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[PC Build Thread] Nope, you still can't buy anything

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Posts

  • cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    Sounds like such an unnecessary own-goal.

    Just turning into a corncob while screaming about how they aren't owned.

    steam_sig.png

    3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
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  • Pixelated PixiePixelated Pixie They/Them Registered User regular
    Spoit wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    A simple apology is not enough, and Nvidia should and will continue to get pulled through the mud for this, but...

    HUB just posted on YouTube that they received an apology email from Nvidia who of course walked the GPU ban back. So Nvidia still has a lot to answer for but at least HUB isn't getting directly screwed at this point.

    So in the end, the only real result of this was nvidia shooting themselves in the foot

    Stubbed their toe at worst. Not like this is ever going to affect their sales in any meaningful way.

    ~~ Pixie on Steam ~~
    ironzerg wrote: »
    Chipmunks are like nature's nipple clamps, I guess?
  • OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor TinychatRegistered User regular
    Alright, haven't fully built a new PC since 2011 and am running a i5-2500k OC'd and Cyberpunk is the first game I've run into where I'm going "okay time to upgrade" (GPU is a 970 fwiw).

    What's the best similar mid-range CPU these days? GPU?

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    Oghulk wrote: »
    Alright, haven't fully built a new PC since 2011 and am running a i5-2500k OC'd and Cyberpunk is the first game I've run into where I'm going "okay time to upgrade" (GPU is a 970 fwiw).

    What's the best similar mid-range CPU these days? GPU?

    Got some bad news for you. Almost anything we can recommend is going to be out of stock, or scalped to high heaven, right now. Might be the worst time ever to try and build a new system.

    That said, define what you mean by "mid-range" in actual dollars and we can help.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor TinychatRegistered User regular
    I'm not expecting to buy right now, most likely in February but am trying to get a sense of what the market looks like now.

    I think sub-$350 on the CPU and sub-$500 on the GPU

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited December 2020
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I'm not expecting to buy right now, most likely in February but am trying to get a sense of what the market looks like now.

    I think sub-$350 on the CPU and sub-$500 on the GPU

    Short of anything else coming out between now and then you're looking at a Ryzen 5 5600X and a 3070 as your best options for those dollaroos. Caveat that with the fact that AMD certainly has a 500 dollar GPU competitor coming, but we don't know when or what it will be. AMD also likely has a 5600 non-X coming at some point that should be an even better value.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • DratatooDratatoo Registered User regular
    edited December 2020
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I'm not expecting to buy right now, most likely in February but am trying to get a sense of what the market looks like now.

    I think sub-$350 on the CPU and sub-$500 on the GPU

    Short of anything else coming out between now and then you're looking at a Ryzen 5 5600X and a 3070 as your best options for those dollaroos. Caveat that with the fact that AMD certainly has a 500 dollar GPU competitor coming, but we don't know when or what it will be. AMD also likely has a 5600 non-X coming at some point that should be an even better value.

    Self build: You could go with a B550 or X570 board and a older Ryzen 5, 7 3xxx they seem readily available. I personally got a great deal on a Intel i9 9900K for ~250 Euros because vendors in Austria want to get rid of these. Its EOL, but its the gratest upgrade for my Z730 system.

    Prebuild: For a complete gaming setup, I had some luck getting prebuild systems with RTX 3070 in it for my customers. It had an Intel 10700K, 16GB 3200 DDR4 RAM, what appeared to be a Seasonic 650W PSU a nondescript OEM RTX 3070, and a cheapass OEM mainboard and a 512GB Toshiba SSD all stuffed in cheapest case imaginable. I checked the RTX 3070 - it is a real RTX according to the benchmark, 3D mark score and while reinstalling the drivers from the official site.

    Dratatoo on
  • htmhtm Registered User regular
    edited December 2020
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    There are a lot of layers to peel apart and try and understand. I agree with Linus' take that it almost sounds personal, but equally whoever crafted and sent that knew it was going to be leaked immediately. The more I read the email, and listen to people talk about it, the more flabbergasted I become. There were so many miscalculations that went in to this it's hard to imagine that this actually got through a serious chain of approvals.

    Keep in mind that withholding samples from disfavored reviewers is pretty standard practice in the enthusiast PC hardware world. AMD had done it to Gamer's Nexus, and various motherboard and GPU AIB manufacturers have a long history of it with multiple media outlets. Such "blacklisting" has always been forgiven and forgotten by both sides in time to launch the next generation of new shines.

    I think that Nvidia being forced to walk it back was the best thing that could have happened. Hopefully the humiliation of it will discourage similar shenanigans from them and others in the future.

    I also think that if Nvidia hadn't walked it back, HUB would have nevertheless been back on board their free sample gravy train by the time the RTX 31X0 (or whatever is next from Nvidia) was ready to be hyped. That's been the way it's worked for all these sorts of manufacturer tantrums in the past.

    But... none of that means that HUB was right. At a time when many of their viewers are probably considering an upgrade for Cyberpunk and/or next gen console parity, then "none of the games in my Steam backlog are ray-traced, so our quixotic conception of fairness compels us to punt on ray-tracing comparisons until after Cyberpunk has actually shipped'" isn't logic that's serving their viewers.

    htm on
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited December 2020
    If Nvidia cut them off because they reviewed things in a bad light, then yes the righteous fury is deserved. See XFX or MSI with Gamers Nexus and a few small review sites. No review site has the RIGHT to free hardware.

