So I guess Newegg landed on "put a notice on almost all our 3080 combos saying you can't return items individually", eh? Suppose I've purchased the last stuff I'll ever purchase from Newegg. Thanks for the SL120 fans, guys, it's been a fun ride.
Surprising absolutely nobody, despite the many warnings that NewEgg is now no longer allowing single returns of combo items, the 6800 combos posted sold instantly, because the scalpers' margins more than make up for the irritation (and, I assume, a number of people grabbed them not realizing the change in policy).
I mean GN released a video review yesterday of CP2077 performance across all the cards, RTX on and off, and frankly most of the review was with RTX off, so it raises some questions of just how much HUB ignores RTX performance.
Looking at HUB's CP2077 performance review, at a glance it doesn't look like they benchmarked RTX performance at all. I'm just going off of the jumps in the video, please correct me if I'm wrong.
This is correct, they don't do RT or DLSS often/at all because it's not "equal" with AMD
I think it's fairly reasonable for a company that's providing them with thousands of dollars of hardware for free to ask they actually benchmark what the hardware was built for.
Well that's extremely stupid, these are real features that exist and which people use, they can't just be ignored to achieve some kind of fake parity.
HUB seems to think so.
I stopped watching them a little bit ago because they started whining about their viewers wanting to at least SEE DLSS 2.0 numbers, and dude steadfastly refused. Which is nuts because it's a hardware feature!
They don't do AMD's direct access memory either!
whyyyyyyy
Refusal to move on from raster-only benchmarks, which are starting down the same path single-core CPU performance metrics have gone.
It's the children who are yadda yadda
A part of me is sympathetic to trying to stick to apples to apples raster comparisons. I think it's wrong. But I'm sympathetic. The feature sets of AMD and Nvidia cards are so divergent at this point, the matrix of benchmarks you need to run to get a comprehensive overview of their capabilities is really exploding in complexity. RTX on/off, DLSS on/off, Rage Mode on/off, SAM on/off. Games which are known to favor AMD, games which are known to favor Nvidia. Games which seemingly explicitly disfavor AMD more so than others (like Minecraft RTX).
I haven't seen the hardware reviewers job look this complicated in a long, long ass time. Possibly not since the mid 90's when 3D was new, and seemingly every card has their own API with wildly different support.
Yeah but they're not doing it because it's too complex, which is 100% fair (and why even in-depth sites like GN only have a few total benchmarks)
They're not doing it because they think it's unfair
That is actually pretty much a mischaracterization by you. HUB aren't prioritizing raytracing/dlss testing in initial reviews because the number of games that support them are relatively small still and the number of people with cards that can use those features right now is also small.
Also DLSS quality depending on mode used isn't a cut and dry comparison of like per like at a resolution which further complicates things.
That said there is a video coming tomorrow on DLSS and Raytracing performance from HUB about Cyberpunk 2077...
Hardware Unboxed in my opinion is doing the best computer hardware technology review work among YouTubers right now and their coverage of the 3080 series has been what made me want and waste a bunch of time to get one and its really stupid of Nvidia to take them off the review sample list.
I don't always agree with their conclusions but they are presenting the data objectively in a fashion that lets me come to my own conclusions based upon my own biases and budget and wants.
I mean, nah.
They've said they only want apples to apples testing of video cards, and you're saying the exact same thing they're saying:
Also DLSS quality depending on mode used isn't a cut and dry comparison of like per like at a resolution which further complicates things.
Easy fix. Do them all, have a screenshot of the worst feathering, call it a review. Let your users decide instead of deciding for them what they should care about. Or do one setting, allowing your viewers to extrapolate how that scales. Not doing it because it's complicated is kind of silly.
And it's great they have DLSS and RT in a CP video, but they should have them in all of their GPU reviews because it's tech that's going to be around from now on, and it's a part of why people are spending their money.
They're flagship features, they're in demand as has been pretty readily proven, and if I'm going to watch a tech reviewer it's not gonna be some dude with his head up his ass about new tech, instead opting to play Mr. Gatekeeper McPurityTest.
And refusing to test my hardware's flagship features because of arbitrary standards would get you yanked off my freebie list as well.
Lol Easy fix... increase your workload by 6x for minimal gain. So simple.
Edit: 4 modes of DLSS with and without RT would be 8x actually.
HWU has said numerous times they're not doing it because they think its irrelevant with regards to video cards and say that only raster counts, so
They've never said it was a workload they can't handle. They don't want to do it in GPU reviews but just single titles.
