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[BATTLETECH/MechWarrior] Sea Fox merchants buy PGI lostech using Terra-based shell company

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Posts

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    The main error is in thinking that an AC20 projectile would be 10 times larger in every dimension than an AC 2. If it does 10x the damage it would have 10x the mass and so an AC2 might be 25mm then an AC 20 would be 53mm (at the same velocity load) not whatever they had it at.

    That’s assuming the same velocity. A .45 pistol throws a huge bullet in comparison to something like a five seven pistol but the velocity is much lower, you would need a much bigger size gun to match the same velocities.

    The barrel length at least on the ACs should be relatively in the same ballpark,the 20 only weighs about twice as much as the 2 IIRC, and with the lower range I think its reasonable to assume the AC20 would be throwing out projectiles a lot slower than the AC2.

    If it’s thrown faster then a 25mm can have a AC/20 impact damage just on a higher charge. So the same rules apply for any type of energy conversion. If the AC/20 is slower than an AC/2 then it needs a shorter barrel and it needs less relative charge which means that the conversion ratio for the ammo holds pretty well. If the AC/20 is faster then it needs a longer barrel (maybe) and more charge and again the conversion should hold pretty well.

    wbBv3fj.png
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    I thought that was the whole point of mechs like the rifleman?

    In theory yeah. In practice they get dumpstered like every other mech by aerospace.

    But, gah, talking about this is making me want to load back up MWO... It's been some time.

    BetsuniElvenshaeJaysonFour
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited January 11
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    The main error is in thinking that an AC20 projectile would be 10 times larger in every dimension than an AC 2. If it does 10x the damage it would have 10x the mass and so an AC2 might be 25mm then an AC 20 would be 53mm (at the same velocity load) not whatever they had it at.

    That’s assuming the same velocity. A .45 pistol throws a huge bullet in comparison to something like a five seven pistol but the velocity is much lower, you would need a much bigger size gun to match the same velocities.

    The barrel length at least on the ACs should be relatively in the same ballpark,the 20 only weighs about twice as much as the 2 IIRC, and with the lower range I think its reasonable to assume the AC20 would be throwing out projectiles a lot slower than the AC2.

    If it’s thrown faster then a 25mm can have a AC/20 impact damage just on a higher charge. So the same rules apply for any type of energy conversion. If the AC/20 is slower than an AC/2 then it needs a shorter barrel and it needs less relative charge which means that the conversion ratio for the ammo holds pretty well. If the AC/20 is faster then it needs a longer barrel (maybe) and more charge and again the conversion should hold pretty well.

    If you are assuming damage = kinetic energy then it doesn’t matter whether you have a lighter projectile going fast or a heavy projectile going slower but there are going to be a lot of secondary ballistic effects to each option.

    Kinetic energy = (1/2)mv^2 but a 10kg projectile going 10m/s is going to behave much differently than a .1kg projectile going 100m/s even though in theory they are both going to require the same amount of propellant to fire and do the same damage on hit.

    Jealous Deva on
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Sure but again this doesn’t matter. The damage scale and the ammo scale are the same. And that is all that matters to the analysis.

    wbBv3fj.png
  • BetsuniBetsuni UM-R60L Talisker IVRegistered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I thought that was the whole point of mechs like the rifleman?

    In theory yeah. In practice they get dumpstered like every other mech by aerospace.

    But, gah, talking about this is making me want to load back up MWO... It's been some time.

    You should. Even with the idiots it is still fun to just jump in to pilot a robot to shoot things.

    oosik_betsuni.png
    Steam: betsuni7
    H3KnucklesInquisitor
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Sure but again this doesn’t matter. The damage scale and the ammo scale are the same. And that is all that matters to the analysis.

    Ah, I see what you mean, it wouldn’t affect tonnage of ammo or damage.

    It would affect things like range pretty majorly though.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Sure but again this doesn’t matter. The damage scale and the ammo scale are the same. And that is all that matters to the analysis.

    Ah, I see what you mean, it wouldn’t affect tonnage of ammo or damage.

    It would affect things like range pretty majorly though.

