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[Star Trek] Keep On Trekkin' (Lower Decks stuff in SPOILERS)

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  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    VI is great, but Wrath of Khan is the best Star Trek movie.
    Somebody didn't pay attention to my quotation marks!

    Someone thinks it doesn't make a difference and Wrath of Khan is the best either way!


    (4 is maybe the secret best one)

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  • Quantum TigerQuantum Tiger Half Pam/Half Garf/All Lovin Where all your dreams come true!Registered User regular
    edited February 25
    I watched Star Trek: The Motion Picture earlier this week because a podcast I listen to are releasing commentary tracks for the whole film series over the next few months

    Boy that film has so little going on. I was excited going into it because I hadn't watched it in years and all I could remember were a few short scenes, but it turns out that the film is just those few scenes wrapped in excrutiatingly long shots of the enterprise or V'ger and nothing else

    Quantum Tiger on
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  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Unpopular opinion. TMP should have been longer and more boring. I absolutely loved the establishing shots. That 5 minute sequence where they flew over V'Ger was one of the best parts of any Star Trek thing.

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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    I haven't watched TMP since I was a kid. But I do remember a) loving the over-long scene around seeing the Enterprise for the first time in film, and b) loving the long, drawn-out scene of Spock traversing through the center of V'ger, not knowing what I was looking at but being terrified and awestruck.

    While it doesn't seem that any rich were eaten. It definitely feels like a soup course with broth made from rich stock - bouillonaire if you will - was had.

    My Dragon Age Origins Let's Play

  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Unpopular opinion: TMP generates no strong feelings for me one way or another. I do not love it and I do not hate it, I don't care for it and I don't dismiss it. To me, it is a move that just... is. I love 2, 4 and 6, I like 3 and 5 well enough, and I hate all the TNG movies passionately. But TMP doesn't affect me one way or another.

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  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    edited February 25
    TMP could use a little more plot and moments of human interaction but I love the big moody vistas.

    For all that I love Star Trek in its various forms it only rarely has given me that elusive sci-fi sense of wonder, of cosmic vastness (because it's a TV show, of course; it's not something I'm blaming it for). But TMP gives me that every time. The contrast between how huge the Enterprise looks in the opening sequence versus seeing it as a tiny speck against V'Ger's immensity never fails to take my breath away.

    It's also the most genuinely science-fictional of any of the Trek movies.

    Jacobkosh on
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  • wanderingwandering Registered User regular
    I watched Star Trek: The Motion Picture earlier this week because a podcast I listen to are releasing commentary tracks for the whole film series over the next few months

    Boy that film has so little going on. I was excited going into it because I hadn't watched it in years and all I could remember were a few short scenes, but it turns out that the film is just those few scenes wrapped in excrutiatingly long shots of the enterprise or V'ger and nothing else
    The long shots of V’ger are the best part tho

    JacobkoshdanxMsAnthropy
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    There's an edit that cuts Star Trek: The Motion Picture down to 20 minutes and adds the Daft Punk soundtrack from Tron: Legacy, I've never seen the original version and don't really feel motivated to do so, despite going out of my way to watch the others, but this version is great IMO.

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  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    RIP Daft Punk...

    (the group, not the people)

    JandaruElvenshae
  • HydropoloHydropolo Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    Unpopular opinion: TMP generates no strong feelings for me one way or another. I do not love it and I do not hate it, I don't care for it and I don't dismiss it. To me, it is a move that just... is. I love 2, 4 and 6, I like 3 and 5 well enough, and I hate all the TNG movies passionately. But TMP doesn't affect me one way or another.

    TMP is just so... TMP, but it will forever have a spot in my heart for giving us the refit Constitution class.

    How you can like 5 and HATE ALL the TNG movies.. I just.. If it wasn't for the Kirk/Spock/McCoy scenes, that movie would be unwatchable. I'll give you Nemesis and definite Insurrection, but Generations and First Contact are at least serviceable flicks.

    autono-wally, erotibot300Nightslyr
  • SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    I've seen that posted a bunch of times now and I always take the time to watch it because it's great

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  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited February 25
    I watched Star Trek: The Motion Picture earlier this week because a podcast I listen to are releasing commentary tracks for the whole film series over the next few months

    Boy that film has so little going on. I was excited going into it because I hadn't watched it in years and all I could remember were a few short scenes, but it turns out that the film is just those few scenes wrapped in excrutiatingly long shots of the enterprise or V'ger and nothing else

    The V'ger reveal was AMAZING and I still think it's a really cool idea

    so it has that going for it at least

    Hardtarget on
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  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited February 25
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Unpopular opinion: TMP generates no strong feelings for me one way or another. I do not love it and I do not hate it, I don't care for it and I don't dismiss it. To me, it is a move that just... is. I love 2, 4 and 6, I like 3 and 5 well enough, and I hate all the TNG movies passionately. But TMP doesn't affect me one way or another.

    TMP is just so... TMP, but it will forever have a spot in my heart for giving us the refit Constitution class.

    How you can like 5 and HATE ALL the TNG movies.. I just.. If it wasn't for the Kirk/Spock/McCoy scenes, that movie would be unwatchable. I'll give you Nemesis and definite Insurrection, but Generations and First Contact are at least serviceable flicks.

    1. The number of Kirk/Spock/McCoy scenes in the TNG movies is 0, so that kinda answers that question.
    2. "What does God need with a starship?" Still one of the best lines in Trek moviedom.
    3. Generations is boring. Just boring. If it was a two-parter episode, it wouldn't be one of the good ones.
    4. First Contact is aggressively bad. It turned the thoughtful diplomatic Picard into a raging screaming parody of himself, ruined the Borg by giving them time travel and a Queen, was chock-full of ridiculous crap like holo-machine-gunning borg or "killing the leader insta-kills all the bad guys" trope, and the entire movie plot was just a bad teen comedy - high school girl upset her crush turned her down so she goes after his best friend.

    In the past I've called First Contact "a bad parody of TNG", but I've since recanted that position because it was insulting to the TNG porn parody movie, which has both higher production values, a better story, and more respect for the Trek canon than First Contact.

    Richy on
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  • dlinfinitidlinfiniti Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Unpopular opinion: TMP generates no strong feelings for me one way or another. I do not love it and I do not hate it, I don't care for it and I don't dismiss it. To me, it is a move that just... is. I love 2, 4 and 6, I like 3 and 5 well enough, and I hate all the TNG movies passionately. But TMP doesn't affect me one way or another.

    TMP is just so... TMP, but it will forever have a spot in my heart for giving us the refit Constitution class.

    How you can like 5 and HATE ALL the TNG movies.. I just.. If it wasn't for the Kirk/Spock/McCoy scenes, that movie would be unwatchable. I'll give you Nemesis and definite Insurrection, but Generations and First Contact are at least serviceable flicks.

    1. The number of Kirk/Spock/McCoy scenes in the TNG movies is 0, so that kinda answers that question.
    2. "What does God need with a starship?" Still one of the best lines in Trek moviedom.
    3. Generations is boring. Just boring. If it was a two-parter episode, it wouldn't be one of the good ones.
    4. First Contact is aggressively bad. It turned the thoughtful diplomatic Picard into a raging screaming parody of himself, ruined the Borg by giving them time travel and a Queen, was chock-full of ridiculous crap like holo-machine-gunning borg or "killing the leader insta-kills all the bad guys" trope, and the entire movie plot was just a bad teen comedy - high school girl upset her crush turned her down so she goes after his best friend.

    Don’t make me draw the line
    It will be drawn here

    AAAAA!!! PLAAAYGUUU!!!!
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  • Quantum TigerQuantum Tiger Half Pam/Half Garf/All Lovin Where all your dreams come true!Registered User regular
    edited February 25
    I'll agree that V'Ger is cool and hits a good cosmic horror note. Maybe excrutiating was too strong of a word, I was mainly having a laugh that the reason I could only remember a few things in the film is that indeed, only a few things happen

    I also rewatched 2001: A Space Odyssey recently and found it both beautiful but boring as well so make of that what you will. Actually Douglas Trumbull is responsible for the special effects on both films which explains a lot of the familiarity, and I will say a point in both films favour is that the those effects in both hold up today

    Quantum Tiger on
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Unpopular opinion: TMP generates no strong feelings for me one way or another. I do not love it and I do not hate it, I don't care for it and I don't dismiss it. To me, it is a move that just... is. I love 2, 4 and 6, I like 3 and 5 well enough, and I hate all the TNG movies passionately. But TMP doesn't affect me one way or another.

    TMP is just so... TMP, but it will forever have a spot in my heart for giving us the refit Constitution class.

    How you can like 5 and HATE ALL the TNG movies.. I just.. If it wasn't for the Kirk/Spock/McCoy scenes, that movie would be unwatchable. I'll give you Nemesis and definite Insurrection, but Generations and First Contact are at least serviceable flicks.

    1. The number of Kirk/Spock/McCoy scenes in the TNG movies is 0, so that kinda answers that question.
    2. "What does God need with a starship?" Still one of the best lines in Trek moviedom.
    3. Generations is boring. Just boring. If it was a two-parter episode, it wouldn't be one of the good ones.
    4. First Contact is aggressively bad. It turned the thoughtful diplomatic Picard into a raging screaming parody of himself, ruined the Borg by giving them time travel and a Queen, was chock-full of ridiculous crap like holo-machine-gunning borg or "killing the leader insta-kills all the bad guys" trope, and the entire movie plot was just a bad teen comedy - high school girl upset her crush turned her down so she goes after his best friend.

    In the past I've called First Contact "a bad parody of TNG", but I've since recanted that position because it was insulting to the TNG porn parody movie, which has both higher production values, a better story, and more respect for the Trek canon than First Contact.

    This feels like an overly generous assessment of the quality of most of TNG's 2-parters. There's a ton that are mediocre. Especially the second halves.

  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    shryke wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Unpopular opinion: TMP generates no strong feelings for me one way or another. I do not love it and I do not hate it, I don't care for it and I don't dismiss it. To me, it is a move that just... is. I love 2, 4 and 6, I like 3 and 5 well enough, and I hate all the TNG movies passionately. But TMP doesn't affect me one way or another.

    TMP is just so... TMP, but it will forever have a spot in my heart for giving us the refit Constitution class.

    How you can like 5 and HATE ALL the TNG movies.. I just.. If it wasn't for the Kirk/Spock/McCoy scenes, that movie would be unwatchable. I'll give you Nemesis and definite Insurrection, but Generations and First Contact are at least serviceable flicks.

    1. The number of Kirk/Spock/McCoy scenes in the TNG movies is 0, so that kinda answers that question.
    2. "What does God need with a starship?" Still one of the best lines in Trek moviedom.
    3. Generations is boring. Just boring. If it was a two-parter episode, it wouldn't be one of the good ones.
    4. First Contact is aggressively bad. It turned the thoughtful diplomatic Picard into a raging screaming parody of himself, ruined the Borg by giving them time travel and a Queen, was chock-full of ridiculous crap like holo-machine-gunning borg or "killing the leader insta-kills all the bad guys" trope, and the entire movie plot was just a bad teen comedy - high school girl upset her crush turned her down so she goes after his best friend.

    In the past I've called First Contact "a bad parody of TNG", but I've since recanted that position because it was insulting to the TNG porn parody movie, which has both higher production values, a better story, and more respect for the Trek canon than First Contact.

    This feels like an overly generous assessment of the quality of most of TNG's 2-parters. There's a ton that are mediocre. Especially the second halves.

    I like all of them to varying degrees except "Descent" and the, uh, the Worf and Data fathers one. "Time's Arrow" is just kind of mediocre but it's not unpleasant to watch, and I like what's on the screen in "Unification," I just wish there were more of it. It really should have been a 3-parter with the third part being Spock joining the crew on the Enterprise and racing off to save the day.

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  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Unpopular opinion: TMP generates no strong feelings for me one way or another. I do not love it and I do not hate it, I don't care for it and I don't dismiss it. To me, it is a move that just... is. I love 2, 4 and 6, I like 3 and 5 well enough, and I hate all the TNG movies passionately. But TMP doesn't affect me one way or another.

    TMP is just so... TMP, but it will forever have a spot in my heart for giving us the refit Constitution class.

    How you can like 5 and HATE ALL the TNG movies.. I just.. If it wasn't for the Kirk/Spock/McCoy scenes, that movie would be unwatchable. I'll give you Nemesis and definite Insurrection, but Generations and First Contact are at least serviceable flicks.

    1. The number of Kirk/Spock/McCoy scenes in the TNG movies is 0, so that kinda answers that question.
    2. "What does God need with a starship?" Still one of the best lines in Trek moviedom.
    3. Generations is boring. Just boring. If it was a two-parter episode, it wouldn't be one of the good ones.
    4. First Contact is aggressively bad. It turned the thoughtful diplomatic Picard into a raging screaming parody of himself, ruined the Borg by giving them time travel and a Queen, was chock-full of ridiculous crap like holo-machine-gunning borg or "killing the leader insta-kills all the bad guys" trope, and the entire movie plot was just a bad teen comedy - high school girl upset her crush turned her down so she goes after his best friend.

    In the past I've called First Contact "a bad parody of TNG", but I've since recanted that position because it was insulting to the TNG porn parody movie, which has both higher production values, a better story, and more respect for the Trek canon than First Contact.

    yet somehow First Contact respects that canon more than 3 seasons of discovery

    Regardless, First Contact is simply an action movie set on the Enterprise, you're gonna either like it or not. I think it's fun but it's not nearly as good a 2,3,4,6. (For the record I also think Generations is VASTLY underrated, which we've talked about before but ya opinions etc)

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  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    Also I just rewatched the "Gambit" 2-parter the other week and it slaps. One of the things I loved about the last few seasons of TNG, even when some of the other stuff was getting a bit threadbare, was that they did a film noir, investigation-style story once or twice a season where the crew would be hanging out undercover in shady underworld bars (usually wearing cloaked robes, that magical protector of identities across multiple sci-fi galaxies). going to space junkyards and arguing with shady Ferengi, etc. It was a neat look at the seedier side of the galaxy outside of DS9, and the actors always seemed to be having a lot of fun.

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  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Also I just rewatched the "Gambit" 2-parter the other week and it slaps. One of the things I loved about the last few seasons of TNG, even when some of the other stuff was getting a bit threadbare, was that they did a film noir, investigation-style story once or twice a season where the crew would be hanging out undercover in shady underworld bars (usually wearing cloaked robes, that magical protector of identities across multiple sci-fi galaxies). going to space junkyards and arguing with shady Ferengi, etc. It was a neat look at the seedier side of the galaxy outside of DS9, and the actors always seemed to be having a lot of fun.

    to build on this a little bit as I just finished my ~2 year long very slow TNG on Blu Ray rewatch -
    Season 7 is vastly underrated. Ya sure there are a few stinkers where the writers are clearly bored but most of the episodes are freaking great. I don't get why people disliked it so much. I kept a list of all episodes that I think would be worthy of a future shortenred rewatch and my S7 list was:
    S07E01: Descent, Part II
    S07E04: Gambit, Part I
    S07E05: Gambit, Part II
    S07E06: Phantasms
    S07E07: Dark Page
    S07E08: Attached
    S07E09: Force of Nature
    S07E10: Inheritance
    S07E11: Parallels
    S07E12: The Pegasus
    S07E13: Homeward
    S07E15: Lower Decks
    S07E16: Thine Own Self
    S07E18: Eye of the Beholder
    S07E20: Journey's End
    S07E21: Firstborn
    S07E23: Emergence
    S07E24: Pre-emptive Strike
    S07E25: All Good Things

    19 eps for a season is incredibly high

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  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    Once the show grows the beard, most of TNG is good to great. Actually bad episodes are few and far between. That consistent quality across 25/26 episode seasons might be the most remarkable thing about it.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Unpopular opinion: TMP generates no strong feelings for me one way or another. I do not love it and I do not hate it, I don't care for it and I don't dismiss it. To me, it is a move that just... is. I love 2, 4 and 6, I like 3 and 5 well enough, and I hate all the TNG movies passionately. But TMP doesn't affect me one way or another.

    TMP is just so... TMP, but it will forever have a spot in my heart for giving us the refit Constitution class.

    How you can like 5 and HATE ALL the TNG movies.. I just.. If it wasn't for the Kirk/Spock/McCoy scenes, that movie would be unwatchable. I'll give you Nemesis and definite Insurrection, but Generations and First Contact are at least serviceable flicks.

    1. The number of Kirk/Spock/McCoy scenes in the TNG movies is 0, so that kinda answers that question.
    2. "What does God need with a starship?" Still one of the best lines in Trek moviedom.
    3. Generations is boring. Just boring. If it was a two-parter episode, it wouldn't be one of the good ones.
    4. First Contact is aggressively bad. It turned the thoughtful diplomatic Picard into a raging screaming parody of himself, ruined the Borg by giving them time travel and a Queen, was chock-full of ridiculous crap like holo-machine-gunning borg or "killing the leader insta-kills all the bad guys" trope, and the entire movie plot was just a bad teen comedy - high school girl upset her crush turned her down so she goes after his best friend.

    In the past I've called First Contact "a bad parody of TNG", but I've since recanted that position because it was insulting to the TNG porn parody movie, which has both higher production values, a better story, and more respect for the Trek canon than First Contact.

    This feels like an overly generous assessment of the quality of most of TNG's 2-parters. There's a ton that are mediocre. Especially the second halves.

    I like all of them to varying degrees except "Descent" and the, uh, the Worf and Data fathers one. "Time's Arrow" is just kind of mediocre but it's not unpleasant to watch, and I like what's on the screen in "Unification," I just wish there were more of it. It really should have been a 3-parter with the third part being Spock joining the crew on the Enterprise and racing off to save the day.

    I think none are actively bad. But many have really mediocre or disappointing second halves or are just kind of forgettable.

    Best of Both Worlds = Both great, second one only slightly less great because how are you topping part 1?
    Redemption = Great first half that brings a one and a half season long story arc to a head, really rushed and mediocre second half that does little with the first half's setup and feels like they just needed the story done with in 42 minutes and not a second longer
    Unification = Some fun bits but ultimately the whole thing feels stretched super thin while simultaneously having a rushed and half-baked second half that feels like they didn't have the budget to do anything actually interesting
    Time's Arrow = it's got it's moments and I can't hate it cause it's kinda silly fun but the second half especially feels like basically nothing interesting really happens
    Chain of Command = a classic, great on both ends
    Birthright = eh? It's not terrible but it's not that good either I think. Solidly middle of the road.
    Descent = I like the setup here but it just never quite works in the end I think
    Gambit = I legit love this whole silly story. It's what a good "let's just have some goddamn fun" TNG episode should be and it's got a great ending where archaeology saves the day
    All Good Things = I guess this technically counts and we all know it's good

    Like, there's some real bangers in there and I wouldn't be against watching any of them but I think the overall they leaned more towards just ok with a few standouts. I think Generations would solidly be in the top half of them. Below the really great ones but above the rest of the just mediocre ones. The Kirk/Picard meeting alone elevates it above most of them.

  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    was farpoint a double episode pilot? I legit can't remember

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    was farpoint a double episode pilot? I legit can't remember

    Yes. Forgot that one.

    Rating = forgettable

    Kreutz
  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    farpoint was a good starting point. because it kept the idea that these explorers are going to run into lots of crazy stuff out there. Season 1 has a lot of problems, but it still felt like Trek.

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  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    was farpoint a double episode pilot? I legit can't remember

    yeah, the night it debuted it was a *clears throat* TWO-HOUR TELEVISION MOVIE EVENT. My dad bought a 2-liter of Dr Pepper and popped popcorn for us.

    but it was filmed to be split into two 42-minute halves for syndication so sometimes in reruns I'd see it that way. I don't know if the two-half version has any kind of different edits or added/missing scenes or anything.

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  • HydropoloHydropolo Registered User regular
    I haven't watched it in years, so maybe now that I'm older I'll like it more, but for me, All Good Things never sat well with me. There were parts I liked (I was young, the future Enterprise was cool), but overall, I dunno.

  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    I haven't watched it in years, so maybe now that I'm older I'll like it more, but for me, All Good Things never sat well with me. There were parts I liked (I was young, the future Enterprise was cool), but overall, I dunno.

    as somebody who just watched it, it's quite good. It's a better trek movie than Generations was. They should have flipped those scripts (they were worked on by the same people at the same time)

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  • wanderingwandering Registered User regular
    edited February 25
    I actually just watched Unification and feel like it has a good premise but is a let down in practice

    1. It's kinda disappointing how the episode basically ends the same way it began and no real progress is made on Romulan unification. I feel like Redemption, the Klingon 2 parter that preceded the Romulan 2 parter, did a better job feeling like shit is actually happening. There aren't any truly seismic shifts to the status quo or anything but the Romulans break off their secret alliance, Worf regains his honor, a new chancellor is chosen, etc

    2. Spock's interactions with the TNG crew are weirdly flat. My memory is that the Scotty crossover is much more engaging. Maybe part of the issue is that Picard and Data are kinda reserved and Spock-like themselves so there's nothing for Spock to bounce off of. Maybe they should've paired Spock with...Worf? Lwaxana? Q?

    ...Wait I forgot they actually *did* pair Spock with Q. That was pretty fun.

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    wandering on
    Jacobkosh
  • wanderingwandering Registered User regular
    My main problem with TMP is actually that I'm not crazy about the central conceit. I’m not sure if I could fully explain why I find 2001’s premise of unknowable cosmic beings tinkering around with human evolution cool and TMP’s premise of a vast cosmic being turning out to be a Voyager probe obnoxious but that’s where I stand

  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    I would watch First Contact over TMP any day. There are only so many hours in the day.

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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    wandering wrote: »
    My main problem with TMP is actually that I'm not crazy about the central conceit. I’m not sure if I could fully explain why I find 2001’s premise of unknowable cosmic beings tinkering around with human evolution cool and TMP’s premise of a vast cosmic being turning out to be a Voyager probe obnoxious but that’s where I stand

    V'ger isn't the unknowable cosmic being, it's TMP's version of the Monolith. Sorta. It's a thing touched and infused by the unknowable cosmic beings.

    I know it wasn't a commercially viable movie, but I still wish the "new life" created by Decker and V'ger was either mentioned again or showed up in Star Trek again. Maybe Lower Decks will do it, they'd be the ones, if anyone does.

    While it doesn't seem that any rich were eaten. It definitely feels like a soup course with broth made from rich stock - bouillonaire if you will - was had.

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  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    wandering wrote: »
    I actually just watched Unification and feel like it has a good premise but is a let down in practice

    1. It's kinda disappointing how the episode basically ends the same way it began and no real progress is made on Romulan unification. I feel like Redemption, the Klingon 2 parter that preceded the Romulan 2 parter, did a better job feeling like shit is actually happening. There aren't any truly seismic shifts to the status quo or anything but the Romulans break off their secret alliance, Worf regains his honor, a new chancellor is chosen, etc

    2. Spock's interactions with the TNG crew are weirdly flat. My memory is that the Scotty crossover is much more engaging. Maybe part of the issue is that Picard and Data are kinda reserved and Spock-like themselves so there's nothing for Spock to bounce off of. Maybe they should've paired Spock with...Worf? Lwaxana? Q?

    Like I mentioned, I personally feel like "Spock is coming to TNG!!" and then not contriving a way to have him on the Enterprise manning the science station and playing off the other crew at least a little bit is just a really weird-ass way to leave money on the table. Maybe there's a real-world reason for that - Nimoy nixed it, or they could only get him for two days or whatever, but it's still a bummer.

    The other issue with the episode for me is that while I appreciate the first-time-ever glimpse at Romulus and what it's like - and it's kind of neat, with this sort of occupied-France vibe of paranoid shopkeeps and secret meetings in basements - the climax is oddly flat. The decisive action all happens in a very underwhelming office set and basically consists of Data doing an 80s-cartoon-esque trick with mirrorsholograms.

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    CambiatawanderingshrykeNightslyrAbsoluteZero
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    Yeah, whatever touched that voyager probe was powerful and strange enough to turn a piece of earth 1970s tech into something so powerful that it
    was "generating a force field greater than the radiation of Earth's sun." (Star Trek: The Motion Picture)

    For comparison, Earth's sun radiates 384.6 yottawatts or 384.6x1026joules per second.

    And in the end it merged machine and human consciousness and disappeared to somewhere.

    So it should still be out there somewhere.

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    Jacobkoshchrono_travellerNightslyr
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited February 25
    I think First Contact is better than Generations, but I think Generations is a Star Trek story and First Contact is (more or less) not

    and Insurrection is also a Star Trek story but it's one of those Dear Doctor ones where the morality of everything is fucked and absolutist in the wrong way

    override367 on
    JacobkoshNightslyr
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    wandering wrote: »
    My main problem with TMP is actually that I'm not crazy about the central conceit. I’m not sure if I could fully explain why I find 2001’s premise of unknowable cosmic beings tinkering around with human evolution cool and TMP’s premise of a vast cosmic being turning out to be a Voyager probe obnoxious but that’s where I stand

    The Voyager probe thing is admittedly a little silly and the story would have been equally fine if it had just been some godlike entity with no connection to Earth at all, but the core idea of a machine so vastly powerful and knowledgeable still butting up against its own limitations and against fundamental existential questions of identity and purpose really resonates with me. To me, the way to make something feel cosmic and timeless isn't to make it endlessly baroque and complicated but to make it almost primordially elemental and simple. Star Trek is often a morality play, a clash of human ideas and ideals, but questions of growth and reproduction and metamorphosis predate human ideas and thus feel like part of a bigger, more cosmic canvas.

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    wanderingNightslyr
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    I think First Contact is better than Generations, but I think Generations is a Star Trek story and First Contact is (more or less) not

    and Insurrection is also a Star Trek story but it's one of those Dear Doctor ones where the morality of everything is fucked and absolutist in the wrong way

    Here is my annual "I will never forgive First Contact for the Borg Queen" post.

    DanHibikiwanderingStrikorchrono_travellerdanxCaedwyrNightslyrPailryderautono-wally, erotibot300Jandaru
  • CroakerBCCroakerBC TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited February 25
    Coinage wrote: »
    On the one hand, Trek aliens are a long-time problem that is easily resolved in animation. On the other hand, I hate hate hate the robot. And on the third hand, surely it's cheaper to just make your Star Wars inspired show a new IP. What brand power does Trek have with children?

    Is this not remarkably similar to our initial chat about Lower Decks?

    ETA: I haven’t seen TMP since I was a teen, but my reaction to it is probably also summarised by my having no desire to watch it again, despite not having seen it since I was a teen.

    CroakerBC on
    CambiataMancingtomCaedwyr
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited February 26
    I think First Contact is better than Generations, but I think Generations is a Star Trek story and First Contact is (more or less) not

    and Insurrection is also a Star Trek story but it's one of those Dear Doctor ones where the morality of everything is fucked and absolutist in the wrong way

    Generations felt like a perfectly serviceable mid-season two parter. Just a little tweak to un-crash the Enterprise after Picard and Kirk rewind time and it could have slotted into any season in the back half of TNG. Pairs well with Arrow of Time showing why Guinan has such a connection to Picard - she already had memories of him spanning centuries before he ever met her.


    Nemesis is Star Trek's equivalent of a disaster porn movie. Absolute unredeemable garbage when considered as a whole but the 15 minute version on Youtube is great.

    Hevach on
    override367StrikorNightslyr
  • StraygatsbyStraygatsby Registered User regular
    After the recent burst of Picard, Lower Decks, and Discovery S3, I kinda got hopped up on new Trek. I'm really kind of missing it right now. *itch* *scratch*

    I'm sure it's fine.

    Cambiataexis
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