Can we all appreciate that No man's sky guy was absolutely and utterly not expecting or even ready to win anything?
Which is too bad, I think it had a fair shot at "player support". It's been a good past two years for NMS in that specific category. None of the judges played it or gave a shit is the problem.
+1
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BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
edited December 2020
I don't think some people realise how developers genuinely appreciate receiving these awards (or genuinely care to some degree whether or not they win them, eg. Rockstar being salty and walking out when God of War won GOTY in 2018 lmao). Even if all we as the audience get from them is a sense of validation or lack thereof, or just second-hand good vibes, most of these groups aren't walking away from nominations going "this show's just an illegitimate commercial anyway", because generally the developers will enjoy the appreciation to just be on the list, and the exposure developers are getting to be part of The Commercial really puts their hard work in the spotlight in a big way
Like yeah the Keighleys are commercial as fuck, but that doesn't make the decision process for the nominees and winners inherently any less valid.
Can we all appreciate that No man's sky guy was absolutely and utterly not expecting or even ready to win anything?
Sean Murray rightfully caught a ton of shit for botching his vague promotion and false messaging as to what his game was about at launch, but it went way far beyond abuse and it's nice to see his company have their efforts recognized and applauded for turning things around completely
No man's sky promised the world and gave almost nothing. They got a lot of rightful critique but nutsack goblins are going to be nutsack goblins and i will never support harassing somebody or a group especially over something as trivial as a video game.
The fact that they powered through the abuse and managed to perform a honest to god redemption arc and forge no man's sky into a very fun game that it is today i'd give them praise and credit for that.
+7
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Zavianuniversal peace sounds better than forever warRegistered Userregular
I'm glad TLOU2 won, hopefully we will see more female protagonists in games
TLOU2 had certain awards that it was still eligible for, imo, such as accessibility and Best Performance. Perhaps even Best Writing. But Game of the Year and most specifically Best Direction were disgusting choices.
TLOU2 had certain awards that it was still eligible for, imo, such as accessibility and Best Performance. Perhaps even Best Writing. But Game of the Year and most specifically Best Direction were disgusting choices.
I can *kind of* allow Game of the Year. If nothing else, those god damn ropes? *witchcraft*
But holy hell, Best Direction??? But other people have already explained why that's a fucking idiotic choice and why Supergiant Games should have taken that one.
*edit* Also, did poor Ghost of Tsushima win anything beside Player's Choice? I genuinely think it was a better all-around game than TLOU2 (but I'm biased because I'm a GIGANTIC nerd for pre-1900 Japanese history)
TLOU2 had certain awards that it was still eligible for, imo, such as accessibility and Best Performance. Perhaps even Best Writing. But Game of the Year and most specifically Best Direction were disgusting choices.
I can *kind of* allow Game of the Year. If nothing else, those god damn ropes? *witchcraft*
But holy hell, Best Direction??? But other people have already explained why that's a fucking idiotic choice and why Supergiant Games should have taken that one.
*edit* Also, did poor Ghost of Tsushima win anything beside Player's Choice? I genuinely think it was a better all-around game than TLOU2 (but I'm biased because I'm a GIGANTIC nerd for pre-1900 Japanese history)
TLOU2 had certain awards that it was still eligible for, imo, such as accessibility and Best Performance. Perhaps even Best Writing. But Game of the Year and most specifically Best Direction were disgusting choices.
I can *kind of* allow Game of the Year. If nothing else, those god damn ropes? *witchcraft*
But holy hell, Best Direction??? But other people have already explained why that's a fucking idiotic choice and why Supergiant Games should have taken that one.