    They didn't. They cut them off because their testing methodology for the hardware (not individual games) was not up to snuff for getting free shit. I.E. they ignored actual features. Its the equivalent to getting a free monitor with badass HDR but not reviewing the HDR because its not apples to apples.

    I disagree with Linus completely in this instance. I think his take is wrong, because nobody is telling them to score it well, just to review it at all.

    If they're trying to force the numbers to make the brand look better, then yes burn down Jensens well-appointed kitchen.

    jungleroomx on
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    On the other hand

    All the furor towards Nvidia kind of makes me smile because man, if there's a company that deserves it, its most certainly them.

  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Wow. Price increases due to demand/limitation of parts is really apparent when you compare current prices to stuff previously ordered.

    Started getting new parts even though I missed on my GPU (EPP may get another set soon, we'll see), but I ended up getting a new case to have a front USB-C port, which basically got me to the "well, if I get a new PSU, I can convert my previous computer into the new server and just retire a bunch of old parts," so I went and looked at what getting another one of the same PSU would cost. 4 years ago, got this PSU for $130. Current price on Amazon: $205.

  • danxdanx Registered User regular
    Mugsley wrote: »
    I am sorely tempted to start a GPU thread because while this started out just fine (tm), this is roughly the 40th page of hand wringing and I have a legitimate question:

    What settings am I missing in my B450 Tomahawk's BIOS that it no longer lets Windows put the system to sleep?

    It forces to sleep just fine but my power and sleep settings should handle this for me

    It seems like there were issues with that board due to wake on lan keeping systems awake but they were fixed via an update very early on and I'm unsure if the system could be forced into sleep without waking up. You could try disabling it entirely just to see if it helps. I doubt it will though.

  • DratatooDratatoo Registered User regular
    edited December 2020
    .
    Namrok wrote: »
    Speaking of 6800's, I've been window shopping for parts for a 2004 era Win2K box. The sort of machine I built with my internship money back when Doom 3 was coming out. Man, the Geforce 6800 was a hell of a card. I eventually destroyed mine overclocking it too hard.

    2004 is a weird time to target, because you have both AGP and PCI-E, and on the Athlon 64 side you have Socket 754 and Socket 939. I think at the time I had a Socket 754 build, so that's probably what I'll go with again, despite the platform being more of a dead end in 2004 than 939 was.

    It's also funny because Geforce 6800's are most plentiful in AGP, but then you go up a year and 7800's are most plentiful in PCI-E. With prices to match. Goes from $50 on ebay to $100+.

    It's especially funny that not a single complete system with an Athlon 64 is on ebay. I got all sorts of complete systems junking up my ebay searches when I was looking for old Pentium 233 MMX platforms. Really reminds you how badly Intel ratfucked AMD back when they arguably had the best chips in the early 00's.

    If you're looking for a good AGP card, there's decent chance I still have a retired Geforce 7800GS AGP card sitting in a box around here somewhere. I'll take a look this weekend and if I do, it's yours if you want it.

    That card was my last desperate attempt to get playable framerates in Oblivion with all the eyecandy before I could afford to upgrade to that there newfangled PCI-eeeee stuff. :lol:

    07B89120-B48D-45FB-AF1D-49AF6CD16790.jpeg

    Sounds like me. That was indeed a weird time. At the time of release nothing could really run Oblivion with all bells and whistles. The game was pretty much bandwidth / CPU bottlenecked and needed a high end card on top of that. That was the time when the XBox 360 version performed and looked better, even in 720p. I remember playing through Oblivion on PC with my Core 2 and a Nvidia GTX 8800 in 2006 and only then had a decent experience on that platform.

    High end cards from any era are really sought after, because people try to rebuild their dream setup. What I would suggest is trying to find a quadro / workstation GPU equivalent. They perform about the same and are usually not considered as alternative by many. Or you could skip 2 generations of your target get a mid range version in the later gen. For example I tried building a Voodoo 5 system, but damn these are expensive, and you need a compatible board with an AGP slot which supports these. In total this would cost as much as a mid range build today. So I said screw this, got a shuttle mini PC for EUR 40 and put a Nvidia 5800 FX in there and use Windows 98 SE and 3dfx dgvoodoo wrapper - this thing runs circles around any 3dfx games and still has the compatibility for all the old Windows PC games. Plus you can frame limit them, if you run into issues and enable fixes for glitches which occur in earlier glide 1 or 2 games - I am looking at you, Interstate 76.


    Dratatoo on
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited December 2020
    If Nvidia cut them off because they reviewed things in a bad light, then yes the righteous fury is deserved. See XFX or MSI with Gamers Nexus and a few small review sites. No review site has the RIGHT to free hardware.

    They didn't. They cut them off because their testing methodology for the hardware (not individual games) was not up to snuff for getting free shit. I.E. they ignored actual features. Its the equivalent to getting a free monitor with badass HDR but not reviewing the HDR because its not apples to apples.

    I disagree with Linus completely in this instance. I think his take is wrong, because nobody is telling them to score it well, just to review it at all.

    If they're trying to force the numbers to make the brand look better, then yes burn down Jensens well-appointed kitchen.

