On one of his Shuffle Master streams Arin shared his opinion that Danganronpa is terrible, a horrible game, but it's also really funny and fun for the channel. So he's having fun with it but from the perspective that a lot of the fun is how awful it is.
Which is honestly unsurprising. It's worse than Phoenix Wright in some of its horseshit logic paths.
The logic paths are fine. The class trials are not a literal courtroom dictated by law as we know it. It's a court of public opinion.
Oh, it's just a superstition. Kingdom Hearts has a reputation of killing the Let's Play channels that play it before they can complete the game. Two/Super Best Friends Play is the most famous example I can think of, though obviously the channel had other problems and Kingdom Hearts was just the game they were playing at the time. Penny Parker talked about it on her playthrough of the game on Snapcube, which, incidentally, hasn't finished yet.
You know what? Nanowrimo's cancelled on account of the world is stupid.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
To be fair Penny is up to other sorts of projects that aren't just Lets Plays.
To be fair Penny is up to other sorts of projects that aren't just Lets Plays.
Fair enough. Not a criticism at Penny, just a comment that the Curse remains Unbroken. Though I am curious what other projects she's working on. Is another album or a Sonic Redubbed coming up?
Back to the Grumps, will it just be Arin, or will other Grumps join up at times? Has he ever played it before?
You know what? Nanowrimo's cancelled on account of the world is stupid.
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ExtreaminatusGo forth and amplify,the Noise Marines are here!Registered Userregular
If it's anything like his KH1 non-stop stream last time, it'll just be him hanging out at home and occasionally someone else might come in as he slowly loses the will to live
If it's anything like his KH1 non-stop stream last time, it'll just be him hanging out at home and occasionally someone else might come in as he slowly loses the will to live
Oh, this is KH2? My mistake, I didn't realize he already did the original. On the plus side, the gameplay on 2 is way better...
...give or take the Little Mermaid section.
You know what? Nanowrimo's cancelled on account of the world is stupid.
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KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
Hmm... middle is true in the sense of he's currently doing it but... getting to Sora is the prologue. The game just STARTS at that point.
Edit: He went about 15 hours or so and then had to take a break because talking without rest was hurting his voice. He's going to pick it up at New Year's it would be a good idea to have guests wander by if possible at that point to save his voice (but maybe not possible with Covid or his setup).
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Thanks to everyone who mentioned Danganronpa V3 in this thread. I literally had no idea about its existence and I've started playing it. It's a really solid entry so far. The first case in the game was WAY better than what I remember of the second and especially first games. I really hope they intend to play all three at this stage.
Also I cannot for the life of me remember playing the second game, even though I'm 90% sure I did - but I don't have any trophies?!?! It's kind of strange! I'm not sure what's happened there.
Edit: It took me a few minutes to realize they were reusing audio. I legit thought Dan and Arin helped out on-site, which was nuts considering the pandemic.
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
I really hope they get to v3.
It has been the best in the Franchise so far for me.
These Krampus videos are great. I can't believe how many Christmas horror games there are...
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I kinda realized over the forum holiday break that I'm pretty over the Game Grumps. The complaints Arin has about Danganronpa are huge nothings. Like he's making mountains out of ant hills. Namely in that he doesn't consider whatsoever that he and Danny are playing the game for hours on end each time they record, which most people who play video games do not do - so the repetition of information in the game comes across as "bad" even though it's not meant for them. He also had that snide ass "visual novels aren't really games" take along with it which is AMAZING for him to have said given they put out Dream goddamnfucking Daddy.
I've definitely lost interest. I don't really enjoy most of the things they play anymore, and don't get carried exclusively by the banter either, especially long series that I don't enjoy.
I watched one of the Halloween ones, and uhh...Super Mega Monopoly.
I'm looking forward to Super Ross World though, whenever that's going to happen if I haven't somehow missed it.
I dunno, as someone who's never played Danganronpa I kind of agree with what they are saying about it. The repetitive stuff in conversations is within minutes of each other, sometimes in the same scene even, not because they are playing for hours. And the trial gameplay seems unnecessarily complicated and pointless.
I don't remember him saying anything derogatory about visual novels as a medium, either.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited January 2021
35 seconds into this. "It's a fuckin' visual novel. Like it's... it's not a game."
Edit - Like he declares he "loves" it anyway but frankly I think it's because of the eyes it brings to the channel, or in other words a cynical "it makes me money to do" take.
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
edited January 2021
I mean, they aren't though. Like, in the way a football movie and a broadcast of a football game are fundamentally different things.
