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Voters Rights and the Suppression Thereof

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  • chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    I'm not even sure why "assisting voter voting ballot by mail" is a crime. The organized vote fraud stuff for sure needs to be illegal, but assisting somebody voting by mail doesn't seem like it should be illegal.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    chrisnl wrote: »
    I'm not even sure why "assisting voter voting ballot by mail" is a crime. The organized vote fraud stuff for sure needs to be illegal, but assisting somebody voting by mail doesn't seem like it should be illegal.

    Democrats launched a big campaign to make sure people knew how to fill out mail-in ballots as they are more complicated than regular ballots. This successfully reduced rejected ballot rates. This distressed Republicans because it hurts them when minorities vote.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    "Exploiting every loophole! Dodging every obstacle! They're penetrating the bureaucracy!"

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  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    chrisnl wrote: »
    I'm not even sure why "assisting voter voting ballot by mail" is a crime. The organized vote fraud stuff for sure needs to be illegal, but assisting somebody voting by mail doesn't seem like it should be illegal.

    Democrats launched a big campaign to make sure people knew how to fill out mail-in ballots as they are more complicated than regular ballots. This successfully reduced rejected ballot rates. This distressed Republicans because it hurts them when minorities vote.

    I voted by mail in the 2016 and 2018 elections and then in person in the 2020 election because I didn't want any question about my vote being valid.

    Frankly the in person ballot was way worse than the mail in ballot because I didn't have the ability to look up the candidates on my PC and double check my choices.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    chrisnl wrote: »
    I'm not even sure why "assisting voter voting ballot by mail" is a crime. The organized vote fraud stuff for sure needs to be illegal, but assisting somebody voting by mail doesn't seem like it should be illegal.

    Democrats launched a big campaign to make sure people knew how to fill out mail-in ballots as they are more complicated than regular ballots. This successfully reduced rejected ballot rates. This distressed Republicans because it hurts them when minorities vote.

    Frankly the in person ballot was way worse than the mail in ballot because I didn't have the ability to look up the candidates on my PC and double check my choices.

    Another thing that Republicans might be afraid of: people taking the time to actually Google the candidates.

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    chrisnl wrote: »
    I'm not even sure why "assisting voter voting ballot by mail" is a crime. The organized vote fraud stuff for sure needs to be illegal, but assisting somebody voting by mail doesn't seem like it should be illegal.

    Democrats launched a big campaign to make sure people knew how to fill out mail-in ballots as they are more complicated than regular ballots. This successfully reduced rejected ballot rates. This distressed Republicans because it hurts them when minorities vote.

    Frankly the in person ballot was way worse than the mail in ballot because I didn't have the ability to look up the candidates on my PC and double check my choices.

    Another thing that Republicans might be afraid of: people taking the time to actually Google the candidates.

    Might of helped with that Georgia "run a spoiler candidate with the same surname as the Democrat" race.

    Confusion and exclusion. Better than, you know, actually appealing to the voters on the merits of your platform.

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  • MillMill Registered User regular
    Not sure if rank voting
    chrisnl wrote: »
    I'm not even sure why "assisting voter voting ballot by mail" is a crime. The organized vote fraud stuff for sure needs to be illegal, but assisting somebody voting by mail doesn't seem like it should be illegal.

    Democrats launched a big campaign to make sure people knew how to fill out mail-in ballots as they are more complicated than regular ballots. This successfully reduced rejected ballot rates. This distressed Republicans because it hurts them when minorities vote.

    Frankly the in person ballot was way worse than the mail in ballot because I didn't have the ability to look up the candidates on my PC and double check my choices.

    Another thing that Republicans might be afraid of: people taking the time to actually Google the candidates.

    Definitely, as I mentioned in the VA thread in regards to shitty May elections. Very little was done to let people know those were happening. I'm pretty sure this isn't unique to VA. Add in the fact that you get a sizable drop off in local elections; especially, if they have shit setups that intentionally put them at a different time than national elections. You essentially, get a good recipe for some really shitty republicans to slither into office, that they wouldn't normally be able to win.

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  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    edited March 23
    Mill wrote:
    Another thing that Republicans might be afraid of: people taking the time to actually Google the candidates.

    Definitely, as I mentioned in the VA thread in regards to shitty May elections. Very little was done to let people know those were happening. I'm pretty sure this isn't unique to VA. Add in the fact that you get a sizable drop off in local elections; especially, if they have shit setups that intentionally put them at a different time than national elections. You essentially, get a good recipe for some really shitty republicans to slither into office, that they wouldn't normally be able to win.

    Absolutely not unique to VA. Weirdly timed local elections are specifically designed to reduce and control turnout.