Well shit it looks like I finally managed to land a 3070 order...which is good because my EVGA queue probably isn't up until like end of January. Now...do I have the resolve to stop playing Cyberpunk and wait a few weeks...?
I wonder how long HWU would have held off on including 3d performance when comparing GPU's back in the day?
I think they can do whatever they want honestly but I think they're 100% in the wrong here to not talk about a feature that EVERYONE will be or has included in their current and upcoming products.
I've been subscribed to HWU for over a year and I like both the guys and their content but it's been clear the entire time they think RTX isn't worth it and that's an editorial decision. One that has now bitten them in the ass.
I wonder how long HWU would have held off on including 3d performance when comparing GPU's back in the day?
I think they can do whatever they want honestly but I think they're 100% in the wrong here to not talk about a feature that EVERYONE will be or has included in their current and upcoming products.
I've been subscribed to HWU for over a year and I like both the guys and their content but it's been clear the entire time they think RTX isn't worth it and that's an editorial decision. One that has now bitten them in the ass.
The WAN show painted a much different picture tonight - HWU did a full RTX/DLSS video, has apparently called DLSS a "default option" that should always be turned on, and included DLSS #'s in their AMD reviews for comparison. Linus was pissed in a way I have not seen before at Nvidias actions.
Also Nvidia literally has as of the time of this post, a quote from HWU on their fucking DLSS page promoting it in their slider.
So with what seems to be the imminent arrival of my myriad components, my mind is turning to the onerous task of the dreaded Windows reinstall.
I'm (somewhat unironically) what you'd call a power user, so have a whole heap of things installed on windows.
Does anyone know of any tools to make the transition easier? I know there are install package thingies out there that allow all-in-one installation. But is there anything to collate and corale my various apps and services I have installed into them?
Or perhaps Windows isn't so fussy about motherboard swaps these days, wishful thinking I suppose...
I wonder how long HWU would have held off on including 3d performance when comparing GPU's back in the day?
I think they can do whatever they want honestly but I think they're 100% in the wrong here to not talk about a feature that EVERYONE will be or has included in their current and upcoming products.
I've been subscribed to HWU for over a year and I like both the guys and their content but it's been clear the entire time they think RTX isn't worth it and that's an editorial decision. One that has now bitten them in the ass.
The WAN show painted a much different picture tonight - HWU did a full RTX/DLSS video, has apparently called DLSS a "default option" that should always be turned on, and included DLSS #'s in their AMD reviews for comparison. Linus was pissed in a way I have not seen before at Nvidias actions.
Also Nvidia literally has as of the time of this post, a quote from HWU on their fucking DLSS page promoting it in their slider.
The amount of righteous anger in that video was just utterly astounding, holy shit. The man was beyond angry.
I wonder how long HWU would have held off on including 3d performance when comparing GPU's back in the day?
I think they can do whatever they want honestly but I think they're 100% in the wrong here to not talk about a feature that EVERYONE will be or has included in their current and upcoming products.
I've been subscribed to HWU for over a year and I like both the guys and their content but it's been clear the entire time they think RTX isn't worth it and that's an editorial decision. One that has now bitten them in the ass.
The WAN show painted a much different picture tonight - HWU did a full RTX/DLSS video, has apparently called DLSS a "default option" that should always be turned on, and included DLSS #'s in their AMD reviews for comparison. Linus was pissed in a way I have not seen before at Nvidias actions.
Also Nvidia literally has as of the time of this post, a quote from HWU on their fucking DLSS page promoting it in their slider.
The amount of righteous anger in that video was just utterly astounding, holy shit. The man was beyond angry.
It is sort of impressive how massively Nvidia managed to shit the bed on this one. And what is even their play here?
Making an example out of a review outlet that has been lukewarm about raytracing as a message to all the others?
The tone deaf email now has the review industry circling the wagons as you just threatened everything from their bottom line to their personal integrity and you look like assholes. It was also incompetently executed with things like the HWU stuff still on up on the website as well as being done within a window where HWU is easily able to show fairness by making content about these features using Cyberpunk 2077 as a backdrop.
The idea that came up on the WAN show of this being personal might make more sense, if only because of how much of a burning trash fire this is.
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
So with what seems to be the imminent arrival of my myriad components, my mind is turning to the onerous task of the dreaded Windows reinstall.
