There’s a lot of context missing if so. Karate Kid 2 isn’t even really about Daniel, but Miyagi’s past coming to haunt him. Daniel is the protagonist of the film, but all the drama and character interactions are based on a decades long blood feud between Miyagi and an old friend turned enemy. Daniel just gets mixed into it because of his relationship with Miyagi even though the film shot from Daniel’s perspective.
The “live or die man” makes perfect sense in context of the film. Hell, a huge part of Johnny’s animosity towards Kreese happens in the second movie. It’s a good film, I’d highly recommend watching it.
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I haven't watched any of them, but feel like I know the first one from social osmosis. I didn't even know there was a second, or like, apparently 5 more.
Honestly didn't have any interest in watching them blind and these flashes aren't a great trailer lol
1. I have no idea why Daniel thought the plan with the landlord would work. Worse case scenario, Krease asks Silver to get him a new and better gym, and Danny eats the cost for nothing.
2. Danny should have installed security cameras by now. His house was already vandalized the previous season.
3. I don't mind the idea of them not calling the cops after the fact. Too much fear of retaliation.
4. Danny defeats Krease with a trick he learned from a lion turtle.
5. Johnny's skill level is interesting, since he learned everything he knows from Krease and hasn't really had a reason to learn more since leaving the team in high school, yet the only person who can even fight him to a draw is Daniel who basically dedicated his life to karate.
6. I'm going to assume that the people Robbie met in prison will be joining cobra kai.
I haven't watched any of them, but feel like I know the first one from social osmosis. I didn't even know there was a second, or like, apparently 5 more.
Honestly didn't have any interest in watching them blind and these flashes aren't a great trailer lol
It’s really gonna take a lot away from the show then.
Something like The Mandalorian takes place in the same universe as the movies, but the story is a separated and can be enjoyed on its own. Cobra Kai isn’t the same as it’s a direct continuation of those film’s stories.
Trying to enjoy Cobra Kai without having seen the films is like trying to enjoy Endgame without watching at least Infinity War.
If nothing else, the first two movies are the most relevant, thought the third flick comes up occasionally in the show. The Next Karate Kid (fourth film) hasn’t been brought up at all and the “fifth” doesn’t even count since it just apes on the title.
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Robbie got done dirty in several ways this season, both in story and in the writing, and so it leaves him in this bad place where he is definitely a key character to the story, but his response at this point should've been to tell everyone to go screw and just leave the Valley to start over somewhere else, or at the very least not continue to be involved with the Karate Blood Feud that got him sent to jail.
Matev on
"Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
Hail Hydra
+9
amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
Yeah Robbie is really lost in the woods right now, he needs FOCUS!
FOCUS DANIEL SAN!
OH!
Season 4, Hillary Swank now RUNS the military program at that school she went to and they send Robbie there, which is more believable then her being a governor that has to call out the National Guard to the valley, but I'd still like to see that too.
What worries me is that all the footage of young Kreese is making me feel sorry for him and empathise with him (?!)
(though I'm only on episode 6 so I'm sure I'll hate him again soon enough....)
I think it definitely explains Kreese without making me feel sorry for him. I DO feel sorry for the life he led after Vietnam, because it's clear living in shared VA housing (based on Season 2) isn't exactly the life he dreamt of.
I'm wondering how they're going to explain Terry Silver. I know that Thomas Ian Griffith still acts although he's done WAY MORE behind the camera and as a writer the last 20 years. (seriously look him up) but I'm wondering how they'll explain the character. Like is he still an 80s style corporate snake? Did his companies survive 2008/2009?
We're most of the way through S3, midway through E8 I think.
Johnny / Amanda just left the Christmas party which was absolutely wonderful. Amanda's whole attitude about any of this is the best part of the show hands down. I'm really really going to be upset of Johnny messes things up with Maria - I get that Ali is something special, but I can see the impending train of self-sabotage running headlong into him.
All I'm thinking though with the kids is holy shit, Tori (especially, but also the rest of them) are going to get tried as adults for Home Invasion and Attempted Murder for this whole shit show. The school fight was bad enough, but actually breaking into someone's home for the expressed purpose of great bodily harm is no joke, nothing shrugged off, go straight to prison sort of shit. Sam would be absolutely justified in shooting / stabbing any or all of them for that, especially the girl who has already assaulted her with a weapon and is on probation for it.
Hawk did his turn and would probably get some leniency for it, but they are committing a lot of felonies for a gang that just caused a school-wide brawl that paralyzed another kid.
I still can't understand why charges weren't pressed for Dimitri's arm, I get that some suspension of disbelief is necessary but that's a bit much.
Also two seasons ago the All Valley council made Johnny attest that Kreese wasn't involved in Cobra Kai in any way and clearly knew who he was / what he was and that he had assaulted a student, so that doesn't mesh up with the whole 'thank you for your service...' bullshit. I know I'm overthinking it, but sometimes the play-it-straight drama doesn't mesh well with the whole (necessary) over the top that is necessary for Karate Kid universe to work.
A minor peeve is how Kreese's service is being presented. Yes there were war crimes on both sides, but the NVA didn't make American POWs fight to the death for their entertainment. War is horrible enough without leaning into the 'lost causer' Vietnam MIA / POW propaganda.
Still, looking forward to finishing it up tonight and hopefully some of my expectations or issues turn out to be wonderful subversions.
If I understood, the first season was the All Valley tournament "board", this was the city council, so they may not know who Kreese is, especially 30 years later. That being said, All Valley letting in a Cobra Kai with Kreese in it seems... surprising.
Hawk's heel-face turn while narratively good to see, felt... unearned? Basically, they made it as though it entirely hung on Johnny's speech at the school, because you are talking about a guy who is watching his former best friend get the shit kicked out of him and getting pissed off, after just a few episodes back BREAKING HIS GODDAMN ARM IN COLD BLOOD... And Demetri just happily accepts him back. Clearly there was some kind of time break (not hard to believe, since we KIND of got one for Miguel), so hard feelings may have faded, but...
What really galls me is Robby. There was a ton of potential character growth after his fight with the bully in Juvie... and it just ended and he just went over to Kreese. I dunno, I'm not super keen on the writing for him here. My concern is that they are pushing him to Kreese to give a foil for Miguel.
Miguel, his family, and Johnny just WORK as a group. The acting/chemistry is fantastic, and really anchored by the Miguel/Johnny relationship that has really been just A+ since early Season 1. I think you had a similarly good relationship with Daniel and Robby, but... yah.
Finally, what I'm not huge on is Tori. She plays a great villain, but we spent SO MUCH TIME in season 1 (and many times since) talking about how it's not good guys and bad guys, but just people. Even Kreese, has good motivations. Tori on the other hand, is basically just arch. She had some good background STARTING to develop early on, then just turned into "well, I guess it only matters who wins in the end". I really think there was some quality to have been mined out of her and Kreese interacting, as much time as they spent justifying Kreese (and he really was.. not justified, but understandable).
Hawks turn around happened because his entire teen years have basically been in survival mode, and Krease warped survival mode into warrior mentality. If he didn't crush the opposition, then he would end up getting crushed. The fact that Demitri of all people kicked him through a trophy case the previous season probably didn't help.
Listening to Kyler comment about how "they never stood a chance" made him realize that he was no longer fighting a war, he was now attacking his own friends in a state of weakness. I mean, Miguel is obvious. But Demitri just had his arm broken not to long ago, and clearly wouldn't be able to fight at 100% of his already lower capacity. Sam was going through PTSD, but I don't know if that thought ever occurred to him, and he was never friends with her regardless.
There's also shows close ups of the fact they were beating up Mitch, who was extremely loyal and capable, but was booted for not being good enough and now was being punished for that reason alone.
What worries me is that all the footage of young Kreese is making me feel sorry for him and empathise with him (?!)
(though I'm only on episode 6 so I'm sure I'll hate him again soon enough....)
I think it definitely explains Kreese without making me feel sorry for him. I DO feel sorry for the life he led after Vietnam, because it's clear living in shared VA housing (based on Season 2) isn't exactly the life he dreamt of.
I'm wondering how they're going to explain Terry Silver. I know that Thomas Ian Griffith still acts although he's done WAY MORE behind the camera and as a writer the last 20 years. (seriously look him up) but I'm wondering how they'll explain the character. Like is he still an 80s style corporate snake? Did his companies survive 2008/2009?
They're going to explain that Terry Silver became president of the US.
The season 4 tournament should be interesting, because Miguel has beaten Robbie twice, and Sam can beat Tory because of focus.
Robbie can try learning a lot of new tricks by learning to fight dirty and striking first, but I'm not sure how Tory is going to grow.
Hawk can probably beat Kyler right now, but Kyler only started training recently. He had the orienting to become the main foe in terms of background, but it doesn't really fit the story.
I assume that Krease has already realized this, and that's why he's calling for help.
+1
amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
oh god Terry Silver could be president in the KKCU
Also I like that everyone just glossed over Johnny's original idea to call it Kobra Kai Karate.
Zabrak supposedly wrote Johnny’s background character back in Karate Kid 1 and a good chunk of it was used in the flashbacks we’ve seen of his childhood, like the low self esteem stepchild with a verbally abusive stepfather.
So Zabrak seems to have genuine interest in the character.
Also, I love Ed Asner. He’s so delightfully salty.
Mild Confusion on
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There’s a lot of context missing if so. Karate Kid 2 isn’t even really about Daniel, but Miyagi’s past coming to haunt him. Daniel is the protagonist of the film, but all the drama and character interactions are based on a decades long blood feud between Miyagi and an old friend turned enemy. Daniel just gets mixed into it because of his relationship with Miyagi even though the film shot from Daniel’s perspective.
