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Penny Arcade - Comic - Father Of The Year

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Posts

  • dennisdennis aka bingley Registered User regular
    edited January 2021
    TheSchaef wrote: »
    Ringo wrote: »
    Oh, Tycho, did you already forget that 40% of American adults demand the right to do that very thing? Adults who will resist change even if it kills themselves and half a million of their neighbors?

    Half the shops in the small town where I live are still shuttered nearly a year later. Many of them will never open again. I think it does them a great disservice to be told they are "not essential", made to sit at home and watch the businesses their parents and grandparents built collapse in front of them, while our town starts to wither despite that whopping $600 we all got (and nowhere to spend it), and to be told now that they just "don't like change".

    Especially now that administrations have changed and suddenly everyone's all gung-ho about getting the country opened up and suddenly studies are coming out saying oh, the lockdowns didn't really help that much.

    [blah blah blah tribal political bullshit]

    Or, you could realize that a bunch of the adults resisting change are just being asked to wear a fucking mask and not have parties for a year, which they wouldn't even do. If not wearing masks hadn't been turned into a tribal identification, a lot of that other stuff you're talking about would have never happened.

    dennis on
  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    In fact if they'd all just shut their self-regarding, callous, racist yapholes and just fucking done it then this bullshit would have been over months ago, and we'd most likely be getting on with our lives pretty much as normal with just the occasional localised flare-up to worry about.

  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    Djiem wrote: »
    To those agreeing (in part) with the article to the extent that kids need a balance in life between physical activity and sedentary fun, between real life socializing and gaming:

    Cool story. You might not have noticed, but there's a pandemic out there. Yeah.

    I mean the pandemic is stopping football, not hiking etc. But yeah it's winter right now anyway which is the perfect time curling up on couch and telling the outdoors to go away for several months.

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  • beeftruckbeeftruck Registered User regular
    MarcinMN wrote: »
    Perhaps next we can resurrect the one about D&D being satanic.

    Nobody cares about Satan anymore, nowadays "problematic" is the word when you want to make your aesthetic preferences sound like moral imperatives.

  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    Djiem wrote: »
    To those agreeing (in part) with the article to the extent that kids need a balance in life between physical activity and sedentary fun, between real life socializing and gaming:

    Cool story. You might not have noticed, but there's a pandemic out there. Yeah.

    I mean the pandemic is stopping football, not hiking etc. But yeah it's winter right now anyway which is the perfect time curling up on couch and telling the outdoors to go away for several months.

    Finding new physical activities to replace what I could no longer do during the pandemic was pretty important. The happy chemicals produced from being active was a huge part of dealing with my depression and anxiety before the pandemic. Tapping into those is even more important right now.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    edited January 2021
    beeftruck wrote: »
    MarcinMN wrote: »
    Perhaps next we can resurrect the one about D&D being satanic.

    Nobody cares about Satan anymore, nowadays "problematic" is the word when you want to make your aesthetic preferences sound like moral imperatives.
    QAnon literally describes liberals as Satanic pedophile Deep State operatives, so... yeah. Satanic Panic is still around, in pog form attempting to overthrow the government violently at the Capitol building.

    The "problematic" thing is so last decade, too. The right is using it far more than the left.

    Hahnsoo1 on
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  • TheSchaefTheSchaef Registered User regular
    edited January 2021
    dennis wrote: »
    Or, you could realize that a bunch of the adults resisting change are just being asked to wear a fucking mask and not have parties for a year, which they wouldn't even do. If not wearing masks hadn't been turned into a tribal identification, a lot of that other stuff you're talking about would have never happened.

    A lot of "that stuff I'm talking about" was taking place back in March, back when the government was still telling people that there wasn't much point to wearing a mask cause it didn't help you that much. In the time since then, the people you're complaining about represent a tiny vocal segment of the population, while the rest of us have been masking up in excess of 80% for the last six or eight months.

    And if you don't want to address my second point about burgeoning executive power in the federal government, that's fine, but I don't see the point in making the effort to tear it down and then also not reply to it. Especially when one particular descriptor you chose was "tribal" even though I specifically said both parties engage in this back-and-forth behavior. In other words, I was criticizing their behavior as tribal. It's almost like your goal here was to try to shame me for expressing my opinion.
    Ringo wrote: »
    The change I am talking about very much includes the ability to change your thinking on "the economic prosperity of my town/family business" vs 3-4 million dead fellow citizens.