    Oh yea. AC big has less range specifically because of balance

    wbBv3fj.png
    H3Knuckles
  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I thought that was the whole point of mechs like the rifleman?

    In theory yeah. In practice they get dumpstered like every other mech by aerospace.

    But, gah, talking about this is making me want to load back up MWO... It's been some time.

    During the Clan Invasion out of all the Inner Sphere's military forces (conventional ground, Mechwarriors and Aerospace Jockeys) only the Aerospace pilots regularly and continually trounced their Clanner counterparts. A lot of the victories the Inner Sphere had over the Clanners were thanks in large part to their air superiority. During the Clan Invasion if you had to be in the Inner Sphere military being an aerospace jock was hands down the safest job.

    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
    H3KnucklesInquisitor
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Axen wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I thought that was the whole point of mechs like the rifleman?

    In theory yeah. In practice they get dumpstered like every other mech by aerospace.

    But, gah, talking about this is making me want to load back up MWO... It's been some time.

    During the Clan Invasion out of all the Inner Sphere's military forces (conventional ground, Mechwarriors and Aerospace Jockeys) only the Aerospace pilots regularly and continually trounced their Clanner counterparts. A lot of the victories the Inner Sphere had over the Clanners were thanks in large part to their air superiority. During the Clan Invasion if you had to be in the Inner Sphere military being an aerospace jock was hands down the safest job.

    So what you're saying is that once again, it's the Veritechs that save the day?

    xrg69vnhpi2m.png


    Checks out!

    H3KnucklesSteelhawkBetsunimanwiththemachinegunInquisitorElvenshaeIanator
  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    That's the one thing that's always amused me about Battletech.

    GIANT UNSTOPPABLE FUTURISTIC STOPMY DOOM ROBOTS

    ...

    that get utterly fucking clowned by a decent airforce :P

    manwiththemachinegun
  • monkeykinsmonkeykins Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I thought that was the whole point of mechs like the rifleman?

    In theory yeah. In practice they get dumpstered like every other mech by aerospace.

    But, gah, talking about this is making me want to load back up MWO... It's been some time.

    I dropped back in when I got tired of waiting on matchmaking in Star Wars Squadrons and Acitvision killed Modern Warfare then I finished MW5. It is still lots of fun. I love those end-of-match jitters I get when my Commando is still alive. The whole "I found an Assault, can I get behind it without them noticing, do real damage, then get away without falling apart" stuff is intoxicating.

    BetsuniNipsH3Knuckles
  • HenroidHenroid Affiliate Streamer Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    I have a vague memory of playing Mechwarrior 2 and getting my ass kicked by air units. Or maybe I'm imagining it.

    Affiliate on Twitch (henroidt) - 10pm to 2am PST
    Currently need help with living expenses. Relevant link is on my Twitch page.
  • HenroidHenroid Affiliate Streamer Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Oh hey, in 9 hours in MWO an event is going live. It's your standard "play the game" shit; match score accumulation, breaking components, victory counts, piloting each mech class, etc. The rewards are pretty much all huge C-bills and some MC, along with a 3 days of premium time.

    Affiliate on Twitch (henroidt) - 10pm to 2am PST
    Currently need help with living expenses. Relevant link is on my Twitch page.
    BetsuniNipsGnome-InterruptusH3Knuckles
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    That's the one thing that's always amused me about Battletech.

    GIANT UNSTOPPABLE FUTURISTIC STOPMY DOOM ROBOTS

    ...

    that get utterly fucking clowned by a decent airforce :P

    Sounds realistic...

    Lasers and AMS would help out the mechs a lot vs air but that works both ways.

    HappylilElf
  • HenroidHenroid Affiliate Streamer Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited January 12
    Hey you know what's fucking hilarious?

    Catching a Myst Lynx Piranha face to face trying to squirrel when you anticipate where it's going to run to, and alphaing it in the face with two LBX10s and 3 SRM6s.

    Henroid on
    Affiliate on Twitch (henroidt) - 10pm to 2am PST
    Currently need help with living expenses. Relevant link is on my Twitch page.
    BullheadBetsuniElvenshaeNipsGnome-InterruptusH3KnucklesIanator
  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Oh hey, in 9 hours in MWO an event is going live. It's your standard "play the game" shit; match score accumulation, breaking components, victory counts, piloting each mech class, etc. The rewards are pretty much all huge C-bills and some MC, along with a 3 days of premium time.

    Plus there’s going to be a 50% off sale for mechs and engines it sounds like

    H3Knuckles
  • monkeykinsmonkeykins Registered User regular
    I saw the sale and jumped to my garbage Firestarter, who was running a super slow 90kph and had 12 empty slots. Turns out I had an XL260 from who knows where sitting around, so I can move at 120 now instead, for free.

    NobodyBullheadBetsuniNipsH3Knuckles
  • HenroidHenroid Affiliate Streamer Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited January 12
    I tried the free trash can just now in a match. I made it 2 and a half minute in before all my ammo was expended and got blown up.

    Edit - I shot all of it at a couple of Assault class mechs.

    Henroid on
    Affiliate on Twitch (henroidt) - 10pm to 2am PST
    Currently need help with living expenses. Relevant link is on my Twitch page.
    BetsuniNipsH3KnucklesJaysonFourIanator
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    That's the one thing that's always amused me about Battletech.

    GIANT UNSTOPPABLE FUTURISTIC STOPMY DOOM ROBOTS

    ...

    that get utterly fucking clowned by a decent airforce :P

    I mean... this is neither unrealistic nor unreasonable. It’s more unreasonable that mechs beat air units.

    So let’s figure some modern military doctrine and think about why things exist.

    Currently the superiority of forces is:

    Air>armor>infantry.

    But the value of forces in controlling actions and territory is

    Infantry>armor>air.

    A tank can not control a building. It cannot direct people, it can not search or truly occupy an area. But infantry can hide behind it. It kills enemy infantry. It does not have a duration on its time in combat as it can be resupplied by the same mechanisms that resupply infantry. It is an anvil for which to support the infantry which does all the necessary functions of war.

    A air unit is even worse. It cannot stick around for all that long (even the long duration drones), needs a base of operations, has a restricted view, and is more likely to destroy its own infantry or armor. Infantry cannot hide behind it. It needs its own logistics that do not support infantry. But it kills tanks. It is a hammer.

    This is just like the ideas that mechs need to beat tanks on a flat featureless battlefield in order for them to be more generally useful. They do not. Because while armor does need to be able to fight armor the purpose of armor is to support infantry and control territory and not to kill armor. And if a mech does that better than a tank it’s a better armor unit.

    On a flat featureless battlefield the winner isnt the one with the better armor unit its the one with the better Air Force. An airplane can launch a missile from outside of the operational range of a tank regardless of the weaponry the tank has*. And a strong air force therefore wins. It gets to shoot without getting shot back, provided it can find the ground targets to kill.

    *well not strictly but generally assuming a similar tech level and laser technology that does not allow significantly missile/projectile interception. This is because the energy a projectile carries is equal to its starting energy plus it’s projectile energy. So a gun/missile fired from a tank has a velocity of X+20mph that the tank is going and a gun fired from a plane has a velocity of X+1000mph the plane is going. And so the plane can fire that gun/missile from further away and then turn around and fly out of the range of ground based equipment. And on top of that the projectile from the plane has the advantage of starting much higher.

    wbBv3fj.png
    Gnome-InterruptusH3Knuckles
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    I have a vague memory of playing Mechwarrior 2 and getting my ass kicked by air units. Or maybe I'm imagining it.

    In Mechwarrior 2, and Mercenaries (the buggiest and best expansion of MW2), aerotech assets could be really, really dangerous--but that's owed in large part to:

    1) 'Mech acquisition could be really slow, and so in Mercs, it was possible you'd be stuck with in a OK-ish 45-tonne medium mech...but spend a lot of money hiring a 60-tonne flying fortress loaded with LRMs and lasers and would just laugh at you as it killed everything in their parth.
    2) Enemy AI was weirdly unaggressive towards fighters, at least in the earlier releases. They had no trouble tracking and shooting them down, since the AI is basically a perfect shot when it needs to be, but they had a bad habit of just ignoring them unless they loitered directly above them.

