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[Phalla] The Conquest of Deepnest - Host Notes Up

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    BedlamBedlam Registered User regular
    JPants wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    That was brutal. Don't nethead after anesthesia.

    Also AustinP0027 why didn't you put together that when you blocked Infidel there was one fewer mafia kills? :lol: I realized after vote close.

    Unrelated! We attacked Bedlam who had the same ability as the Garpede (survive a lethal attack).
    And I guarded J4P that day, not knowing if he or I was the target since my ability to guard makes me take damage.

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    BluecyanBluecyan Buzz.. Buzz Buzz? BUZZ! Buzz buzz BuzzRegistered User regular
    Infidel wrote: »
    38thDoe wrote: »
    I always try to play these off phone, which leads to me having very little info and staying quite.

    My favorite phone phalla story was when Assuran sent me an order to kill Infidel, but accidentally sent it to Baidol instead.

    Here's me trying to PM @Ardor in 2008 and instead creating a thread titled Ardor. :lol:

    https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/52136/ardor

    Well, that's better than trying to coordinate a blackmail scheme with your mafia partners and sending the plan instead to the target.

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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    edited October 2020
    Bedlam wrote: »
    JPants wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    That was brutal. Don't nethead after anesthesia.

    Also AustinP0027 why didn't you put together that when you blocked Infidel there was one fewer mafia kills? :lol: I realized after vote close.

    Unrelated! We attacked Bedlam who had the same ability as the Garpede (survive a lethal attack).
    And I guarded J4P that day, not knowing if he or I was the target since my ability to guard makes me take damage.

    Vote goes first!
    Always!

    discrider on
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    ArdorArdor Registered User regular
    Bluecyan wrote: »
    Infidel wrote: »
    38thDoe wrote: »
    I always try to play these off phone, which leads to me having very little info and staying quite.

    My favorite phone phalla story was when Assuran sent me an order to kill Infidel, but accidentally sent it to Baidol instead.

    Here's me trying to PM @Ardor in 2008 and instead creating a thread titled Ardor. :lol:

    https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/52136/ardor

    Well, that's better than trying to coordinate a blackmail scheme with your mafia partners and sending the plan instead to the target.

    12 years later and this is the first I’ve heard of this!

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    WildcatWildcat Registered User regular
    I'll have to go back and read through the last few pages, but: thanks for hosting this, @38thDoe. I enjoyed the setting, and hey, it made me start playing Hollow Knight for the first time ever!

    That said, I knew when four people attacked me on Night 1 that I wasn't going to be around for most of it, so I'm aware I probably put minimal effort in on Day 2, so sorry for that.

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    38thDoe38thDoe lets never be stupid again wait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered User regular
    discrider wrote: »
    Okay.
    So why were Medics so bad?
    Bluecyan wrote: »
    Liked: hollow knight stuff, was a really neat story. Also, being the least important of roles it was still nice to have night actions. Something to do/think about even if ultimately it doesn't really matter.

    Looking at some of the numbers I have to wonder if the best village play was to just defend, not form kill squads. We had some bad luck with our squads this game but even with good luck the mafia have on average a LOT more life than the average villager. Defending, village prevents some damage so they stay alive longer and doesn't risk killing more village off, which is much more likely than mafia.

    I trust the numbers might work out theoritcally, but with the system, the mafia gets a very large information disparity right from the gitgo, knowing several village stats and each others. Plus, trying to coordinate stuff as village is a hard hill to climb.

    Thanks for running!

    So Bedlam had 200 health and an ability that if he was above 25 health he could not be killed except by the vote. If the medics healed for 9 instead of 8 then Bedlam could have been an immortal prince.


    I think the finding on battle games is that if the village attacks are coordinated they can be very powerful. If everyone is randomly firing it will usually hurt the village more than it helps them. It has been a while since we have had one though.

    38thDoE on steam
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    davidsdurionsdavidsdurions Your Trusty Meatshield Panhandle NebraskaRegistered User regular
    So how did the village strike team assemble? And why wasn’t I invited? And who let kime in??