    Why not make it seven million, just to keep that number nice and big. And if you saw the kind of shops I'm talking about, I don't think "economic prosperity" would be your chosen turn of phrase. These aren't hedge fund brokers.
    Ringo wrote: »
    Also, the change of political power has very little to do with the latest talk of "opening up" the country and everything to do with there being a vaccine now. It's almost like you're not paying attention and just have an axe to grind about politics!

    Well, the cities are re-opening now, but there's still a ton of cases in the cities now, and most of the people in those cities are not vaccinated now, and Dr. Fauci just got finished saying, even if you get the vaccine, stay home and mask up. So I'm not drawing the same correlation you're drawing.

    TheSchaef on
  • DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    TheSchaef wrote: »
    Ringo wrote: »
    The change I am talking about very much includes the ability to change your thinking on "the economic prosperity of my town/family business" vs 3-4 million dead fellow citizens.

    Why not make it seven million, just to keep that number nice and big.

    Oh, now I understand why you are so gung ho on reopening everything; you're denying the deaths and sickness, or simply don't care about it. Gotcha.

  • TheSchaefTheSchaef Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    Djiem wrote: »
    Oh, now I understand why you are so gung ho on reopening everything; you're denying the deaths and sickness, or simply don't care about it. Gotcha.

    You are correct. I am denying that three million Americans are dead.

    TheSchaef on
  • DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    TheSchaef wrote: »
    Djiem wrote: »
    Oh, now I understand why you are so gung ho on reopening everything; you're denying the deaths and sickness, or simply don't care about it. Gotcha.

    You are correct. I am denying that three million Americans are dead.

    Ok but nobody made this claim.

  • H3KnucklesH3Knuckles But we decide which is right and which is an illusion.Registered User regular
    I read Ringo's post as saying that "3-4 million could die", whereas it seems TheSchaef read it as "3-4 million have died".

    If you're curious about my icon; it's an update of the early Lego Castle theme's "Black Falcons" faction.
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  • TheSchaefTheSchaef Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    I read Ringo's post as saying that "3-4 million could die", whereas it seems TheSchaef read it as "3-4 million have died".

    I read it as a non-specific, hyperbolic number. And if we're just going to invent millions of dead people because someone opened up a shop in Podunk, Ohio, let's make a really big number so that it's super scary. Djiem is the one who solidified this number by claiming that I am denying deaths and that I don't care. The natural response to that is to, in fact, deny deaths which, as you yourself have noted, exist only as a nebulous projection and not what has actually happened this past year.

    And just to recap this conversation, I entered in to speak for the people in my small town and others like it who are made to sit at home and watch their businesses and the town around them slowly wither and die. This is not a policy discussion being bandied about by 500 clowns living 500 miles away, this is an observation of what's happening in a real place where real people live. Responses to this have largely taken the shape of leveling attacks against me for even mentioning that this is taking place. And as a bonus, I am the one who is accused of being tribal. A person sitting at home and told they are "not essential" is not a tribe. They're just a person who wants to live and work, and preserve what they've spent a lifetime building.

    TheSchaef on
  • dennisdennis aka bingley Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    TheSchaef wrote: »
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    I read Ringo's post as saying that "3-4 million could die", whereas it seems TheSchaef read it as "3-4 million have died".

    I read it as a non-specific, hyperbolic number. And if we're just going to invent millions of dead people because someone opened up a shop in Podunk, Ohio, let's make a really big number so that it's super scary.

    First off, while it's a little high and the number of potential deaths is naturally hard to pin down, it's within the ballpark. If herd immunity takes 60% infection, estimates are around 2 million. However, it's a guess and some experts think it's much higher. This isn't hyperbolic, though it is non-specific in that it's a prediction based on suppositions. That doesn't mean it should be ignored, though.

    And once again, you put up a straw man that people are saying millions will die because someone opened up a shop in Podunk, Ohio. No one is saying that. But what we are saying is if the rules allow that shop to open, every other single business owner is naturally going to want to open their shop. Of course they are. To claim otherwise is foolishness.