    You and I normally see eye to eye on a lot, but I can't come with you on this journey. A reviewer has every right to do "apples to apples" comparisons, as useless as they are to me. In addition it's not like HUB has been ignoring those features, they just felt they were just less important for their audience and themselves. They weren't doing anything wrong. In my opinion Nvidia just wanted to strong arm them to cover the parts of the cards that specifically make Nvidia look good...which not only are they under no obligation to do as an independent, free, source of journalism, they actually have covered those features and pointed out how far ahead Nvidia is in those cases.

    I just don't see where Nvidia has a leg to stand on here. Obviously Nvidia didn't either because they caved to pressure less than 48 hours later.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    HUB has no right to free hardware.

    If they don't want to review all of the features that people will use in their games, then why would Nvidia give hardware to them?

    And the partner boards can still give them review units.

    I think its a big ass nothingburger that only got fueled because Nvidia is such a fundamentally unlikable and shady company, so they kid of dug their own grave there I suppose.

  • MvrckMvrck Dwarven MountainhomeRegistered User regular
    HUB has no right to free hardware.

    If they don't want to review all of the features that people will use in their games, then why would Nvidia give hardware to them?

    And the partner boards can still give them review units.

    I think its a big ass nothingburger that only got fueled because Nvidia is such a fundamentally unlikable and shady company, so they kid of dug their own grave there I suppose.

    I think you would have a bigger leg to stand on in terms of HUB's flaws if they hadn't actually done the reviewing Nvidia was claiming they didn't. Hell they even had a specific RTX/DLSS video for Cyberpunk, and Nvidia has them quoted in their marketing. Like...that's kinda past the pale when trying to make the claim they don't review things in a way you like.

  • evilbobevilbob RADELAIDERegistered User regular
    My 3080 died and with the shitty state of shipping here atm it'll probably take until next year just to get it returned, let alone get a replacement. Guess I get to spend christmas and new years dying of boredom.

    l5sruu1fyatf.jpg

  • SoggybiscuitSoggybiscuit Tandem Electrostatic Accelerator Registered User regular
    HUB has no right to free hardware.

    If they don't want to review all of the features that people will use in their games, then why would Nvidia give hardware to them?

    And the partner boards can still give them review units.

    I think its a big ass nothingburger that only got fueled because Nvidia is such a fundamentally unlikable and shady company, so they kid of dug their own grave there I suppose.

    It’s not “free” hardware. This isn’t some random dude on YT getting a card, these INDEPENDENT review outlets are businesses. This is a business transaction. Nvidia gets to communicate with their customers (us) through an independent review process they have absolutely no editorial control over. It’s that simple. This was them telling every INDEPENDENT product reviewer out there to “do it our way, or else” and attempting to exert that control. That is absolutely unacceptable

    How would you feel if Bezos told The Washington Post not to cover negative stories about Amazon working conditions in their warehouse?

    Steam - Synthetic Violence | XBOX Live - Cannonfuse | PSN - CastleBravo | Twitch - SoggybiscuitPA
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited December 2020
    HUB has no right to free hardware.

    If they don't want to review all of the features that people will use in their games, then why would Nvidia give hardware to them?

    And the partner boards can still give them review units.

    I think its a big ass nothingburger that only got fueled because Nvidia is such a fundamentally unlikable and shady company, so they kid of dug their own grave there I suppose.

    It’s not “free” hardware. This isn’t some random dude on YT getting a card, these INDEPENDENT review outlets are businesses. This is a business transaction. Nvidia gets to communicate with their customers (us) through an independent review process they have absolutely no editorial control over. It’s that simple. This was them telling every INDEPENDENT product reviewer out there to “do it our way, or else” and attempting to exert that control. That is absolutely unacceptable

    How would you feel if Bezos told The Washington Post not to cover negative stories about Amazon working conditions in their warehouse?

    Yes, its free hardware. Whether that place is a review site or not is immaterial.

    And yes part of that thing is that reviewers need to cover certain aspects of the hardware, but there is no forcing anyone to review it in a positive light. Saying "Hey, do raytracing" is not fundamentally making the review process slanted or no longer reliable, so the idea that this is going to somehow cause bad data or misleading performance metrics doesnt strike me as true.

    That someone in Nvidia used their video in marketing and also told them to do X is a strange argument, as media contacts and web marketing people rarely are the same people in companies.

    Also, why did they refuse to show these performance numbers until now, and only for a single game that is probably 6 months away from any real finalized form?

    There's a ton of review sites out there, many of them smaller than HUB, that buy their own stuff and are not beholden to any corporate standards. Maybe if HUB wants to do things like leave 1/3rd of the feature set on the cutting room floor, they can buy their own hardware.

    And honestly, while we discuss these things with some intensity, comparing a computer hardware youtube channel not getting review samples to warehouse conditions that have killed people is really gross.

    jungleroomx on
  • SoggybiscuitSoggybiscuit Tandem Electrostatic Accelerator Registered User regular
    HUB has no right to free hardware.

    If they don't want to review all of the features that people will use in their games, then why would Nvidia give hardware to them?

    And the partner boards can still give them review units.

    I think its a big ass nothingburger that only got fueled because Nvidia is such a fundamentally unlikable and shady company, so they kid of dug their own grave there I suppose.

    It’s not “free” hardware. This isn’t some random dude on YT getting a card, these INDEPENDENT review outlets are businesses. This is a business transaction. Nvidia gets to communicate with their customers (us) through an independent review process they have absolutely no editorial control over. It’s that simple. This was them telling every INDEPENDENT product reviewer out there to “do it our way, or else” and attempting to exert that control. That is absolutely unacceptable

    How would you feel if Bezos told The Washington Post not to cover negative stories about Amazon working conditions in their warehouse?