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    BluecyanBluecyan Buzz.. Buzz Buzz? BUZZ! Buzz buzz BuzzRegistered User regular
    38thDoe wrote: »
    discrider wrote: »
    Okay.
    So why were Medics so bad?
    Bluecyan wrote: »
    Liked: hollow knight stuff, was a really neat story. Also, being the least important of roles it was still nice to have night actions. Something to do/think about even if ultimately it doesn't really matter.

    Looking at some of the numbers I have to wonder if the best village play was to just defend, not form kill squads. We had some bad luck with our squads this game but even with good luck the mafia have on average a LOT more life than the average villager. Defending, village prevents some damage so they stay alive longer and doesn't risk killing more village off, which is much more likely than mafia.

    I trust the numbers might work out theoritcally, but with the system, the mafia gets a very large information disparity right from the gitgo, knowing several village stats and each others. Plus, trying to coordinate stuff as village is a hard hill to climb.

    Thanks for running!

    So Bedlam had 200 health and an ability that if he was above 25 health he could not be killed except by the vote. If the medics healed for 9 instead of 8 then Bedlam could have been an immortal prince.


    I think the finding on battle games is that if the village attacks are coordinated they can be very powerful. If everyone is randomly firing it will usually hurt the village more than it helps them. It has been a while since we have had one though.

    Mafia had 1/5 of their members with 200 hp and the ability to guard their weak member. Village had one among about 20, also plenty more vulnerable 30 hp targets. Main issue I saw, a normal group of 5 wouldn't be able to take down a mafia in one night (pressuming multupede protects the bully) but it would be quite likely for the mafia to coordinate a kill each night. The village as a whole could do much more, but will be mostly firing randomly, with a very slight bias for mafia.

    Re: medics, having to get four specific people to coordinate to keep one of them alive forever for one specific method of death doesn't strike me as a major concern. Besides, the mafia could just use their kill on bedlam and that's the end, and the mafia already knows you have created huge HP sponges. That just sounds like a complicated battle only guard at that point.

    I haven't run any other battle game (outside of the phalla tournament but that's a different beast since no village/mafia) so I don't have much to compare it to. Just from the numbers I have seen, normal village would have been better just defending and ignoring that part of the game. Trying to get a good kill squad vetted and organized is hard, outside of random chance getting a group in the first few nights by picking names out of a hat. And it needed to happen early due to the amount of kills making it a rather short game.

    Not saying the village didn't have a chance, they did, but I think it was stacked against them and required luck in the first couple of days to have much of a shot. The mafia played well: controlled the main thread, infiltrated village networks and made very good use of their abilities. We got trounced because they played well. Short games tend to favor mafia, and this, with all of the possible nightly deaths, was definitely on the short side.

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    38thDoe38thDoe lets never be stupid again wait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered User regular
    Re: medics, having to get four specific people to coordinate to keep one of them alive forever for one specific method of death doesn't strike me as a major concern. Besides, the mafia could just use their kill on bedlam and that's the end, and the mafia already knows you have created huge HP sponges. That just sounds like a complicated battle only guard at that point.

    Mafia kill was not an absolute kill though, it did 200 damage so Bedlam would have and did survive it. They hit Bedlam with it on the day their kill didn't kill. He survived with 1 hp. Actually he could have been immortal. Interesting.
    Not saying the village didn't have a chance, they did, but I think it was stacked against them and required luck in the first couple of days to have much of a shot. Short games tend to favor mafia, and this, with all of the possible nightly deaths, was definitely on the short side.

    I won't claim to be great at balance. I'll say that if the village guarded every night if they didn't have a good target the mafia would likely only have 1.25 kill per night. (6 out of 21 were able to be killed with mafia attacks through guards)

    38thDoE on steam
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    jdarksunjdarksun Struggler VARegistered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    No killsquads, or more killsquads? But having only 1, and it was infiltrated by the mafia (and then SK!), meant that the village's "kill squads" were essentially just an extra mafia kill.
    Kill squads are never good for the village.

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    AustinP0027AustinP0027 Registered User regular
    But they are so much fun!

    Next game, let's all join up to killsquad Kime. It's not a Day 1 vote, so we're switching it up!