    (And, of course, this is once again making the mistake of casting it as a binary dead/not dead outcome. COVID-19 comes with a very high incidence of serious long term health consequences.)

    dennis on
  • TheSchaefTheSchaef Registered User regular
    dennis wrote: »
    First off, while it's a little high and the number of potential deaths is naturally hard to pin down, it's within the ballpark. If herd immunity takes 60% infection, estimates are around 2 million.

    That is just an extrapolation from the state of the nation as of last October. In short, if we assume that the only path out is herd immunity through mass infection, then there will be two million deaths no matter what we do, and therefore no benefit to leaving the nation open or shut, it only delays the inevitable. One has to account for other factors. On the more nebulous end of the spectrum are an untold number of undocumented cases. On the more concrete end are the millions of vaccines being distributed every day, right now.
    you put up a straw man that people are saying millions will die because someone opened up a shop in Podunk, Ohio. No one is saying that.

    Really? Because I could have sworn I just got finished saying that people's lives and livelihoods are being destroyed by the depth and breadth of the measures taken, and then was told that I don't care if people die. But sure, I'm the one posing straw men.
    But what we are saying is if the rules allow that shop to open, every other single business owner is naturally going to want to open their shop.

    Yeah? And?
    (And, of course, this is once again making the mistake of casting it as a binary dead/not dead outcome. COVID-19 comes with a very high incidence of serious long term health consequences.)

    It also has a high incidence of asymptomatic cases and a low incidence of re-infection. But it would seem more appropriate for you to direct this criticism at the person who actually put speculative dead people on one end of the scales, and not the person who only responded to the point.

  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    People's lives cannot be returned. Livelihoods generally can. Especially when in many cases the answer is to just pay people to stay at home if they don't work at an essential job. It's not fun for most people but it's one of the few problems that can be solved purely by application of money.

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  • TheSchaefTheSchaef Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    People's lives cannot be returned. Livelihoods generally can.

    So once again, why am I the only one asked to answer for a "false binary" when the response to my argument, consistently, is "if you open the door to your business, you're going to die"? And if that's the actual choice in play right now, why are so many governors and mayors saying in the last ten days that we need to reopen things as soon as possible?
    Especially when in many cases the answer is to just pay people to stay at home if they don't work at an essential job.

    First of all, to categorize a job as essential, or not, is one of the greatest travesties told in support of what this country has done this past year. For the people who need to eat, and live in a building, I imagine they view their work as essential. My wife and I have been helping a friend who has been trying to get away from her abusive husband. She hasn't been able to afford her own place to live, or to prepare herself to fight for custody of their children, because people like you say her job is not "essential". Eventually she had to flee the state. So you'll forgive me if I'm not persuaded by essentiality.

    I notice that this comic has come out with stalwart regularity over the last year. I appreciate it as much as the next person but I can't entertain the argument that an Internet webcomic is "essential" but a local day care is not. Especially to the people who have to keep showing up to their "essential" jobs but their kids are kicked out of the schools.

    Lastly, I can't help but notice that your argument rests on the premise that the government actually would compensate people for the impact of their restrictions. To say they have not is an understatement too great to exaggerate. And when workers in the US earn over eight trillion dollars in wages every year, I'm skeptical of the government's capacity to just pay people's checks to stay at home. The states only pay about 45% as it is, for people with valid claims, and many of them can't balance their state budgets.

    TheSchaef on
  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    Well, one party has tried several times to give out more money, including a proposal right now for 1.9 trillion dollars, and the other has been fighting it every step of the way. People in rural communities don't deserve to get stiffed like that, but they also account for the bulk of the votes that put the party that refuses to govern and hates any kind of spending to make people's lives better into power.
    You don't need to account for full year of no productivity, just a real-ass lockdown of a couple months to control the spread instead of the half-assed one we got that just made people's lives worse without actually doing a lot to contain it. Again in large part the fault of the party that's been spreading disinformation about the virus and treats noncompliance with sensible precautions such as distancing and masking as badges of honor.

    Also, yes, the PA strip has been coming out regularly because everyone at the company has been working from home and the office empty since February. It's not essential, but they're able to do their work while complying with lockdown measures.

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  • dennisdennis aka bingley Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    TheSchaef wrote: »
    People's lives cannot be returned. Livelihoods generally can.

