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Booster Gold: The retcon you've never heard of!

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    jkylefultonjkylefulton Squid...or Kid? NNID - majpellRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Here's what I think we saw in BG #6 -
    The guy that came back for Daniel - that's evil future mirror universe Rip Hunter. The real Rip Hunter is the guy in the future Beetle suit.

    I'm probably wrong.

    jkylefulton on
    tOkYVT2.jpg
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    LuxLux Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Man, if that were the case, I'd be so annoyed at this god damn time travel plot device by then. It would just mean every story has the strong possibility of cheap, sloppy twists.

    Lux on
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    jkylefultonjkylefulton Squid...or Kid? NNID - majpellRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    The solicitations today mentioned a
    BLACK Beetle
    , so I'm guessing that I'm wrong.

    jkylefulton on
    tOkYVT2.jpg
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Wait, what if Blue Beetle becomes Blue Lantern?

    Fencingsax on
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    JordynJordyn Really, Commander? Probing Uranus. Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    what if the entire DCU just becomes everyone shooting different colored beams of light at each other?

    Jordyn on
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    JordynNolz.com <- All my blogs (Shepard, Wasted, J'onn, DCAU) are here now!
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    jkylefultonjkylefulton Squid...or Kid? NNID - majpellRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I think that could go one of two ways:

    IMAGE SPOILERS:
    rainbowbrite01941.jpg

    or
    DSCN1688.JPG

    jkylefulton on
    tOkYVT2.jpg
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    SquashuaSquashua __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2008
    That giant second one is not coming up.

    Oh wait, I get it. All colors = big white thing. har

    Squashua on
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    jkylefultonjkylefulton Squid...or Kid? NNID - majpellRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Yeah, I don't know why it's not coming up, it was some guy dressed as Rainbow Bright. It wasn't pretty.

    jkylefulton on
    tOkYVT2.jpg
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    Rabid_LlamaRabid_Llama Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    So I just got around to catching up and I have to say, as much as I like Ted, I don't want him sticking around.

    Rabid_Llama on
    /sig
    The+Rabid+Llama.png
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    SalmonOfDoubtSalmonOfDoubt Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Jordyn wrote: »
    what if the entire DCU just becomes everyone shooting different colored beams of light at each other?

    Infinite Carebearstare Crisis!

    SalmonOfDoubt on
    heavensidesig80.jpg
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    killing children would be hilarious
    Olivaw wrote: »
    HELLO AND WELCOME TO THE PENNY ARCADE FORUMS

    PLEASE ENJOY YOUR STAY

    AND THIS PENIS
    Man, I don't want to read about this lady's broken vagina.
    NotACrook wrote: »
    I am sitting here trying to come up with a tiered system for rating child molesters.
    cock vore is fuckin hilarious
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    MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    So I just got around to catching up and I have to say, as much as I like Ted, I don't want him sticking around.

    Go die already.

    I mean.. care to elaborate?

    Also, I'm kind of disappointed about the solicits mentioning an evil Black Beetle, just because I've thought for a while that, were Ted to ever be resurrected and wear his ICBINTJL outfit, it'd be a good name for him, allowing Jaime to keep the Blue Beetle name.

    Personally, I'd like to see Ted stick around, but with a minimal presence in Booster's series. Kind of like how Luke Cage pops up in Iron Fist to help out his pal every now and then, but otherwise keeps himself busy elsewhere. I'd kind of like to see him in Dixon's Outsiders actually. Every black ops group needs a quirky gadget guy.

    Munch on
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    Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    So I just got around to catching up and I have to say, as much as I like Ted, I don't want him sticking around.

    Ted is a much better hero dead then he ever was alive.

    Bloods End on
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    übergeekübergeek Sector 2814Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Munch wrote: »
    So I just got around to catching up and I have to say, as much as I like Ted, I don't want him sticking around.

    Go die already.

    I mean.. care to elaborate?

    Also, I'm kind of disappointed about the solicits mentioning an evil Black Beetle, just because I've thought for a while that, were Ted to ever be resurrected and wear his ICBINTJL outfit, it'd be a good name for him, allowing Jaime to keep the Blue Beetle name.

