I flat out murdered the two Evolve Shamans I saw. MVP? The Brute. Shamans make it cheap as hell and pairs nicely with Bloodsworn.
I feel Scion on it's own is better suited against big boards as it can target up to 3 targets where Brute needs damaged creatures to be cheaper and Bloodworm to be better. Scion scales better with Stage Dive or Galakrond which is awesome.
I feel Skipper and Armor Smith also synergise with Scion a tad better as well, for even more damage / health.
A second brawl would be preferable if you don't have Barov as you can play it sooner then the dragon, but it's certainly not a bad pick.
But hey, if it works!
Deck feels really good against Rogue, Hunter and Priest as well by the way. Especially Rogue is favored. Druid is race though, before the taunt trains come.
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We’ve got a small balance patch with a few big changes planned for release this Friday, January 8!
Standard Balance Updates
Edwin VanCleef
Old: [Costs 3] → New: [Costs 4]
Dev Comment: The last few weeks have been the best Edwin has ever performed as an individual card (the highest win rate card in multiple Rogue archetypes). Alongside cards like Foxy Fraud and Shadowstep, the frequency of early 8/8 or 10/10 Edwin VanCleefs reached a point we are no longer comfortable with. We want to evaluate how the rest of Rogue's kit performs without this very powerful iteration of Edwin. Cards like Foxy Fraud, Swindle, and Prize Plunderer are important pieces for future expansions and card interactions, so we'll be keeping close tabs on how they perform with the influx of new cards and Edwin's nerf.
Boggspine Knuckles
Old: 4 Attack → New: 3 Attack
Dev Comment: We're lowering the attack on Boggspine Knuckles in order to cut into the fluidity of Evolve Shaman, increasing the required investment of playing a 5-mana weapon without a free Dread Corsair, and reduce the overall damage output the deck is capable of over multiple weapon charges. This change lowers the amount of explosive plays available to Evolve Shaman and should create an overall healthier meta.
Battlegrounds Balance Update
Elistra the Immortal
Old: 7 Attack, 7 Health → New: 4 Attack, 4 Health
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Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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+5
GrobianWhat's on sale?Pliers!Registered Userregular
Nerfing Elistra is probably fine. She was too good. I don't know how that specific nerf plays out.
I would like to have more BG changes. I feel the gulf between good and bad heroes is too big and spells don't really help. You can usually die to bad luck (getting matched to top players exclusively, not hitting good minions/triples, getting bad spells) in the mid game easily, but if you play too conservative you will always lose to high rollers anyway. So it's often the crrect play to just greed it and pray and that doesn't feel very good.
We’ve got a small balance patch with a few big changes planned for release this Friday, January 8!
Standard Balance Updates
Edwin VanCleef
Old: [Costs 3] → New: [Costs 4]
Dev Comment: The last few weeks have been the best Edwin has ever performed as an individual card (the highest win rate card in multiple Rogue archetypes). Alongside cards like Foxy Fraud and Shadowstep, the frequency of early 8/8 or 10/10 Edwin VanCleefs reached a point we are no longer comfortable with. We want to evaluate how the rest of Rogue's kit performs without this very powerful iteration of Edwin. Cards like Foxy Fraud, Swindle, and Prize Plunderer are important pieces for future expansions and card interactions, so we'll be keeping close tabs on how they perform with the influx of new cards and Edwin's nerf.
Boggspine Knuckles
Old: 4 Attack → New: 3 Attack
Dev Comment: We're lowering the attack on Boggspine Knuckles in order to cut into the fluidity of Evolve Shaman, increasing the required investment of playing a 5-mana weapon without a free Dread Corsair, and reduce the overall damage output the deck is capable of over multiple weapon charges. This change lowers the amount of explosive plays available to Evolve Shaman and should create an overall healthier meta.
Battlegrounds Balance Update
Elistra the Immortal
Old: 7 Attack, 7 Health → New: 4 Attack, 4 Health
never thought i'd see the fucking day they nerf Edwin
they even mentioned on twitter they're planning on HoFing him and reverting the nerf at that time
Nerfing Elistra is probably fine. She was too good. I don't know how that specific nerf plays out.
I would like to have more BG changes. I feel the gulf between good and bad heroes is too big and spells don't really help. You can usually die to bad luck (getting matched to top players exclusively, not hitting good minions/triples, getting bad spells) in the mid game easily, but if you play too conservative you will always lose to high rollers anyway. So it's often the crrect play to just greed it and pray and that doesn't feel very good.
It weakens her as a triple reward early on in the game (where she was FAR too strong) but retains her unique use-case as a tech card to protect taunts. It's still fine in the lategame; 7 health/attack did not matter in the lategame, the effect was what mattered.
I think 3 attack on Knuckles changes virtually nothing. Dread Corsair costs 1 instead of 0 and you can't remove a 4 health minion on your swing turn, but those don't seem like significant impacts.
I think 3 attack on Knuckles changes virtually nothing. Dread Corsair costs 1 instead of 0 and you can't remove a 4 health minion on your swing turn, but those don't seem like significant impacts.