    So once again, why am I the only one asked to answer for a "false binary" when the response to my argument, consistently, is "if you open the door to your business, you're going to die"? And if that's the actual choice in play right now, why are so many governors and mayors saying in the last ten days that we need to reopen things as soon as possible?
    Especially when in many cases the answer is to just pay people to stay at home if they don't work at an essential job.

    First of all, to categorize a job as essential, or not, is one of the greatest travesties told in support of what this country has done this past year. For the people who need to eat, and live in a building, I imagine they view their work as essential. My wife and I have been helping a friend who has been trying to get away from her abusive husband. She hasn't been able to afford her own place to live, or to prepare herself to fight for custody of their children, because people like you say her job is not "essential". Eventually she had to flee the state. So you'll forgive me if I'm not persuaded by essentiality.

    I notice that this comic has come out with stalwart regularity over the last year. I appreciate it as much as the next person but I can't entertain the argument that an Internet webcomic is "essential" but a local day care is not. Especially to the people who have to keep showing up to their "essential" jobs but their kids are kicked out of the schools.

    Lastly, I can't help but notice that your argument rests on the premise that the government actually would compensate people for the impact of their restrictions. To say they have not is an understatement too great to exaggerate. And when workers in the US earn over eight trillion dollars in wages every year, I'm skeptical of the government's capacity to just pay people's checks to stay at home. The states only pay about 45% as it is, for people with valid claims, and many of them can't balance their state budgets.

    You're not even making sense. This internet webcomic has come out because it can be done from home. Nobody is stopping anyone from working from home. Quite the opposite, they're encouraging it. No one is saying jobs that can be done from home somehow magically become "essential."

    This is like a lot of your other arguments, going back to your original post. Now you're talking about vaccines (which at the 1.4 mil/day will take us half a year to get even half the population), when the post you're responding to was talking about how people haven't been able to follow minimal precautions like masks for a half a year.

    In short, you're babbling. At this point, you sound like some kind of parody of a caller on talk radio. Anything that you think has emotional impact, damn the actual illogic of your argument.

    I feel like this thread hasn't made sense for a while.

    dennis on
  • TheSchaefTheSchaef Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    Well, one party has tried several times to give out more money, including a proposal right now for 1.9 trillion dollars.

    They are not proposing 1.9 trillion dollars to pay people to stay at home. That accounts for less than a quarter of the bill, and way less than what would be required to do this action broadly.

    I think it's also appropriate to point out at this stage, after hearing how horrible it is to speak tribally, that I am still speaking about what is happening to people living in my town, and this person is trying to argue about which parties do what.
    just a real-ass lockdown of a couple months

    How would you define that?
    and treats noncompliance with sensible precautions such as distancing and masking as badges of honor

    I said at the very beginning of this discussion that over 80% of the population is distancing and wearing masks. Everybody here is distancing and wearing masks. I have had it to my back teeth with this line of argument.
    It's not essential, but they're able to do their work while complying with lockdown measures.

    So why can't shops be allowed to do their work while complying with distancing and masking guidelines?

    TheSchaef on
  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    TheSchaef wrote: »
    It's not essential, but they're able to do their work while complying with lockdown measures.

    So why can't shops be allowed to do their work while complying with distancing and masking guidelines?
    Because neither masks nor distancing are 100% protection and there's a huge difference between working from home and going to get groceries once a week, and actually running a shop where you see many people every day.

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  • TheSchaefTheSchaef Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    Because neither masks nor distancing are 100% protection

    Is this the standard to which we will hold this nation? 100% or nothing?

    People are going to be catching and dying from this disease long after it has faded into the background with other coronavirus or influenza strains. Will we therefore be locked down forever since it will never be 100% gone?
    there's a huge difference between working from home and going to get groceries once a week, and actually running a shop where you see many people every day.

    Do people working at the Wal-Mart not "see many people every day"?

    TheSchaef on
  • dennisdennis aka bingley Registered User regular
    TheSchaef wrote: »
    I said at the very beginning of this discussion that over 80% of the population is distancing and wearing masks. Everybody here is distancing and wearing masks. I have had it to my back teeth with this line of argument.