    Personally, I'd like to see Ted stick around, but with a minimal presence in Booster's series. Kind of like how Luke Cage pops up in Iron Fist to help out his pal every now and then, but otherwise keeps himself busy elsewhere. I'd kind of like to see him in Dixon's Outsiders actually. Every black ops group needs a quirky gadget guy.

    I want Ted to become a mentor to Jaime, in the way that Bruce was to Terry in Batman Beyond. I'm sure that suit can't make -every- gadget that Jaime will need, and Jaime doesn't have the scientific knowledge to use most gadgets properly. If Ted ends up back in the present and can resume his life, he'd have the money, gadgets, and contacts to help Jaime, and he wouldn't be stealing his thunder. Ted had Dan for a time to depend on, I don't see why Jaime can't benefit from all that past experience in the same way.

    übergeek on
    camo_sig.png
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    übergeekübergeek Sector 2814Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Bloods End wrote: »
    So I just got around to catching up and I have to say, as much as I like Ted, I don't want him sticking around.

    Ted is a much better hero dead then he ever was alive.

    Batman said the same thing to Superman's face at the start of Infinte Crisis. Turned out to be wrong. Ted's back, now he needs to do the thing each resurrected hero does - save life, the universe, and everything (Oh sorry that's dealing with 42, not 52). Hal did it, Supes did it, Countdown seems to be pushing Jason in that direction, and there's a few others, not to mention Marvel doing that as well.

    Ted has a bigger role to play because bringing him back as a throwaway character would just be a bad idea and piss a ton of fans that had only -started- coming to terms with his death. Now they might kill him again, but I bet it's something spectacular that everyone is going to see and this time they'll appreciate Ted and although he won't be remembered on the scale of Conner or Bart, it will have an impact. Hell, have Booster and Ted pop out of the timestream to help avert the Final Crisis, and kill him then, buying Atom the time he needs to ruin Darkseid's day.

    EDIT Also, most of us would say and some still say Jason Todd should have stayed dead. If -he- gets to live when most people want him dead and Ted dies again when no one ever thought "Man, I wish that Kord guy would just die, msot annoying character ever" there will be hell to pay.

    übergeek on
    camo_sig.png
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    Rabid_LlamaRabid_Llama Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Munch wrote: »
    So I just got around to catching up and I have to say, as much as I like Ted, I don't want him sticking around.

    Go die already.

    I mean.. care to elaborate?

    Also, I'm kind of disappointed about the solicits mentioning an evil Black Beetle, just because I've thought for a while that, were Ted to ever be resurrected and wear his ICBINTJL outfit, it'd be a good name for him, allowing Jaime to keep the Blue Beetle name.

    Personally, I'd like to see Ted stick around, but with a minimal presence in Booster's series. Kind of like how Luke Cage pops up in Iron Fist to help out his pal every now and then, but otherwise keeps himself busy elsewhere. I'd kind of like to see him in Dixon's Outsiders actually. Every black ops group needs a quirky gadget guy.

    It just totally destroys the significance of Ted's death. It cheapens all of OMAC Crisis for me and totally goes against the whole "you can't change the past" thing that Rip Hunter established in issue 5. Future Beetle showing up and saying "Lol I can" just seems so lame. I am hoping that somehow the Beetles are being mislead and Rip sets things straight (even if that means Ted eating it again).

    Rabid_Llama on
    /sig
    The+Rabid+Llama.png
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    Calamity JaneCalamity Jane That Wrong Love Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    You realize it's probably not them, right?

    Calamity Jane on
    twitter https://twitter.com/mperezwritesirl michelle patreon https://www.patreon.com/thatwronglove michelle's comic book from IMAGE COMICS you can order http://a.co/dn5YeUD
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    mattharvestmattharvest Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Munch wrote: »
    So I just got around to catching up and I have to say, as much as I like Ted, I don't want him sticking around.

    Go die already.

    I mean.. care to elaborate?