    Like, where I live there was some local public vote that took place entirely one Sunday evening. I only found out about it the next Tuesday because someone had anonymously posted a printed rant across town about how shameful it was that so few people turned out to this vote*. There hadn't been public notices posted anywhere about it or any sort of notification about it. It'd be easy to miss since there are all the time tiny elections and votes about whatever minor side issue that most people don't pay attention to or know about, so only a few hyper-interested weirdoes and obsessives will control the voting and narrative.


    *Pretty sure the officially anonymous person was actually just mad that the vote decided that local property taxes should be raised by some nominal amount to pay for a budget shortfall for the town elementary school. I say this because I'm pretty sure I know exactly which obnoxious busybody it was that posted the rant. But this is aside from the point.

    Mayabird on
  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit ceterum censeoRegistered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    chrisnl wrote: »
    I'm not even sure why "assisting voter voting ballot by mail" is a crime. The organized vote fraud stuff for sure needs to be illegal, but assisting somebody voting by mail doesn't seem like it should be illegal.

    Democrats launched a big campaign to make sure people knew how to fill out mail-in ballots as they are more complicated than regular ballots. This successfully reduced rejected ballot rates. This distressed Republicans because it hurts them when minorities vote.

    Frankly the in person ballot was way worse than the mail in ballot because I didn't have the ability to look up the candidates on my PC and double check my choices.

    Another thing that Republicans might be afraid of: people taking the time to actually Google the candidates.

    Might of helped with that Georgia "run a spoiler candidate with the same surname as the Democrat" race.

    Confusion and exclusion. Better than, you know, actually appealing to the voters on the merits of your platform.

    Appealing to the voters on the merits of your platform requires you to actually have a platform though

    And that’s something the current Republican Party explicitly rejects

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited March 23
    https://apnews.com/article/legislature-voting-rights-ted-cruz-legislation-elections-6270306f67108ac16f4ee7b45a8afdb3
    On an invitation-only call last week, Sen. Ted Cruz huddled with Republican state lawmakers to call them to battle on the issue of voting rights.

    Democrats are trying to expand voting rights to “illegal aliens” and “child molesters,” he claimed, and Republicans must do all they can to stop them. If they push through far-reaching election legislation now before the Senate, the GOP won’t win elections again for generations, he said.
    Cruz’s statements, recorded by a person on the call and obtained by The Associated Press, capture the building intensity behind Republicans’ nationwide campaign to restrict access to the ballot. From statehouses to Washington, the fight over who can vote and how — often cast as “voting integrity” — has galvanized a Republican Party in search of unifying mission in the post-Trump era. For a powerful network of conservatives, voting restrictions are now viewed as a political life-or-death debate, and the fight has all-but eclipsed traditional Republican issues like abortion, gun rights and tax cuts as an organizing tool.

    Saw this article this morning and have been thinking about it, off and on, all day. It really does feel like we're heading for an existential fight over whether this country will continue to be a democracy, or one in name only. IMO the stakes are just as high as climate change, not least because the two issues are entwined - one party acknowledges and engages, the other denies and tries to line their pockets as the waters rise.

    One of the most frustrating things, to me, is how Trump has managed to muddy the waters and convince far too many people that this past election was somehow rigged, because of course he can't have lost fairly. Others have taken up this big lie and branded their efforts to intensify voter suppression as "restoring election integrity." One lobbyist quoted in the article claims that he's in support of "free and fair elections" - of course, he's anything but, and IMO he knows it. Many of his followers would probably be just as enthusiastic (if not more so) if he said what he's really in favor of - elections where only the right sort of people get to vote - but he knows what those who aren't fully in the tank for white supremacy want to hear.

    I'm genuinely worried that Trump and/or the GOP will yet manage to take this country down in flames with them. :(

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  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    Studies have shown that you lay out the hr1 voting bill and it’s overwhelmingly popular, that is until voters are made aware that republicans oppose it. Once it’s framed as partisan, even people that agree with it, oppose it because of the team impulse, and the sense that oh I must not know how it’s bad then but my representatives do. It’s incredibly frustrating, but it opens an Avenue wherein voting rights can be framed as protecting republicans right to vote as well

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    https://apnews.com/article/legislature-voting-rights-ted-cruz-legislation-elections-6270306f67108ac16f4ee7b45a8afdb3
    On an invitation-only call last week, Sen. Ted Cruz huddled with Republican state lawmakers to call them to battle on the issue of voting rights.

    Democrats are trying to expand voting rights to “illegal aliens” and “child molesters,” he claimed, and Republicans must do all they can to stop them. If they push through far-reaching election legislation now before the Senate, the GOP won’t win elections again for generations, he said.
    Cruz’s statements, recorded by a person on the call and obtained by The Associated Press, capture the building intensity behind Republicans’ nationwide campaign to restrict access to the ballot. From statehouses to Washington, the fight over who can vote and how — often cast as “voting integrity” — has galvanized a Republican Party in search of unifying mission in the post-Trump era. For a powerful network of conservatives, voting restrictions are now viewed as a political life-or-death debate, and the fight has all-but eclipsed traditional Republican issues like abortion, gun rights and tax cuts as an organizing tool.