    Believe it or not, your bubble is not the sum total of existence. At my office (which I thankfully telecommute from a social distance of about 1,000 miles), no one wears masks at work. AT ALL. They host people coming into the office (including from out of town, with food). My boss (and owner of the company) is a QAnon nut. This is not atypical of Texas. Yes, many large chains/corporations have put their foot down about masks and so masks get worn in those stores. But any time they can get away with it, they "celebrate their freedom." And not just at work. At home in gatherings and parties. At bars and independent restaurants that flaunt the recommendations or bans.

    So you'll have to forgive me if I'm not too concerned about your back teeth when I see the opposite of your experiences with my own eyes.

    Luckily, where I live in (in an extremely blue area, but no tribalism has nothing to do with it, I'm sure), people are masking at 80%. But that's a different bubble.

  • TheSchaefTheSchaef Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    dennis wrote: »
    Believe it or not, your bubble is not the sum total of existence.

    This is the second time you've decided that it's not enough to respond to my argument, you also must belittle it.

    The 80% figure is a nationwide figure. It is not limited to the people living in this town. I am only making the point that this is a town of people who are complying with recommendations but are going to be impacted heavily, and some may never recover. We're not losing 200 people a week like Los Angeles, and we're not going to have a $10b industry to revitalize these people when the dust settles.
    Luckily, where I live in (in an extremely blue area, but no tribalism has nothing to do with it, I'm sure), people are masking at 80%. But that's a different bubble.

    I live in a red area and everybody is wearing masks. I drove up to Lake Erie this summer, everyone was wearing masks. I drove to suburban Louisville last month, everyone was wearing masks. So you speak of bubbles but there's no significant difference between these examples. I mean, other than the empty buildings all up and down Main Street. I'm not persuaded that those people deserve to lose everything just because your boss is Q.

    In fact, the very fact that different areas of the country experience different levels of infection, different levels of population blending (nobody is "coming here" from "out of town"), different levels of access to resources, is exactly the reason that national controls are not only a sub-optimal solution, they're essentially the opposite of a tenable solution.

    TheSchaef on
  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    TheSchaef wrote: »
    Because neither masks nor distancing are 100% protection

    Is this the standard to which we will hold this nation? 100% or nothing?

    People are going to be catching and dying from this disease long after it has faded into the background with other coronavirus or influenza strains. Will we therefore be locked down forever since it will never be 100% gone?
    there's a huge difference between working from home and going to get groceries once a week, and actually running a shop where you see many people every day.

    Do people working at the Wal-Mart not "see many people every day"?

    Okay, they're substantially short of 100% and in the absence of a vaccine (I'm largely talking about actions from last year, but also current availability is not widespread) that presents a still pretty large risk given hospitals being at ICU capacity.

    Also yes employees at Wal-Mart do see a ton of people but should also be considered essential workers as they provide food and staple household items, are are often the only real source for such in many communities. I don't think you specified if you friend's shop is the same, but if so they should be categorized as essential.

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  • TheSchaefTheSchaef Registered User regular
    Okay, they're substantially short of 100%

    If it's that bad then you're actually starting to turn my opinion a little bit against the utility of widespread masking.
    Also yes employees at Wal-Mart do see a ton of people but should also be considered essential workers as they provide food and staple household items.

    So they're allowed to die because you need paper towels (because we've established the options are stay home or die) but a guy working in a tax office can't open his tax office and see clients one at a time, by appointment, because we've determined it's safer for someone to go into a Wal-Mart that has 700 people in it but also a more "essential" Jackson-Hewitt kiosk in place.

  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    Jesus Christ you are being intentionally obtuse. I'm not saying it's okay for Wal-Mart workers to die. I'm saying that 330 million need food to eat and they can't grow it in their apartments. A certain amount of risk is necessary in order for the country to not starve to death and receive crucial services, and that's why for the sake of those people who provide those goods and services, everyone else needs to do everything they can to reduce the chance that they might spread it to those essential workers. And also you know, pay them commensurate to the risk they're taking etc.
    Also tax prep is in no way "essential" in same way that food and healthcare and utilities are. And much like making this web comic can be done entirely online, over phone, and through the mail. Nothing about it requires in person communication.

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  • TheSchaefTheSchaef Registered User regular
    I'm not saying it's okay for Wal-Mart workers to die.