I'm (somewhat unironically) what you'd call a power user, so have a whole heap of things installed on windows.
Does anyone know of any tools to make the transition easier? I know there are install package thingies out there that allow all-in-one installation. But is there anything to collate and corale my various apps and services I have installed into them?
Or perhaps Windows isn't so fussy about motherboard swaps these days, wishful thinking I suppose...
Windows hasn't been fussy about motherboard swaps since Windows 7, maybe earlier.
I've gone from AMD to Intel with nary a hiccup other than motherboard monitoring applications no longer working because it's the wrong motherboard, so I had to remove them from autostart.
It is sort of impressive how massively Nvidia managed to shit the bed on this one. And what is even their play here?
Making an example out of a review outlet that has been lukewarm about raytracing as a message to all the others?
The tone deaf email now has the review industry circling the wagons as you just threatened everything from their bottom line to their personal integrity and you look like assholes. It was also incompetently executed with things like the HWU stuff still on up on the website as well as being done within a window where HWU is easily able to show fairness by making content about these features using Cyberpunk 2077 as a backdrop.
The idea that came up on the WAN show of this being personal might make more sense, if only because of how much of a burning trash fire this is.
If Nvidia's plan was to get tech review sites to form some kind of professional assocation to protect their interests, then they've make an incredible out of the gate start towards achieving their goal.
If their plan was to give Hardware Unboxed an incredible Christmas present of good publicity, then it has gone brilliantly.
So, my mind is a little blurry from last night when I watched the WAN show, but I wanna kinda bullet point what Linus had to say, because he brought up several points I hadn't heard expressed thus far in the discussion:
HUB absolutely does do benchmarking for DLSS and RT. To the point where they've called DLSS a "default" option you should just always have on, and Nvidia has HUB's words as the very first promotional quote on their DLSS webpage (Linus showed us after his rant). For CP2077, for example, they do not benchmark RT/DLSS in their main review, but they released a separate video dedicated to those features. That's been their approach thus far, is to treat them as features not everyone has access to or is interested in yet, so here's the main review without them, and here's another review with them.
Being told you can get AIB cards for your reviews is a much bigger slap in the face than people realize. AIB cards are often embargoed so you're basically telling HUB hey sorry you're not one of our independent reviewers anymore. Not being given a free sample also means you're not going to get the card before everyone else does, oh hey also good luck against the scalper bots. Can't wait to see your review 3 months down the road.
Techtubers definitely are hearing a dog whistle from this entire thing, from Nvidia, and it's not a good one. Linus basically sees this as an attack on the media, and that if they don't keep pushing RT reviews, get ready for the hammer. He has taken this very personally.
It fans the flames of the Team Red vs Team Green stupid goddamn horseshit, which Linus has said very emphatically he fucking hates and is dumb. Now HUB is eternally painted as a Team Red review site, which is flatly untrue, and now sites like LTT and GN are going to be painted as Team Green, which is something that the fanboys have been waiting forever to sink their teeth into, and now they have ammunition. This is something Linus was especially furious about, was that this action will have significant blowback on the rest of them, and reduce their credibility as impartial reviewers now.
While Linus does believe that RT is the future of gaming, and that DLSS (2.0) is an excellent feature, he also doesn't disagree with HUB's stance that they are features that you can only enable in 15 games right now, and that while some people want to know what that performance looks like, others don't. So they do separate review videos for those things currently.
Feel free to add to the list because I'm sure I'm forgetting a lot. He ranted for a full 40 fucking minutes about it and he was dropping nukes constantly. I think he literally said "Fuck you Nvidia" at one point and is explicitly calling out the PR manager who sent the email to HUB, because he felt the language used in their email to HUB was so out of character that he legitimately doubts the PR manager actually wrote it.
The email is a doozy, by the way. It sounds 75% like an ad and 25% passive aggressive bullshit.
Don't forget the "Nice review site you have there, gosh it would be a shame if something were to happen to it. Call us if you feel like... being sensible" angle that Linus also pointed out.
Not to mention the oh-so-casual mention of the other ways that Nvidia could fuck HUB still further, like eg: witholding pre-release software and documentation support.
The one thing people here saying HUB is getting what it deserves, they've said a few times now they were making apples to apples comparisons since the features from AMD aren't out yet. They were going to do DLSS vs AMD's implementation once it exists. Since it doesn't, it's very one sided and putting up a graph where AMD is showing all 0's simply, and then they'd get accused of being biased against AMD. Also, there's stuff like the Quake 2 RTX is Nvidia only, and there might be one or two more like that, where people will demand angrily to see that graph where no comparison can be made since AMD is locked out of even trying to compete even though we all know their version will be worse.
