Ortiz actual quote wasn't as bad as the headline made it seem. My reading of the longer excerpt is that he was more upset Fiers didn't speak up in the moment than the fact that he spoke up at all.
Anything less than a postseason ban for at least a year is cowardice by the MLB.
I agree. You simply can't let this slide like this or you are encouraging it to happen more. A few coaches getting fired but with no kind of permanent lifetime ban on coaching is basically just a normal offseason for most of these teams. Well worth the time/money if this gets you a world series championship. You need to drop the hammer on teams doing this post season bans are the very start of it. I would be for handing the cup to the team that lost as well. If there was only one non cheating team playing in the world series than they get it by default.
Yeah I don't really understand people saying Manfred shouldn't even try to punish them because of the players union (and Manfred himself echoing that). The players union is made up of...players. The players today seem to be everyone against the Astros (with the possible exception of the Red Sox, wonder why.....) -- make them put their money where their mouth's are.
If they put labor solidarity over their public comments and get the penalties waived, well cool! If you're Manfred you've just made yourself look a ton better, while simultaneously shutting up a lot of the players since their union is the one that screwed up the punishment.
If they don't, then hooray! Everyone is happy, except for terrible cheaters.
If they gave individual players immunity for their testimony I get sticking to that, but I feel like vacating the WS title and personal accolades falls outside of that scope.
Yeah, I have never seen someone beat out anything close to that. It wasn't particularly soft, the play/throw wasn't great but there was nothing awful about it. He just bolted out of the box and ran full out instantly. Man.
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SixCaches Tweets in the mainframe cyberhexRegistered Userregular
That was awesome.
Ichiro had a few of those his rookie year before everyone started playing him in a little closer.
Dick comment: so how much high heat were Astros batters dealing with during that pennant series? I checked out on MLB pretty much on purpose because of that debacle.
People got kind of bored of throwing at them cause they were mostly kind of bad in the regular season and in the playoffs you can’t mess with throwing at them
I don't endorse throwing at anyone, head or otherwise.
But in cases where it's a pitch that went a little wild I hope they all happen against anyone who played for the Astros the last few years. Fuck Correa for being a big wet baby, fuck Altuves stolen MVP award and fuck the commissioner until theirs and Boston's most recent titles are stripped.
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fuuuuu
atlanta needs to figure this shit out quickly
if the dodgers advance, the winner of the world series will bring a second championship title to their city this year
double championship cities are the most insufferable
see: Boston
I'm just glad LA will finally have some success, that town has struggled and they are due for one of their poor franchises to make it to a championship series.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
RIP Astros. I'll admit as a Houstonian and long-time Astros fan that I would've taken just a touch of perverse, probably-unethical pleasure in seeing them advance here. That being on my belief that actually, yeah, they're a good team and they didn't need to cheat and I'm pissed off that the World Series they finally won after a half a century is unnecessarily tainted. This is a team that was built from a great farm system and out of great prospects who earned most of what they got and then decided "fuck it let's cheat" after they got to the big leagues. Altuve especially. This is a guy who was signed as an undrafted free agent for next to nothing out of Venezuela, who was according to traditional scouts "too short to play baseball", and earned it every god damn step of the way in the minors and earned it again when he finally made to the majors under a different general manager and different coaching staff. He's talented and driven and he didn't need to pull that shit.
But then there's the greater, more-objective part of me which says, "Eh, karma's a bitch." Fact is, regardless of how effective it was, regardless of how talented they are, they fucking cheated and did their best to fuck over the game and it was underhanded and shitty. They earned their time in the doghouse, maybe even for the rest of their careers, and if other teams want to indulge in some schadenfreude, I won't begrudge that. And honestly, after the whole fiasco of trading for Osuna, I'd hardly been watching them play anyway. Just so. Damn. Disappointing. All the way around.
But man. No way Altuve makes it to the HoF now. And he might honestly have gotten there. And he genuinely seems like a decent guy except for the one shitty thing. Sucks.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Altuve had a very strange ALCS. 3 HRs, some big hits. But also multiple errors that ended up costing the Astros games and the series. This is after a lackluster regular season too. I don't think Altuve would make it into the HOF even without the cheating. He seemed to be on his way, but has dropped off pretty quickly and is now 30.
fuuuuu
atlanta needs to figure this shit out quickly
if the dodgers advance, the winner of the world series will bring a second championship title to their city this year
double championship cities are the most insufferable
see: Boston
Tampa is trying for 3 championships, and the last team that came close to that was Cleveland in 2016
I missed recently Joe Morgan passed away. Wasn't always a fan of his baseball commentary, but his voice and calls will definitely be a part of my childhood.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Joe Morgan? Hall of Fame caliber for sure, but not all that close to the top of the list according the analytics people usually refer to. (WAR, wOBA, OPS, etc. Hard to gauge defense using sabermetrics for players from that era, though, to be fair.) For me, it's probably Bonds*.
Regarding Altuve for HoF, depends whether you think he's in decline/was only that good because of cheating and won't be anymore. Possible, but hard to say at this stage. His decline hasn't been very pronounced or very long. But, moot point, BBWAA will never let him in now.