    On the other hand, enemy helicopters and fighters--which tended to be on the much smaller side, which was also true about most of the potential hires to be fair--were pretty easy to dispeense with.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • monkeykinsmonkeykins Registered User regular
    Nobody wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Oh hey, in 9 hours in MWO an event is going live. It's your standard "play the game" shit; match score accumulation, breaking components, victory counts, piloting each mech class, etc. The rewards are pretty much all huge C-bills and some MC, along with a 3 days of premium time.

    Plus there’s going to be a 50% off sale for mechs and engines it sounds like

    When they are on sale for 50% they reduce the value of selling them back, correct? Because I have some I don't like very much and was thinking of selling, but I should probably do it now if there is a sale starting tonight and they also reduce the selling price.

  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    monkeykins wrote: »
    Nobody wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Oh hey, in 9 hours in MWO an event is going live. It's your standard "play the game" shit; match score accumulation, breaking components, victory counts, piloting each mech class, etc. The rewards are pretty much all huge C-bills and some MC, along with a 3 days of premium time.

    Plus there’s going to be a 50% off sale for mechs and engines it sounds like

    When they are on sale for 50% they reduce the value of selling them back, correct? Because I have some I don't like very much and was thinking of selling, but I should probably do it now if there is a sale starting tonight and they also reduce the selling price.

    Nope, you get the same amount selling the chassis as normal

    H3Knuckles
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    I don’t recall any air assets in mech 2 (non-mercs). It’s all clan v clan stuff and they don’t bid fighters because it’s not honorable!!!

    wbBv3fj.png
    Gnome-InterruptusH3Knuckles
  • ErlkönigErlkönig Registered User regular
    edited January 12
    Goumindong wrote: »
    I don’t recall any air assets in mech 2 (non-mercs). It’s all clan v clan stuff and they don’t bid fighters because it’s not honorable!!!

    There were air assets in Mechwarrior 2...but it was restricted to helicopters and incredibly slow moving bombers.

    EDIT - Oh, and the occasional dropship.

    Erlkönig on
    | Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
    Gnome-InterruptusH3Knuckles
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited January 12
    Goumindong wrote: »
    That's the one thing that's always amused me about Battletech.

    GIANT UNSTOPPABLE FUTURISTIC STOPMY DOOM ROBOTS

    ...

    that get utterly fucking clowned by a decent airforce :P

    I mean... this is neither unrealistic nor unreasonable. It’s more unreasonable that mechs beat air units.

    So let’s figure some modern military doctrine and think about why things exist.

    Currently the superiority of forces is:

    Air>armor>infantry.

    But the value of forces in controlling actions and territory is

    Infantry>armor>air.

    A tank can not control a building. It cannot direct people, it can not search or truly occupy an area. But infantry can hide behind it. It kills enemy infantry. It does not have a duration on its time in combat as it can be resupplied by the same mechanisms that resupply infantry. It is an anvil for which to support the infantry which does all the necessary functions of war.

    A air unit is even worse. It cannot stick around for all that long (even the long duration drones), needs a base of operations, has a restricted view, and is more likely to destroy its own infantry or armor. Infantry cannot hide behind it. It needs its own logistics that do not support infantry. But it kills tanks. It is a hammer.

    This is just like the ideas that mechs need to beat tanks on a flat featureless battlefield in order for them to be more generally useful. They do not. Because while armor does need to be able to fight armor the purpose of armor is to support infantry and control territory and not to kill armor. And if a mech does that better than a tank it’s a better armor unit.

    On a flat featureless battlefield the winner isnt the one with the better armor unit its the one with the better Air Force. An airplane can launch a missile from outside of the operational range of a tank regardless of the weaponry the tank has*. And a strong air force therefore wins. It gets to shoot without getting shot back, provided it can find the ground targets to kill.

    *well not strictly but generally assuming a similar tech level and laser technology that does not allow significantly missile/projectile interception. This is because the energy a projectile carries is equal to its starting energy plus it’s projectile energy. So a gun/missile fired from a tank has a velocity of X+20mph that the tank is going and a gun fired from a plane has a velocity of X+1000mph the plane is going. And so the plane can fire that gun/missile from further away and then turn around and fly out of the range of ground based equipment. And on top of that the projectile from the plane has the advantage of starting much higher.