Also as I type this, I'm wastching the HUB cyberpunk RTX review and for all the people giving them trouble for saying 8GB isn't enough, at 1440p the 3070 falls behind 2080 Ti specifically because the RTX bells and whistles use enough VRAM at the Ultra graphics preset and just reflections on that 8 isn't enough to hit 60FPS. The extra 3GB from the 2080 Ti actually does make a difference, and as you add more shiny stuff it just gets worse, and this is only 1440p.
I still don't have enough faith in the maturity of AMD's drivers to say they can be competitive with Nvidia cards.
Also I believe Nvidia tried to pull this shit with Jay about......3? years ago (maybe longer?) with similar fallout. Once the internet world was set aflame, things died out in like 3 months.
So, my mind is a little blurry from last night when I watched the WAN show, but I wanna kinda bullet point what Linus had to say, because he brought up several points I hadn't heard expressed thus far in the discussion:
HUB absolutely does do benchmarking for DLSS and RT. To the point where they've called DLSS a "default" option you should just always have on, and Nvidia has HUB's words as the very first promotional quote on their DLSS webpage (Linus showed us after his rant). For CP2077, for example, they do not benchmark RT/DLSS in their main review, but they released a separate video dedicated to those features. That's been their approach thus far, is to treat them as features not everyone has access to or is interested in yet, so here's the main review without them, and here's another review with them.
Being told you can get AIB cards for your reviews is a much bigger slap in the face than people realize. AIB cards are often embargoed so you're basically telling HUB hey sorry you're not one of our independent reviewers anymore. Not being given a free sample also means you're not going to get the card before everyone else does, oh hey also good luck against the scalper bots. Can't wait to see your review 3 months down the road.
Techtubers definitely are hearing a dog whistle from this entire thing, from Nvidia, and it's not a good one. Linus basically sees this as an attack on the media, and that if they don't keep pushing RT reviews, get ready for the hammer. He has taken this very personally.
It fans the flames of the Team Red vs Team Green stupid goddamn horseshit, which Linus has said very emphatically he fucking hates and is dumb. Now HUB is eternally painted as a Team Red review site, which is flatly untrue, and now sites like LTT and GN are going to be painted as Team Green, which is something that the fanboys have been waiting forever to sink their teeth into, and now they have ammunition. This is something Linus was especially furious about, was that this action will have significant blowback on the rest of them, and reduce their credibility as impartial reviewers now.
While Linus does believe that RT is the future of gaming, and that DLSS (2.0) is an excellent feature, he also doesn't disagree with HUB's stance that they are features that you can only enable in 15 games right now, and that while some people want to know what that performance looks like, others don't. So they do separate review videos for those things currently.
Feel free to add to the list because I'm sure I'm forgetting a lot. He ranted for a full 40 fucking minutes about it and he was dropping nukes constantly. I think he literally said "Fuck you Nvidia" at one point and is explicitly calling out the PR manager who sent the email to HUB, because he felt the language used in their email to HUB was so out of character that he legitimately doubts the PR manager actually wrote it.
The email is a doozy, by the way. It sounds 75% like an ad and 25% passive aggressive bullshit.
This is the part I take the most exception to. I listened to most of Linus's ranting and raving, and I think his justification of HUB's editorial position was true when the RTX 2000 series launched. I think it's indefensible when AMD and Nvidia and Microsoft and Sony all have raytracing in their hardware, and every major engine has it integrated. And while not every game supports raytracing, it's misleading to say "Only 15 games support it". You have to look at the games! I mean, three off the top of my head that are a major fucking deal are Minecraft, Fortnite and Cyberpunk 2077. I'd say it's safe to assume probably 80% of gamers play at least one of those.
And it's like, I've seen this song and dance before. Once upon a time Nvidia supported 32bit color and 3Dfx didn't. And there was a performance penalty associated with, but it looked gorgeous. Reviewers didn't sit around going "Oh, the performance penalty for 32bit color isn't worth it, and not everyone supports it, so we aren't going to cover it in our main review" And again with anti-aliasing. And again with with assorted shader effects. There have always been image quality technologies that come along that impose a performance penalty that not every card supports. I have never seen reviewers just straight up leave covering them out of the main review.
Just like people think nvidia is being smarmy acting like HUB never talks about DLSS or RTX, I think HUB is being smarmy pointing to this entirely different video he did about it. For all the arguments Linus made during his rant about how most video reviews for hardware get the bulk of their views in the first 24 hours, and it's a hot market, and that by making HUB wait on partner hardware it cuts him out of the market? Well all those arguments also apply to the reduced visibility of the second DLSS/RTX video HUB put up after the main review.
I don't think nvidia did themselves any favors with how thick they lay it on in their letter. But I'm not team HUB either, and IMHO, if a reviewer is not covering key features of your hardware in their main review, they aren't worth sending hardware to.
I never watched hub and outright avoided then after some... Questionable responses in their Q&As about vram, which were flat out not true under a modicum of testing.
But Nvidia's letter was out of line, especially the suggestion that they could get it back by 'correcting' their coverage. Either cut them off cleanly or not, don't try to extort a certain narrative
So with what seems to be the imminent arrival of my myriad components, my mind is turning to the onerous task of the dreaded Windows reinstall.
I'm (somewhat unironically) what you'd call a power user, so have a whole heap of things installed on windows.
Does anyone know of any tools to make the transition easier? I know there are install package thingies out there that allow all-in-one installation. But is there anything to collate and corale my various apps and services I have installed into them?
Or perhaps Windows isn't so fussy about motherboard swaps these days, wishful thinking I suppose...
Windows hasn't been fussy about motherboard swaps since Windows 7, maybe earlier.
I've gone from AMD to Intel with nary a hiccup other than motherboard monitoring applications no longer working because it's the wrong motherboard, so I had to remove them from autostart.
Woohoo, that is the answer I was not expecting, but very much hoping to hear!
Arctic Liquid Freezer II 240 arrived today. 2 deliveries down, 2 more to go!
I'm surprised there's anyone trying to defend Nvidia literally strong arming smaller channels into giving them more favorable reviews. It's anti-consumer, it's gross, and makes the community worse as a result.
Consumers who don't want or don't care about ray tracing are served well by seeing apples to apples comparisons of normal rasterization. That is useful to have in the ecosystem even if it's not personally useful to me. Nvidia effectively saying "Do your reviews this way or we'll cut you off" is pretty much indefensible. I'm kind of shocked at people saying HUB had it coming. Like what?
I never watched hub and outright avoided then after some... Questionable responses in their Q&As about vram, which were flat out not true under a modicum of testing.
But Nvidia's letter was out of line, especially the suggestion that they could get it back by 'correcting' their coverage. Either cut them off cleanly or not, don't try to extort a certain narrative
This is where I'm at. I don't like HUB's GPU review methodology, I think they have in the past shown quite a bit of AMD bias...but they aren't doing anything wrong, they aren't putting out untrue statements, they are doing reviews the way they want to. They have every right to do that and Nvidia is way out of line here.
I'm surprised there's anyone trying to defend Nvidia literally strong arming smaller channels into giving them more favorable reviews. It's anti-consumer, it's gross, and makes the community worse as a result.
Consumers who don't want or don't care about ray tracing are served well by seeing apples to apples comparisons of normal rasterization. That is useful to have in the ecosystem even if it's not personally useful to me. Nvidia effectively saying "Do your reviews this way or we'll cut you off" is pretty much indefensible. I'm kind of shocked at people saying HUB had it coming. Like what?
You may be shocked but that’s because it’s a straw man? People are talking about Nvidia being shitty, or not about it much at all.
Talking about what should be conveyed to consumers and why is separate from that and isn’t a defense of some Nvidia PR. Nvidia can eat a dick for how they’re managing this. How consumers are to make an informed buying decision (lol availability) is a perfectly valid argument to have.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited December 2020
Damn, Linus really went in. Just now watching that part of the WAN show.
I'm very curious to see if Del Rizzo wrote that email or if it was a form email stamped with his name.
e: "You're going to grow a little mustache, put on a monocle and fly around in a fucking zeppelin to just play the part". Oh god, I almost choked to death when Linus busted out that line.
Damn, Linus really went in. Just now watching that part of the WAN show.
I'm very curious to see if Del Rizzo wrote that email or if it was a form email stamped with his name.
e: "You're going to grow a little Hitler mustache, put on a monocle and flying around in a fucking zeppelin to just play the part". Oh god, I almost choked to death when Linus busted out that line.
It kinda of doesn't matter, tbh, and scapegoating some intern isn't going to gain back any trust - especially as this matches anecdotal reports from numerous smaller sites of being treated in a very similar way. This is a cultural issue that permeates the whole department, and that lays it right back at the door of the head of the department.
NB: Also, even if you do have some underling who's stupid and arrogant enough to claim that Nvidia represent "gamers", then who was stupid and arrogant enough to let him send emails signed as Brian Del Rizzo?
Damn, Linus really went in. Just now watching that part of the WAN show.
I'm very curious to see if Del Rizzo wrote that email or if it was a form email stamped with his name.
e: "You're going to grow a little Hitler mustache, put on a monocle and flying around in a fucking zeppelin to just play the part". Oh god, I almost choked to death when Linus busted out that line.
It kinda of doesn't matter, tbh, and scapegoating some intern isn't going to gain back any trust - especially as this matches anecdotal reports from numerous smaller sites of being treated in a very similar way. This is a cultural issue that permeates the whole department, and that lays it right back at the door of the head of the department.
NB: Also, even if you do have some underling who's stupid and arrogant enough to claim that Nvidia represent "gamers", then who was stupid and arrogant enough to let him send emails signed as Brian Del Rizzo?
Absolutely, Nvidia is responsible for Nvidia's external messaging and PR. Whoever the persons involved are, they are literally representing the brand!
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited December 2020
If he wrote it doesn't matter in the larger scope of the issue. It matters to me because I think it's an interesting part of the story. I want to hear the details of how this was ever agreed to, at any level, by anyone with a functioning brain at Nvidia.
One side aspect I keep coming back to is how unnecessary the whole thing was. It's not like Nvidia are engaged in a desperate cut-throat battle with AMD for the precious, scarce customer dollar. Both of them will sell everything they can ship, and will continue to do so until at least the end of Q2. There's simply no need to strongarm reviewers, because it simply won't have any effect.
It also shows a weird lack of confidence in their product. Ampere cards are pretty damb good! Even if their RT was no better than AMDs, they'd still be excellent GPUs, with at least as good a value proposition as AMDs, and no one, literally no one is claiming that their RT isn't better. Or doesn't deserve coverage. Or didn't get coverage. Just that it's still only relevant for niche minority of games currently available. Which is objectively true.
Frankly, this just smacks of an adolescent temper-tantrum because HUB dared - dared!!! to show any kind of GPU results that didn't have Nvidia easily holding the first and second place.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
There are a lot of layers to peel apart and try and understand. I agree with Linus' take that it almost sounds personal, but equally whoever crafted and sent that knew it was going to be leaked immediately. The more I read the email, and listen to people talk about it, the more flabbergasted I become. There were so many miscalculations that went in to this it's hard to imagine that this actually got through a serious chain of approvals.
I am sorely tempted to start a GPU thread because while this started out just fine (tm), this is roughly the 40th page of hand wringing and I have a legitimate question:
What settings am I missing in my B450 Tomahawk's BIOS that it no longer lets Windows put the system to sleep?
It forces to sleep just fine but my power and sleep settings should handle this for me
I am sorely tempted to start a GPU thread because while this started out just fine (tm), this is roughly the 40th page of hand wringing and I have a legitimate question:
What settings am I missing in my B450 Tomahawk's BIOS that it no longer lets Windows put the system to sleep?
It forces to sleep just fine but my power and sleep settings should handle this for me
If it can go to sleep it all, it's unlikely the BIOS. Sleep is just one of the C states your system can be put in to, and if it can be forced, than that C state is active. Something is either keeping the machine awake due to activity, or something in the Windows power settings is messed up.
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited December 2020
A simple apology is not enough, and Nvidia should and will continue to get pulled through the mud for this, but...
HUB just posted on YouTube that they received an apology email from Nvidia who of course walked the GPU ban back. So Nvidia still has a lot to answer for but at least HUB isn't getting directly screwed at this point.
A simple apology is not enough, and Nvidia should and will continue to get pulled through the mud for this, but...
HUB just posted on YouTube that they received an apology email from Nvidia who of course walked the GPU ban back. So Nvidia still has a lot to answer for but at least HUB isn't getting directly screwed at this point.
So in the end, the only real result of this was nvidia shooting themselves in the foot
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HWU has said numerous times they're not doing it because they think its irrelevant with regards to video cards and say that only raster counts, so
They've never said it was a workload they can't handle. They don't want to do it in GPU reviews but just single titles.