Now, to use that to imply that visual novels are in some way lesser than videogames is bullshit. But I don't feel like that was the point he was trying to make there.
I don't understand the issue there. He says he loves it multiple times. He also thinks it's terrible. So basically the same as his opinion on Sonic games.
Saying it's not a game is... wrong, but this is an argument visual novels have been surrounded by forever. It's also not a value statement though. He directly after that says the game elements are bad, and so I think if it were just a visual novel he'd probably enjoy it more.
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
I mean, they aren't though. Like, in the way a football movie and a broadcast of a football game are fundamentally different things.
In trying to think of a better way to put it, let me say this: games can incorporate elements of cinema, but that doesn't make the game a movie. Some visual novels have gameplay elements to them, but that doesn't make them a game. I feel like they need to be driven more by gameplay than the 'choose your own adventure' elements to cross that threshold. And of course, a work can be both. But a visual novel can also just be a multimedia form of choose your own adventure book.
Now, to use that to imply that visual novels are in some way lesser than videogames is bullshit. But I don't feel like that was the point he was trying to make there.
@Henroid To further my second argument (that you are misunderstanding Arin's point), the full quote is "If I was trying to make it a good game, I would make huge changes, um, but I mean it's a fuckin' visual novel, it's not a game." That first part you cut off changes the meaning of the rest of the sentence. He's saying those aspects aren't so important because it's trying to be something other than just a game.
There does appear to be very little actual "game" to Danganronpa. I guess I'm not sure why this is controversial? This is the first game grumps playthrough in some time that I've actually enjoyed, I just wish they'd bring back the episode numbers. Even the YouTube suggestions are confused and it keeps directing me to the wrong episode after I'm done with the previous one, so fuck you if you don't like spoliers I guess?
More and more I think its YouTube that I'm getting turned off of rather than game grumps specifically.
As youtube becomes this lumbering content tetsuo, I find myself overwhelmed with content. I have a sublist that goes back to 2005 and while not all those creators still post, it makes actually using my subscriptions cumbersome. Youtube has a curation problem.
I dunno, as someone who's never played Danganronpa I kind of agree with what they are saying about it. The repetitive stuff in conversations is within minutes of each other, sometimes in the same scene even, not because they are playing for hours. And the trial gameplay seems unnecessarily complicated and pointless.
I don't remember him saying anything derogatory about visual novels as a medium, either.
I watched the anime adaptation after the Grumps started playing the game and enjoyed it, but the game itself (particularly during the trial sections) looks like something I would find tedious and frustrating. However, I bought some Christmas gifts from Hot Topic and saw a surprising amount of merch for Danganronpa (specifically featuring art from the first game, which came out in 2010), so it's definitely popular despite that.
Again, I did enjoy the anime, and I am looking forward to Arin and Dan's reactions to the late game plot twists.
Yeah I'm so ready for a new series myself. I enjoyed the Christmas videos a whole lot but the past week or so has been nothing but Danganropa. But it's also holiday vacation for them so it's whatever. Super Ross World is going to happen soon and I'm mentally preparing for it!
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
I figure this is why they typically don’t finish games. Both them and the fans get burnt out even though they always so desperately want them to finish.
I figure this is why they typically don’t finish games. Both them and the fans get burnt out even though they always so desperately want them to finish.
(ranty) It doesn't help that they deadass refuse to alter their content structure to accommodate long-form games, I guess so ThE aLgOrItHm doesn't get angry at them for breaking Optimum Video Length or whatever the content creator term is for it. Far as I can tell it hasn't really changed since I stopped watching them like four years ago - two videos a day, around half hour apiece, what do they think is going to happen with a 30+ hour game? It'll either never get finished or it'll go into episode 60+
In fact that's why I largely stopped watching to begin with, when months-long stretches of two videos per day of the same two games going into episode 70+(hi Mario Maker) started becoming the norm. When you like what they're playing you don't notice it, but when it's something you don't resonate with or don't want to get spoiled on, golly gee guess I'll come back in a couple of months then! Then Twitch started rising in popularity and small wonder I eventually drifted away entirely.
I figure this is why they typically don’t finish games. Both them and the fans get burnt out even though they always so desperately want them to finish.
(ranty) It doesn't help that they deadass refuse to alter their content structure to accommodate long-form games, I guess so ThE aLgOrItHm doesn't get angry at them for breaking Optimum Video Length or whatever the content creator term is for it. Far as I can tell it hasn't really changed since I stopped watching them like four years ago - two videos a day, around half hour apiece, what do they think is going to happen with a 30+ hour game? It'll either never get finished or it'll go into episode 60+
In fact that's why I largely stopped watching to begin with, when months-long stretches of two videos per day of the same two games going into episode 70+(hi Mario Maker) started becoming the norm. When you like what they're playing you don't notice it, but when it's something you don't resonate with or don't want to get spoiled on, golly gee guess I'll come back in a couple of months then! Then Twitch started rising in popularity and small wonder I eventually drifted away entirely.
