From their wording it sounded like it might be somewhat like PoE’s “respec”, i.e. there is no such thing as a hard reset of all points but you can refund points one at a time.
So potentially it’d be easy to replace one skill you don’t like anymore, or swap in one you want to try and be able to afford swapping back, but a complete overhaul could be costly.
Yeahhh, there's a reason we play a bunch more Diablo seasons than we do PoE and it's because you have to plan your build in advance in PoE and if it turns out when you get to the endgame you don't like the playstyle you're just fucked.
That’s a little bit unfair. PoE is a much more grindy game, but it leaves some room to tweak a broken build into something similar that will work.
Like, in d3 terms, a Barb can switch from Leapquake Might to Seismic Slam Might with like 2-3 different items. Switching to Whirlwind takes more like nine. Switching to Multishot DH takes every slot and re-leveling.
PoE, and D4 so far, don’t have you locked into items like that. Items are de-emphasized a bit (but still important!) and they want your build to come from your skills as well.
Anything can work depending on how they balance it. But respeccing should not be a chore! Allocating stats would work if there's a point to not-obvious-main-stat. Which would mean there is no main stat or at least multiple...
I just hope they don't try changing stuff just to change it or end up with the skill jungle from PoE.
So, I discovered over the holiday forum period that puzzle rings can be thrown in the cube to open a portal to the treasure goblin realm. I'm kind of unhappy I only just discovered this.
I also managed to get through the Darkening of Tristram stuff (with the cow pet and the dark lord). Those two teleport rooms near the end were not that fun as a Squirt's Necklace wizard
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
Brevik suggested that most of the source/assets at Blizzard North were probably lost. So that already makes a mere remaster a bit of an effort. Plus its whole graphics system was a deep nightmare compared to starcraft, with characters/creatures composed of piles of interchangable sprites, so that would make hand-editing pretty tedious. So short of a general graphics filter or something, I think remake was the only path forward. They also need to do some minimal things about curbing cheats and crashes and loot division to make public games actually playable.
That said I feel a bit iffy about a 3D remake compared to something 2D (even if the game was fully pre-rendered graphics.) Is it just going to look like Diablo III redux? PoE? I doubt they get the budget for something as detailed as D4. Ideally I'd say they should try to look like the detailed render scenes released to hype Diablo II (sample in the spoiler below), but don't know how realistic that is.
Wow, if all of that is true it will be interesting if they ever update D2. Honestly I believe most of that is true since programming back then probably didn't plan on keeping things upgradeable. Also Activision/Blizzard absorbing more assets is interesting.
D2 owned my life for the better part of a decade. If they do bring it back as a remake, they really need to fix the drop-rates on the higher-end runes. My suspicion has always been that those higher-end runewords were only possible with dupes. After 5+ years of playing and a few Ladder resets with a Pindlebot (yes, I was one of those guys), the highest rune I ever saw drop naturally was a Jah, which meant that I had a legit Enigma in Ladder.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Anything can work depending on how they balance it. But respeccing should not be a chore! Allocating stats would work if there's a point to not-obvious-main-stat. Which would mean there is no main stat or at least multiple...
I just hope they don't try changing stuff just to change it or end up with the skill jungle from PoE.
As someone who does PoE a lot, I wouldn't mind it
I would kind of rather Blizz find their own way with D4 because I really don't think they could duplicate what GGG has done with the skill tree in PoE (It's actually really amazing, and it's the result of 5 years of tuning in a live setting). I am a PoE fan, but I was a fan of Diablo first, and I would love a game that doesn't wear out its welcome so fast.
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fRAWRstThe Seas CallThe Mad AnswerRegistered Userregular
itll hard to go back to Diablo 2 since PoD and PD2 are live now and work 100x better than original
They need to bring back D2 as we remember it, not as it actually was. No two people will agree on which parts are the ones that need to change, so it's tricky. IMO they need to reinvent the endgame - do away with the monotonous boss rushing and introduce a flat level 90+ difficulty akin to Inferno. But others would tell you that the boss rushing is what they remember most fondly.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Ya, I thought I remembered Brevik saying a remaster was basically impossible.