I think 3 attack on Knuckles changes virtually nothing. Dread Corsair costs 1 instead of 0 and you can't remove a 4 health minion on your swing turn, but those don't seem like significant impacts.
The results are all that matter. If the number of Evolve Shamans drops by half over the next week, I'll consider it a good nerf.
It was one of the contributing pieces to Evolve Shaman swing turns. Clearly Team 5's intent isn't to completely torpedo Evolve Shaman to the bottom of the sea the way they did Galakrond Shaman in December 2019.
Edit: Believe it or not, there were actually already a few decks with positive win rates against Evolve Shaman, but part of the issue is that Miracle Rogue generally pounded on them, so they were tough decks to try to bring into a meta heavy with both. Of course Miracle Rogue should still be able to live on with nerfed (or replaced) Edwin, so it remains to be seen how much the meta will be opened up for the counters.
I'm guessing I know the answer, but does completing the Jaina/Rexxar campaign again to get the Achievements (which claim to reward a pack) actually get you another class pack?
Apparently the HoF is going away in it's current incarnation and a new system is coming into place. No other details given.
Hall of Fame will be Hall of Fame'd?
I guess a (monthly?) system where some cards are banned and some cards are released back into the meta would certainly keep things interesting.
Especially if one can earn those 'old' cards from brawls or adventures.
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The last time they did that we had Evolve Quest Shaman.
I'm sure they will make mistakes along the way. Depends on how fast they will adapt and evolve themselves. I mean, they are quicker with Nerfs and Changes nowadays. Hope they become even quicker, but I understand it's a tough decision between let's see if the meta can figure it out first and changing things to quickly.
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Apparently the HoF is going away in it's current incarnation and a new system is coming into place. No other details given.
Hall of Fame will be Hall of Fame'd?
I guess a (monthly?) system where some cards are banned and some cards are released back into the meta would certainly keep things interesting.
Especially if one can earn those 'old' cards from brawls or adventures.
Plus this would be a great way to sell/give away more older packs. A win-win!
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evolve mechanics have literally never not been broken so i dont know why they keep printing and pushing new ones
find another fucking direction for the class you goblins
The mechanic would work better if there were high mana cost duds for minions to evolve into. A Shaman can throw down that Mortals Are So Squishy dude without fear because there's no 10-mana Hai'reek.
emnmnme on
0
ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
evolve mechanics have literally never not been broken so i dont know why they keep printing and pushing new ones
find another fucking direction for the class you goblins
The mechanic would work better if there were high mana cost duds for minions to evolve into. A Shaman can throw down that Mortals Are So Squishy dude without fear because there's no 10-mana Hai'reek.
evolve mechanics have literally never not been broken so i dont know why they keep printing and pushing new ones
find another fucking direction for the class you goblins
The mechanic would work better if there were high mana cost duds for minions to evolve into. A Shaman can throw down that Mortals Are So Squishy dude without fear because there's no 10-mana Hai'reek.
Making new bad high cost cards (duds) is not the answer to the Evolve problem. It's not even a bandaid.
The answer is to stop making Evolve mechanics. The answer to any design problem is to directly address it, not inadvertently change it via introducing more randomness so that like maybe 1 time out of 10 they get a dud. Cause those 9 other times feel bad for the person playing against Shaman, and that 1 time feels bad for the Shaman player (and yes, it's important for the people playing the game to have fun on both sides, like if you're playing a deck whose entire build-around is mana-cheating out high-cost dudes then it better feel fuckin' good when you mana-cheat those out). But the problem occurs in the first place when the frustration outweighs the fun, and currently that's where we're at.
Perhaps evolve should change minions into tokens with power and toughness equal to their cost, and not even up their cost by 1.
I gave this 5 seconds of thought so I might eat my words by making it worse.
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Evolve should just silence the minions after they've been evolved.
Depends on how many low cost minions with high stats we have that have drawbacks, but it's a good start.
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zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
Evolve as a one off is not that great. The 0 point evolve was a good swing card but it was never just wrecking the field. It’s the weapon where on turn 4 (with coin) you can drop it 2 minions (for free) and attack giving huge value then dropping 3-4 minions on the next turn and swinging again for value. The back to back hits where it’s like turn 4 you have 2 5 cost minions then turn 5 you have 3 4 cost minions and a 2 cost minions as well as removing 2 threats with the knucks. It’s a big move. And revolve makes it so that you can make smaller moves.
Aggro Druid fell apart after the Voracious Reader nerf, while Secret Mage has continued to refine. New T1 is Secret Mage, Odd Paladin, Darkglare, Kingsbane, and Reno Priest.
Not just Sayge but also Rigged Faire Game drawing 3. It's pretty common to see 25+ cards every game now, which is also why all the secrets but Explosive Runes and Rigged Faire Game are 1 ofs now.
The even more interesting development is that the increased focus on board development and pushing minion damage has led to cutting Ice Block.
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Posts
I feel Scion on it's own is better suited against big boards as it can target up to 3 targets where Brute needs damaged creatures to be cheaper and Bloodworm to be better. Scion scales better with Stage Dive or Galakrond which is awesome.
I feel Skipper and Armor Smith also synergise with Scion a tad better as well, for even more damage / health.