    Yes, its free hardware. Whether that place is a review site or not is immaterial.

    And yes part of that thing is that reviewers need to cover certain aspects of the hardware, but there is no forcing anyone to review it in a positive light. Saying "Hey, do raytracing" is not fundamentally making the review process slanted or no longer reliable, so the idea that this is going to somehow cause bad data or misleading performance metrics doesnt strike me as true.

    That someone in Nvidia used their video in marketing and also told them to do X is a strange argument, as media contacts and web marketing people rarely are the same people in companies.

    Also, why did they refuse to show these performance numbers until now, and only for a single game that is probably 6 months away from any real finalized form?

    There's a ton of review sites out there, many of them smaller than HUB, that buy their own stuff and are not beholden to any corporate standards. Maybe if HUB wants to do things like leave 1/3rd of the feature set on the cutting room floor, they can buy their own hardware.

    And honestly, while we discuss these things with some intensity, comparing a computer hardware youtube channel not getting review samples to warehouse conditions that have killed people is really gross.

    Which isn’t what I was doing? The point was if Bezos exerts editorial control over what WP covers, then they can’t be trusted as independent journalists. You don’t have to agree with how HUB does things, but independent journalism must be respected.

    That’s why everyone and especially all the YT review channels are angry.

    Steam - Synthetic Violence | XBOX Live - Cannonfuse | PSN - CastleBravo | Twitch - SoggybiscuitPA
  • MvrckMvrck Dwarven MountainhomeRegistered User regular
    edited December 2020

    Also, why did they refuse to show these performance numbers until now, and only for a single game that is probably 6 months away from any real finalized form?


    From literally September 18th. They didn't refuse to show shit.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX3W7Sx4l78

    Edit: Specifically 8:20ish in that video, he basically straight up says that DLSS 2.0 should always be turned, and tweak other settings afterwards to hit the performance/quality balance you want.

    Mvrck on
  • MulletudeMulletude Registered User regular
    evilbob wrote: »
    My 3080 died and with the shitty state of shipping here atm it'll probably take until next year just to get it returned, let alone get a replacement. Guess I get to spend christmas and new years dying of boredom.

    This fucking sucks.

    XBL-Dug Danger WiiU-DugDanger Steam-http://steamcommunity.com/id/DugDanger/
  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    HUB has no right to free hardware.

    If they don't want to review all of the features that people will use in their games, then why would Nvidia give hardware to them?

    And the partner boards can still give them review units.

    I think its a big ass nothingburger that only got fueled because Nvidia is such a fundamentally unlikable and shady company, so they kid of dug their own grave there I suppose.

    It’s not “free” hardware. This isn’t some random dude on YT getting a card, these INDEPENDENT review outlets are businesses. This is a business transaction. Nvidia gets to communicate with their customers (us) through an independent review process they have absolutely no editorial control over. It’s that simple. This was them telling every INDEPENDENT product reviewer out there to “do it our way, or else” and attempting to exert that control. That is absolutely unacceptable

    How would you feel if Bezos told The Washington Post not to cover negative stories about Amazon working conditions in their warehouse?

    Yes, its free hardware. Whether that place is a review site or not is immaterial.

    And yes part of that thing is that reviewers need to cover certain aspects of the hardware, but there is no forcing anyone to review it in a positive light. Saying "Hey, do raytracing" is not fundamentally making the review process slanted or no longer reliable, so the idea that this is going to somehow cause bad data or misleading performance metrics doesnt strike me as true.

    That someone in Nvidia used their video in marketing and also told them to do X is a strange argument, as media contacts and web marketing people rarely are the same people in companies.

    Also, why did they refuse to show these performance numbers until now, and only for a single game that is probably 6 months away from any real finalized form?

    There's a ton of review sites out there, many of them smaller than HUB, that buy their own stuff and are not beholden to any corporate standards. Maybe if HUB wants to do things like leave 1/3rd of the feature set on the cutting room floor, they can buy their own hardware.

    And honestly, while we discuss these things with some intensity, comparing a computer hardware youtube channel not getting review samples to warehouse conditions that have killed people is really gross.

    Are you seriously saying that they produced the CB2077 review in response to Nvidia's email the day before. You can't possibly actually think that? Because that would mean that
    1. HUB lied when they said that there would be a dedicated follow-up RT/DLSS episode
    2. They then decided to produce one after Nvidia shat on them, because reasons?
    3. And they managed to produce the whole thing in less than a day

    I'm sorry, but this is some Qanon-level horseshit.

    "and only for a single game that is probably 6 months away from any real finalized form?"

    Oh, now you care that RT is mostly "future needs"...?

  • RiusRius Globex CEO Nobody ever says ItalyRegistered User regular
    edited December 2020
    I bought that fanmate 2 (basically a rheostat for 3pin fans) and a molex to 3-pin adapter, and hooked up the lightbox with that combo such that the fanmate 2 box is outside my case but tucked away. The upshot being I can now adjust the lightbox intensity (including turning it off) by dialing the rheostat up or down, and I can also now run the mobo's automatic fan tuning if I want without totally pooching the values for a chassis fan header (because the lightbox doesn't return sensor values for speed.) And since it's still case powered, the lightbox continues to turn off when the PC does.