The “live or die man” makes perfect sense in context of the film. Hell, a huge part of Johnny’s animosity towards Kreese happens in the second movie. It’s a good film, I’d highly recommend watching it.
I think I like the second movie more than the first.
The first is a classic, certainly, but is also mired in 1980s teen drama stereotypes, to the point it hurts. It's saved by the karate - especially Miyagi being, in essence, Yoda and his evolving relationship with Daniel. The second movie is all about Miyagi... Daniel is primarily the audience stand-in until the final scene. And Miyagi dealing with his past is a lot more interesting to me than Daniel's story in the first movie. There's a weight to it provided by distance, time, and age that Daniel's story simply cannot have. Miyagi's story resonates far more with me, especially as I get older (going to turn 41 next month).
Definitely worth a watch. Yes, it has goofy mid-to-late 80s karate and music, but if you can look beyond that surface layer it's really solid.
Zabrak supposedly wrote Johnny’s background character back in Karate Kid 1 and a good chunk of it was used in the flashbacks we’ve seen of his childhood, like the low self esteem stepchild with a verbally abusive stepfather.
So Zabrak seems to have genuine interest in the character.
Also, I love Ed Asner. He’s so delightfully salty.
I'm sorry, I have to.
Zabka is not a Zabrak.
+11
amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
My new goal in life is to look like one of these people for the rest of my life.
Basically be Johnny through my 40s and 50s and Kreese in my 60s and 70s
Hawks turn around happened because his entire teen years have basically been in survival mode, and Krease warped survival mode into warrior mentality. If he didn't crush the opposition, then he would end up getting crushed. The fact that Demitri of all people kicked him through a trophy case the previous season probably didn't help.
Listening to Kyler comment about how "they never stood a chance" made him realize that he was no longer fighting a war, he was now attacking his own friends in a state of weakness. I mean, Miguel is obvious. But Demitri just had his arm broken not to long ago, and clearly wouldn't be able to fight at 100% of his already lower capacity. Sam was going through PTSD, but I don't know if that thought ever occurred to him, and he was never friends with her regardless.
There's also shows close ups of the fact they were beating up Mitch, who was extremely loyal and capable, but was booted for not being good enough and now was being punished for that reason alone.
Sure, it just didn't feel as earned as it could be. I should dig up old quotes, I believe I said somewhere that his return to light could be one of the most compelling stories here. It already was a pretty honest look at someone who has been beat down their whole life finding power and losing themselves in it. Even his initial fear of the bullies joining Cobra Kai was there (and his reaction by just beating the everliving crap out of the one guy). Him going from a guy preying on the weak, to the point he broke his former best friend's arm in cold blood, to suddenly defending the weak and getting accepted back just came... quick and without penalty. Hopefully that gets some exploration in S4.
Sure, it just didn't feel as earned as it could be. I should dig up old quotes, I believe I said somewhere that his return to light could be one of the most compelling stories here. It already was a pretty honest look at someone who has been beat down their whole life finding power and losing themselves in it. Even his initial fear of the bullies joining Cobra Kai was there (and his reaction by just beating the everliving crap out of the one guy). Him going from a guy preying on the weak, to the point he broke his former best friend's arm in cold blood, to suddenly defending the weak and getting accepted back just came... quick and without penalty. Hopefully that gets some exploration in S4.
That's the thing though. Hawk's MO isn't to prey on people for being "weak." His MO is that he was constantly in warrior mode, and targeting potential threats so that he wouldn't have to do with his own feeling of weakness.
That's why he attacked Robbie after losing -- despite being strong. It's also why he was genuinely shocked and upset when Bert was booted from Cobra -- despite being weak. Moreover, in his eyes, "weakness" is less about physical prowess and more about mental perseverance. Johnny is "weak" because he cut ties, even though he could clearly the best fighter to have ever come from Cobra Kai. Bert is physically weak, but he's also an ally, and you can't afford to lose allies in a war.
Why did he target Demetri in season 2? First, it was because Demetri left a bad review of the dojo, which he saw as an act of war. Later, they're bonding at a party, but he lashes out when Demetri tries to challenge his "defeat is not an option" mindset, which he's not ready to let go of because he doesn't want to return to being a loser. And then finally at the end of the season, he underestimates Demetri and suffers a humiliating defeat. So he's worried about making that mistake again.
If hawks problems come from being in warrior mode, then the worst thing you can do is trying to covering him with penalties. It simply isn't productive.
A big part of his misconceptions is that he felt he owed his newfound strength to the dojo, rather than the people who created it. So he saw Krease as loyal and Johnny as the traitor. The epiphany was realizing that he cared more about the people than the dojo, which made Krease the traitor and Johnny the loyal one.