    Isn’t the presence of advanced missile interception tech one of the arguments for why everyone doesn’t just use OTH missiles in Battletech though? Also why they use missile packs rather than single missiles usually?

    Realistically the real life paradigm of OTH missiles reigning supreme will probably be over as soon as someone invents a power source/ battery sufficient to power a decent laser from something smaller than a ship or building. This is already starting to become the prevailing thinking for naval anti-missile defense and fixed anti-missile defense systems IRL.

    Jealous Deva on
  • HenroidHenroid Affiliate Streamer Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    I tried the free trash can just now in a match. I made it 2 and a half minute in before all my ammo was expended and got blown up.

    Edit - I shot all of it at a couple of Assault class mechs.
    I was tooling around in the garage and man, it's really funny that in exchange for 30 kph, you can get a subtraction from your engine slot of 2.5 tons. Wow! It's a free engine! Making a push up to a grade 100 XL is a huge difference in the Urbanmech's maneuverability. That said, no barely-slotted-on AC20. I took it into the testing grounds to experiment with how an AC5 would feel but that really doesn't do shit on its own. It could fit a 10 but it's gonna end up with just 46 shots for a potential of 460 damage, provided you live long enough to get them all out and that they all are in optimal range.

    Having a hard time justifying keeping this stupid thing. I'm not hurting for mech bays at all but I mean, I have a literal trash can sitting in one.

    Affiliate on Twitch (henroidt) - 10pm to 2am PST
    Currently need help with living expenses. Relevant link is on my Twitch page.
  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    I think most people just end up running 4 MPL+ MG (players choice on which MG) or go for the STD engine with AC/20 build to meme with

    I think you can’t sell it, people have reported that it doesn’t show up in the inventory screen.

    Betsuni
  • BetsuniBetsuni UM-R60L Talisker IVRegistered User regular
    Nobody wrote: »
    I think most people just end up running 4 MPL+ MG (players choice on which MG) or go for the STD engine with AC/20 build to meme with

    I think you can’t sell it, people have reported that it doesn’t show up in the inventory screen.

    The 4MPL and MGs build is what I used to get onto the Urbanmech leaderboards event long ago. It honestly is the second best Urbie I run behind the K9 with 5MPL. Equip it with the XL180 and yeah it does insane work with the armor quirks. Mainly because people tend to leave you for last when brawls happen.

    oosik_betsuni.png
    Steam: betsuni7
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited January 12
    Goumindong wrote: »
    That's the one thing that's always amused me about Battletech.

    GIANT UNSTOPPABLE FUTURISTIC STOPMY DOOM ROBOTS

    ...

    that get utterly fucking clowned by a decent airforce :P

    I mean... this is neither unrealistic nor unreasonable. It’s more unreasonable that mechs beat air units.

    So let’s figure some modern military doctrine and think about why things exist.

    Currently the superiority of forces is:

    Air>armor>infantry.

    But the value of forces in controlling actions and territory is

    Infantry>armor>air.

    A tank can not control a building. It cannot direct people, it can not search or truly occupy an area. But infantry can hide behind it. It kills enemy infantry. It does not have a duration on its time in combat as it can be resupplied by the same mechanisms that resupply infantry. It is an anvil for which to support the infantry which does all the necessary functions of war.

    A air unit is even worse. It cannot stick around for all that long (even the long duration drones), needs a base of operations, has a restricted view, and is more likely to destroy its own infantry or armor. Infantry cannot hide behind it. It needs its own logistics that do not support infantry. But it kills tanks. It is a hammer.

    This is just like the ideas that mechs need to beat tanks on a flat featureless battlefield in order for them to be more generally useful. They do not. Because while armor does need to be able to fight armor the purpose of armor is to support infantry and control territory and not to kill armor. And if a mech does that better than a tank it’s a better armor unit.

    On a flat featureless battlefield the winner isnt the one with the better armor unit its the one with the better Air Force. An airplane can launch a missile from outside of the operational range of a tank regardless of the weaponry the tank has*. And a strong air force therefore wins. It gets to shoot without getting shot back, provided it can find the ground targets to kill.