I think they can do whatever they want honestly but I think they're 100% in the wrong here to not talk about a feature that EVERYONE will be or has included in their current and upcoming products.
I've been subscribed to HWU for over a year and I like both the guys and their content but it's been clear the entire time they think RTX isn't worth it and that's an editorial decision. One that has now bitten them in the ass.
The WAN show painted a much different picture tonight - HWU did a full RTX/DLSS video, has apparently called DLSS a "default option" that should always be turned on, and included DLSS #'s in their AMD reviews for comparison. Linus was pissed in a way I have not seen before at Nvidias actions.
Also Nvidia literally has as of the time of this post, a quote from HWU on their fucking DLSS page promoting it in their slider.
I'm (somewhat unironically) what you'd call a power user, so have a whole heap of things installed on windows.
Does anyone know of any tools to make the transition easier? I know there are install package thingies out there that allow all-in-one installation. But is there anything to collate and corale my various apps and services I have installed into them?
Or perhaps Windows isn't so fussy about motherboard swaps these days, wishful thinking I suppose...
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
Ah yes, Hardware Unboxed, the review team that's so anti-DLSS that their DLSS review is, er... promoted on Nvidia's website?
The amount of righteous anger in that video was just utterly astounding, holy shit. The man was beyond angry.
Nvidia has literally attacked his profession.
Making an example out of a review outlet that has been lukewarm about raytracing as a message to all the others?
The tone deaf email now has the review industry circling the wagons as you just threatened everything from their bottom line to their personal integrity and you look like assholes. It was also incompetently executed with things like the HWU stuff still on up on the website as well as being done within a window where HWU is easily able to show fairness by making content about these features using Cyberpunk 2077 as a backdrop.
The idea that came up on the WAN show of this being personal might make more sense, if only because of how much of a burning trash fire this is.
Windows hasn't been fussy about motherboard swaps since Windows 7, maybe earlier.
I've gone from AMD to Intel with nary a hiccup other than motherboard monitoring applications no longer working because it's the wrong motherboard, so I had to remove them from autostart.
If Nvidia's plan was to get tech review sites to form some kind of professional assocation to protect their interests, then they've make an incredible out of the gate start towards achieving their goal.
If their plan was to give Hardware Unboxed an incredible Christmas present of good publicity, then it has gone brilliantly.
Et fucking cetera.
Feel free to add to the list because I'm sure I'm forgetting a lot. He ranted for a full 40 fucking minutes about it and he was dropping nukes constantly. I think he literally said "Fuck you Nvidia" at one point and is explicitly calling out the PR manager who sent the email to HUB, because he felt the language used in their email to HUB was so out of character that he legitimately doubts the PR manager actually wrote it.
The email is a doozy, by the way. It sounds 75% like an ad and 25% passive aggressive bullshit.
Not to mention the oh-so-casual mention of the other ways that Nvidia could fuck HUB still further, like eg: witholding pre-release software and documentation support.
Also as I type this, I'm wastching the HUB cyberpunk RTX review and for all the people giving them trouble for saying 8GB isn't enough, at 1440p the 3070 falls behind 2080 Ti specifically because the RTX bells and whistles use enough VRAM at the Ultra graphics preset and just reflections on that 8 isn't enough to hit 60FPS. The extra 3GB from the 2080 Ti actually does make a difference, and as you add more shiny stuff it just gets worse, and this is only 1440p.
Also I believe Nvidia tried to pull this shit with Jay about......3? years ago (maybe longer?) with similar fallout. Once the internet world was set aflame, things died out in like 3 months.
This is the part I take the most exception to. I listened to most of Linus's ranting and raving, and I think his justification of HUB's editorial position was true when the RTX 2000 series launched. I think it's indefensible when AMD and Nvidia and Microsoft and Sony all have raytracing in their hardware, and every major engine has it integrated. And while not every game supports raytracing, it's misleading to say "Only 15 games support it". You have to look at the games! I mean, three off the top of my head that are a major fucking deal are Minecraft, Fortnite and Cyberpunk 2077. I'd say it's safe to assume probably 80% of gamers play at least one of those.