That's fair, I want to do a rewatch for S1/S2 again anyways, so maybe I missed that, I could have sworn he was showing the worst aspects of KK1 Cobra Kai (picking on weak kids, etc) Be happy to be wrong in this instance.
My take on Hawk is that after probably his entire life of low self esteem and being bullied, he finally discovered confidence and he’s absolutely terrified of going back to who he was before karate.
That’s why he attacked Dimetri in season 2 after that negative Yelp review; any attack on Cobra Kai is taken as a personal attack on Hawk’s self-worth. And because Johnny never taught Hawk how to control his new strength, Hawk resorts to all that he knows, which is aggressively fighting. You see a similar thing when Hawk hits Robbie from behind; Robbie insulted Hawk’s hair which is a part of his new self image so he lashed out.
This is all of course exacerbated once Kreese gets in the mix and preys upon Hawk’s self-doubt. I don’t think Hawk wants to be an asshole, it’s just the only thing he knows that separated his old self that was constantly bullied, and his new self that has a sense of personal worth.
It doesn’t excuse Hawk’s behavior, but I still find it believable. That said, I hope they expand upon his turning from Kreese in season four cause Dimetri and the others kinda accepted him back rather easily. But to be fair, Johnny nearly crippled Daniel in the first movie more than once, so there’s a foundation there to help Hawk seek forgiveness from the others in a mature manner.
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That's fair, I want to do a rewatch for S1/S2 again anyways, so maybe I missed that, I could have sworn he was showing the worst aspects of KK1 Cobra Kai (picking on weak kids, etc) Be happy to be wrong in this instance.
Bert is CLEARLY outmatched by someone who can literally jump over him because apparently weight classes don't exist in this world, and the team is still yelling "No mercy!" and "get him in a bag" as if his opponent is the one in trouble.
Johnny's philosophy wasn't about picking on the "weak", it was about being "badass." His first fight in the series was helping Miguel out after Miguel was being roughed up. Remember, in Johnny's eyes, Danny was always the aggressor. And that's the philosophy he tried to instill on his students.
In season 1, Hawk's main issue is that he takes "flip the narrative" too far. His goal isn't to pick on the weak, but to redefine who he is in order to draw attention away from his disfigurement. He absolutely feeds on crowds and adoration, which is a big part of his insecurity. And that's why he lashes out at Robbie, because he doesn't want to go back to where he was.
In season two at the mall, he tells Demetri, "It didn't have to be this way, you could have joined Cobra Kai!" In his eyes, Demetri betrayed him by being a quitter and by giving up. Because deep down, he wanted Demetri fighting by his side. Then he faces a public defeat by the Miyagi kids, and his girlfriend breaks up with him, and he responds by vandalism. Johnny is super upset, and Hawk is too cowardly to confess, and Krease takes advantage of this this with his "we're all in this together" speech to reinforce the warrior mentality. Hawk buys into this mindset, because it means he doesn't have to take responsibility for his actions as an individual, so he puts all his loyalty into the idea of the group.
It doesn’t excuse Hawk’s behavior, but I still find it believable. That said, I hope they expand upon his turning from Kreese in season four cause Dimetri and the others kinda accepted him back rather easily. But to be fair, Johnny nearly crippled Daniel in the first movie more than once, so there’s a foundation there to help Hawk seek forgiveness from the others in a mature manner.
Demetri thought that Hawk was about to straight up murder him -- only for Hawk to do the completely opposite and be his savior in an otherwise hopeless battle.
Do you know the emotions of Stockholm syndrome? Well, it's like that, only in this case the "kidnapper" actually wants redemption and went out of his way to save people.
And the simple fact is... holding grudges at people can be incredibly tiring. Sometimes, it's just easier to move on so you don't have the negative emotions of resentment poisoning your life. And they were already taught to forgive people the previous season when they welcomed former Cobra Kai people into their dojo, who then fought by their side in the finale. And then Demetri was the one who made the speech about doing this again with Eagle Fang.
The real question is: How much time passed between episodes? I've never broken an arm before, but I would have assumed they would have taken a while to heal?
Man, the karate fighting needs to stay in the dojo and at tournaments in this show. The only good fight scene was the season 1 lunch room, everything in season 2 and 3 is a boring gymnastics showcase with people getting "hit" in ways that would put them in the fucking hospital and just shrugging it off.
You're going to have a hard time finding that handles this type of fighting realistically because realistically people shouldn't be fighting in the first place.
The real question is: How much time passed between episodes? I've never broken an arm before, but I would have assumed they would have taken a while to heal?
Given that we go from 2 weeks from the start of school to Christmas Eve (or in the vicinity) in the finale, about 3-4 months have passed, which is sufficient time for broken arm to heal if that incident happened within a day or 2 of the season starting.
"Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
I just rewatched the first two movies and the second one is still my favorite. Shame the Okinawa characters don’t get as much screen in the series as they deserve, but I get it as Cobra Kai is more Johnny’s story than Daniel’s, with Daniel being more of a secondary protagonist.
Man, Miyagi rules in part two.
Also, I forgot how much the theme song is appropriate for the movie:
Not just for Kumiko and Daniel’s teenage romance, but also how Daniel and Miyagi further bond over lost fathers and Miyagi reconnecting with his old flame.
Such a good film with so many layers.
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I was 8-years old when I saw this in the theaters and I didn't understand the importance of the scene. It took me a long time before I got it.
Even watching it now, I can see the subtleties of how well it was acted. Pat Morita played a very convincing drunk, funny and sad. The song he sang here was actually sung in the camps that he was stuck in as a 9-year old. The whole experience was scaring and led to him battling alcoholism for most of his life. Really makes the entire scene more powerful.
And even Ralph Macchio had some great acting in the scene. Macchio was 24 in the original movie and really played up the confused 16-year old having no idea of the importance of the medal. The bow after reading the letter was a great touch.
The studio wanted to leave this scene out, which would have been a huge mistake. Honestly, I can't imagine this movie or franchise would have been near as good had this scene got left out.
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Oh yeah, that’s 100% a huge part of why Miyagi is such an amazing character. Instead of being the stereotypical old, wise master, they gave him flaws and vulnerability whilst also exposing both to Daniel. Miyagi isn’t just a trope, but a person.
The further characterization of Miyagi drives Daniel forward and makes it believable. After all, if someone with such a tragic and storied history like Miyagi can find value in teaching a kid like Daniel, then who is he to not try his absolute best to live up to that expectation?
Such a great scene that’s further expanded on in the second movie after Miyagi’s father dies, where Daniel is there with empathy for Miyagi to lean on. Their friendship is one of the largest drivers of the movies.
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Miyagi is such an underrated character. People remember him because of his Yoda-isms, but he's a lot deeper than that. The magic of the character is that he needs Daniel as much as Daniel needs him. But it's portrayed far more naturally in the original movies than how the relationship is portrayed in the Jaden Smith/Jackie Chan reboot. There's no tearful confrontation or over-the-top training session that somehow magically heals all of his anguish. It's a process that takes time.
I mean, shit, Daniel and Miyagi don't even begin to really connect until about 2/3rds of the way through the first film. Daniel, in particular, feels animosity towards Miyagi until he's shown how tasks like waxing cars and painting fences were his training. It's pure Yoda - Daniel had to first unlearn what he had learned - in order to learn karate. Not just the physical moves, but the mindset. And even at that point it wasn't like a light switch was flicked and they were friends. It took time, measured by things like Daniel's birthday, his burgeoning relationship with Ali, etc.
So, when Miyagi shows Daniel the family dojo in the second film, where the portraits of past Miyagis hang, and Miyagi emphasises that Miyagi-Do karate is passed down from father to son, it's far more than just a bit of backstory. It's probably the most important statement in the entire franchise, for what it means to those characters, and it's presented as part of a normal conversation rather than some blatant revelation where the music swells and the camera zooms in on faces.
Seriously, everyone should watch the first two films at the very least. They're legitimately good, especially if you can look past the 1980s goofiness.
One of the messages of themes of karate kid is that Miyagi and Krease are both former veterans who were shaped by war and tragedy, but they both took the opposite lesson from it.
Krease is so obsessed with war that he sees battles that don't exist and he's trying to drag Johnny and Danny and all of his students into that world. Johnny and Danny see the school battle as a disaster, but Krease sees it as inevitable.
Cobra Kai is basically an anti war piece, but it focuses on the wars we deal with every day, and not just the ones that happen overseas.
And that's why everyone was so quick to forgive Hawk. They're preparing for war with Cobra Kai, but they're also avoiding the fights that aren't necessary. I know a lot of people who served overseas who told me it didn't hit him how fucked up a lot of the shit did was until afterwards, and I think hawks turn around was along those same lines.
It's going to be interesting to see how Johnny adapts his style to the new merger. He proved he can fight pure defense in his encounter with Robbie. And I just realized that his dominance throughout most of his fight with Krease shows just how much he's grown as a fighter, given that Krease nearly killed him the last time they seriously fought (Yes, you can blame Krease's age for a lot of that, but in this universe, old age doesn't really matter).
One of the other main messages of Karate Kid is that there are no bad students, only bad teachers. Johnny had a bad teacher, but tried to make the best of it and do better. Hawk had good intentions early on, but took Johnny's teachings further than Johnny intended and was completely corrupted by Krease before find redemption.
That was done back in S2. They also finally in-universe called the Cobra Kai style as coming from Tang Soo Do in the flashbacks, so that's where that line comes from (though that had already been "theorized" for a while.)