*edit* Also, did poor Ghost of Tsushima win anything beside Player's Choice? I genuinely think it was a better all-around game than TLOU2 (but I'm biased because I'm a GIGANTIC nerd for pre-1900 Japanese history)
Ghost won best art iirc.
so I minored in Japanese Art History in college (long story and I had to design the major and minor in east asian studies myself, yes I'm a turbo-nerd) and I have to say, *extremely well deserved*
as in: as someone who actually studied The Thing in a scholarly setting, I was in a constant state of "holy shit" and "oh god, the detail" and "they referenced who???" and "okay that's 400 years out of date, but I understand their *exact* reasons for using said thing in this setting despite it being 400 years too early for said thing to exist" (the reasons were "it's cool" and "for a Western audience, it'd be weird not to have this" and "we're more referencing Akira Kurosawa films and classic Japanese historical fiction drama" and "it's cool, but we've shown elsewhere that we did our homework and this isn't just blind anachronism for the sake of anachronism")
which is a hell of a ride to be on, so. A+, 100%, awesome.
**EDIT**
Put another way? I graduated from college in 2010. Ghost of Tsushima had me digging out my textbooks to look up everything I could on the Kamakura era and the Mongol invasions to compare my own notes to Sucker Punch's creation. Which is why it's tied with Hades for my Game of the Year (Hades had me pestering my mother, who teaches classical Greek theater, about her annotated copy of The Bacchae, the Elusinian Mysteries, and various myths & legends)
TLOU2 winning really shows the industry being locked in this mindset of wanting to be Hollywood.
In some ways yes, but I also disagree vehemently with anyone who says it didn't deserve it because it's absolutely a worthy contender.
It's a technical marvel, a watermark for inclusion in terms of protagonists, was bold in its storytelling (which does open it up for a lot of controversy) and was a technical marvel. Compared with say Cyberpunk 2077, which is a technical mess, I can't recall The Last of Us having any major bugs, issues or even crashing on me a single time while I was playing it.
Nobody can convince me it wasn't worthy of it, which of course does not mean I wouldn't have felt some of those other games wouldn't be a good choice either.
*edit* Also, did poor Ghost of Tsushima win anything beside Player's Choice? I genuinely think it was a better all-around game than TLOU2 (but I'm biased because I'm a GIGANTIC nerd for pre-1900 Japanese history)
Supposedly TLOU2 was winning player's choice with Ghost in 2nd until a last-minute surge. I've seen the suggestion that people piled on to Ghosts at that point primarily to keep TLOU2 out of the top spot.
TLOU2 winning really shows the industry being locked in this mindset of wanting to be Hollywood.
It's a technical marvel, a watermark for inclusion in terms of protagonists, was bold in its storytelling (which does open it up for a lot of controversy)
Okay, but the thing is, Hades is at a minimum equal to TLOU in those respects. Hades' protagonist is a bisexual polyamorous man who can potentially end up in three open, loving relationships, one of which is an explicitly sexual relationship with another man. And he can be in those relationships at the same time, and have very frank, open discussions with all of his partners about how they all feel about that, and unlike SO MANY other games, those discussions come down to "We're actually all okay with this arrangement and we're all friends with each other too." Like, that's pretty damn bold, actually!
AND THEN it has at least one major character who is explicitly agender / nonbinary and uses they/them pronouns, AND THEN it's got another gay male couple where a very large part of the plot with them is explicitly about getting them back together, AND THEN there's another major character who is lesbian and a lot of your relationship with her is about her getting comfortable enough to talk to you about it.
AND
THEN
Hades has branching voice lines and mini story arcs for basically every SINGLE possible combination/way of progressing the game you can think of, and actually has A LOT to say about family, about abusive relationships, about forgiveness, about self-discovery, and about death itself! Like!
TLOU2 winning really shows the industry being locked in this mindset of wanting to be Hollywood.
It's a technical marvel, a watermark for inclusion in terms of protagonists, was bold in its storytelling (which does open it up for a lot of controversy)
Okay, but the thing is, Hades is at a minimum equal to TLOU. Hades' protagonist is a bisexual polyamorous man who can potentially end up in three open, loving relationships, one of which is an explicitly sexual relationship with another man. And he can be in those relationships at the same time, and have very frank, open discussions with all of his partners about how they all feel about that, and unlike SO MANY other games, those discussions come down to "We're actually all okay with this arrangement and we're all friends with each other too." Like, that's pretty damn bold, actually!
AND THEN it has at least one major character who is explicitly agender / nonbinary and uses they/them pronouns, AND THEN it's got another gay male couple where a very large part of the plot with them is explicitly about getting them back together, AND THEN there's another major character who is lesbian and a lot of your relationship with her is about her getting comfortable enough to talk to you about it.
AND
THEN
Hades has branching voice lines and mini story arcs for basically every SINGLE possible combination/way of progressing the game you can think of, and actually has A LOT to say about family, about abusive relationships, about forgiveness, about self-discovery, and about death itself! Like!
Also, the Olympian gods’ designs take into account the wide variety of people who would have worshipped them, instead of them all being white.
Hades is superior to TLOU2 in every possible way except raw polygon count.
Never played Hades,, but is it really that good? Is it better than Diablo 3 or Path of Exile?
It's honestly nothing like either of those games other than killing things in an isometric view. It's more of an action Roguelike with an incredible narrative.
Hades is superior to TLOU2 in every possible way except raw polygon count.
Never played Hades,, but is it really that good? Is it better than Diablo 3 or Path of Exile?
It's honestly nothing like either of those games other than killing things in an isometric view. It's more of an action Roguelike with an incredible narrative.
Pretty much. Granted, it plays really really well, with six completely different weapons. And you regularly get a drip-feed of boons and items to make you stronger and alter the game in interesting ways. Some of which you can get by risking tougher fights or a temporary hit to your life, giving you constant choices that keep you invested. And many of the things you're rewarded with make you permanently stronger, which takes much of the sting out of the many deaths. And that's before the near-endless interesting dialog and fascinating characters.
Let me put it to you this way: I'm not generally a fan of roguelikes that expect you to die over and over and over and over. But Hades is either one of the best or the best games I've played all year.
Zavianuniversal peace sounds better than forever warRegistered Userregular
people are going crazy over Best Direction for TLOU2, but I thought the directing was great, especially compared to say Death Stranding. I get people are salty that TLOU2 has female protagonists, but like, that doesn't mean it deserved all the hate it got
Most of the people I've seen upset about TLOU2 getting best direction are mad because it was made under horrible crunch conditions. Game direction isn't just about directing the performances in the game, it's about directing how the game is made, including timelines. If a game has damning reports of crunch, well, maybe it wasn't directed the best.
Cruor on
+10
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Zavianuniversal peace sounds better than forever warRegistered Userregular
Most of the people I've seen upset about TLOU2 getting best direction are mad because it was made under horrible crunch conditions. Game direction isn't just about directing the performances in the game, it's about directing how the game is made, including timelines. If a game has damning reports of crunch, well, maybe it wasn't directed the best.
most of the thousands of people that review bombed it on metacritic a minute after launch I've always assumed never played it, and their misogynistic and transphobic comments didn't mention crunch
Most of the people I've seen upset about TLOU2 getting best direction are mad because it was made under horrible crunch conditions. Game direction isn't just about directing the performances in the game, it's about directing how the game is made, including timelines. If a game has damning reports of crunch, well, maybe it wasn't directed the best.
most of the thousands of people that review bombed it on metacritic a minute after launch I've always assumed never played it
Both things are true! TLOU2 got a ton of hate for having queer female protagonists that don't confirm to what "real gamers" think a woman should look like, and also got hate for including trans characters. TLOU2 was also made under awful crunch conditions, signifying that the game didn't have the best direction.
Edit: changed wording, original wording was bad.
