regular
    edited October 18
    538 posted one of their Confidence Interval thingies yesterday discussing the odds that Democrats take the trifecta. Not too interested in the punditry aspect, but he did say he crunched the numbers using their model to figure out the odds of Democrats taking the Presidency, House, and Senate combined, and it came out as 70%. Also, IIRC it was about a coin flip to get 52+ in the Senate

    OremLK on
  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    RedTide wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    Also my parents voted for Trump again because abortion and I'm furious.

    It’s so frustrating because best case scenario for them is that it becomes a states rights issue, in which case the overall amount of abortions will stay the same, it’s just it will even more disproportionately be a procedure available only to the well off who can afford to travel to a blue state.

    If they wanted to actually reduce the overall number of abortions the best thing you could do would be to support birth control and sex ed, which are best in blue states

    But it’s about making abortion as miserable as possible for those who are poor or with few options. It’s always just about punishment and blame for those hanging on to the most vulnerable and lowest rungs of the social ladder

    why would it turn into a states right issue and not just be federally banned?

    It doesn't fall under any of the federal government's enumerated powers, is the short answer. If you go by the usual tagline of abortion is murder, well the federal government can't ban murder either, that's a criminal offense which is reserved for the states. Now, maybe they will come up with some convoluted way of saying that abortion is actually barred by some amendment to the constitution or something, but I can't think of what that would be. Usually the supreme court at least makes an effort for their results to be based on an actual legal argument.

    ...Murder is a federal offense. The Court could conceivably declare fetuses to be Persons meriting 14th Amendment protections and outlaw abortions everywhere. Unfortunately we'll find out soon enough.

    Not automatically. The case needs to somehow fall under federal jurisdiction. Most murder charges are filed by district attorneys and the defendants are tried in state court.

    I also don't see how legally you could charge a woman with that murder and not also try to charge the performing physician and the absolute shit storm that would turn into.

    The only play they have is state by state abortion and birth control legality.

    They go for the throat and throw the switch on federal prohibition then we're back to either a theocratic sort of fascism or an electorate that will let the Democrats pack the court and tell them to go screw.

    that's the idea. that's how they stop the practice.

    Yeah the heartbeat bills already have that sort of shit baked into them.

    PSN: idontworkhere582 | CFN: idontworkhere | Steam: lordbutters
    FencingsaxBlackDragon480NetscapeMan in the MistsMoridin889valhalla130Donovan Puppyfucker
  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    Also my parents voted for Trump again because abortion and I'm furious.

    It’s so frustrating because best case scenario for them is that it becomes a states rights issue, in which case the overall amount of abortions will stay the same, it’s just it will even more disproportionately be a procedure available only to the well off who can afford to travel to a blue state.

    If they wanted to actually reduce the overall number of abortions the best thing you could do would be to support birth control and sex ed, which are best in blue states

    But it’s about making abortion as miserable as possible for those who are poor or with few options. It’s always just about punishment and blame for those hanging on to the most vulnerable and lowest rungs of the social ladder

    why would it turn into a states right issue and not just be federally banned?

    Reversing Roe returns us to the status quo ante, which was that state law controlled access.

    BlackDragon480Netscape
This discussion has been closed.