It's changed pretty dramatically from that. Now they do longer one a day videos with some off days. Longer like 45-55 min, not like 2 hours or whatever. Getting mad at them for doing what will keep their business and livelihoods the healthiest is somewhere in between pointless (watch something else) and toxic (it's... free content, cool off) though.
I figure this is why they typically don’t finish games. Both them and the fans get burnt out even though they always so desperately want them to finish.
(ranty) It doesn't help that they deadass refuse to alter their content structure to accommodate long-form games, I guess so ThE aLgOrItHm doesn't get angry at them for breaking Optimum Video Length or whatever the content creator term is for it. Far as I can tell it hasn't really changed since I stopped watching them like four years ago - two videos a day, around half hour apiece, what do they think is going to happen with a 30+ hour game? It'll either never get finished or it'll go into episode 60+
In fact that's why I largely stopped watching to begin with, when months-long stretches of two videos per day of the same two games going into episode 70+(hi Mario Maker) started becoming the norm. When you like what they're playing you don't notice it, but when it's something you don't resonate with or don't want to get spoiled on, golly gee guess I'll come back in a couple of months then! Then Twitch started rising in popularity and small wonder I eventually drifted away entirely.
It's changed pretty dramatically from that. Now they do longer one a day videos with some off days. Longer like 45-55 min, not like 2 hours or whatever. Getting mad at them for doing what will keep their business and livelihoods the healthiest is somewhere in between pointless (watch something else) and toxic (it's... free content, cool off) though.
Looking at their videos for the past few months their stance on occasional 45-50 minutes videos does not appear to have changed much - an exception for a one-off or if they really want to wrap a series up, but hardly a norm - their overwhelming average still looks to be 35 minutes +/- 5. The problem is exactly the opposite - if they want to play a 30+ hour game then the 35 minutes per session for 70 episodes format is not the best viewing experience.
But yeah, the easy solution for me was to just watch other things(again I haven't watched them for going on 4 years now), but if they and/or their fans are constantly getting burned out on longform games and never finishing them then maybe it is a sign that A) They should change their format for those games or Stop playing those games.
Also there's definitely some blame to be laid on the fans - after 8 years they should know by now that the Grumps will almost never finish a long game especially if they were pressured into it and especially if Arin gets into his habit of searching for trite reasons to hate it. None of what happens should be any surprise to anyone.
I figure this is why they typically don’t finish games. Both them and the fans get burnt out even though they always so desperately want them to finish.
(ranty) It doesn't help that they deadass refuse to alter their content structure to accommodate long-form games, I guess so ThE aLgOrItHm doesn't get angry at them for breaking Optimum Video Length or whatever the content creator term is for it. Far as I can tell it hasn't really changed since I stopped watching them like four years ago - two videos a day, around half hour apiece, what do they think is going to happen with a 30+ hour game? It'll either never get finished or it'll go into episode 60+
In fact that's why I largely stopped watching to begin with, when months-long stretches of two videos per day of the same two games going into episode 70+(hi Mario Maker) started becoming the norm. When you like what they're playing you don't notice it, but when it's something you don't resonate with or don't want to get spoiled on, golly gee guess I'll come back in a couple of months then! Then Twitch started rising in popularity and small wonder I eventually drifted away entirely.
It's changed pretty dramatically from that. Now they do longer one a day videos with some off days. Longer like 45-55 min, not like 2 hours or whatever. Getting mad at them for doing what will keep their business and livelihoods the healthiest is somewhere in between pointless (watch something else) and toxic (it's... free content, cool off) though.
Looking at their videos for the past few months their stance on occasional 45-50 minutes videos does not appear to have changed much - an exception for a one-off or if they really want to wrap a series up, but hardly a norm - their overwhelming average still looks to be 35 minutes +/- 5. The problem is exactly the opposite - if they want to play a 30+ hour game then the 35 minutes per session for 70 episodes format is not the best viewing experience.
But yeah, the easy solution for me was to just watch other things(again I haven't watched them for going on 4 years now), but if they and/or their fans are constantly getting burned out on longform games and never finishing them then maybe it is a sign that A) They should change their format for those games or Stop playing those games.