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    38thDoe38thDoe lets never be stupid again wait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    No killsquads, or more killsquads? But having only 1, and it was infiltrated by the mafia (and then SK!), meant that the village's "kill squads" were essentially just an extra mafia kill.
    Kill squads are never good for the village.

    Then there is this ridiculous 12 person kill squad...
    blahmcblah wrote: »
    In Memoriam - The Saber Squad:

    FullSaberSquad-Dead_zps7a89bc23.png

    We were (incredibly) 100% village, and our aim was perfect, targeting only mafia members - two of whom we eliminated with extreme prejudice. While we were all eventually hunted down and killed, our efforts shall never be forgotten in the Heavenly City.

    *
    AWOL, deservedly lynched

    38thDoE on steam
    🦀🦑🦀🦑🦀🦑🦀🦑🦀🦑🦀🦑🦀
    
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    BedlamBedlam Registered User regular
    photobucket is the worst player

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    jdarksunjdarksun Struggler VARegistered User regular
    38thDoe wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    No killsquads, or more killsquads? But having only 1, and it was infiltrated by the mafia (and then SK!), meant that the village's "kill squads" were essentially just an extra mafia kill.
    Kill squads are never good for the village.

    Then there is this ridiculous 12 person kill squad...
    blahmcblah wrote: »
    In Memoriam - The Saber Squad:

    FullSaberSquad-Dead_zps7a89bc23.png

    We were (incredibly) 100% village, and our aim was perfect, targeting only mafia members - two of whom we eliminated with extreme prejudice. While we were all eventually hunted down and killed, our efforts shall never be forgotten in the Heavenly City.

    *
    AWOL, deservedly lynched
    That was seven years ago, might be proving the point. :lol:

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    38thDoe38thDoe lets never be stupid again wait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered User regular
    edited October 2020
    INANTP used the term sus so I thought it was more recent...

    Wow, reading through Saber confirms it was 14 people and Phyphor replies it was a 4% chance that no mafia were infiltrating.

    38thDoe on
    38thDoE on steam
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    InvictusInvictus Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »
    38thDoe wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    No killsquads, or more killsquads? But having only 1, and it was infiltrated by the mafia (and then SK!), meant that the village's "kill squads" were essentially just an extra mafia kill.
    Kill squads are never good for the village.

    Then there is this ridiculous 12 person kill squad...
    blahmcblah wrote: »
    In Memoriam - The Saber Squad:

    FullSaberSquad-Dead_zps7a89bc23.png

    We were (incredibly) 100% village, and our aim was perfect, targeting only mafia members - two of whom we eliminated with extreme prejudice. While we were all eventually hunted down and killed, our efforts shall never be forgotten in the Heavenly City.

    *
    AWOL, deservedly lynched
    That was seven years ago, might be proving the point. :lol:

    Uh, wow, I guess I have been playing phalla for seven years?

    Generalísimo de Fuerzas Armadas de la República Argentina
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    InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    Invictus wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    38thDoe wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    No killsquads, or more killsquads? But having only 1, and it was infiltrated by the mafia (and then SK!), meant that the village's "kill squads" were essentially just an extra mafia kill.
    Kill squads are never good for the village.

    Then there is this ridiculous 12 person kill squad...
    blahmcblah wrote: »
    In Memoriam - The Saber Squad:

    FullSaberSquad-Dead_zps7a89bc23.png

    We were (incredibly) 100% village, and our aim was perfect, targeting only mafia members - two of whom we eliminated with extreme prejudice. While we were all eventually hunted down and killed, our efforts shall never be forgotten in the Heavenly City.

    *
    AWOL, deservedly lynched
    That was seven years ago, might be proving the point. :lol:

    Uh, wow, I guess I have been playing phalla for seven years?

    "When are you going to change your avatar?" :wink:

    OrokosPA.png
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    jdarksunjdarksun Struggler VARegistered User regular
    Invictus wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    38thDoe wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    No killsquads, or more killsquads? But having only 1, and it was infiltrated by the mafia (and then SK!), meant that the village's "kill squads" were essentially just an extra mafia kill.
    Kill squads are never good for the village.

    Then there is this ridiculous 12 person kill squad...
    blahmcblah wrote: »
    In Memoriam - The Saber Squad:

    FullSaberSquad-Dead_zps7a89bc23.png

    We were (incredibly) 100% village, and our aim was perfect, targeting only mafia members - two of whom we eliminated with extreme prejudice. While we were all eventually hunted down and killed, our efforts shall never be forgotten in the Heavenly City.

    *
    AWOL, deservedly lynched
    That was seven years ago, might be proving the point. :lol:

    Uh, wow, I guess I have been playing phalla for seven years?
    Oh, hey, happy fourteenth birthday to the first (?) "Phalla", Wangshire II whose signups went up on October 11, 2006.

    (note that this is before my account got accidentally flagged as a spammer and all my posts were deleted, so the thread is weird and broken)

    Note that Bedlam is in those signups too!

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    InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    Pre-Vanilla phallas look so bad now.

    OrokosPA.png
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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    38thDoe wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    No killsquads, or more killsquads? But having only 1, and it was infiltrated by the mafia (and then SK!), meant that the village's "kill squads" were essentially just an extra mafia kill.
    Kill squads are never good for the village.

    Then there is this ridiculous 12 person kill squad...
    blahmcblah wrote: »
    In Memoriam - The Saber Squad:

    FullSaberSquad-Dead_zps7a89bc23.png

    We were (incredibly) 100% village, and our aim was perfect, targeting only mafia members - two of whom we eliminated with extreme prejudice. While we were all eventually hunted down and killed, our efforts shall never be forgotten in the Heavenly City.

    *
    AWOL, deservedly lynched

    Almost won that, my first phalla.

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    AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    discrider wrote: »
    38thDoe wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    No killsquads, or more killsquads? But having only 1, and it was infiltrated by the mafia (and then SK!), meant that the village's "kill squads" were essentially just an extra mafia kill.
    Kill squads are never good for the village.

    Then there is this ridiculous 12 person kill squad...
    blahmcblah wrote: »
    In Memoriam - The Saber Squad:

    FullSaberSquad-Dead_zps7a89bc23.png

    We were (incredibly) 100% village, and our aim was perfect, targeting only mafia members - two of whom we eliminated with extreme prejudice. While we were all eventually hunted down and killed, our efforts shall never be forgotten in the Heavenly City.

    *
    AWOL, deservedly lynched

    Almost won that, my first phalla.

    Interestingly, I think that might be the game where Drez coined m-vibe:
    Drez wrote: »
    m-vibe m-vibe m-vibe m-vibe m-vibe m-vibe m-vibe

    Too bad I couldn't bonk Locus on the way out.

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    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    edited October 2020
    Infidel wrote: »
    Pre-Vanilla phallas look so bad now.

    I mean, current vanilla phallas lack a certain pizaz, with the cut down version of bbcode we have.

    What really makes me feel old is that I think the 7-years-ago phalla was after my time

    Spoit on
    steam_sig.png
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    TehSpectreTehSpectre Registered User regular
    Invictus wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    38thDoe wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    No killsquads, or more killsquads? But having only 1, and it was infiltrated by the mafia (and then SK!), meant that the village's "kill squads" were essentially just an extra mafia kill.
    Kill squads are never good for the village.

    Then there is this ridiculous 12 person kill squad...
    blahmcblah wrote: »
    In Memoriam - The Saber Squad:

    FullSaberSquad-Dead_zps7a89bc23.png

    We were (incredibly) 100% village, and our aim was perfect, targeting only mafia members - two of whom we eliminated with extreme prejudice. While we were all eventually hunted down and killed, our efforts shall never be forgotten in the Heavenly City.

    *
    AWOL, deservedly lynched
    That was seven years ago, might be proving the point. :lol:

    Uh, wow, I guess I have been playing phalla for seven years?
    RespectfulFragrantBabirusa-size_restricted.gif

    9u72nmv0y64e.jpg
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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Invictus wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    38thDoe wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    No killsquads, or more killsquads? But having only 1, and it was infiltrated by the mafia (and then SK!), meant that the village's "kill squads" were essentially just an extra mafia kill.
    Kill squads are never good for the village.