    Also, I'm kind of disappointed about the solicits mentioning an evil Black Beetle, just because I've thought for a while that, were Ted to ever be resurrected and wear his ICBINTJL outfit, it'd be a good name for him, allowing Jaime to keep the Blue Beetle name.

    Personally, I'd like to see Ted stick around, but with a minimal presence in Booster's series. Kind of like how Luke Cage pops up in Iron Fist to help out his pal every now and then, but otherwise keeps himself busy elsewhere. I'd kind of like to see him in Dixon's Outsiders actually. Every black ops group needs a quirky gadget guy.

    I want Ted to become a mentor to Jaime, in the way that Bruce was to Terry in Batman Beyond. I'm sure that suit can't make -every- gadget that Jaime will need, and Jaime doesn't have the scientific knowledge to use most gadgets properly. If Ted ends up back in the present and can resume his life, he'd have the money, gadgets, and contacts to help Jaime, and he wouldn't be stealing his thunder. Ted had Dan for a time to depend on, I don't see why Jaime can't benefit from all that past experience in the same way.

    Why, exactly, are you sure it can't make every gadget? It hasn't shown such a limitation yet...

    While I have no urge towards Ted dying, I'd rather him NOT get involved with Jamie. It seems to me that the appeal (or at least a significant part of it) of Jaime as the Beetle is that he's on a journey of discovery, learning both how and why to be a hero. He makes mistakes not because he's inept, but because he's still learning. If Ted were there, mentoring him, his mistakes would then all have to occur out of either ineptitude or failure to follow Ted's advice. I'm just not that interested in Jaime suddenly being either inept or intransigent. That's just my taste though.

    mattharvest on
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    MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    It just totally destroys the significance of Ted's death. It cheapens all of OMAC Crisis for me and totally goes against the whole "you can't change the past" thing that Rip Hunter established in issue 5. Future Beetle showing up and saying "Lol I can" just seems so lame. I am hoping that somehow the Beetles are being mislead and Rip sets things straight (even if that means Ted eating it again).

    Do you ever read Iron Fist and say, "Man, why didn't this loser stay dead? The significance of his death is totally ruined now." Or when you read about Hawkeye? Or the Thing? Or about a million other characters that have bought it and come back to life?

    That's how I look at it. To me, Blue Beetle was just a character waiting for the treatment that could have made him a badass, and he never really got it. So if he gets resurrected in order to have some cool stories told about him, isn't it worth it? Should we never have had the Sinestro Corps War, just because someone a decade ago decided, "Eh, Green Lantern needs a shake-up. Kill 'em all and we'll give the ring to a kid in a Nine Inch Nails shirt." I may be biased though, because I thought the OMAC Project sucked.

    I do agree about the time travel resurrection though. That just opens the door for all kinds of timefuckery, even though time travel's been used to save lives in the past (Hourman), and raises the question of why Booster doesn't spend every minute trying to save everyone he's lost. I've had this idea kicking around for a Blue Beetle story where he resurrects himself through a combination of cloning and cybernetics. Kind of playing with ancient Egyptian's beliefs about scarabs.
    Wikipedia wrote:
    The scarab was linked to Khepri ("he who has come into being"), the god of the rising sun. The ancients believed that the dung beetle was only male in gender, and reproduced by depositing semen into a dung ball. The supposed self-creation of the beetle resembles that of Khepri, who creates himself out of nothing.

    I think that could be interesting.

    Munch on
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    Rabid_LlamaRabid_Llama Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Munch wrote: »
    It just totally destroys the significance of Ted's death. It cheapens all of OMAC Crisis for me and totally goes against the whole "you can't change the past" thing that Rip Hunter established in issue 5. Future Beetle showing up and saying "Lol I can" just seems so lame. I am hoping that somehow the Beetles are being mislead and Rip sets things straight (even if that means Ted eating it again).

    Do you ever read Iron Fist and say, "Man, why didn't this loser stay dead? The significance of his death is totally ruined now." Or when you read about Hawkeye? Or the Thing? Or about a million other characters that have bought it and come back to life?

    No, I don't read those actually. But I see the point you are making. The thing is, while some hero ressurections are good, others just aren't necessary. Some characters are worth bringing back, some aren't. I am of the opinion that Ted is one of those that should stay dead. Like mentioned earlier, Ted was a better hero dead than he ever was alive.

    Rabid_Llama on
    /sig
    The+Rabid+Llama.png
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    MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    No, I don't read those actually. But I see the point you are making. The thing is, while some hero ressurections are good, others just aren't necessary. Some characters are worth bringing back, some aren't. I am of the opinion that Ted is one of those that should stay dead. Like mentioned earlier, Ted was a better hero dead than he ever was alive.

    What has Ted really accomplished as a corpse? He didn't give Booster motivation to be a better man, since he was still acting like a prick until Rip Hunter pulled him aside and explained to him that Skeets was evil. He didn't contribute anything to stopping Max Lord or the OMACs, since Sasha Bordeaux was the one that tipped off Batman, who was already investigating the missing Brother Eye satellite, and would have ultimately discovered Max Lord's machinations without Beetle's help, and Alex Luthor destroyed Max's metahuman files. His death was as pointless as it was contrived, relying on numerous heroes to act like A) assholes B) incompetent rookies C) incompetent asshole rookies.

    I fail to see how he's accomplishing more dead than alive. Booster can only carry on grieving for so long, and once he's done DC has only managed to lose a classic Steve Ditko creation that's been a small, but noticeable presence in the DCU since CoIE.

    I equate Beetle to Marvel's Hawkeye. He may not be a character that non-comics reading people would recognize, or even one that can carry his own solo series, but he's always popping up here and there. I think Beetle contributed a very human, down-to-Earth voice to any book he appeared in, and has a lot of potential as a kind of superscience, corporate espionage character. Losing that just so Booster can look downcast is retarded. If nobody has a good story for him that would excuse a resurrection that's one thing, but to say, "Nope, nu-uh, should never happen, don't care," seems excessive and silly.

    Munch on
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    übergeekübergeek Sector 2814Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Munch wrote: »
    So I just got around to catching up and I have to say, as much as I like Ted, I don't want him sticking around.

    Go die already.

    I mean.. care to elaborate?

    Also, I'm kind of disappointed about the solicits mentioning an evil Black Beetle, just because I've thought for a while that, were Ted to ever be resurrected and wear his ICBINTJL outfit, it'd be a good name for him, allowing Jaime to keep the Blue Beetle name.

    Personally, I'd like to see Ted stick around, but with a minimal presence in Booster's series. Kind of like how Luke Cage pops up in Iron Fist to help out his pal every now and then, but otherwise keeps himself busy elsewhere. I'd kind of like to see him in Dixon's Outsiders actually. Every black ops group needs a quirky gadget guy.

    It just totally destroys the significance of Ted's death. It cheapens all of OMAC Crisis for me and totally goes against the whole "you can't change the past" thing that Rip Hunter established in issue 5. Future Beetle showing up and saying "Lol I can" just seems so lame. I am hoping that somehow the Beetles are being mislead and Rip sets things straight (even if that means Ted eating it again).

    I already debunked Rip's reasoning. If what Rip said was true, Booster wouldn't be neede3d to go back in time because evil Supernova and Rex Hunter would have failed repeatedly like Booster did against the Joker because time would correct and protect itself. In reality it's an editorial plot armor that states that only the bad guys may change the past to further their own goals, the heroes are not allowed "just because". Rip said the things he said because he's very strict on the noninterference of time, but the whole the past can never be changed was bullshit.

    übergeek on
    camo_sig.png
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    übergeekübergeek Sector 2814Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Munch wrote: »
    So I just got around to catching up and I have to say, as much as I like Ted, I don't want him sticking around.

    Go die already.

    I mean.. care to elaborate?

    Also, I'm kind of disappointed about the solicits mentioning an evil Black Beetle, just because I've thought for a while that, were Ted to ever be resurrected and wear his ICBINTJL outfit, it'd be a good name for him, allowing Jaime to keep the Blue Beetle name.