    Or ought to, anyway; let's test it!

    Edit: yep, works perfectly woo

    Rius on
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited December 2020
    V1m wrote: »
    HUB has no right to free hardware.

    If they don't want to review all of the features that people will use in their games, then why would Nvidia give hardware to them?

    And the partner boards can still give them review units.

    I think its a big ass nothingburger that only got fueled because Nvidia is such a fundamentally unlikable and shady company, so they kid of dug their own grave there I suppose.

    It’s not “free” hardware. This isn’t some random dude on YT getting a card, these INDEPENDENT review outlets are businesses. This is a business transaction. Nvidia gets to communicate with their customers (us) through an independent review process they have absolutely no editorial control over. It’s that simple. This was them telling every INDEPENDENT product reviewer out there to “do it our way, or else” and attempting to exert that control. That is absolutely unacceptable

    How would you feel if Bezos told The Washington Post not to cover negative stories about Amazon working conditions in their warehouse?

    Yes, its free hardware. Whether that place is a review site or not is immaterial.

    And yes part of that thing is that reviewers need to cover certain aspects of the hardware, but there is no forcing anyone to review it in a positive light. Saying "Hey, do raytracing" is not fundamentally making the review process slanted or no longer reliable, so the idea that this is going to somehow cause bad data or misleading performance metrics doesnt strike me as true.

    That someone in Nvidia used their video in marketing and also told them to do X is a strange argument, as media contacts and web marketing people rarely are the same people in companies.

    Also, why did they refuse to show these performance numbers until now, and only for a single game that is probably 6 months away from any real finalized form?

    There's a ton of review sites out there, many of them smaller than HUB, that buy their own stuff and are not beholden to any corporate standards. Maybe if HUB wants to do things like leave 1/3rd of the feature set on the cutting room floor, they can buy their own hardware.

    And honestly, while we discuss these things with some intensity, comparing a computer hardware youtube channel not getting review samples to warehouse conditions that have killed people is really gross.

    Are you seriously saying that they produced the CB2077 review in response to Nvidia's email the day before. You can't possibly actually think that? Because that would mean that
    1. HUB lied when they said that there would be a dedicated follow-up RT/DLSS episode
    2. They then decided to produce one after Nvidia shat on them, because reasons?
    3. And they managed to produce the whole thing in less than a day

    I'm sorry, but this is some Qanon-level horseshit.

    "and only for a single game that is probably 6 months away from any real finalized form?"

    Oh, now you care that RT is mostly "future needs"...?

    I mean if you're going to strawman me over pc hardware, go nuts. Especially your #1 - Never said it and I'd be happy if you pointed out where you think I did so I can correct myself from using the same words again in future.

    If the press marketing contact did something the web marketing people didn't know about, how is that QAnon conspiracy? That makes no sense. Nvidia is a collection of people, not a monolithic entity. If department A does something department B doesn't know about, it doesn't mean there's some internal conspiracy, it just means they don't need to communicate all that often. Now THAT, the idea of ascribing malice towards using their video after cutting their review samples, is some QAnon bullshit.

    And the 6 month dig was more at CP2077's absolutely awful state with regards to performance and bugs in a lot of areas, and not having to do with anything with raytracing itself. Why this can't be applied to everything is beyond me, and why they don't do it on GPU reviews goes double.

    jungleroomx on
  • RozRoz Boss of InternetRegistered User regular
    V1m wrote: »
    HUB has no right to free hardware.

    If they don't want to review all of the features that people will use in their games, then why would Nvidia give hardware to them?

    And the partner boards can still give them review units.

    I think its a big ass nothingburger that only got fueled because Nvidia is such a fundamentally unlikable and shady company, so they kid of dug their own grave there I suppose.

    It’s not “free” hardware. This isn’t some random dude on YT getting a card, these INDEPENDENT review outlets are businesses. This is a business transaction. Nvidia gets to communicate with their customers (us) through an independent review process they have absolutely no editorial control over. It’s that simple. This was them telling every INDEPENDENT product reviewer out there to “do it our way, or else” and attempting to exert that control. That is absolutely unacceptable

    How would you feel if Bezos told The Washington Post not to cover negative stories about Amazon working conditions in their warehouse?

    Yes, its free hardware. Whether that place is a review site or not is immaterial.

    And yes part of that thing is that reviewers need to cover certain aspects of the hardware, but there is no forcing anyone to review it in a positive light. Saying "Hey, do raytracing" is not fundamentally making the review process slanted or no longer reliable, so the idea that this is going to somehow cause bad data or misleading performance metrics doesnt strike me as true.

    That someone in Nvidia used their video in marketing and also told them to do X is a strange argument, as media contacts and web marketing people rarely are the same people in companies.

    Also, why did they refuse to show these performance numbers until now, and only for a single game that is probably 6 months away from any real finalized form?

    There's a ton of review sites out there, many of them smaller than HUB, that buy their own stuff and are not beholden to any corporate standards. Maybe if HUB wants to do things like leave 1/3rd of the feature set on the cutting room floor, they can buy their own hardware.

    And honestly, while we discuss these things with some intensity, comparing a computer hardware youtube channel not getting review samples to warehouse conditions that have killed people is really gross.

    Are you seriously saying that they produced the CB2077 review in response to Nvidia's email the day before. You can't possibly actually think that? Because that would mean that
    1. HUB lied when they said that there would be a dedicated follow-up RT/DLSS episode
    2. They then decided to produce one after Nvidia shat on them, because reasons?
    3. And they managed to produce the whole thing in less than a day

    I'm sorry, but this is some Qanon-level horseshit.

    "and only for a single game that is probably 6 months away from any real finalized form?"

    Oh, now you care that RT is mostly "future needs"...?

    I mean if you're going to strawman me over pc hardware, go nuts. Especially your #1 - Never said it and I'd be happy if you pointed out where you think I did so I can correct myself from using the same words again in future.

    If the press marketing contact did something the web marketing people didn't know about, how is that QAnon conspiracy? That makes no sense. Nvidia is a collection of people, not a monolithic entity. If department A does something department B doesn't know about, it doesn't mean there's some internal conspiracy, it just means they don't need to communicate all that often. Now THAT, the idea of ascribing malice towards using their video after cutting their review samples, is some QAnon bullshit.

    And the 6 month dig was more at CP2077's absolutely awful state with regards to performance and bugs in a lot of areas, and not having to do with anything with raytracing itself. Why this can't be applied to everything is beyond me, and why they don't do it on GPU reviews goes double.

    The email is decidedly malicious and gets awfully close to being expressly personal. Nvidia said they were taking their review samples away because they didn't focus on ray tracing (which is a lie, HWU has done ray tracing reviews and even stated there was one coming expressly for Cyberpunk). Nvidia made some bold claims about the industry in general; which are misleading at best and outright lies at worst. Nvidia is literally using part of their DLSS 2.0 review on their homepage! Nvidia further says in the email that HUW will have access to press materials and AIB cards -- knowing full well that AIBs release later than launch day typically and that they actually approve the reviewer list for the AIB cards. Which comes off to me as duplicitous and disingenuous. It's also threatening - look what else we can take away from you if we want.

    This isn't about free cards or conspiracy is about influence and control. Nvidia wanted to see how far they could push smaller members of the ecosystem.

  • CormacCormac Registered User regular
    So a couple of weeks back when testing my 5900x build I was having some issues with a Scythe Mugen 5 Rev.B with an extra fan having a real problem keeping the 5900x under 90 degrees when load testing. I realized last night when putting my old computer back together to have something to use (I've been without a computer at home since last Friday) that I had the second fan blowing back into the heatsinks as opposed to pulling out. I basically made the heatsink into a hotbox and was cooking the CPU. Mistakes were made.

    Putting the fans on in the correct direction is keeping my old 6700k at 4.6ghz running Cinebench R23 at 56 degrees with the fans running at 550 rpm. That's very close to the temperatures it would see when cooled by an open loop with two 360mm radiators and fans running at around 400-600 rpm. For $60 including the extra fan I'm hugely impressed.

    Steam: Gridlynk | PSN: Gridlynk | FFXIV: Jarvellis Mika
  • SoggybiscuitSoggybiscuit Tandem Electrostatic Accelerator Registered User regular
    Cormac wrote: »
    So a couple of weeks back when testing my 5900x build I was having some issues with a Scythe Mugen 5 Rev.B with an extra fan having a real problem keeping the 5900x under 90 degrees when load testing. I realized last night when putting my old computer back together to have something to use (I've been without a computer at home since last Friday) that I had the second fan blowing back into the heatsinks as opposed to pulling out. I basically made the heatsink into a hotbox and was cooking the CPU. Mistakes were made.

    Putting the fans on in the correct direction is keeping my old 6700k at 4.6ghz running Cinebench R23 at 56 degrees with the fans running at 550 rpm. That's very close to the temperatures it would see when cooled by an open loop with two 360mm radiators and fans running at around 400-600 rpm. For $60 including the extra fan I'm hugely impressed.

    I'm impressed that it stayed 90 degrees even when you were hotboxing it. These new Ryzen chips are really nice.

    Steam - Synthetic Violence | XBOX Live - Cannonfuse | PSN - CastleBravo | Twitch - SoggybiscuitPA
  • CormacCormac Registered User regular
    Cormac wrote: »
    So a couple of weeks back when testing my 5900x build I was having some issues with a Scythe Mugen 5 Rev.B with an extra fan having a real problem keeping the 5900x under 90 degrees when load testing. I realized last night when putting my old computer back together to have something to use (I've been without a computer at home since last Friday) that I had the second fan blowing back into the heatsinks as opposed to pulling out. I basically made the heatsink into a hotbox and was cooking the CPU. Mistakes were made.

    Putting the fans on in the correct direction is keeping my old 6700k at 4.6ghz running Cinebench R23 at 56 degrees with the fans running at 550 rpm. That's very close to the temperatures it would see when cooled by an open loop with two 360mm radiators and fans running at around 400-600 rpm. For $60 including the extra fan I'm hugely impressed.

    I'm impressed that it stayed 90 degrees even when you were hotboxing it. These new Ryzen chips are really nice.

    It was thermal throttling hard when it hit 90 degrees almost right away. You would have thought I would have noticed my error when I took the system apart but I somehow didn't notice it until weeks later. At the time I just thought the 5900x with PBO was just a little too much for a budget heatsink and/or the my motherboard was overvolting under PBO due to early bios teething issues.

    I wonder now what the performance would have been been had I installed the fans correctly.

    Steam: Gridlynk | PSN: Gridlynk | FFXIV: Jarvellis Mika
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited December 2020
    Roz wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    HUB has no right to free hardware.

    If they don't want to review all of the features that people will use in their games, then why would Nvidia give hardware to them?

    And the partner boards can still give them review units.

    I think its a big ass nothingburger that only got fueled because Nvidia is such a fundamentally unlikable and shady company, so they kid of dug their own grave there I suppose.

    It’s not “free” hardware. This isn’t some random dude on YT getting a card, these INDEPENDENT review outlets are businesses. This is a business transaction. Nvidia gets to communicate with their customers (us) through an independent review process they have absolutely no editorial control over. It’s that simple. This was them telling every INDEPENDENT product reviewer out there to “do it our way, or else” and attempting to exert that control. That is absolutely unacceptable

    How would you feel if Bezos told The Washington Post not to cover negative stories about Amazon working conditions in their warehouse?

    Yes, its free hardware. Whether that place is a review site or not is immaterial.

    And yes part of that thing is that reviewers need to cover certain aspects of the hardware, but there is no forcing anyone to review it in a positive light. Saying "Hey, do raytracing" is not fundamentally making the review process slanted or no longer reliable, so the idea that this is going to somehow cause bad data or misleading performance metrics doesnt strike me as true.

    That someone in Nvidia used their video in marketing and also told them to do X is a strange argument, as media contacts and web marketing people rarely are the same people in companies.

    Also, why did they refuse to show these performance numbers until now, and only for a single game that is probably 6 months away from any real finalized form?

    There's a ton of review sites out there, many of them smaller than HUB, that buy their own stuff and are not beholden to any corporate standards. Maybe if HUB wants to do things like leave 1/3rd of the feature set on the cutting room floor, they can buy their own hardware.

    And honestly, while we discuss these things with some intensity, comparing a computer hardware youtube channel not getting review samples to warehouse conditions that have killed people is really gross.

    Are you seriously saying that they produced the CB2077 review in response to Nvidia's email the day before. You can't possibly actually think that? Because that would mean that
    1. HUB lied when they said that there would be a dedicated follow-up RT/DLSS episode
    2. They then decided to produce one after Nvidia shat on them, because reasons?
    3. And they managed to produce the whole thing in less than a day

    I'm sorry, but this is some Qanon-level horseshit.

    "and only for a single game that is probably 6 months away from any real finalized form?"

    Oh, now you care that RT is mostly "future needs"...?

    I mean if you're going to strawman me over pc hardware, go nuts. Especially your #1 - Never said it and I'd be happy if you pointed out where you think I did so I can correct myself from using the same words again in future.

    If the press marketing contact did something the web marketing people didn't know about, how is that QAnon conspiracy? That makes no sense. Nvidia is a collection of people, not a monolithic entity. If department A does something department B doesn't know about, it doesn't mean there's some internal conspiracy, it just means they don't need to communicate all that often. Now THAT, the idea of ascribing malice towards using their video after cutting their review samples, is some QAnon bullshit.

    And the 6 month dig was more at CP2077's absolutely awful state with regards to performance and bugs in a lot of areas, and not having to do with anything with raytracing itself. Why this can't be applied to everything is beyond me, and why they don't do it on GPU reviews goes double.

    The email is decidedly malicious and gets awfully close to being expressly personal. Nvidia said they were taking their review samples away because they didn't focus on ray tracing (which is a lie, HWU has done ray tracing reviews and even stated there was one coming expressly for Cyberpunk). Nvidia made some bold claims about the industry in general; which are misleading at best and outright lies at worst. Nvidia is literally using part of their DLSS 2.0 review on their homepage! Nvidia further says in the email that HUW will have access to press materials and AIB cards -- knowing full well that AIBs release later than launch day typically and that they actually approve the reviewer list for the AIB cards. Which comes off to me as duplicitous and disingenuous. It's also threatening - look what else we can take away from you if we want.

    This isn't about free cards or conspiracy is about influence and control. Nvidia wanted to see how far they could push smaller members of the ecosystem.

    Nvidia is not a single person, acting like a company with 18,000 employees is a monolithic hive mind is silly. No company is going to put their advertising people with their media contact people, because the two are fundamentally different corporate positions (advertising vs outreach, they don't even have the same skillsets) You're making them sound like one single entity, which is a common thing I see a lot in a lot of places, but often leads to kind of reductive and broad arguments.

    When "Nvidia" made some bold claims, that would be the execs and the advertising people, not the media contacts, project managers, engineers, customer service reps. When "Nvidia" told HUB to fuck off with their reviews, that was the media contacts and possibly their chain of command, not anyone else. When "Nvidia" put their ad on the webpage, that was their internal advertising team (which can ALSO be their external advertising, but some places have both), not their media contacts or anyone else. So when you want to assign blame for something in a company 3 times bigger than the average American small town, some clarity is probably in order.

    It's one of the things that GN does all the time and it makes me cringe every time Steve does it. Hell I catch myself doing it, and sometimes I'll go back and edit my posts.

    You can speak of Nvidia and how people tend to think of them, but you're right now arguing that 3 different sections in the company are all in lockstep when, if anyone here has ever worked at a large corporation will tell you, it probably never happens. The general company vision is usually hammered out by execs and filtered down to the employees, so the overall trend of Nvidia being almost comically stereotypical "corpo" can definitely rest on the CEO's shoulders.

    And while I get the overall thing happeneing, and honestly whether they get or don't get cards from Nvidia means absolutely nothing to me. If a company isn't telling people how to score their hardware but just what parts to review, I still don't see the problem. Especially when it's p much glossed over on the actual card reviews, because those are the ones people watch. Do what several sites (Including LTT and GN) have done and when something that Nvidia begs them to review doesn't really live up to the hype, publish it and make sure the audience knows why it was including it in the review. It's telling that even all of the other small Youtuber sites did not have this happen to them, or any of the bigger ones. And right now, they would be 100% empowered to come forward and air Nvidia's dirty laundry right on the web with zero consequences.

    If Nvidia starts doing the MSI and telling review sites to soften the language of the review of bad products, then we can talk. Until then, this doesn't mean shit.

    jungleroomx on
  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    Except that the larger nvidia did think it meant shit, because they immediately backtracked on what they intended to do. When pretty much all the other review sites, even if they disagreed with HUB's methodology, got 100% into their corner because what nvidia did via that letter was try to dictate the terms of their coverage and leveraging access to the ability to generate reviews in order to do so...

    like, it's okay to admit this was a fuckup on nvidia's part. It will likely be forgotten by most people in the next week or so, but it probably won't be forgotten by the review sites for a while.

    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    Except that the larger nvidia did think it meant shit, because they immediately backtracked on what they intended to do. When pretty much all the other review sites, even if they disagreed with HUB's methodology, got 100% into their corner because what nvidia did via that letter was try to dictate the terms of their coverage and leveraging access to the ability to generate reviews in order to do so...

    like, it's okay to admit this was a fuckup on nvidia's part. It will likely be forgotten by most people in the next week or so, but it probably won't be forgotten by the review sites for a while.

    Its fine if its a fuckup on Nvidias part. Kind of feels like the yanking of review units with the stupid language used in the letter (combined with their company being a walking PR disaster for the last 6 months), whether or not I agree with the intention, was begging for it.

    And if anything, the retraction kind of proves my initial point that the left hand might not know what the right hand is doing.

    I still think companies are within their rights to set certain terms for review units, i.e. date of review release and what reviewers should provide info on. As long as they do not force review sites to alter the data of benchmarks (again, MSI's and XFXs marketing teams both have done this) then I'm still at a loss on what the problem is.

    But whatever, I feel like this is going nowhere, so ill drop it.

  • expendableexpendable Silly Goose Registered User regular
    I bought the Control Ultimate Edition for $20 bucks.

    I have an i5-3570, 1070, 16GB of RAM, and a 1080p g-sync compatible monitor.

    The minimum requirement is an i5-4690 and recommended calls for an i5-7600k. Obviously I'm not getting any Ray Tracing or other pretties currently, but will it be playable now or should I wait until sometime in the middle of next year when normal people might be allowed to buy things for MSRP again? It's just so hit-or-miss on whether a CPU below the minimum will work.

    Djiem wrote: »
    Lokiamis wrote: »
    So the servers suddenly decide to cramp up during the last six percent.
    Man, the Director will really go out of his way to be a dick to L4D players.
    Steam
  • CormacCormac Registered User regular
    edited December 2020
    I'd guess that 1080p with a mix of medium and low settings to get it at a playable state. Playable is relative but let's say somewhere between 30-60fps at a reasonably steady frame rate.

    On an overlocked 6700k with a 1080 at 1440p I could barely get 60fps on medium settings. It was certainly playable but because I was missing out on all the really pretty stuff I decided to set of the game aside until I could play it at higher settings.

    I'd say give it a try. If it's playable then enjoy. If it's choppy and you have to use low settings then I'd set it aside until you can experience it with a more powerful system.

    Cormac on
    Steam: Gridlynk | PSN: Gridlynk | FFXIV: Jarvellis Mika
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    What are the reliable, decent quality brands for SSDs these days? Wanna get a ~$50 512 gig SATA drive for christmas for my poor brother who's stuck on a platter drive still. Super high speed not necessary, just reliability and lifespan.

    BahamutZERO.gif
  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0781Z7Y3S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    These are the gold standard (for a good reason, they're fast and really reliable) and pretty much right in line with what you're looking for.

  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Gold standard, by the way, to cut off a couple people who I can already hear furiously typing away, does not mean "absolute best available," it means "the standard to which we compare all other things in this class as a yardstick of quality." Which I would say is absolutely where the 860 EVOs sit. They're not the best money can buy, but they're high quality, reliable, and won't break the bank.

  • jdarksunjdarksun Struggler VARegistered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    Gold standard, by the way, to cut off a couple people who I can already hear furiously typing away, does not mean "absolute best available," it means "the standard to which we compare all other things in this class as a yardstick of quality." Which I would say is absolutely where the 860 EVOs sit. They're not the best money can buy, but they're high quality, reliable, and won't break the bank.
    I have three or four of these in various sizes and form factors, and heartily agree.

  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    thank ye!

    BahamutZERO.gif
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    Gold standard, by the way, to cut off a couple people who I can already hear furiously typing away, does not mean "absolute best available," it means "the standard to which we compare all other things in this class as a yardstick of quality." Which I would say is absolutely where the 860 EVOs sit. They're not the best money can buy, but they're high quality, reliable, and won't break the bank.

    *adjusts glasses*

    WELL TO BE FRANK

This discussion has been closed.