    Saw this article this morning and have been thinking about it, off and on, all day. It really does feel like we're heading for an existential fight over whether this country will continue to be a democracy, or one in name only. IMO the stakes are just as high as climate change, not least because the two issues are entwined - one party acknowledges and engages, the other denies and tries to line their pockets as the waters rise.

    One of the most frustrating things, to me, is how Trump has managed to muddy the waters and convince far too many people that this past election was somehow rigged, because of course he can't have lost fairly. Others have taken up this big lie and branded their efforts to intensify voter suppression as "restoring election integrity." One lobbyist quoted in the article claims that he's in support of "free and fair elections" - of course, he's anything but, and IMO he knows it. Many of his followers would probably be just as enthusiastic (if not more so) if he said what he's really in favor of - elections where only the right sort of people get to vote - but he knows what those who aren't fully in the tank for white supremacy want to hear.

    I'm genuinely worried that Trump and/or the GOP will yet manage to take this country down in flames with them. :(

    So far most of the bullshit voter disenfranchisement efforts that Republicans have attempted have mostly failed or backfired somewhat in actual vote totals. HR-1 is absolutely necessary and a needed assurance of voting access, but it's absence is not the death knell of the Republic. James Crow, Esquire is just plain less effective than Jim Crow was. Thankfully.

  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    https://apnews.com/article/legislature-voting-rights-ted-cruz-legislation-elections-6270306f67108ac16f4ee7b45a8afdb3
    On an invitation-only call last week, Sen. Ted Cruz huddled with Republican state lawmakers to call them to battle on the issue of voting rights.

    Democrats are trying to expand voting rights to “illegal aliens” and “child molesters,” he claimed, and Republicans must do all they can to stop them. If they push through far-reaching election legislation now before the Senate, the GOP won’t win elections again for generations, he said.
    Cruz’s statements, recorded by a person on the call and obtained by The Associated Press, capture the building intensity behind Republicans’ nationwide campaign to restrict access to the ballot. From statehouses to Washington, the fight over who can vote and how — often cast as “voting integrity” — has galvanized a Republican Party in search of unifying mission in the post-Trump era. For a powerful network of conservatives, voting restrictions are now viewed as a political life-or-death debate, and the fight has all-but eclipsed traditional Republican issues like abortion, gun rights and tax cuts as an organizing tool.

    Saw this article this morning and have been thinking about it, off and on, all day. It really does feel like we're heading for an existential fight over whether this country will continue to be a democracy, or one in name only. IMO the stakes are just as high as climate change, not least because the two issues are entwined - one party acknowledges and engages, the other denies and tries to line their pockets as the waters rise.

    One of the most frustrating things, to me, is how Trump has managed to muddy the waters and convince far too many people that this past election was somehow rigged, because of course he can't have lost fairly. Others have taken up this big lie and branded their efforts to intensify voter suppression as "restoring election integrity." One lobbyist quoted in the article claims that he's in support of "free and fair elections" - of course, he's anything but, and IMO he knows it. Many of his followers would probably be just as enthusiastic (if not more so) if he said what he's really in favor of - elections where only the right sort of people get to vote - but he knows what those who aren't fully in the tank for white supremacy want to hear.

    I'm genuinely worried that Trump and/or the GOP will yet manage to take this country down in flames with them. :(

    So far most of the bullshit voter disenfranchisement efforts that Republicans have attempted have mostly failed or backfired somewhat in actual vote totals. HR-1 is absolutely necessary and a needed assurance of voting access, but it's absence is not the death knell of the Republic. James Crow, Esquire is just plain less effective than Jim Crow was. Thankfully.

    I dunno, there's a lot of really bad new sh-- stuff being put up in various state legislatures... :(

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    https://apnews.com/article/legislature-voting-rights-ted-cruz-legislation-elections-6270306f67108ac16f4ee7b45a8afdb3
    On an invitation-only call last week, Sen. Ted Cruz huddled with Republican state lawmakers to call them to battle on the issue of voting rights.

    Democrats are trying to expand voting rights to “illegal aliens” and “child molesters,” he claimed, and Republicans must do all they can to stop them. If they push through far-reaching election legislation now before the Senate, the GOP won’t win elections again for generations, he said.
    Cruz’s statements, recorded by a person on the call and obtained by The Associated Press, capture the building intensity behind Republicans’ nationwide campaign to restrict access to the ballot. From statehouses to Washington, the fight over who can vote and how — often cast as “voting integrity” — has galvanized a Republican Party in search of unifying mission in the post-Trump era. For a powerful network of conservatives, voting restrictions are now viewed as a political life-or-death debate, and the fight has all-but eclipsed traditional Republican issues like abortion, gun rights and tax cuts as an organizing tool.