    You previously proffered the notion that livelihoods can be replaced but lives cannot. This strongly implies a binary choice, because a person is not "risking" their livelihood, it is being forcibly removed. So the only way to make a reasonable comparison is to remove the risk assessment and assume the outcome.
    A certain amount of risk is necessary in order for the country to not starve to death and receive crucial services

    I agree. That's why I continue to do my job. I assume the risk necessary to continue drawing a paycheck so my family doesn't starve to death. Unlike some of the people who grew up here, I have that luxury. They are deprived of that, and I am completely flummoxed that I am the only person in this discussion who doesn't think that's their fault for being bad, selfish people.
    Also tax prep is in no way "essential" in same way that food and healthcare and utilities are.

    Again you are making a personal, subjective determination of what is "essential". For people who might need that tax return as quickly as possible in order to get some of those food and services you were talking about, maybe a couple thousand to get their central heating unit replaced, having that preparation done probably seems pretty essential to them.

    You also make a huge leap of assumption as to what "can" be done digitally, as though cell and Internet access are 100% ubiquitous and all of the population learned in its ways. The place I live belies the one and the place I work belies the other. And just as a reminder, I'm not the one who puts the tax kiosks in the Wal-Mart. They do that. And being in a place which is an "only source" for other, unrelated products, the kiosk gets to stay open while the local office does not. To which I point again to the logistics of each and the relative "risk" incurred by one over the other.

  • dennisdennis aka bingley Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    Jesus Christ you are being intentionally obtuse.

    Yeah, I think that about sums it up. There's really no arguing with someone when they're going to keep throwing up so many strawmen and flipping around so many quotes.

    I think we're just going to have to let him have the last word, no matter how fallacious, so we can all move on.

    dennis on
  • RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    I haven't read the last however many posts but my 3-4 million count is for a country of 330 million people with a COVID19 death rate of between .5 to 1%, a hospitalization rate of 15-20%, and the combined COVID deaths plus lack of medical services due to hospital overcrowding. I haven't looked at the numbers lately, but last I saw the death rate for people confirmed infected with covid19 was trending below 1%, hospitalization rates around 20% of reported infection cases, and our average annual American deaths a full 100k more than just the "died of COVID19" numbers.

    A completely non-responsive USA would have been lucky to only reach 3 million deaths, no hyperbole or imaginary numbers needed.

    Anyway, carry on

    Sterica wrote: »
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  • dennisdennis aka bingley Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    Another thing making me irritable about my faith in my fellow man just following some common sense: at the nursing home my mother works in in Alabama (aka the state that voted for Trump with the largest margins), 40% of the residents have not been vaccinated. This is not because they don't have vaccines, or somehow they aren't in the right category yet. This is because the family of those residents won't give permission to have them vaccinated. A similar % of the nursing staff has also chosen not to vaccinate.

    dennis on
  • TheSchaefTheSchaef Registered User regular
    The only "last word" I have to say is that I care about the people who live in my community. They've done everything that was asked of them. I don't want to see it die.

    I don't know what you seek to gain by trying to belittle and shame me but I've engaged this topic in good faith. There would be no benefit to me from lying to strangers and I'm not going to apologize for speaking up for a town being slowly bled to death. If that's not sufficient for you, that's a you problem, not a me problem. Or maybe I'm just in the wrong "tribe" for your tastes, who knows.

  • DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    TheSchaef wrote: »
    I don't know what you seek to gain by trying to belittle and shame me but I've engaged this topic in good faith.

    Ok but that's a lie. At every turn, you employed fallacies, strawmen and put words in people's mouths to defend your untenable position, and I don't feel that it's because you don't understand the situation or other peoples' arguments, it definitely looked like you were arguing in bad faith. But I could be wrong.

  • TheSchaefTheSchaef Registered User regular
    Your first response to me was to say I was "gung ho on reopening everything" (strawman) and that I don't care if people die (putting horrible words in my mouth).

    I can't control what you decide to think about me but I am not lying. I don't lie. If you're genuine about wanting a good faith discussion I will be more than happy to explain myself in as much detail as would meet your satisfaction. In private. This thread's junked up too much as it is. But if you just intend to expound further on what an awful person I am, keep it to yourself. I already got the message.

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