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There’s a lot of context missing if so. Karate Kid 2 isn’t even really about Daniel, but Miyagi’s past coming to haunt him. Daniel is the protagonist of the film, but all the drama and character interactions are based on a decades long blood feud between Miyagi and an old friend turned enemy. Daniel just gets mixed into it because of his relationship with Miyagi even though the film shot from Daniel’s perspective.
The “live or die man” makes perfect sense in context of the film. Hell, a huge part of Johnny’s animosity towards Kreese happens in the second movie. It’s a good film, I’d highly recommend watching it.
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Honestly didn't have any interest in watching them blind and these flashes aren't a great trailer lol
1. I have no idea why Daniel thought the plan with the landlord would work. Worse case scenario, Krease asks Silver to get him a new and better gym, and Danny eats the cost for nothing.
2. Danny should have installed security cameras by now. His house was already vandalized the previous season.
3. I don't mind the idea of them not calling the cops after the fact. Too much fear of retaliation.
4. Danny defeats Krease with a trick he learned from a lion turtle.
5. Johnny's skill level is interesting, since he learned everything he knows from Krease and hasn't really had a reason to learn more since leaving the team in high school, yet the only person who can even fight him to a draw is Daniel who basically dedicated his life to karate.
6. I'm going to assume that the people Robbie met in prison will be joining cobra kai.
It’s really gonna take a lot away from the show then.
Something like The Mandalorian takes place in the same universe as the movies, but the story is a separated and can be enjoyed on its own. Cobra Kai isn’t the same as it’s a direct continuation of those film’s stories.
Trying to enjoy Cobra Kai without having seen the films is like trying to enjoy Endgame without watching at least Infinity War.
If nothing else, the first two movies are the most relevant, thought the third flick comes up occasionally in the show. The Next Karate Kid (fourth film) hasn’t been brought up at all and the “fifth” doesn’t even count since it just apes on the title.
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Seeing footage of young Daniel in Season 3 is making me want to watch the second movie...
Is he more like a plot device than a character then this season?
(we're only 6 episodes in so I was hoping he'd improve / get some personality)
FOCUS DANIEL SAN!
OH!
Season 4, Hillary Swank now RUNS the military program at that school she went to and they send Robbie there, which is more believable then her being a governor that has to call out the National Guard to the valley, but I'd still like to see that too.
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What worries me is that all the footage of young Kreese is making me feel sorry for him and empathise with him (?!)
(though I'm only on episode 6 so I'm sure I'll hate him again soon enough....)
I think it definitely explains Kreese without making me feel sorry for him. I DO feel sorry for the life he led after Vietnam, because it's clear living in shared VA housing (based on Season 2) isn't exactly the life he dreamt of.
I'm wondering how they're going to explain Terry Silver. I know that Thomas Ian Griffith still acts although he's done WAY MORE behind the camera and as a writer the last 20 years. (seriously look him up) but I'm wondering how they'll explain the character. Like is he still an 80s style corporate snake? Did his companies survive 2008/2009?
Hawks turn around happened because his entire teen years have basically been in survival mode, and Krease warped survival mode into warrior mentality. If he didn't crush the opposition, then he would end up getting crushed. The fact that Demitri of all people kicked him through a trophy case the previous season probably didn't help.
Listening to Kyler comment about how "they never stood a chance" made him realize that he was no longer fighting a war, he was now attacking his own friends in a state of weakness. I mean, Miguel is obvious. But Demitri just had his arm broken not to long ago, and clearly wouldn't be able to fight at 100% of his already lower capacity. Sam was going through PTSD, but I don't know if that thought ever occurred to him, and he was never friends with her regardless.
There's also shows close ups of the fact they were beating up Mitch, who was extremely loyal and capable, but was booted for not being good enough and now was being punished for that reason alone.
They're going to explain that Terry Silver became president of the US.
Robbie can try learning a lot of new tricks by learning to fight dirty and striking first, but I'm not sure how Tory is going to grow.
Hawk can probably beat Kyler right now, but Kyler only started training recently. He had the orienting to become the main foe in terms of background, but it doesn't really fit the story.
I assume that Krease has already realized this, and that's why he's calling for help.
Also I like that everyone just glossed over Johnny's original idea to call it Kobra Kai Karate.
I get the sense he's really enjoying playing that character again!
(as are the actors playing Daniel and Johnny)
So Zabrak seems to have genuine interest in the character.
Also, I love Ed Asner. He’s so delightfully salty.
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I think I like the second movie more than the first.
The first is a classic, certainly, but is also mired in 1980s teen drama stereotypes, to the point it hurts. It's saved by the karate - especially Miyagi being, in essence, Yoda and his evolving relationship with Daniel. The second movie is all about Miyagi... Daniel is primarily the audience stand-in until the final scene. And Miyagi dealing with his past is a lot more interesting to me than Daniel's story in the first movie. There's a weight to it provided by distance, time, and age that Daniel's story simply cannot have. Miyagi's story resonates far more with me, especially as I get older (going to turn 41 next month).