    Personally, I'd like to see Ted stick around, but with a minimal presence in Booster's series. Kind of like how Luke Cage pops up in Iron Fist to help out his pal every now and then, but otherwise keeps himself busy elsewhere. I'd kind of like to see him in Dixon's Outsiders actually. Every black ops group needs a quirky gadget guy.

    I want Ted to become a mentor to Jaime, in the way that Bruce was to Terry in Batman Beyond. I'm sure that suit can't make -every- gadget that Jaime will need, and Jaime doesn't have the scientific knowledge to use most gadgets properly. If Ted ends up back in the present and can resume his life, he'd have the money, gadgets, and contacts to help Jaime, and he wouldn't be stealing his thunder. Ted had Dan for a time to depend on, I don't see why Jaime can't benefit from all that past experience in the same way.

    Why, exactly, are you sure it can't make every gadget? It hasn't shown such a limitation yet...

    While I have no urge towards Ted dying, I'd rather him NOT get involved with Jamie. It seems to me that the appeal (or at least a significant part of it) of Jaime as the Beetle is that he's on a journey of discovery, learning both how and why to be a hero. He makes mistakes not because he's inept, but because he's still learning. If Ted were there, mentoring him, his mistakes would then all have to occur out of either ineptitude or failure to follow Ted's advice. I'm just not that interested in Jaime suddenly being either inept or intransigent. That's just my taste though.

    I know a gadget it can't make, a GL ring. =P

    übergeek on
    camo_sig.png
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    SquashuaSquashua __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2008
    Kyle's could, IIRC.

    Squashua on
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    TachTach Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Re: unchangeable time i.e.- Barbara Gordon was supposed to be shot/crippled.

    Has anyone really thought that maybe Ted wasn't supposed to die? Yes, the scarab was meant to go to Jamie, but really, Ted didn't have to die for that to happen. As pointed out above, Ted didn't need to die for the events in IC to unfold the way they did.

    Tach on
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    NogsNogs Crap, crap, mega crap. Crap, crap, mega crap.Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    rip said ted needs to die.

    future beetle says he doesn't.

    that's the only the we have to go on.

    rip is usually right.

    Nogs on
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    übergeekübergeek Sector 2814Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Well Rip said you couldn't do anything to so called "solidified time" and he was wrong about that.

    übergeek on
    camo_sig.png
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    Mr PinkMr Pink I got cats for youRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    He said he was supposed to die, but did he specify when? Maybe thats the catch.

    Mr Pink on
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    WildcatWildcat Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Late, I know, but I just finished reading issue 6 and greatly enjoyed it - despite having only secondhand knowledge of the Blue and Gold duo. Following on from other posts about being able to 'read' the Scarab's text, I thought it was interesting how Jaime seemed to be parroting whatever the Scarab said at a couple of points.

    Wildcat on
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    FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Issue #0!

    Yeah I don't trust Future Beetle.

    Furu on
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    Bad KarmaBad Karma Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Furu wrote: »
    Issue #0!

    Yeah I don't trust Future Beetle.

    He just had to have a menacing grin.

    Bad Karma on
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    Rabid_LlamaRabid_Llama Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    This was a pretty good issue, though I don't understand why they labeled it #0.

    Yeah, I have a bad feeling about future Beetle before reading this issue and I still have it now.

    Rabid_Llama on
    /sig
    The+Rabid+Llama.png
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    Bad KarmaBad Karma Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    This was a pretty good issue, though I don't understand why they labeled it #0.

    Yeah, I have a bad feeling about future Beetle before reading this issue and I still have it now.

    It was a Zero Hour crossover issue, even featuring similar metallic lettering on the cover.

    Bad Karma on
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    Rabid_LlamaRabid_Llama Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Bad Karma wrote: »
    This was a pretty good issue, though I don't understand why they labeled it #0.

    Yeah, I have a bad feeling about future Beetle before reading this issue and I still have it now.

    It was a Zero Hour crossover issue, even featuring similar metallic lettering on the cover.