    Saw this article this morning and have been thinking about it, off and on, all day. It really does feel like we're heading for an existential fight over whether this country will continue to be a democracy, or one in name only. IMO the stakes are just as high as climate change, not least because the two issues are entwined - one party acknowledges and engages, the other denies and tries to line their pockets as the waters rise.

    One of the most frustrating things, to me, is how Trump has managed to muddy the waters and convince far too many people that this past election was somehow rigged, because of course he can't have lost fairly. Others have taken up this big lie and branded their efforts to intensify voter suppression as "restoring election integrity." One lobbyist quoted in the article claims that he's in support of "free and fair elections" - of course, he's anything but, and IMO he knows it. Many of his followers would probably be just as enthusiastic (if not more so) if he said what he's really in favor of - elections where only the right sort of people get to vote - but he knows what those who aren't fully in the tank for white supremacy want to hear.

    I'm genuinely worried that Trump and/or the GOP will yet manage to take this country down in flames with them. :(

    So far most of the bullshit voter disenfranchisement efforts that Republicans have attempted have mostly failed or backfired somewhat in actual vote totals. HR-1 is absolutely necessary and a needed assurance of voting access, but it's absence is not the death knell of the Republic. James Crow, Esquire is just plain less effective than Jim Crow was. Thankfully.

    I dunno, there's a lot of really bad new sh-- stuff being put up in various state legislatures... :(

    And not just states that are overwhelmingly Republican only. We've already seen some of the MidWest states that are majority Democrat by voter, minority by representative, start attempting to impose restrictions that could keep their state red indefinitely.

    Commander ZoomElldrenMayabirdElvenshaeMoridin889Veagle
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    https://apnews.com/article/legislature-voting-rights-ted-cruz-legislation-elections-6270306f67108ac16f4ee7b45a8afdb3
    On an invitation-only call last week, Sen. Ted Cruz huddled with Republican state lawmakers to call them to battle on the issue of voting rights.

    Democrats are trying to expand voting rights to “illegal aliens” and “child molesters,” he claimed, and Republicans must do all they can to stop them. If they push through far-reaching election legislation now before the Senate, the GOP won’t win elections again for generations, he said.
    Cruz’s statements, recorded by a person on the call and obtained by The Associated Press, capture the building intensity behind Republicans’ nationwide campaign to restrict access to the ballot. From statehouses to Washington, the fight over who can vote and how — often cast as “voting integrity” — has galvanized a Republican Party in search of unifying mission in the post-Trump era. For a powerful network of conservatives, voting restrictions are now viewed as a political life-or-death debate, and the fight has all-but eclipsed traditional Republican issues like abortion, gun rights and tax cuts as an organizing tool.

    Saw this article this morning and have been thinking about it, off and on, all day. It really does feel like we're heading for an existential fight over whether this country will continue to be a democracy, or one in name only. IMO the stakes are just as high as climate change, not least because the two issues are entwined - one party acknowledges and engages, the other denies and tries to line their pockets as the waters rise.

    One of the most frustrating things, to me, is how Trump has managed to muddy the waters and convince far too many people that this past election was somehow rigged, because of course he can't have lost fairly. Others have taken up this big lie and branded their efforts to intensify voter suppression as "restoring election integrity." One lobbyist quoted in the article claims that he's in support of "free and fair elections" - of course, he's anything but, and IMO he knows it. Many of his followers would probably be just as enthusiastic (if not more so) if he said what he's really in favor of - elections where only the right sort of people get to vote - but he knows what those who aren't fully in the tank for white supremacy want to hear.

    I'm genuinely worried that Trump and/or the GOP will yet manage to take this country down in flames with them. :(

    So far most of the bullshit voter disenfranchisement efforts that Republicans have attempted have mostly failed or backfired somewhat in actual vote totals. HR-1 is absolutely necessary and a needed assurance of voting access, but it's absence is not the death knell of the Republic. James Crow, Esquire is just plain less effective than Jim Crow was. Thankfully.

    That's because they weren't really trying. They thought they were safe, now they know they aren't and are dialing up their efforts accordingly.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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  • BigJoeMBigJoeM Registered User regular
    Republicans thought they had Arizona and Georgia on lock. They have seen what happened in Virginia and they will do everything they can to prevent other states from going the same way.

    HR1 must pass. Period.

    By hook or crook that bill needs to get Biden's signature.

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    BigJoeM wrote: »
    Republicans thought they had Arizona and Georgia on lock. They have seen what happened in Virginia and they will do everything they can to prevent other states from going the same way.

    HR1 must pass. Period.