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
Oh. He was good. Real good. Top 4 second basemen. Number 19 on the all time oWar list. It’s just a far cry from 19 to 1. A Rod was more productive than he was from a harder position as an example and no one thinks he was the Goat
Ah my bad I misinterpreted a story in Baseball Prospectus (by way of Defector)- he is rated the 4th best 2nd basemen by JAWS (1st by WARP), and Bill James has Morgan as the best all-time for his “baseball IQ” stat (/shrug)
Oh. He was good. Real good. Top 4 second basemen. Number 19 on the all time oWar list. It’s just a far cry from 19 to 1. A Rod was more productive than he was from a harder position as an example and no one thinks he was the Goat
you say this as though A Rod's baggage wouldn't effect how people make such statements
Regarding Altuve for HoF, depends whether you think he's in decline/was only that good because of cheating and won't be anymore. Possible, but hard to say at this stage. His decline hasn't been very pronounced or very long. But, moot point, BBWAA will never let him in now.
We'll see what happens, but I'd be surprised if Altuve was a top 2b again in his career. He had a down 2019 an even worse 2020 and he'll be 31 in 2021. Just doesn't look good. I was a really big Altuve fan. Love the undersized 2b who just does everything well and even has good power. Cheating made it not fun to be a fan of his anymore though. Obviously can't say for sure, but it's pretty easy to look at some of the cheating years as years he had an inflating ba (especially good on offspeed).
One thing to mention, the sample size this year is basically nothing (for the whole league) and isn't enough to be predictive. It's true that between this year and last year his performance was down; IIRC he was hurt a lot last year though. It just depends whether he can rebound. Some players are still really good in their early to mid 30s. You could be right though, and honestly regression to the mean already suggests he won't be an MVP candidate anymore. And yeah, I'm just so disappointed and pissed off with Altuve and all of them. The 2017 Astros were a great story, and attending WS Game 5 was one of my best sports memories until all this came out. It's all kinda ruined now.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
What really pisses me off is how completely unrepentant nearly everyone involved has been. They got off with a slap on the wrist and did the equivalent of, "Neener neener I'm not touching you neener neener!" to fucking everyone, including the fans.
Fuck the Astros, and fuck Manfred for letting them get away with it.
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I agree. You simply can't let this slide like this or you are encouraging it to happen more. A few coaches getting fired but with no kind of permanent lifetime ban on coaching is basically just a normal offseason for most of these teams. Well worth the time/money if this gets you a world series championship. You need to drop the hammer on teams doing this post season bans are the very start of it. I would be for handing the cup to the team that lost as well. If there was only one non cheating team playing in the world series than they get it by default.
What the fuck is wrong with people?
Fandom turns people fucking stupid.
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FTFY
If they put labor solidarity over their public comments and get the penalties waived, well cool! If you're Manfred you've just made yourself look a ton better, while simultaneously shutting up a lot of the players since their union is the one that screwed up the punishment.
If they don't, then hooray! Everyone is happy, except for terrible cheaters.
If they gave individual players immunity for their testimony I get sticking to that, but I feel like vacating the WS title and personal accolades falls outside of that scope.
It comes whether we're playing baseball or not. God bless Bobby Bonilla Day
I prefer my idea of just forfeiting every game against them.
They aren't worth competing against.
I am super happy to have baseball back. I hope it sticks around.
Ichiro had a few of those his rookie year before everyone started playing him in a little closer.
I can’t believe that was almost 20 years ago.
Shit.
That doesn't count. Ichiro started running before he hit the ball. :-)
But in cases where it's a pitch that went a little wild I hope they all happen against anyone who played for the Astros the last few years. Fuck Correa for being a big wet baby, fuck Altuves stolen MVP award and fuck the commissioner until theirs and Boston's most recent titles are stripped.
Come Overwatch with meeeee
atlanta needs to figure this shit out quickly
if the dodgers advance, the winner of the world series will bring a second championship title to their city this year
double championship cities are the most insufferable
see: Boston
pleasepaypreacher.net
But then there's the greater, more-objective part of me which says, "Eh, karma's a bitch." Fact is, regardless of how effective it was, regardless of how talented they are, they fucking cheated and did their best to fuck over the game and it was underhanded and shitty. They earned their time in the doghouse, maybe even for the rest of their careers, and if other teams want to indulge in some schadenfreude, I won't begrudge that. And honestly, after the whole fiasco of trading for Osuna, I'd hardly been watching them play anyway. Just so. Damn. Disappointing. All the way around.
But man. No way Altuve makes it to the HoF now. And he might honestly have gotten there. And he genuinely seems like a decent guy except for the one shitty thing. Sucks.
Tampa is trying for 3 championships, and the last team that came close to that was Cleveland in 2016
Don’t ask me how I determine that
pleasepaypreacher.net
Regarding Altuve for HoF, depends whether you think he's in decline/was only that good because of cheating and won't be anymore. Possible, but hard to say at this stage. His decline hasn't been very pronounced or very long. But, moot point, BBWAA will never let him in now.
Joe Morgan? Not sure I’ve seen that argument
Yeah I swear I thought he used to be one of the people pointed to when talks about only the cream of the crop make the Hall of Fame.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Morgan was arguably the best player on what a lot of boomers regard as the best team they ever saw - that wasn't the 1998 Yankees
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you say this as though A Rod's baggage wouldn't effect how people make such statements
We'll see what happens, but I'd be surprised if Altuve was a top 2b again in his career. He had a down 2019 an even worse 2020 and he'll be 31 in 2021. Just doesn't look good. I was a really big Altuve fan. Love the undersized 2b who just does everything well and even has good power. Cheating made it not fun to be a fan of his anymore though. Obviously can't say for sure, but it's pretty easy to look at some of the cheating years as years he had an inflating ba (especially good on offspeed).
Fuck the Astros, and fuck Manfred for letting them get away with it.