Also there's definitely some blame to be laid on the fans - after 8 years they should know by now that the Grumps will almost never finish a long game especially if they were pressured into it and especially if Arin gets into his habit of searching for trite reasons to hate it. None of what happens should be any surprise to anyone.
But they do change. 4 years ago, the average video length was closer to 10-15 minutes. Now they usually have one half hour video a day instead.
And they do finish games if pushed. They finished Majora's Mask and Mario Galaxy 2 just recently. They were doing more on their longform streams, but the Backstreet Boys Reunion Tour ruined that for now.
You know what? Nanowrimo's cancelled on account of the world is stupid.
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
edited January 2021
I do agree that Danganronpa can sometimes throw the same info in the player's face over and over but that just means there is less of an excuse for Arin to ignore information and then bitch about it later.
He actively did this in the last trial and he and Dan and already doing it in the current trial with some really hard to miss clues so he is kind of the poster child for why this information is constantly thrown into the player's face so they remember key shit.
I don't think the logic is as bad as he claims it is though there are some parts with real stupid shit like byakuya. What a shit ass character. I beat Danganronpa no problem when I played it years and years ago without failing and I'm definitely not great at solving this kind of stuff.
Edit: Also, Arin is doing great at begrudgingly reading the tutorials when a new mechanic is introduced into the trials cause fuck them for wanting to add something new to each trial to try and keep it interesting. At least doing the tutorial he has been able to effectively use the mechanics which I do like.
Arin has only set the skills for the trial once. Ignored it on the first trial, did it on the second, and ignored it on the third because I'm assuming he forgot it was a thing.
Arin and Dan both comment how the downtime parts of Danganronpa where you hang out with another student doesn't seem to do anything or just be a sort of pointless side thing and I guess it is too hard to remember that after almost every time they've hung out with someone the text explicitly tells them their skill points went up or on occasion that they've gained a new skill.
There is a lot of classic Arin ignoring major stuff and then bitching about the game.
Stragint on
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
I'm catching up on the Danganronpa episodes. Arin's completely out-of-nowhere impression of Dr. Light from Mega Man 8 for no apparent reason cracked me up.
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That's gonna be something
Explain?
Oh, it's just a superstition. Kingdom Hearts has a reputation of killing the Let's Play channels that play it before they can complete the game. Two/Super Best Friends Play is the most famous example I can think of, though obviously the channel had other problems and Kingdom Hearts was just the game they were playing at the time. Penny Parker talked about it on her playthrough of the game on Snapcube, which, incidentally, hasn't finished yet.
Fair enough. Not a criticism at Penny, just a comment that the Curse remains Unbroken. Though I am curious what other projects she's working on. Is another album or a Sonic Redubbed coming up?
Back to the Grumps, will it just be Arin, or will other Grumps join up at times? Has he ever played it before?
Oh, this is KH2? My mistake, I didn't realize he already did the original. On the plus side, the gameplay on 2 is way better...
...give or take the Little Mermaid section.
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
Hmm... middle is true in the sense of he's currently doing it but... getting to Sora is the prologue. The game just STARTS at that point.
Edit: He went about 15 hours or so and then had to take a break because talking without rest was hurting his voice. He's going to pick it up at New Year's it would be a good idea to have guests wander by if possible at that point to save his voice (but maybe not possible with Covid or his setup).
Also I cannot for the life of me remember playing the second game, even though I'm 90% sure I did - but I don't have any trophies?!?! It's kind of strange! I'm not sure what's happened there.
Edit: It took me a few minutes to realize they were reusing audio. I legit thought Dan and Arin helped out on-site, which was nuts considering the pandemic.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
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It has been the best in the Franchise so far for me.
The first case alone is a hell of twist and the best first case by light years over the others.
I watched one of the Halloween ones, and uhh...Super Mega Monopoly.
I'm looking forward to Super Ross World though, whenever that's going to happen if I haven't somehow missed it.
I don't remember him saying anything derogatory about visual novels as a medium, either.
Fuck off Arin.
Edit - Like he declares he "loves" it anyway but frankly I think it's because of the eyes it brings to the channel, or in other words a cynical "it makes me money to do" take.
Now, to use that to imply that visual novels are in some way lesser than videogames is bullshit. But I don't feel like that was the point he was trying to make there.
Saying it's not a game is... wrong, but this is an argument visual novels have been surrounded by forever. It's also not a value statement though. He directly after that says the game elements are bad, and so I think if it were just a visual novel he'd probably enjoy it more.