    *well not strictly but generally assuming a similar tech level and laser technology that does not allow significantly missile/projectile interception. This is because the energy a projectile carries is equal to its starting energy plus it’s projectile energy. So a gun/missile fired from a tank has a velocity of X+20mph that the tank is going and a gun fired from a plane has a velocity of X+1000mph the plane is going. And so the plane can fire that gun/missile from further away and then turn around and fly out of the range of ground based equipment. And on top of that the projectile from the plane has the advantage of starting much higher.

    Isn’t the presence of advanced missile interception tech one of the arguments for why everyone doesn’t just use OTH missiles in Battletech though? Also why they use missile packs rather than single missiles usually?

    Realistically the real life paradigm of OTH missiles reigning supreme will probably be over as soon as someone invents a power source/ battery sufficient to power a decent laser from something smaller than a ship or building. This is already starting to become the prevailing thinking for naval anti-missile defense and fixed anti-missile defense systems IRL.

    Sure, but even if you're not using OTH missiles an aerospace fighter launches a missile with more initial velocity and a higher launch position and so with a higher total range and more difficult interception profile(the missile is literally faster). If a plane shoots a missile from the same distance as a tank at a point defense defended target the planes missile will be exposed to the point defense fire for less time than the tank fired missile. And similarly said target is much harder to hit with return fire. If you're faster your engagement profile is always longer than your opponents given the same non-laser weaponry*. Unless laser range is such that any aerospace fighter would be swept from the sky there would be a launch profile advantage for aerospace fighters and so they would have a significant advantage over armor. And/or unless laser range/power/targeting was enough that you would also be intercepting "conventional" projectiles with them.

    *going faster even reduces the range that your enemy has on top of this because maneuvering takes energy and you have to maneuver more in order to hit a target that changes its velocity more. If two planes are flying at each other each with a net velocity towards the other of 1, plane A is traveling in a straight line with speed 1. But plane B is flying in a sine wave such that their total velocity at any one point is 1.216. The missile that plane A fires has to maneuver such that it would hit plane B given that it continued its flight path and this must be constantly updated as the flight path changes. As it turns the missile has to recalculate and turn in order to intercept its new flight path. As a result in order to travel to the same position as a missile fired at a target with a speed of 1 traveling in a straight line it must travel a longer distance.

    So the plane traveling 21.6% faster has a missile that starts with 21.6% more energy and also the enemy missile has less range as it would against a constant velocity target. The amount of less energy depends on the amount of variation in the end point that the other target can produce by maneuvering and so the higher the velocity the larger the range reduction. Now this isn't quite perfect because turning uses energy for the plane too, but in general planes have more relative fuel than missiles and so have an easier time maintaining velocity.

    This is why you still need to get behind an enemy plane in a dog fight. If you shoot a missile at them while you're traveling 500 MPH in one direction and they're traveling 500 MPH in the other direction the missile has to turn all the way around in order to hit a target running away from it. Your effective range is like... zero.

    Goumindong on
    wbBv3fj.png
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited January 12
    It makes sense that air superiority wrecks mechs, as superior airpower has always defeated armor (and essentially all ground forces). Doesn't matter much where you put the armor on a 60-ton tank when a plane can fly a mile overhead and drop a bomb on it on the order of hundreds of pounds of shaped-charge high-explosives, and mechs would be no different.

    But in the feudal nature of Battletech, aerospace fighters would be even more rare and harder to maintain than mechs. A heavily-damaged mech can still sport its entire arsenal depending on where the damage is, but you aren't going to fly around a jet fighter with a bunch of holes in it and missing half a wing. Mechs can also park and hide basically anywhere, whereas aerospace fighters need special facilities even just to land safely. And since holding territory is everything in Battletech, that means you want mechs, ground vehicles, and infantry.

    Something Battletech always needed to justify the ranges was something the anti-radar stuff from the Gundam setting, though. Then it would make a lot more sense why you don't put all your damage in one big missile that has less than a 50% chance of hitting a target or can only fire from stupid-short ranges; spread the damage into small short-range missiles and you guarantee some damage, and you can't use radar anyway so you're stuck with systems that use short-range visual locks or laser designators.