Cruor on
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Zavianuniversal peace sounds better than forever warRegistered Userregular
edited December 2020
I also think Best Direction as a category refers to creative direction than direction of the production. Crunch is certainly a fair criticism towards the studio and the industry as a whole, though in the context of the award itself I took it to mean something akin to creative direction. Personally I think while not perfect, TLOU2 did a great job of essentially presenting a 'video game novel'. I think there are plenty of criticisms that can be leveled at the story and characters, but I also think it did a better job with it than a lot of other games that try to do the same such as Death Stranding. I think TLOU2's storytelling and direction is better than Kojima's for instance. Awards are always subjective, thats just my opinion on Best Direction. I haven't played Hades so for all I know it has better creative direction. If it was Best Production I would absolutely agree, it should be nominated for Worst Production because of the crunch
Literally every major plot beat was immediately followed with, "oh you want to see how this plot point plays out? *record scratch* Well first we're gonna grind everything to an absolute halt and bring you back to 3 days ago so you can spend the next 10 hours getting back to here"
Just because Keighley deigned Best Game Direction to be for "outstanding creative vision and innovation in game direction and design" does not absolve Naughty Dog for the means used to achieve that end. Unfortunately, the award will likely embolden mistreatment to continue.
Black lives matter.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
it's also that, again, on literally every metric being pointed out for how TLOU2 did well in "game direction," Hades did at a minimum exactly as well (and, I would argue, better), and they did it without abusing their employees
like nobody's even arguing that TLOU2 was *bad*, they're arguing that Hades was better at all the things TLOU2 won on except "has lots of polygons" and "did some sort of truly uncanny physics witchcraft with ropes"
Hades: better writing, better acting/voice acting, better directing of said actors, better LGBTQIA+ rep, more fun to play, WAY better art design & direction, just plain looks nicer
TLOU2: seriously that rope haunts me and it is an incredible technical achievement. like. what WAS that. how. i shudder to think of how many sleepless nights happened for the entire team to get that rope thing working.
a crazy ass witchcraft rope and high resolution photorealism do not a Game of the Year make, especially not when your employees were outright abused to make said crazy ass witchcraft rope and high resolution photorealism.
Reading here and elsewhere about these awards the more I become convinced if Hades had been out on PS4 and Xbone it would have had the juice to snatch more awards.
it's also that, again, on literally every metric being pointed out for how TLOU2 did well in "game direction," Hades did at a minimum exactly as well (and, I would argue, better), and they did it without abusing their employees
like nobody's even arguing that TLOU2 was *bad*, they're arguing that Hades was better at all the things TLOU2 won on except "has lots of polygons" and "did some sort of truly uncanny physics witchcraft with ropes"
Hades: better writing, better acting/voice acting, better directing of said actors, better LGBTQIA+ rep, more fun to play, WAY better art design & direction, just plain looks nicer
TLOU2: seriously that rope haunts me and it is an incredible technical achievement. like. what WAS that. how. i shudder to think of how many sleepless nights happened for the entire team to get that rope thing working.
a crazy ass witchcraft rope and high resolution photorealism do not a Game of the Year make, especially not when your employees were outright abused to make said crazy ass witchcraft rope and high resolution photorealism.
There's also the fact that Hades doesn't try to shame you for something you did in the game that the game gave you no choice but to do. That's an immediate thumbs down for me on a game.
it's also that, again, on literally every metric being pointed out for how TLOU2 did well in "game direction," Hades did at a minimum exactly as well (and, I would argue, better), and they did it without abusing their employees
like nobody's even arguing that TLOU2 was *bad*, they're arguing that Hades was better at all the things TLOU2 won on except "has lots of polygons" and "did some sort of truly uncanny physics witchcraft with ropes"
Hades: better writing, better acting/voice acting, better directing of said actors, better LGBTQIA+ rep, more fun to play, WAY better art design & direction, just plain looks nicer
TLOU2: seriously that rope haunts me and it is an incredible technical achievement. like. what WAS that. how. i shudder to think of how many sleepless nights happened for the entire team to get that rope thing working.
a crazy ass witchcraft rope and high resolution photorealism do not a Game of the Year make, especially not when your employees were outright abused to make said crazy ass witchcraft rope and high resolution photorealism.
There's also the fact that Hades doesn't try to shame you for something you did in the game that the game gave you no choice but to do. That's an immediate thumbs down for me on a game.
Hades does a great job of encouraging you in general, which really helps when you're expected to die endlessly. (Which is normally something I hate.) Zero loading time, and then the first character you meet when you revive says something funny.
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Which is too bad, I think it had a fair shot at "player support". It's been a good past two years for NMS in that specific category. None of the judges played it or gave a shit is the problem.
Like yeah the Keighleys are commercial as fuck, but that doesn't make the decision process for the nominees and winners inherently any less valid.
Sean Murray rightfully caught a ton of shit for botching his vague promotion and false messaging as to what his game was about at launch, but it went way far beyond abuse and it's nice to see his company have their efforts recognized and applauded for turning things around completely
No man's sky promised the world and gave almost nothing. They got a lot of rightful critique but nutsack goblins are going to be nutsack goblins and i will never support harassing somebody or a group especially over something as trivial as a video game.
The fact that they powered through the abuse and managed to perform a honest to god redemption arc and forge no man's sky into a very fun game that it is today i'd give them praise and credit for that.
TLOU2 had certain awards that it was still eligible for, imo, such as accessibility and Best Performance. Perhaps even Best Writing. But Game of the Year and most specifically Best Direction were disgusting choices.
I can *kind of* allow Game of the Year. If nothing else, those god damn ropes? *witchcraft*
But holy hell, Best Direction??? But other people have already explained why that's a fucking idiotic choice and why Supergiant Games should have taken that one.
*edit* Also, did poor Ghost of Tsushima win anything beside Player's Choice? I genuinely think it was a better all-around game than TLOU2 (but I'm biased because I'm a GIGANTIC nerd for pre-1900 Japanese history)
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
Ghost won best art iirc.
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
so I minored in Japanese Art History in college (long story and I had to design the major and minor in east asian studies myself, yes I'm a turbo-nerd) and I have to say, *extremely well deserved*
as in: as someone who actually studied The Thing in a scholarly setting, I was in a constant state of "holy shit" and "oh god, the detail" and "they referenced who???" and "okay that's 400 years out of date, but I understand their *exact* reasons for using said thing in this setting despite it being 400 years too early for said thing to exist" (the reasons were "it's cool" and "for a Western audience, it'd be weird not to have this" and "we're more referencing Akira Kurosawa films and classic Japanese historical fiction drama" and "it's cool, but we've shown elsewhere that we did our homework and this isn't just blind anachronism for the sake of anachronism")
which is a hell of a ride to be on, so. A+, 100%, awesome.
**EDIT**
Put another way? I graduated from college in 2010. Ghost of Tsushima had me digging out my textbooks to look up everything I could on the Kamakura era and the Mongol invasions to compare my own notes to Sucker Punch's creation. Which is why it's tied with Hades for my Game of the Year (Hades had me pestering my mother, who teaches classical Greek theater, about her annotated copy of The Bacchae, the Elusinian Mysteries, and various myths & legends)
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
In some ways yes, but I also disagree vehemently with anyone who says it didn't deserve it because it's absolutely a worthy contender.
It's a technical marvel, a watermark for inclusion in terms of protagonists, was bold in its storytelling (which does open it up for a lot of controversy) and was a technical marvel. Compared with say Cyberpunk 2077, which is a technical mess, I can't recall The Last of Us having any major bugs, issues or even crashing on me a single time while I was playing it.
Nobody can convince me it wasn't worthy of it, which of course does not mean I wouldn't have felt some of those other games wouldn't be a good choice either.
Unfortunately discourse on TLOU2 was forever tainted by bigots and transphobes being absolute nutsack goblins.
The story wasn't bold IMO, either. It was a pretty standard revenge plot. Mostly carried by excellent performances.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
Supposedly TLOU2 was winning player's choice with Ghost in 2nd until a last-minute surge. I've seen the suggestion that people piled on to Ghosts at that point primarily to keep TLOU2 out of the top spot.
Okay, but the thing is, Hades is at a minimum equal to TLOU in those respects. Hades' protagonist is a bisexual polyamorous man who can potentially end up in three open, loving relationships, one of which is an explicitly sexual relationship with another man. And he can be in those relationships at the same time, and have very frank, open discussions with all of his partners about how they all feel about that, and unlike SO MANY other games, those discussions come down to "We're actually all okay with this arrangement and we're all friends with each other too." Like, that's pretty damn bold, actually!
AND THEN it has at least one major character who is explicitly agender / nonbinary and uses they/them pronouns, AND THEN it's got another gay male couple where a very large part of the plot with them is explicitly about getting them back together, AND THEN there's another major character who is lesbian and a lot of your relationship with her is about her getting comfortable enough to talk to you about it.
AND
THEN
Hades has branching voice lines and mini story arcs for basically every SINGLE possible combination/way of progressing the game you can think of, and actually has A LOT to say about family, about abusive relationships, about forgiveness, about self-discovery, and about death itself! Like!
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
Never played Hades,, but is it really that good? Is it better than Diablo 3 or Path of Exile?
check search site: duckduckgo.com
www.ign.com/articles/the-game-awards-2020-all-the-winners
check search site: duckduckgo.com
Also, the Olympian gods’ designs take into account the wide variety of people who would have worshipped them, instead of them all being white.
It's honestly nothing like either of those games other than killing things in an isometric view. It's more of an action Roguelike with an incredible narrative.
Pretty much. Granted, it plays really really well, with six completely different weapons. And you regularly get a drip-feed of boons and items to make you stronger and alter the game in interesting ways. Some of which you can get by risking tougher fights or a temporary hit to your life, giving you constant choices that keep you invested. And many of the things you're rewarded with make you permanently stronger, which takes much of the sting out of the many deaths. And that's before the near-endless interesting dialog and fascinating characters.
Let me put it to you this way: I'm not generally a fan of roguelikes that expect you to die over and over and over and over. But Hades is either one of the best or the best games I've played all year.
Hades is one of those few, few games that is better than what you've heard and yes you should play it.
I am not hyperbolic when I say Hades has cracked my top five all time, joining X-Com Enemy Unknown among others.
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
most of the thousands of people that review bombed it on metacritic a minute after launch I've always assumed never played it, and their misogynistic and transphobic comments didn't mention crunch
Both things are true! TLOU2 got a ton of hate for having queer female protagonists that don't confirm to what "real gamers" think a woman should look like, and also got hate for including trans characters. TLOU2 was also made under awful crunch conditions, signifying that the game didn't have the best direction.
Edit: changed wording, original wording was bad.
Literally every major plot beat was immediately followed with, "oh you want to see how this plot point plays out? *record scratch* Well first we're gonna grind everything to an absolute halt and bring you back to 3 days ago so you can spend the next 10 hours getting back to here"
Repeat 4 times
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
like nobody's even arguing that TLOU2 was *bad*, they're arguing that Hades was better at all the things TLOU2 won on except "has lots of polygons" and "did some sort of truly uncanny physics witchcraft with ropes"
Hades: better writing, better acting/voice acting, better directing of said actors, better LGBTQIA+ rep, more fun to play, WAY better art design & direction, just plain looks nicer
TLOU2: seriously that rope haunts me and it is an incredible technical achievement. like. what WAS that. how. i shudder to think of how many sleepless nights happened for the entire team to get that rope thing working.
a crazy ass witchcraft rope and high resolution photorealism do not a Game of the Year make, especially not when your employees were outright abused to make said crazy ass witchcraft rope and high resolution photorealism.
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
There's also the fact that Hades doesn't try to shame you for something you did in the game that the game gave you no choice but to do. That's an immediate thumbs down for me on a game.
“How could you? That hydra had a family!”
Plus his remarks are generally more creative than "man, you suck."