Definitely worth a watch. Yes, it has goofy mid-to-late 80s karate and music, but if you can look beyond that surface layer it's really solid.
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I'm sorry, I have to.
Zabka is not a Zabrak.
Basically be Johnny through my 40s and 50s and Kreese in my 60s and 70s
They do not age.
: D
Sure, it just didn't feel as earned as it could be. I should dig up old quotes, I believe I said somewhere that his return to light could be one of the most compelling stories here. It already was a pretty honest look at someone who has been beat down their whole life finding power and losing themselves in it. Even his initial fear of the bullies joining Cobra Kai was there (and his reaction by just beating the everliving crap out of the one guy). Him going from a guy preying on the weak, to the point he broke his former best friend's arm in cold blood, to suddenly defending the weak and getting accepted back just came... quick and without penalty. Hopefully that gets some exploration in S4.
That's the thing though. Hawk's MO isn't to prey on people for being "weak." His MO is that he was constantly in warrior mode, and targeting potential threats so that he wouldn't have to do with his own feeling of weakness.
That's why he attacked Robbie after losing -- despite being strong. It's also why he was genuinely shocked and upset when Bert was booted from Cobra -- despite being weak. Moreover, in his eyes, "weakness" is less about physical prowess and more about mental perseverance. Johnny is "weak" because he cut ties, even though he could clearly the best fighter to have ever come from Cobra Kai. Bert is physically weak, but he's also an ally, and you can't afford to lose allies in a war.
Why did he target Demetri in season 2? First, it was because Demetri left a bad review of the dojo, which he saw as an act of war. Later, they're bonding at a party, but he lashes out when Demetri tries to challenge his "defeat is not an option" mindset, which he's not ready to let go of because he doesn't want to return to being a loser. And then finally at the end of the season, he underestimates Demetri and suffers a humiliating defeat. So he's worried about making that mistake again.
If hawks problems come from being in warrior mode, then the worst thing you can do is trying to covering him with penalties. It simply isn't productive.
A big part of his misconceptions is that he felt he owed his newfound strength to the dojo, rather than the people who created it. So he saw Krease as loyal and Johnny as the traitor. The epiphany was realizing that he cared more about the people than the dojo, which made Krease the traitor and Johnny the loyal one.
That’s why he attacked Dimetri in season 2 after that negative Yelp review; any attack on Cobra Kai is taken as a personal attack on Hawk’s self-worth. And because Johnny never taught Hawk how to control his new strength, Hawk resorts to all that he knows, which is aggressively fighting. You see a similar thing when Hawk hits Robbie from behind; Robbie insulted Hawk’s hair which is a part of his new self image so he lashed out.
This is all of course exacerbated once Kreese gets in the mix and preys upon Hawk’s self-doubt. I don’t think Hawk wants to be an asshole, it’s just the only thing he knows that separated his old self that was constantly bullied, and his new self that has a sense of personal worth.
It doesn’t excuse Hawk’s behavior, but I still find it believable. That said, I hope they expand upon his turning from Kreese in season four cause Dimetri and the others kinda accepted him back rather easily. But to be fair, Johnny nearly crippled Daniel in the first movie more than once, so there’s a foundation there to help Hawk seek forgiveness from the others in a mature manner.
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Here's one of my favorite moments from season 1:
Bert is CLEARLY outmatched by someone who can literally jump over him because apparently weight classes don't exist in this world, and the team is still yelling "No mercy!" and "get him in a bag" as if his opponent is the one in trouble.
Johnny's philosophy wasn't about picking on the "weak", it was about being "badass." His first fight in the series was helping Miguel out after Miguel was being roughed up. Remember, in Johnny's eyes, Danny was always the aggressor. And that's the philosophy he tried to instill on his students.
In season 1, Hawk's main issue is that he takes "flip the narrative" too far. His goal isn't to pick on the weak, but to redefine who he is in order to draw attention away from his disfigurement. He absolutely feeds on crowds and adoration, which is a big part of his insecurity. And that's why he lashes out at Robbie, because he doesn't want to go back to where he was.
In season two at the mall, he tells Demetri, "It didn't have to be this way, you could have joined Cobra Kai!" In his eyes, Demetri betrayed him by being a quitter and by giving up. Because deep down, he wanted Demetri fighting by his side. Then he faces a public defeat by the Miyagi kids, and his girlfriend breaks up with him, and he responds by vandalism. Johnny is super upset, and Hawk is too cowardly to confess, and Krease takes advantage of this this with his "we're all in this together" speech to reinforce the warrior mentality. Hawk buys into this mindset, because it means he doesn't have to take responsibility for his actions as an individual, so he puts all his loyalty into the idea of the group.