And it's like, I've seen this song and dance before. Once upon a time Nvidia supported 32bit color and 3Dfx didn't. And there was a performance penalty associated with, but it looked gorgeous. Reviewers didn't sit around going "Oh, the performance penalty for 32bit color isn't worth it, and not everyone supports it, so we aren't going to cover it in our main review" And again with anti-aliasing. And again with with assorted shader effects. There have always been image quality technologies that come along that impose a performance penalty that not every card supports. I have never seen reviewers just straight up leave covering them out of the main review.
Just like people think nvidia is being smarmy acting like HUB never talks about DLSS or RTX, I think HUB is being smarmy pointing to this entirely different video he did about it. For all the arguments Linus made during his rant about how most video reviews for hardware get the bulk of their views in the first 24 hours, and it's a hot market, and that by making HUB wait on partner hardware it cuts him out of the market? Well all those arguments also apply to the reduced visibility of the second DLSS/RTX video HUB put up after the main review.
I don't think nvidia did themselves any favors with how thick they lay it on in their letter. But I'm not team HUB either, and IMHO, if a reviewer is not covering key features of your hardware in their main review, they aren't worth sending hardware to.
But Nvidia's letter was out of line, especially the suggestion that they could get it back by 'correcting' their coverage. Either cut them off cleanly or not, don't try to extort a certain narrative
Wut? Yes it is.
Woohoo, that is the answer I was not expecting, but very much hoping to hear!
Arctic Liquid Freezer II 240 arrived today. 2 deliveries down, 2 more to go!
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
Consumers who don't want or don't care about ray tracing are served well by seeing apples to apples comparisons of normal rasterization. That is useful to have in the ecosystem even if it's not personally useful to me. Nvidia effectively saying "Do your reviews this way or we'll cut you off" is pretty much indefensible. I'm kind of shocked at people saying HUB had it coming. Like what?
This is where I'm at. I don't like HUB's GPU review methodology, I think they have in the past shown quite a bit of AMD bias...but they aren't doing anything wrong, they aren't putting out untrue statements, they are doing reviews the way they want to. They have every right to do that and Nvidia is way out of line here.
You may be shocked but that’s because it’s a straw man? People are talking about Nvidia being shitty, or not about it much at all.
Talking about what should be conveyed to consumers and why is separate from that and isn’t a defense of some Nvidia PR. Nvidia can eat a dick for how they’re managing this. How consumers are to make an informed buying decision (lol availability) is a perfectly valid argument to have.
I'm very curious to see if Del Rizzo wrote that email or if it was a form email stamped with his name.
e: "You're going to grow a little mustache, put on a monocle and fly around in a fucking zeppelin to just play the part". Oh god, I almost choked to death when Linus busted out that line.
It kinda of doesn't matter, tbh, and scapegoating some intern isn't going to gain back any trust - especially as this matches anecdotal reports from numerous smaller sites of being treated in a very similar way. This is a cultural issue that permeates the whole department, and that lays it right back at the door of the head of the department.
NB: Also, even if you do have some underling who's stupid and arrogant enough to claim that Nvidia represent "gamers", then who was stupid and arrogant enough to let him send emails signed as Brian Del Rizzo?
Absolutely, Nvidia is responsible for Nvidia's external messaging and PR. Whoever the persons involved are, they are literally representing the brand!
It also shows a weird lack of confidence in their product. Ampere cards are pretty damb good! Even if their RT was no better than AMDs, they'd still be excellent GPUs, with at least as good a value proposition as AMDs, and no one, literally no one is claiming that their RT isn't better. Or doesn't deserve coverage. Or didn't get coverage. Just that it's still only relevant for niche minority of games currently available. Which is objectively true.
Frankly, this just smacks of an adolescent temper-tantrum because HUB dared - dared!!! to show any kind of GPU results that didn't have Nvidia easily holding the first and second place.
What settings am I missing in my B450 Tomahawk's BIOS that it no longer lets Windows put the system to sleep?
It forces to sleep just fine but my power and sleep settings should handle this for me
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As long as it is a straight PCIe to PCIe dealio, shouldn’t cause you any issues.
If it can go to sleep it all, it's unlikely the BIOS. Sleep is just one of the C states your system can be put in to, and if it can be forced, than that C state is active. Something is either keeping the machine awake due to activity, or something in the Windows power settings is messed up.
HUB just posted on YouTube that they received an apology email from Nvidia who of course walked the GPU ban back. So Nvidia still has a lot to answer for but at least HUB isn't getting directly screwed at this point.
So in the end, the only real result of this was nvidia shooting themselves in the foot