We’ll see. I’d play it a bit, but probably not long term without changes. Buffs to underused skills would be my biggest hope.
To get more specific on a remake being "impossible"... Diablo 2 is very specific in its coding. Everything about it was made with the 800 x 600 resolution in mind, everything about it was made with its fixed frame rate in mind.
- monster aggro is based on the resolution
- spell effects are based on the resolution
- every spell, ability, attack, and movement, all are based on the game's frame rate (be it damage done over x amount of time, or calculating speed increases)
Trying to "remaster" the game in the sense of heightening its graphical appearance while retaining the gameplay 1:1 may as well be impossible. If / when we get Diablo 2 remastered, all of the math in the combat and stats is going to be new and that can't be helped. You can't try to build the math on top of frame rates because some people are going to vsync for 60 (which is really 59.9), other people are going to let the frame go ham with over 100, etc.
That. OR. They go bold as fucking hell, and the remaster has a locked frame rate just like the original.
Yeah I loved boss rushing but it's likely because I'm nostalgic about it. Skipping class and farming Mephy on Hell with my buddy. Drinking Surge and putting Austin Powers on the TV.
I want to go back to that feeling. I know I'll never get it back and that's sad.
Re: skill trees discussion: the puzzle box aspect of solving the tree and figuring out builds that work is fun, people always focus on the illusion of choice it provides but I don't think that's the real appeal of the skill tree approach. Do make it trivial to respec though.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Re: skill trees discussion: the puzzle box aspect of solving the tree and figuring out builds that work is fun, people always focus on the illusion of choice it provides but I don't think that's the real appeal of the skill tree approach. Do make it trivial to respec though.
Some actually do well and have real choice, tho. Which is why if Blizz managed to duplicate the PoE skill tree, but for Diablo, I'd be 80% fine with it. Because it's pretty great.
I still think it works as well as it does because PoE is PoE and the skill tree is probably the least complex part of the game, and a game like D4 is going to have fundamentally different design choices.
Ya, I thought I remembered Brevik saying a remaster was basically impossible.
We’ll see. I’d play it a bit, but probably not long term without changes. Buffs to underused skills would be my biggest hope.
To get more specific on a remake being "impossible"... Diablo 2 is very specific in its coding. Everything about it was made with the 800 x 600 resolution in mind, everything about it was made with its fixed frame rate in mind.
- monster aggro is based on the resolution
- spell effects are based on the resolution
- every spell, ability, attack, and movement, all are based on the game's frame rate (be it damage done over x amount of time, or calculating speed increases)
Trying to "remaster" the game in the sense of heightening its graphical appearance while retaining the gameplay 1:1 may as well be impossible. If / when we get Diablo 2 remastered, all of the math in the combat and stats is going to be new and that can't be helped. You can't try to build the math on top of frame rates because some people are going to vsync for 60 (which is really 59.9), other people are going to let the frame go ham with over 100, etc.
That. OR. They go bold as fucking hell, and the remaster has a locked frame rate just like the original.
Diablo 2 has a separated client and server model even in single player. The server only updates gameplay 25 ticks per second but the client could render hundreds of (duplicate) frames. Get yourself the source and a bunch of work and those duplicate frames don't have to be duplicated and everything animates smooth while ticking away exactly the same under the hood. Server space is also coded in mini-tiles not pixels, just get your client to draw 4x+ the pixels per tile to increase apparent sharpness, and everything location-based like monster aggro, targeting range etc. remains the same. It would be a fair amount of work and demand the source code, but the separated client-server structure means you can make the client a whole lot prettier without touching the server mechanics, since like most client-server games the client is just showing a sloppy educated guess at what is really going on under the hood. Granted there are good reasons not to want to work with those original mechanics or code but its far from impossible to do so.
Re: skill trees discussion: the puzzle box aspect of solving the tree and figuring out builds that work is fun, people always focus on the illusion of choice it provides but I don't think that's the real appeal of the skill tree approach. Do make it trivial to respec though.
Some actually do well and have real choice, tho. Which is why if Blizz managed to duplicate the PoE skill tree, but for Diablo, I'd be 80% fine with it. Because it's pretty great.
I still think it works as well as it does because PoE is PoE and the skill tree is probably the least complex part of the game, and a game like D4 is going to have fundamentally different design choices.
I don't like the PoE sphere grid, none of the bubbles you get to fill in feel very important since it's all small cumulative stat buffs and all the real meat of your gameplay is what skill gems and uniques you equip.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Re: skill trees discussion: the puzzle box aspect of solving the tree and figuring out builds that work is fun, people always focus on the illusion of choice it provides but I don't think that's the real appeal of the skill tree approach. Do make it trivial to respec though.
Some actually do well and have real choice, tho. Which is why if Blizz managed to duplicate the PoE skill tree, but for Diablo, I'd be 80% fine with it. Because it's pretty great.
I still think it works as well as it does because PoE is PoE and the skill tree is probably the least complex part of the game, and a game like D4 is going to have fundamentally different design choices.
I don't like the PoE sphere grid, none of the bubbles you get to fill in feel very important since it's all small cumulative stat buffs and all the real meat of your gameplay is what skill gems and uniques you equip.
I'm afraid this is kind of incorrect. Many of those bubbles are build-defining.
There are nodes that do this, but those are mostly the life/mana ones. There are buffs, but many of them are quite large and make significant differences to how you play.
A ton of nodes are changing how your character functions, like life and mana leech/regen are found on the skill tree. Chance to inflict ailments is on there, much like dodge/block, gain mana from damage, get power charges, etc.
Plus there's several large nodes that fundamentally change how your character works, like Avatar of Fire, Acrobatics, or Chaos Inoculation.
Yes, some are "increased fire damage", but the ones that are that and that alone have become increasingly rare. Its entirely possible they don't exist, outside of the "elemental damage" ones which can be increasing up to 3 types of damage at once.
Between gear, skills, and the tree, there is no "real meat" because builds use all 3 to work all these little interactions together. Some builds barely use the nodes at all and just acquire as much of the attribute stats as possible because they have gear that uses it.
jungleroomx on
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
also tbf the tree is a lot more interesting than it used to be
lots of vanilla nodes got replaced with chocolate
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
In the Darkening event, for the achievement that gives the butcher pet; does it have to be done in one sitting?
Or if I start a new character tonight and make it a bit, can I just continue tomorrow and still have it be fine. It isn't totally clear what it means by start a new character and complete it, if it means that and nothing else, no leaving or whatever. I know it's not particularly long, but I just thought I'd play something for a short bit before sleep, but don't want to have to do it all over if I stop partway through.
EDIT: On the Switch, I did it last year, or actually probably the year before, on PC.
Managed to successfully make the jump to the LOD Ancient Hydra build on my Wizard after getting a few of the missing legendaries and grinding the gems to level 60.
Need to give the butcher pet achievement an attempt this weekend.
But hey, class number 4 is heavily implied and d2 remake is supposedly leaked.
So, it’s time for guesses. I think something bow/agile for now, possibly some mash up of DH/Amazon/Assassin. I feel like they’ll leave the pally/necro question for last.
But hey, class number 4 is heavily implied and d2 remake is supposedly leaked.
So, it’s time for guesses. I think something bow/agile for now, possibly some mash up of DH/Amazon/Assassin. I feel like they’ll leave the pally/necro question for last.
The gameplay clips look interesting.
I was under the impression that they were trying to get away from the Diablo 3 nephalim player character level of power and more towards the D1/D2 "skilled/trained humans, with a bit of magic to them", but these clips seem pretty close to the god tier nephalim stuff.
I'd play D2. The cross platform progression is great; hated having to redo shit on the PS4 after two years on PC.
EDIT: Forgot about VIKINGS. That was my first Blizzard game; where the hell is that franchise?!
It actually got a slot in the opening segment! Which is more than can be said for Overwatch, Heroes of the Storm, Warcraft 3, or Starcraft. But less than can be said for... James Hetfield.
I'm surprised in resurrected they chose to either do 2D backgrounds, or else they are just forcing them to be rendered without depth. Some of us did enjoy the janky glide perspective mode back in the day!
Nothing's been said but it somehow smells like D2R is going to be an always-online server-based game. Makes cross-progression simple but it would mean no offline play or modding, enough reason right there to leave the original game alone as they say they will.
Real question is are they going to do the bare minimum to make online PUG-friendly, with regards to assigning loot or non-consentual hostility.
Posts
Yeahhh, there's a reason we play a bunch more Diablo seasons than we do PoE and it's because you have to plan your build in advance in PoE and if it turns out when you get to the endgame you don't like the playstyle you're just fucked.
Like, in d3 terms, a Barb can switch from Leapquake Might to Seismic Slam Might with like 2-3 different items. Switching to Whirlwind takes more like nine. Switching to Multishot DH takes every slot and re-leveling.
PoE, and D4 so far, don’t have you locked into items like that. Items are de-emphasized a bit (but still important!) and they want your build to come from your skills as well.
I just hope they don't try changing stuff just to change it or end up with the skill jungle from PoE.
I also managed to get through the Darkening of Tristram stuff (with the cow pet and the dark lord). Those two teleport rooms near the end were not that fun as a Squirt's Necklace wizard
What
What
Frenzy Barb?
Here we go again. Yet, Schreier’s claims seem to usually be true? Also seems noteworthy that it says remake and not remaster.
About a month to BlizzConline, which should also have the 4th D4 class.
That said I feel a bit iffy about a 3D remake compared to something 2D (even if the game was fully pre-rendered graphics.) Is it just going to look like Diablo III redux? PoE? I doubt they get the budget for something as detailed as D4. Ideally I'd say they should try to look like the detailed render scenes released to hype Diablo II (sample in the spoiler below), but don't know how realistic that is.
Edit: Bad writing.
Steam: betsuni7
We’ll see. I’d play it a bit, but probably not long term without changes. Buffs to underused skills would be my biggest hope.
As someone who does PoE a lot, I wouldn't mind it
I would kind of rather Blizz find their own way with D4 because I really don't think they could duplicate what GGG has done with the skill tree in PoE (It's actually really amazing, and it's the result of 5 years of tuning in a live setting). I am a PoE fan, but I was a fan of Diablo first, and I would love a game that doesn't wear out its welcome so fast.
- monster aggro is based on the resolution
- spell effects are based on the resolution
- every spell, ability, attack, and movement, all are based on the game's frame rate (be it damage done over x amount of time, or calculating speed increases)
Trying to "remaster" the game in the sense of heightening its graphical appearance while retaining the gameplay 1:1 may as well be impossible. If / when we get Diablo 2 remastered, all of the math in the combat and stats is going to be new and that can't be helped. You can't try to build the math on top of frame rates because some people are going to vsync for 60 (which is really 59.9), other people are going to let the frame go ham with over 100, etc.
That. OR. They go bold as fucking hell, and the remaster has a locked frame rate just like the original.
I want to go back to that feeling. I know I'll never get it back and that's sad.
Like, even without changes it’d still be new to my family.
Some actually do well and have real choice, tho. Which is why if Blizz managed to duplicate the PoE skill tree, but for Diablo, I'd be 80% fine with it. Because it's pretty great.
I still think it works as well as it does because PoE is PoE and the skill tree is probably the least complex part of the game, and a game like D4 is going to have fundamentally different design choices.