    Ninja Snarl P on
    Gnome-InterruptusH3Knuckles
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    A heavily-damaged mech can still sport its entire arsenal depending on where the damage is, but you aren't going to fly around a jet fighter with a bunch of holes in it and missing half a wing.

    Laughs in A-10

    HappylilElfBetsuniBullheadInquisitor77H3KnucklesSteelhawkyossarian_livesironsizide
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    A heavily-damaged mech can still sport its entire arsenal depending on where the damage is, but you aren't going to fly around a jet fighter with a bunch of holes in it and missing half a wing.

    Laughs in A-10

    I said a jet fighter, not tanks impersonating planes with all the subtlety of a fake mustache with googly eyes.

    ElvenshaeHappylilElfOrcaBetsunimanwiththemachinegunBullheadGlalNipsGnome-InterruptusH3KnucklesJaysonFouryossarian_livesHefflingironsizide
  • ErlkönigErlkönig Registered User regular
    Betsuni wrote: »
    Nobody wrote: »
    I think most people just end up running 4 MPL+ MG (players choice on which MG) or go for the STD engine with AC/20 build to meme with

    I think you can’t sell it, people have reported that it doesn’t show up in the inventory screen.

    The 4MPL and MGs build is what I used to get onto the Urbanmech leaderboards event long ago. It honestly is the second best Urbie I run behind the K9 with 5MPL. Equip it with the XL180 and yeah it does insane work with the armor quirks. Mainly because people tend to leave you for last when brawls happen.

    I...I only roll with this stupidity when it comes to my Urbies:

    1xHPPC + 2xML

    It's dumb...but it (sometimes) works!

    | Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
    BetsuniElvenshaeH3Knuckles
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    A heavily-damaged mech can still sport its entire arsenal depending on where the damage is, but you aren't going to fly around a jet fighter with a bunch of holes in it and missing half a wing.

    Laughs in A-10

    And even a bunch of those got shot down Desert Storm (a small fraction of the hundred I presume were operating), courtesy of similarly-aged (old) Soviet-designed surface-to-air missiles.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
    ElvenshaecB557H3Knuckles
  • SiliconStewSiliconStew Registered User regular
    I certainly enjoy coming up with ways you could logically explain the short ranges, but ultimately it's just because you play on a hex map and they didn't want all weapons firing the full length of the map.

    Though just as a counter example that these weapons do in fact have long effective ranges in universe, Aerotech uses 500m hexes at low altitude, where that same medium laser found in a mech can reach 3000m, not a piddly 270m. And a medium laser is effective out to 108,000m in space where hexes are 18km.

    Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
    H3Knuckles
  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    A heavily-damaged mech can still sport its entire arsenal depending on where the damage is, but you aren't going to fly around a jet fighter with a bunch of holes in it and missing half a wing.

    Laughs in A-10

    I said a jet fighter, not tanks impersonating planes with all the subtlety of a fake mustache with googly eyes.

    Why split the difference?



    Hang on warship, I'mma let you finish. But first I'm gonna borrow that deck!

    OrcaBetsuniNipsH3KnucklesSteelhawk
  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited January 12
    From what I’ve been reading, Aerospace Fighters are supposedly more expensive and harder to maintain than mechs.

    But, the price tag for every Aerospace fighter I checked was less than an equivalent mech.

    Example: Thunderbird (100 ton ASF) is 6,610,500 while an Atlas is 9,626,000!

    So my guess is that they are more expensive to maintain than mechs, in addition, they are probably harder to recover when destroyed.

    Let’s not talk about conventional fighters like the Mechbuster which are about half the price tag of Battlemech...

    Nobody on
  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    You forget the rule of government contracting, why have one, when you can have two for double the price?

    NobodyElvenshaeBetsuni
  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    I forgot they made a version of the Monster with alt modes

    manwiththemachinegun
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    I don't even know how you would recover an Aerospace Fighter when destroyed

    what are you going to do, pick up motherboard fragment from the RADAR controller?

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