    By hook or crook that bill needs to get Biden's signature.

    And be structurally solid enough to pass through a likely hostile SCOTUS.

    While there's no certainty that SCOTUS rules against, you couldn't ask for a more sure thing than Republicans suing all the way through the appeals system.

    That's why it needs to happen soon, if not immediately. There's probably too little time to have it in place before 2022, but it absolutely needs to be for 2024.

    If the appeals system/SCOTUS are able to drag it out like they did the Trump emoluments/tax issues, it's going to be moot. Republicans take the White House in 2024 with the help of scumfuckers at the state level, and that's probably it for democracy in America.

    Biden’s win is a reprieve, but if can't be allowed to be squandered.

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  • BigJoeMBigJoeM Registered User regular
    edited March 23
    I'm cool with Biden going Jackson on SCOTUS. It hasn't been legitimate for quite a while but especially since Shelby.

    He won't but that would be a valid move.

    BigJoeM on
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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    BigJoeM wrote: »
    I'm cool with Biden going Jackson on SCOTUS. It hasn't been legitimate for quite a while but especially since Shelby.

    Expecting Biden to do this is simply setting yourself up fpr disappointment.

    However, I think Biden has made pretty clear that at the very least he will fight for filibuster reform to get this through.

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  • BigJoeMBigJoeM Registered User regular
    I don't expect him to. He's too old and married to the idea of the Republican party as legitimate.

    Striking down a new voting rights act could be the straw that breaks the camel's back for the majority of Americans, though.

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  • MillMill Registered User regular
    One factor we should keep in mind here. Most of the fucking pigs that make up the GOP got there through the current system and then we have a few that got there cheating the current system. We have zero fucking pigs in office that got there by using violence. The inevitable outcome of the GOP's attempt to keep power is going to lead to a standoff where an oppressed majority is going to end up likely killing some of these fuckers in an attempt to fix things. Hell, I'd wager when that happens, you'll see the GOP fold and bawl like the little shit pigs that they are because these fuckers are used to getting what they want with minimal effort. They are also fucking cowards, they'll be somewhere to murder someone they don't like when the deck is stack to ensure they have zero skin in the game, but the moment that a micrometer of their skin is exposed they are out.

    There is also the fact that many GOP attempts to keep the vote have failed. Virginia actually is a prime example of this, which makes it funny how a ton of the pigs look at what has happened in my state of residence and decided they'll pull out everything they can to keep power. They tried that in Virginia and they still lost power. People figure out how to get around their bullshit and when that shit is targeted at certain groups, it ensures those groups end up being hostile to the GOP. They eventually have to go with routes that hit their own voters and funnily enough, most get out the vote groups that exist up to that point, just aren't interested in digging the GOP or the voters out of the whole they put themselves in. Why would they, when they've spend years fighting both fucking groups to make sure everyone gets to vote. Let the republicans taking their self inflicted lumps and then when you remove those holes, it's because they shot themselves in the dicks trying to keep power and once they are out, you just dismantle everything they put in place to cheat the system. On gerrymandering, depending on demographics, you do hit a point where even that won't help you because that is what happened in Virginia, it became impossible to gerrymander without the racial component and once they lost that, the GOP lost a ton of power in the state.

    I'd love to get HR1 passed because I'd like to cut these pigs down ASAP. There are a ton of important issues that can't be properly addressed because the fucking pigs of the republican party ensure that those issues will never get addressed. Maybe they do it out of greed or bigotry, but it hardly fucking matters. It's why I get pissed at their voters because if their voters did even the tiniest bit of thinking, they'd realize their republican elected officials need to be shot out of the solar system. Instead a ton of them are happy to play team sports with politics, with some being super shitty bigots. I mean, I swear to god, I don't ever want to see a republican mention Christian values, I used to be a Christian, these fuckers aren't Christian because they make a point to shit all over Jesus's teachings.

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    https://apnews.com/article/legislature-voting-rights-ted-cruz-legislation-elections-6270306f67108ac16f4ee7b45a8afdb3
    On an invitation-only call last week, Sen. Ted Cruz huddled with Republican state lawmakers to call them to battle on the issue of voting rights.

    Democrats are trying to expand voting rights to “illegal aliens” and “child molesters,” he claimed, and Republicans must do all they can to stop them. If they push through far-reaching election legislation now before the Senate, the GOP won’t win elections again for generations, he said.
    Cruz’s statements, recorded by a person on the call and obtained by The Associated Press, capture the building intensity behind Republicans’ nationwide campaign to restrict access to the ballot. From statehouses to Washington, the fight over who can vote and how — often cast as “voting integrity” — has galvanized a Republican Party in search of unifying mission in the post-Trump era. For a powerful network of conservatives, voting restrictions are now viewed as a political life-or-death debate, and the fight has all-but eclipsed traditional Republican issues like abortion, gun rights and tax cuts as an organizing tool.

    Saw this article this morning and have been thinking about it, off and on, all day. It really does feel like we're heading for an existential fight over whether this country will continue to be a democracy, or one in name only. IMO the stakes are just as high as climate change, not least because the two issues are entwined - one party acknowledges and engages, the other denies and tries to line their pockets as the waters rise.

    One of the most frustrating things, to me, is how Trump has managed to muddy the waters and convince far too many people that this past election was somehow rigged, because of course he can't have lost fairly. Others have taken up this big lie and branded their efforts to intensify voter suppression as "restoring election integrity." One lobbyist quoted in the article claims that he's in support of "free and fair elections" - of course, he's anything but, and IMO he knows it. Many of his followers would probably be just as enthusiastic (if not more so) if he said what he's really in favor of - elections where only the right sort of people get to vote - but he knows what those who aren't fully in the tank for white supremacy want to hear.

    I'm genuinely worried that Trump and/or the GOP will yet manage to take this country down in flames with them. :(

    So far most of the bullshit voter disenfranchisement efforts that Republicans have attempted have mostly failed or backfired somewhat in actual vote totals. HR-1 is absolutely necessary and a needed assurance of voting access, but it's absence is not the death knell of the Republic. James Crow, Esquire is just plain less effective than Jim Crow was. Thankfully.

    That's because they weren't really trying. They thought they were safe, now they know they aren't and are dialing up their efforts accordingly.

    Nope, they were. But Democrats and voter organizations were able to vault the hurdles and likely will again. It should not require this much effort to vote, but the effort can be put in. And then you get Virginia.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    BigJoeM wrote: »
    I don't expect him to. He's too old and married to the idea of the Republican party as legitimate.

    Striking down a new voting rights act could be the straw that breaks the camel's back for the majority of Americans, though.

    Polling suggests that's not gonna happen. As soon as you tell voters it's a partisan issue, everyone lines up on their sides of the line. Republican voters are only in favour of any kind of voting rights act so long as they don't view it as partisan.

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    BigJoeM wrote: »
    I don't expect him to. He's too old and married to the idea of the Republican party as legitimate.

    Striking down a new voting rights act could be the straw that breaks the camel's back for the majority of Americans, though.

    Polling suggests that's not gonna happen. As soon as you tell voters it's a partisan issue, everyone lines up on their sides of the line. Republican voters are only in favour of any kind of voting rights act so long as they don't view it as partisan.

    Republican lawmakers are openly saying they want to restrict voting so that only "good quality" voters are able to participate.

    Everyone can read between the lines and see what they're talking about. I'm not saying this discourages the Republican base. Quite the opposite.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    BigJoeM wrote: »
    I don't expect him to. He's too old and married to the idea of the Republican party as legitimate.

    Striking down a new voting rights act could be the straw that breaks the camel's back for the majority of Americans, though.

    Polling suggests that's not gonna happen. As soon as you tell voters it's a partisan issue, everyone lines up on their sides of the line. Republican voters are only in favour of any kind of voting rights act so long as they don't view it as partisan.

    Republican lawmakers are openly saying they want to restrict voting so that only "good quality" voters are able to participate.

    Everyone can read between the lines and see what they're talking about. I'm not saying this discourages the Republican base. Quite the opposite.

    Everyone should be able to, but I fear that some people have their heads so far in the sand that they can't hear dogwhistles.

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    BigJoeM wrote: »
    I don't expect him to. He's too old and married to the idea of the Republican party as legitimate.

    Striking down a new voting rights act could be the straw that breaks the camel's back for the majority of Americans, though.

    Polling suggests that's not gonna happen. As soon as you tell voters it's a partisan issue, everyone lines up on their sides of the line. Republican voters are only in favour of any kind of voting rights act so long as they don't view it as partisan.

    Republican lawmakers are openly saying they want to restrict voting so that only "good quality" voters are able to participate.

    Everyone can read between the lines and see what they're talking about. I'm not saying this discourages the Republican base. Quite the opposite.

    Everyone should be able to, but I fear that some people have their heads so far in the sand that they can't hear dogwhistles.

    They hear "good quality votes" and they understand it isn't going to impact their ability to vote, and therefore they do not need to be concerned.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    BigJoeM wrote: »
    I don't expect him to. He's too old and married to the idea of the Republican party as legitimate.

    Striking down a new voting rights act could be the straw that breaks the camel's back for the majority of Americans, though.

    Polling suggests that's not gonna happen. As soon as you tell voters it's a partisan issue, everyone lines up on their sides of the line. Republican voters are only in favour of any kind of voting rights act so long as they don't view it as partisan.

    Republican lawmakers are openly saying they want to restrict voting so that only "good quality" voters are able to participate.

    Everyone can read between the lines and see what they're talking about. I'm not saying this discourages the Republican base. Quite the opposite.

    I would bet a huge number of them also believe there was election fraud last time and so they need to stop it from happening again. The number of Republican voters that believe the election was stolen is scary high and the number of republican elected officials or power players not also drinking the koolaid is shrinking every year.

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    They are purposefully conflating Democrats claiming that Russia influenced the 2016 election (true) and that voters were purposefully disenfranchised in places like Georgia (also true) and their wholly false claims about voter fraud in 2020.

    The media is complicit if they do not call out this false equivalency every single time it occurs.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Unfortunately, you can just stop at "the media is complicit". :(

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  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    BigJoeM wrote: »
    I don't expect him to. He's too old and married to the idea of the Republican party as legitimate.

    Striking down a new voting rights act could be the straw that breaks the camel's back for the majority of Americans, though.

    Polling suggests that's not gonna happen. As soon as you tell voters it's a partisan issue, everyone lines up on their sides of the line. Republican voters are only in favour of any kind of voting rights act so long as they don't view it as partisan.

    Republican lawmakers are openly saying they want to restrict voting so that only "good quality" voters are able to participate.

    Everyone can read between the lines and see what they're talking about. I'm not saying this discourages the Republican base. Quite the opposite.

    I would bet a huge number of them also believe there was election fraud last time* and so they need to stop it from happening again. The number of Republican voters that believe the election was stolen is scary high and the number of republican elected officials or power players not also drinking the koolaid is shrinking every year.

    * in elections that weren’t their own. They were totally legally elected, it’s other elections that were fraudulent, often on the same ballot.

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  • HydropoloHydropolo Registered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    BigJoeM wrote: »
    I don't expect him to. He's too old and married to the idea of the Republican party as legitimate.

    Striking down a new voting rights act could be the straw that breaks the camel's back for the majority of Americans, though.

    Polling suggests that's not gonna happen. As soon as you tell voters it's a partisan issue, everyone lines up on their sides of the line. Republican voters are only in favour of any kind of voting rights act so long as they don't view it as partisan.

    Republican lawmakers are openly saying they want to restrict voting so that only "good quality" voters are able to participate.

    Everyone can read between the lines and see what they're talking about. I'm not saying this discourages the Republican base. Quite the opposite.

    I would bet a huge number of them also believe there was election fraud last time* and so they need to stop it from happening again. The number of Republican voters that believe the election was stolen is scary high and the number of republican elected officials or power players not also drinking the koolaid is shrinking every year.

    * in elections that weren’t their own. They were totally legally elected, it’s other elections that were fraudulent, often on the same ballot.

    Really? Trump claimed he won despite massive fraud during his first election.

    Zibblsnrtshryke
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    BigJoeM wrote: »
    I don't expect him to. He's too old and married to the idea of the Republican party as legitimate.

    Striking down a new voting rights act could be the straw that breaks the camel's back for the majority of Americans, though.

    Polling suggests that's not gonna happen. As soon as you tell voters it's a partisan issue, everyone lines up on their sides of the line. Republican voters are only in favour of any kind of voting rights act so long as they don't view it as partisan.

    Republican lawmakers are openly saying they want to restrict voting so that only "good quality" voters are able to participate.

    Everyone can read between the lines and see what they're talking about. I'm not saying this discourages the Republican base. Quite the opposite.

    I would bet a huge number of them also believe there was election fraud last time* and so they need to stop it from happening again. The number of Republican voters that believe the election was stolen is scary high and the number of republican elected officials or power players not also drinking the koolaid is shrinking every year.

    * in elections that weren’t their own. They were totally legally elected, it’s other elections that were fraudulent, often on the same ballot.

    Really? Trump claimed he won despite massive fraud during his first election.

    I believe Elvenshae is referring to how Republicans have been suggesting the 2020 election was rigged, but not in such a way that means the Republicans being elected to any position is to be questioned.

    The Democrats only rigged the Presidential election and none of the down-ticket ones, somehow. Oh, except for the ones where the Democrat won.

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  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited March 24
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    BigJoeM wrote: »
    I don't expect him to. He's too old and married to the idea of the Republican party as legitimate.

    Striking down a new voting rights act could be the straw that breaks the camel's back for the majority of Americans, though.

    Polling suggests that's not gonna happen. As soon as you tell voters it's a partisan issue, everyone lines up on their sides of the line. Republican voters are only in favour of any kind of voting rights act so long as they don't view it as partisan.

    Republican lawmakers are openly saying they want to restrict voting so that only "good quality" voters are able to participate.

    Everyone can read between the lines and see what they're talking about. I'm not saying this discourages the Republican base. Quite the opposite.

    I would bet a huge number of them also believe there was election fraud last time* and so they need to stop it from happening again. The number of Republican voters that believe the election was stolen is scary high and the number of republican elected officials or power players not also drinking the koolaid is shrinking every year.

    * in elections that weren’t their own. They were totally legally elected, it’s other elections that were fraudulent, often on the same ballot.

    Really? Trump claimed he won despite massive fraud during his first election.

    I believe Elvenshae is referring to how Republicans have been suggesting the 2020 election was rigged, but not in such a way that means the Republicans being elected to any position is to be questioned.

    The Democrats only rigged the Presidential election and none of the down-ticket ones, somehow. Oh, except for the ones where the Democrat won.

    Yes, for instance, Rep. Wittman (R-VA) had all kinds of objections re: the integrity of the election.

    In Pennsylvania.

    Because his constituents had “questions.”

    That he encouraged.

    Elvenshae on
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  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    edited March 24


    Executive editor of The Prospect, David Dayen, on Manchin saying a new Voting Rights bill needs GOP support
    welp.

    Lanz on
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  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    edited March 24
    Bloomberg wrote:
    “We should not at all attempt to do anything to that will create more distrust and division,” Manchin told reporters on Wednesday. “So I think there’s enough good that we can all come together. That’s what we should work on.”

    The West Virginia Democrat’s independent streak is posing challenges for Schumer in a Senate split 50-50 between the parties as he tries to push through President Joe Biden’s agenda. Manchin has also resisted pressure to end the filibuster, which requires 60 votes to act on most legislation.


    What a miserable, useless man

    GOP is working to disenfranchise anyone who statistically is likely to oppose their Forever Rule, and this asshole is begging for folks to be nice to them

    Just fucking defect already and be done with it

    Lanz on
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  • TenekTenek Registered User regular
    Lanz wrote: »
    Bloomberg wrote:
    “We should not at all attempt to do anything to that will create more distrust and division,” Manchin told reporters on Wednesday. “So I think there’s enough good that we can all come together. That’s what we should work on.”

    The West Virginia Democrat’s independent streak is posing challenges for Schumer in a Senate split 50-50 between the parties as he tries to push through President Joe Biden’s agenda. Manchin has also resisted pressure to end the filibuster, which requires 60 votes to act on most legislation.


    What a miserable, useless man

    GOP is working to disenfranchise anyone who statistically is likely to oppose their Forever Rule, and this asshole is begging for folks to be nice to them

    Just fucking defect already and be done with it

    Eh. Honestly, this is all posturing until the vote. Draft a bill that Manchin supports and then see how he handles failed cloture.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    If he does end up voting for the thing, then I'll just be very disappointed that he apparently needs to lie to his constituents, the media and the rest of the country about what he actually supports.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    It's more you bring the damn thing to the floor and force him to actually vote against it. With a ton of pressure from the base, probably.

    Though West Virginia so who knows.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
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  • FryFry Registered User regular
    Lanz wrote: »
    Bloomberg wrote:
    “We should not at all attempt to do anything to that will create more distrust and division,” Manchin told reporters on Wednesday. “So I think there’s enough good that we can all come together. That’s what we should work on.”

    The West Virginia Democrat’s independent streak is posing challenges for Schumer in a Senate split 50-50 between the parties as he tries to push through President Joe Biden’s agenda. Manchin has also resisted pressure to end the filibuster, which requires 60 votes to act on most legislation.


    What a miserable, useless man

    GOP is working to disenfranchise anyone who statistically is likely to oppose their Forever Rule, and this asshole is begging for folks to be nice to them

    Just fucking defect already and be done with it

    I've had more than enough Majority Leader Mcconnell, thanks

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Tenek wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    Bloomberg wrote:
    “We should not at all attempt to do anything to that will create more distrust and division,” Manchin told reporters on Wednesday. “So I think there’s enough good that we can all come together. That’s what we should work on.”

    The West Virginia Democrat’s independent streak is posing challenges for Schumer in a Senate split 50-50 between the parties as he tries to push through President Joe Biden’s agenda. Manchin has also resisted pressure to end the filibuster, which requires 60 votes to act on most legislation.


    What a miserable, useless man

    GOP is working to disenfranchise anyone who statistically is likely to oppose their Forever Rule, and this asshole is begging for folks to be nice to them

    Just fucking defect already and be done with it

    Eh. Honestly, this is all posturing until the vote. Draft a bill that Manchin supports and then see how he handles failed cloture.

    By supporting the continued existence of the Filibuster, like he's stated. Maybe they manage to reform it to something where it means we get a week of Lindsay Graham reading a phone book and then Voting Rights, but probably not.

    Biden's legislative agenda is over outside of budgetary issues that can pass via Reconciliation. At this point Congress will mostly be useful for filling appointments and oversight hearings, since Manchin being a Democrat means we have Committee Chairs and gavels.

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