In trying to think of a better way to put it, let me say this: games can incorporate elements of cinema, but that doesn't make the game a movie. Some visual novels have gameplay elements to them, but that doesn't make them a game. I feel like they need to be driven more by gameplay than the 'choose your own adventure' elements to cross that threshold. And of course, a work can be both. But a visual novel can also just be a multimedia form of choose your own adventure book.
@Henroid To further my second argument (that you are misunderstanding Arin's point), the full quote is "If I was trying to make it a good game, I would make huge changes, um, but I mean it's a fuckin' visual novel, it's not a game." That first part you cut off changes the meaning of the rest of the sentence. He's saying those aspects aren't so important because it's trying to be something other than just a game.
More and more I think its YouTube that I'm getting turned off of rather than game grumps specifically.
I watched the anime adaptation after the Grumps started playing the game and enjoyed it, but the game itself (particularly during the trial sections) looks like something I would find tedious and frustrating. However, I bought some Christmas gifts from Hot Topic and saw a surprising amount of merch for Danganronpa (specifically featuring art from the first game, which came out in 2010), so it's definitely popular despite that.
Again, I did enjoy the anime, and I am looking forward to Arin and Dan's reactions to the late game plot twists.
(ranty) It doesn't help that they deadass refuse to alter their content structure to accommodate long-form games, I guess so ThE aLgOrItHm doesn't get angry at them for breaking Optimum Video Length or whatever the content creator term is for it. Far as I can tell it hasn't really changed since I stopped watching them like four years ago - two videos a day, around half hour apiece, what do they think is going to happen with a 30+ hour game? It'll either never get finished or it'll go into episode 60+
In fact that's why I largely stopped watching to begin with, when months-long stretches of two videos per day of the same two games going into episode 70+(hi Mario Maker) started becoming the norm. When you like what they're playing you don't notice it, but when it's something you don't resonate with or don't want to get spoiled on, golly gee guess I'll come back in a couple of months then! Then Twitch started rising in popularity and small wonder I eventually drifted away entirely.
It's a comedy channel. If you find yourself angry or just even bored with it why not just move on?
It's changed pretty dramatically from that. Now they do longer one a day videos with some off days. Longer like 45-55 min, not like 2 hours or whatever. Getting mad at them for doing what will keep their business and livelihoods the healthiest is somewhere in between pointless (watch something else) and toxic (it's... free content, cool off) though.
Looking at their videos for the past few months their stance on occasional 45-50 minutes videos does not appear to have changed much - an exception for a one-off or if they really want to wrap a series up, but hardly a norm - their overwhelming average still looks to be 35 minutes +/- 5. The problem is exactly the opposite - if they want to play a 30+ hour game then the 35 minutes per session for 70 episodes format is not the best viewing experience.
But yeah, the easy solution for me was to just watch other things(again I haven't watched them for going on 4 years now), but if they and/or their fans are constantly getting burned out on longform games and never finishing them then maybe it is a sign that A) They should change their format for those games or
Also there's definitely some blame to be laid on the fans - after 8 years they should know by now that the Grumps will almost never finish a long game especially if they were pressured into it and especially if Arin gets into his habit of searching for trite reasons to hate it. None of what happens should be any surprise to anyone.
Who knows if they'll move on to the sequels though.
But they do change. 4 years ago, the average video length was closer to 10-15 minutes. Now they usually have one half hour video a day instead.
And they do finish games if pushed. They finished Majora's Mask and Mario Galaxy 2 just recently. They were doing more on their longform streams, but the Backstreet Boys Reunion Tour ruined that for now.
He actively did this in the last trial and he and Dan and already doing it in the current trial with some really hard to miss clues so he is kind of the poster child for why this information is constantly thrown into the player's face so they remember key shit.
I don't think the logic is as bad as he claims it is though there are some parts with real stupid shit like byakuya. What a shit ass character. I beat Danganronpa no problem when I played it years and years ago without failing and I'm definitely not great at solving this kind of stuff.
Edit: Also, Arin is doing great at begrudgingly reading the tutorials when a new mechanic is introduced into the trials cause fuck them for wanting to add something new to each trial to try and keep it interesting. At least doing the tutorial he has been able to effectively use the mechanics which I do like.
Arin has only set the skills for the trial once. Ignored it on the first trial, did it on the second, and ignored it on the third because I'm assuming he forgot it was a thing.
Arin and Dan both comment how the downtime parts of Danganronpa where you hang out with another student doesn't seem to do anything or just be a sort of pointless side thing and I guess it is too hard to remember that after almost every time they've hung out with someone the text explicitly tells them their skill points went up or on occasion that they've gained a new skill.
There is a lot of classic Arin ignoring major stuff and then bitching about the game.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.