    Ah, I didn't even think about it being because it was related to the zero hour crossover. I know nothing about zero hour so the crossover didn't really mean much to me and I kinda shrugged it off.

    Rabid_Llama on
    /sig
    The+Rabid+Llama.png
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    LuxLux Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Munch wrote: »
    No, I don't read those actually. But I see the point you are making. The thing is, while some hero ressurections are good, others just aren't necessary. Some characters are worth bringing back, some aren't. I am of the opinion that Ted is one of those that should stay dead. Like mentioned earlier, Ted was a better hero dead than he ever was alive.

    What has Ted really accomplished as a corpse? He didn't give Booster motivation to be a better man, since he was still acting like a prick until Rip Hunter pulled him aside and explained to him that Skeets was evil. He didn't contribute anything to stopping Max Lord or the OMACs, since Sasha Bordeaux was the one that tipped off Batman, who was already investigating the missing Brother Eye satellite, and would have ultimately discovered Max Lord's machinations without Beetle's help, and Alex Luthor destroyed Max's metahuman files. His death was as pointless as it was contrived, relying on numerous heroes to act like A) assholes B) incompetent rookies C) incompetent asshole rookies.

    I fail to see how he's accomplishing more dead than alive. Booster can only carry on grieving for so long, and once he's done DC has only managed to lose a classic Steve Ditko creation that's been a small, but noticeable presence in the DCU since CoIE.

    I equate Beetle to Marvel's Hawkeye. He may not be a character that non-comics reading people would recognize, or even one that can carry his own solo series, but he's always popping up here and there. I think Beetle contributed a very human, down-to-Earth voice to any book he appeared in, and has a lot of potential as a kind of superscience, corporate espionage character. Losing that just so Booster can look downcast is retarded. If nobody has a good story for him that would excuse a resurrection that's one thing, but to say, "Nope, nu-uh, should never happen, don't care," seems excessive and silly.

    I'm fine with Ted being alive, but I think what he means is that Ted went up in rank once he died. He filled the "role" of being this great big superhero tragedy, the way they paid tribute to his memory in books like 52. It seemed like they were always revisiting his death.

    Lux on
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    AlgertmanAlgertman Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Future Beetle = Booster Gold

    Algertman on
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    bobgorilabobgorila Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Algertman wrote: »
    Future Beetle = Booster Gold

    I like that very much.

    bobgorila on
    I like my women how I like my coffee.

    Anally.
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    MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Lux wrote: »
    I'm fine with Ted being alive, but I think what he means is that Ted went up in rank once he died. He filled the "role" of being this great big superhero tragedy, the way they paid tribute to his memory in books like 52. It seemed like they were always revisiting his death.

    I just never really got that sense of importance from Ted's death. He may have been namechecked/brought back as a doppleganger in a few second tier comics (Manhunter, Checkmate, All New Atom, Blue Beetle, Birds of Prey), but it never really felt important. It was usually people saying, "Yeah, he was a good guy," and then moving on. To make things worse, I really felt like Superboy got top billing in the Dead Crisis Guy category. He was the one that had all of his friends respond to his death, the one that got the big public statue, and the big gathering of heroes to commemorate his death.

    The only place Ted's death really felt important was in 52 issue 52 where Booster steals the scarab from him, and Booster's own book. Batman never really acknowledged that he got Ted killed or showed any guilt from it, the statues that Martian Manhunter made for the dead Leaguers in 52 haven't shown up again. Even in 52, Booster pretty much refused to acknowledge Ted's death until the final issue.

    That said, his resurrection in Booster Gold's actually falling kind of flat for me. It's felt very by-the-numbers and rushed so far. Like Johns is going down a list and getting all the standard jokes and acknowledgments out of the way. "Okay a joke about there being several Beetles, Ted saying he's fine with Jaime being Blue Beetle, comment on Ted's friendship with Dan, juvenile buttsex joke annnnd.. done!"

    I chalk that up to how much stuff was going on in #0 though. I'm hoping that the next few issues, where Beetle and Booster interact with the new Freedom Fighters, will give the character some more interesting personalities to bounce off of.

    Munch on
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