Diablo 2 has a separated client and server model even in single player. The server only updates gameplay 25 ticks per second but the client could render hundreds of (duplicate) frames. Get yourself the source and a bunch of work and those duplicate frames don't have to be duplicated and everything animates smooth while ticking away exactly the same under the hood. Server space is also coded in mini-tiles not pixels, just get your client to draw 4x+ the pixels per tile to increase apparent sharpness, and everything location-based like monster aggro, targeting range etc. remains the same. It would be a fair amount of work and demand the source code, but the separated client-server structure means you can make the client a whole lot prettier without touching the server mechanics, since like most client-server games the client is just showing a sloppy educated guess at what is really going on under the hood. Granted there are good reasons not to want to work with those original mechanics or code but its far from impossible to do so.
I don't like the PoE sphere grid, none of the bubbles you get to fill in feel very important since it's all small cumulative stat buffs and all the real meat of your gameplay is what skill gems and uniques you equip.
I'm afraid this is kind of incorrect. Many of those bubbles are build-defining.
There are nodes that do this, but those are mostly the life/mana ones. There are buffs, but many of them are quite large and make significant differences to how you play.
A ton of nodes are changing how your character functions, like life and mana leech/regen are found on the skill tree. Chance to inflict ailments is on there, much like dodge/block, gain mana from damage, get power charges, etc.
Plus there's several large nodes that fundamentally change how your character works, like Avatar of Fire, Acrobatics, or Chaos Inoculation.
Yes, some are "increased fire damage", but the ones that are that and that alone have become increasingly rare. Its entirely possible they don't exist, outside of the "elemental damage" ones which can be increasing up to 3 types of damage at once.
Between gear, skills, and the tree, there is no "real meat" because builds use all 3 to work all these little interactions together. Some builds barely use the nodes at all and just acquire as much of the attribute stats as possible because they have gear that uses it.
lots of vanilla nodes got replaced with chocolate
5 years of tweaking, adding, removing, and modifying has resulted in what is essentially a color wheel of death.
Or if I start a new character tonight and make it a bit, can I just continue tomorrow and still have it be fine. It isn't totally clear what it means by start a new character and complete it, if it means that and nothing else, no leaving or whatever. I know it's not particularly long, but I just thought I'd play something for a short bit before sleep, but don't want to have to do it all over if I stop partway through.
EDIT: On the Switch, I did it last year, or actually probably the year before, on PC.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Need to give the butcher pet achievement an attempt this weekend.
But hey, class number 4 is heavily implied and d2 remake is supposedly leaked.
So, it’s time for guesses. I think something bow/agile for now, possibly some mash up of DH/Amazon/Assassin. I feel like they’ll leave the pally/necro question for last.
Opening? Blizzcon? Is that tomorrow?
Steam: betsuni7
Yarp.
Edit: Two years of my hopes broken by Blizzard has made me a bit jaded and just enjoy playing D3 till D4 comes out.
Steam: betsuni7
Also, apparently ears are going to be extra special or some new mechanic around them.
And, unsurprisingly, D2 Remastered announced with cross progression between PC and consoles.
EDIT: Forgot about VIKINGS. That was my first Blizzard game; where the hell is that franchise?!
Yeah, that's the only thing keeping me from rolling on over to the alpha.
That and diablo2.com ain't working rn
The gameplay clips look interesting.
I was under the impression that they were trying to get away from the Diablo 3 nephalim player character level of power and more towards the D1/D2 "skilled/trained humans, with a bit of magic to them", but these clips seem pretty close to the god tier nephalim stuff.
It actually got a slot in the opening segment! Which is more than can be said for Overwatch, Heroes of the Storm, Warcraft 3, or Starcraft. But less than can be said for... James Hetfield.
Nothing's been said but it somehow smells like D2R is going to be an always-online server-based game. Makes cross-progression simple but it would mean no offline play or modding, enough reason right there to leave the original game alone as they say they will.
Real question is are they going to do the bare minimum to make online PUG-friendly, with regards to assigning loot or non-consentual hostility.