    Then there is this ridiculous 12 person kill squad...
    blahmcblah wrote: »
    In Memoriam - The Saber Squad:

    FullSaberSquad-Dead_zps7a89bc23.png

    We were (incredibly) 100% village, and our aim was perfect, targeting only mafia members - two of whom we eliminated with extreme prejudice. While we were all eventually hunted down and killed, our efforts shall never be forgotten in the Heavenly City.

    *
    AWOL, deservedly lynched
    That was seven years ago, might be proving the point. :lol:

    Uh, wow, I guess I have been playing phalla for seven years?

    I wish I'd been playing phalla for seven years.
    Probably been phone posting for five now though :(

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    LocusLocus Trust Me The seaRegistered User regular
    Auralynx wrote: »
    discrider wrote: »
    38thDoe wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    No killsquads, or more killsquads? But having only 1, and it was infiltrated by the mafia (and then SK!), meant that the village's "kill squads" were essentially just an extra mafia kill.
    Kill squads are never good for the village.

    Then there is this ridiculous 12 person kill squad...
    blahmcblah wrote: »
    In Memoriam - The Saber Squad:

    FullSaberSquad-Dead_zps7a89bc23.png

    We were (incredibly) 100% village, and our aim was perfect, targeting only mafia members - two of whom we eliminated with extreme prejudice. While we were all eventually hunted down and killed, our efforts shall never be forgotten in the Heavenly City.

    *
    AWOL, deservedly lynched

    Almost won that, my first phalla.

    Interestingly, I think that might be the game where Drez coined m-vibe:
    Drez wrote: »
    m-vibe m-vibe m-vibe m-vibe m-vibe m-vibe m-vibe

    Too bad I couldn't bonk Locus on the way out.
    I have no memory of this game at all. But I guess I was mafia and made it to the second to last day? That must have been back when my #1 phalla skill was "flying under the radar."

    Guess I'll have to give Drez a bonk whenever they next play with us.

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    BedlamBedlam Registered User regular
    edited October 2020
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Oh, hey, happy fourteenth birthday to the first (?) "Phalla", Wangshire II whose signups went up on October 11, 2006.

    (note that this is before my account got accidentally flagged as a spammer and all my posts were deleted, so the thread is weird and broken)

    Note that Bedlam is in those signups too!
    1) I dont think that was the first game on the forums. I think it started in D&D before that. I do know that Auroduc started the thread in G&T and it was moved to Critical Failures (or was it called "Of Dice and Men" back then?)

    2) that wasnt even the first CF game because Auroduc got banned and came back with an attitude about it. So yeah I did sign up and was excited but then I started a new job with weird hours and dropped. Having people sign up with themed avatars was pretty cool tho.

    3) Fourteen...

    Gm3n0F1.gif

    Bedlam on
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    HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    So why did the village kill squad go after me day 1? Was there any reasoning, or just a d30 roll?

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    WildcatWildcat Registered User regular
    Wait, didn't they go after me Day 1? Or were all those hits on me just random people being terrible?

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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    The mafia attacked Wildcat.

    The "village" punch group hit Heffling because the other tentative target was my mafia-buddy Infidel, so I suggested Heffling instead. It was honestly mostly random, yeah. Not quite d30, but someone that wasn't mafia and wasn't in our kill group and wasn't standing out in a way that made you seem important.

    I did also post this in our discord
    note to self: apologize for killing Heffling after. Don't like day-one'ing people multiple times in a row, but games are so rare I don't remember who died before

    Apologies!

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
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    davidsdurionsdavidsdurions Your Trusty Meatshield Panhandle NebraskaRegistered User regular
    So who let kime into the village strike group???????????

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    AustinP0027AustinP0027 Registered User regular
    That was me I think. I randomly messages Kime and Obi at the same time, then when Obi suggested forming a hit squad, pulled them together

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    davidsdurionsdavidsdurions Your Trusty Meatshield Panhandle NebraskaRegistered User regular
    How dare you not invite me. :razz:

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