Demetri thought that Hawk was about to straight up murder him -- only for Hawk to do the completely opposite and be his savior in an otherwise hopeless battle.
Do you know the emotions of Stockholm syndrome? Well, it's like that, only in this case the "kidnapper" actually wants redemption and went out of his way to save people.
And the simple fact is... holding grudges at people can be incredibly tiring. Sometimes, it's just easier to move on so you don't have the negative emotions of resentment poisoning your life. And they were already taught to forgive people the previous season when they welcomed former Cobra Kai people into their dojo, who then fought by their side in the finale. And then Demetri was the one who made the speech about doing this again with Eagle Fang.
The real question is: How much time passed between episodes? I've never broken an arm before, but I would have assumed they would have taken a while to heal?
You're going to have a hard time finding that handles this type of fighting realistically because realistically people shouldn't be fighting in the first place.
Given that we go from 2 weeks from the start of school to Christmas Eve (or in the vicinity) in the finale, about 3-4 months have passed, which is sufficient time for broken arm to heal if that incident happened within a day or 2 of the season starting.
Man, Miyagi rules in part two.
Also, I forgot how much the theme song is appropriate for the movie:
Not just for Kumiko and Daniel’s teenage romance, but also how Daniel and Miyagi further bond over lost fathers and Miyagi reconnecting with his old flame.
Such a good film with so many layers.
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I was 8-years old when I saw this in the theaters and I didn't understand the importance of the scene. It took me a long time before I got it.
Even watching it now, I can see the subtleties of how well it was acted. Pat Morita played a very convincing drunk, funny and sad. The song he sang here was actually sung in the camps that he was stuck in as a 9-year old. The whole experience was scaring and led to him battling alcoholism for most of his life. Really makes the entire scene more powerful.
And even Ralph Macchio had some great acting in the scene. Macchio was 24 in the original movie and really played up the confused 16-year old having no idea of the importance of the medal. The bow after reading the letter was a great touch.
The studio wanted to leave this scene out, which would have been a huge mistake. Honestly, I can't imagine this movie or franchise would have been near as good had this scene got left out.
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The further characterization of Miyagi drives Daniel forward and makes it believable. After all, if someone with such a tragic and storied history like Miyagi can find value in teaching a kid like Daniel, then who is he to not try his absolute best to live up to that expectation?
Such a great scene that’s further expanded on in the second movie after Miyagi’s father dies, where Daniel is there with empathy for Miyagi to lean on. Their friendship is one of the largest drivers of the movies.
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I mean, shit, Daniel and Miyagi don't even begin to really connect until about 2/3rds of the way through the first film. Daniel, in particular, feels animosity towards Miyagi until he's shown how tasks like waxing cars and painting fences were his training. It's pure Yoda - Daniel had to first unlearn what he had learned - in order to learn karate. Not just the physical moves, but the mindset. And even at that point it wasn't like a light switch was flicked and they were friends. It took time, measured by things like Daniel's birthday, his burgeoning relationship with Ali, etc.
So, when Miyagi shows Daniel the family dojo in the second film, where the portraits of past Miyagis hang, and Miyagi emphasises that Miyagi-Do karate is passed down from father to son, it's far more than just a bit of backstory. It's probably the most important statement in the entire franchise, for what it means to those characters, and it's presented as part of a normal conversation rather than some blatant revelation where the music swells and the camera zooms in on faces.
Seriously, everyone should watch the first two films at the very least. They're legitimately good, especially if you can look past the 1980s goofiness.
Krease is so obsessed with war that he sees battles that don't exist and he's trying to drag Johnny and Danny and all of his students into that world. Johnny and Danny see the school battle as a disaster, but Krease sees it as inevitable.
Cobra Kai is basically an anti war piece, but it focuses on the wars we deal with every day, and not just the ones that happen overseas.
And that's why everyone was so quick to forgive Hawk. They're preparing for war with Cobra Kai, but they're also avoiding the fights that aren't necessary. I know a lot of people who served overseas who told me it didn't hit him how fucked up a lot of the shit did was until afterwards, and I think hawks turn around was along those same lines.
It's going to be interesting to see how Johnny adapts his style to the new merger. He proved he can fight pure defense in his encounter with Robbie. And I just realized that his dominance throughout most of his fight with Krease shows just how much he's grown as a fighter, given that Krease nearly killed him the last time they seriously fought (Yes, you can blame Krease's age for a lot of that, but in this universe, old age doesn't really matter).
One of the other main messages of Karate Kid is that there are no bad students, only bad teachers. Johnny had a bad teacher, but tried to make the best of it and do better. Hawk had good intentions early on, but took Johnny's teachings further than Johnny intended and was completely corrupted by Krease before find redemption.
That was done back in S2. They also finally in-universe called the Cobra Kai style as coming from Tang Soo Do in the flashbacks, so that's where that line comes from (though that had already been "theorized" for a while.)