A second brawl would be preferable if you don't have Barov as you can play it sooner then the dragon, but it's certainly not a bad pick.
But hey, if it works!
Deck feels really good against Rogue, Hunter and Priest as well by the way. Especially Rogue is favored. Druid is race though, before the taunt trains come.
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Text dump:
Standard Balance Updates
Edwin VanCleef
Old: [Costs 3] → New: [Costs 4]
Dev Comment: The last few weeks have been the best Edwin has ever performed as an individual card (the highest win rate card in multiple Rogue archetypes). Alongside cards like Foxy Fraud and Shadowstep, the frequency of early 8/8 or 10/10 Edwin VanCleefs reached a point we are no longer comfortable with. We want to evaluate how the rest of Rogue's kit performs without this very powerful iteration of Edwin. Cards like Foxy Fraud, Swindle, and Prize Plunderer are important pieces for future expansions and card interactions, so we'll be keeping close tabs on how they perform with the influx of new cards and Edwin's nerf.
Boggspine Knuckles
Old: 4 Attack → New: 3 Attack
Dev Comment: We're lowering the attack on Boggspine Knuckles in order to cut into the fluidity of Evolve Shaman, increasing the required investment of playing a 5-mana weapon without a free Dread Corsair, and reduce the overall damage output the deck is capable of over multiple weapon charges. This change lowers the amount of explosive plays available to Evolve Shaman and should create an overall healthier meta.
Battlegrounds Balance Update
Elistra the Immortal
Old: 7 Attack, 7 Health → New: 4 Attack, 4 Health
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
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I would like to have more BG changes. I feel the gulf between good and bad heroes is too big and spells don't really help. You can usually die to bad luck (getting matched to top players exclusively, not hitting good minions/triples, getting bad spells) in the mid game easily, but if you play too conservative you will always lose to high rollers anyway. So it's often the crrect play to just greed it and pray and that doesn't feel very good.
never thought i'd see the fucking day they nerf Edwin
they even mentioned on twitter they're planning on HoFing him and reverting the nerf at that time
It weakens her as a triple reward early on in the game (where she was FAR too strong) but retains her unique use-case as a tech card to protect taunts. It's still fine in the lategame; 7 health/attack did not matter in the lategame, the effect was what mattered.
A good nerf that I'm definitely sold on.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
The results are all that matter. If the number of Evolve Shamans drops by half over the next week, I'll consider it a good nerf.
Also it's not a Hall of Faming, but I'll take the Edwin nerf.
Time to collect 2400 dust.
Darkmoon Faire has been the ultimate expansion of vindication.
Edit: Believe it or not, there were actually already a few decks with positive win rates against Evolve Shaman, but part of the issue is that Miracle Rogue generally pounded on them, so they were tough decks to try to bring into a meta heavy with both. Of course Miracle Rogue should still be able to live on with nerfed (or replaced) Edwin, so it remains to be seen how much the meta will be opened up for the counters.
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Hall of Fame will be Hall of Fame'd?
I guess a (monthly?) system where some cards are banned and some cards are released back into the meta would certainly keep things interesting.
Especially if one can earn those 'old' cards from brawls or adventures.
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I'm sure they will make mistakes along the way. Depends on how fast they will adapt and evolve themselves. I mean, they are quicker with Nerfs and Changes nowadays. Hope they become even quicker, but I understand it's a tough decision between let's see if the meta can figure it out first and changing things to quickly.
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Plus this would be a great way to sell/give away more older packs. A win-win!
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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find another fucking direction for the class you goblins
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
The mechanic would work better if there were high mana cost duds for minions to evolve into. A Shaman can throw down that Mortals Are So Squishy dude without fear because there's no 10-mana Hai'reek.
I always get the duds.
Making new bad high cost cards (duds) is not the answer to the Evolve problem. It's not even a bandaid.
The answer is to stop making Evolve mechanics. The answer to any design problem is to directly address it, not inadvertently change it via introducing more randomness so that like maybe 1 time out of 10 they get a dud. Cause those 9 other times feel bad for the person playing against Shaman, and that 1 time feels bad for the Shaman player (and yes, it's important for the people playing the game to have fun on both sides, like if you're playing a deck whose entire build-around is mana-cheating out high-cost dudes then it better feel fuckin' good when you mana-cheat those out). But the problem occurs in the first place when the frustration outweighs the fun, and currently that's where we're at.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
I gave this 5 seconds of thought so I might eat my words by making it worse.
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Oo, oo, Evolve now affects all minions on both sides of the board. Problem solved.
Depends on how many low cost minions with high stats we have that have drawbacks, but it's a good start.
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Aggro Druid fell apart after the Voracious Reader nerf, while Secret Mage has continued to refine. New T1 is Secret Mage, Odd Paladin, Darkglare, Kingsbane, and Reno Priest.
The even more interesting development is that the increased focus on board development and pushing minion damage has led to cutting Ice Block.
Edit: for me 11 days is quick, ok? Ok?!
https://hsreplay.net/replay/7faLBMfXcFcS6jBo47WSaD
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Or heroes that are stealthed :cool: