I've hit level 80 and am considering buying the season pass. But the only thing that really looks nice is the level 75 sleeve so I'll probably pass on it unless there're other reasons to get it? Not a fan of the pet and I don't care that much about card skins, so it doesn't seem worth it.
It's hard to properly quantify everything for everyone but generally even just the extra packs and mythic ICRs make it worthwhile, depending on your interest and collection.
edit: let's get that quoted, and also - that only holds true when you've fully completed the mastery like you have, since it also gives you back like 1k gems in addition to all the packs.
I've hit level 80 and am considering buying the season pass. But the only thing that really looks nice is the level 75 sleeve so I'll probably pass on it unless there're other reasons to get it? Not a fan of the pet and I don't care that much about card skins, so it doesn't seem worth it.
Generally you break even on the mastery pass around level 50, I think? Depends on the pass. That's assuming you don't assign any value to cosmetics.
Assuming a mastery pass is $25, and $25 gets you 4150 gems, and a single pack of cards is 200 gems, you'd need 21 packs of cards (or 200 gems, or 1000 gold) to break even. Just browsing through this mastery pass, looks like you break even in the mid 40s and start getting 'free' stuff at 50. You also get a considerable number of mythics.
Again, that's if you don't consider any of the cosmetics to have dollar value. Personally I think this pass has some of the best mastery orb choices, and they did pretty great job on the alt-art for Kaldheim.
edit: Oh, don't forget the draft pass. I don't play enough limited to know what they're worth. You also get playsets of multiple cards (some rares) that don't drop in the kaldheim packs (Canopy Tactitician, Cleaving Reaper).
SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
And if for example you dropped wildcards for a playset of eg Canopy Tacticians for a deck, you get the gems off each when you hit that stage of the pass.
I've always made the gem cost back on the pass one way or another fwiw, so they are more or less "free", which makes them excellent value imo.
I've hit level 80 and am considering buying the season pass. But the only thing that really looks nice is the level 75 sleeve so I'll probably pass on it unless there're other reasons to get it? Not a fan of the pet and I don't care that much about card skins, so it doesn't seem worth it.
Generally you break even on the mastery pass around level 50, I think? Depends on the pass. That's assuming you don't assign any value to cosmetics.
Assuming a mastery pass is $25, and $25 gets you 4150 gems, and a single pack of cards is 200 gems, you'd need 21 packs of cards (or 200 gems, or 1000 gold) to break even. Just browsing through this mastery pass, looks like you break even in the mid 40s and start getting 'free' stuff at 50. You also get a considerable number of mythics.
Again, that's if you don't consider any of the cosmetics to have dollar value. Personally I think this pass has some of the best mastery orb choices, and they did pretty great job on the alt-art for Kaldheim.
edit: Oh, don't forget the draft pass. I don't play enough limited to know what they're worth. You also get playsets of multiple cards (some rares) that don't drop in the kaldheim packs (Canopy Tactitician, Cleaving Reaper).
Draft token is good for one Player draft (Bo1 or Bo3), which is 10K gold/1.5k gems.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Is the mastery pass for the next set only bought with real money or will we be able to get it with gems?
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
After switching to UW Yorion hate, back to Lurrus disenchantment for diamond.
So far vs mono-W aggro, 2xred aggro, 1xYorion, 1xAdventures+haste dragon.
Then Yorion, 2xred aggro
Tearing through platinum Bo1 with Lurrus disenchantment.
Think I've lost twice (concede to Yorion and 60-card-black-removal-to-presumed-Ugin) and almost to Rank 1.
There is just so much aggro feeding my Hateful Edilon / debuff draw.
It is also sort of amazing the difference that I've got between this and foretell/flash.
Aggro disruption that falls to creature-less decks and late-game counter engine that falls to aggro.
Have you posted your deck list? Inquiring minds want to know...
Deck
4 Mire's Grasp (THB) 106
5 Swamp (IKO) 268
4 Hateful Eidolon (THB) 101
4 Omen of the Dead (THB) 110
5 Plains (IKO) 262
4 Funeral Rites (THB) 97
4 Transcendent Envoy (THB) 40
4 Lurrus of the Dream-Den (IKO) 226
3 Temple of Silence (M21) 255
1 Temple of Silence (M20) 256
2 Archon of Sun's Grace (THB) 3
3 Mogis's Favor (THB) 107
4 All That Glitters (ELD) 2
3 Dead Weight (IKO) 83
3 Castle Locthwain (ELD) 241
2 Agadeem's Awakening (ZNR) 90
3 Sejiri Shelter (ZNR) 37
2 Withercrown (KHM) 119
Basically been playing this for a year now.
Withercrown is okay sometimes, but was often not worth missing out on a Dead Weight or Mogis, and is the only new card.
The deck was having trouble with angels and giants because of the toughness, but those decks seem to have disappeared.
Also anything not running creatures (Ugin, Yorion)
The gameplan is always get Glitters to some extent, but with no creatures to feed off it becomes 'Get multiple Glitters before their wincon lands' and is much harder.
fwiw I run into lots and lots of angels decks in low platinum, they're probably just not a meta enough deck to hang out in your matchmaking range.
Tearing through platinum Bo1 with Lurrus disenchantment.
Think I've lost twice (concede to Yorion and 60-card-black-removal-to-presumed-Ugin) and almost to Rank 1.
There is just so much aggro feeding my Hateful Edilon / debuff draw.
It is also sort of amazing the difference that I've got between this and foretell/flash.
Aggro disruption that falls to creature-less decks and late-game counter engine that falls to aggro.
Have you posted your deck list? Inquiring minds want to know...
Deck
4 Mire's Grasp (THB) 106
5 Swamp (IKO) 268
4 Hateful Eidolon (THB) 101
4 Omen of the Dead (THB) 110
5 Plains (IKO) 262
4 Funeral Rites (THB) 97
4 Transcendent Envoy (THB) 40
4 Lurrus of the Dream-Den (IKO) 226
3 Temple of Silence (M21) 255
1 Temple of Silence (M20) 256
2 Archon of Sun's Grace (THB) 3
3 Mogis's Favor (THB) 107
4 All That Glitters (ELD) 2
3 Dead Weight (IKO) 83
3 Castle Locthwain (ELD) 241
2 Agadeem's Awakening (ZNR) 90
3 Sejiri Shelter (ZNR) 37
2 Withercrown (KHM) 119
Basically been playing this for a year now.
Withercrown is okay sometimes, but was often not worth missing out on a Dead Weight or Mogis, and is the only new card.
The deck was having trouble with angels and giants because of the toughness, but those decks seem to have disappeared.
Also anything not running creatures (Ugin, Yorion)
The gameplan is always get Glitters to some extent, but with no creatures to feed off it becomes 'Get multiple Glitters before their wincon lands' and is much harder.
fwiw I run into lots and lots of angels decks in low platinum, they're probably just not a meta enough deck to hang out in your matchmaking range.
Idk.
Mono-W has it good, with angels and clerics and lifegain and equipment
I saw a lot of the 2W 2/4 +2/2 lifegain angel, and the lose game angel.
It's more when there's a lot of big toughness creatures that the deck struggles.
But that's pure angels, not interspersed with one drop clerics and dogs and protection enchantment grain dudes.
Get the 1W 1/3 counter generating angel into the 2W angel and then there's problems
Just beat Yorion with Lurrus because while your deck might kill and exile all my stuff, my deck is at least consistent.
Still had to play through it though.
Hope he enjoyed his extra turns with only birds.
. . Consistent apparently meaning cause I kept all debuffs, I drew into creatures.
And his Valki saw the trashfire of a hand T2.
I’m still loving my trash tier Tergrid/Doom Foretold combo deck.
It’s me. I’m the Jenny
Mine went through a long stretch of bad matchups and getting stuck on 3 lands so I've reverted to my Eraser BW control deck. I still have Frightful Doom and love it but it's not a great call for me right now.
Just beat Yorion with Lurrus because while your deck might kill and exile all my stuff, my deck is at least consistent.
Still had to play through it though.
Hope he enjoyed his extra turns with only birds.
. . Consistent apparently meaning cause I kept all debuffs, I drew into creatures.
And his Valki saw the trashfire of a hand T2.
This is worst feeling. Play Valki on turn 2, see no creatures, begin to panic.
I've hit level 80 and am considering buying the season pass. But the only thing that really looks nice is the level 75 sleeve so I'll probably pass on it unless there're other reasons to get it? Not a fan of the pet and I don't care that much about card skins, so it doesn't seem worth it.
At level 80, you get a lot of gems/gold/mythic ICR/packs from the season pass and a draft token. Unless you already have complete complete collections of the previous sets and don't plan on drafting, it's the most efficient thing you can purchase with gems. You don't have to value the cosmetics at all for it to be worth it.
I am turning over in my head how I think about Magic. It's a rich, competitive game. Because there is such variety of cards and rich mechanics with a very high skill ceiling, there's capacity for someone to really be rewarded for being clever and knowing the game. But it also means that there's much more rigid tiers of play.
MTGA pretty much completely does away with truly sub-optimal deck play. The entry level of really playing is netdecking a tier 1 or 2 deck and learning to pilot it. There's gobs of room above it to actually be a better player, but it's still such a fraction of what would be available if more sub-optimal decks were played. You just throw out 80% of every set immediately to stratify to top level play.
Additionally, it's a friendly enough game in that the difference between being a f2p player and being a dolphin isn't that huge. F2P has most of the opportunity a dolphin has. But that means basically that both have access to 1 quick competitive deck, probably a monocolor deck, and then must save for a month or more for any additional deck. This makes being a f2p player or dolphin rather monotonous. You need to whale to really have access to a wider variety of decks, or have been playing long enough that you've got a stable of cards.
I contrast this with Runeterra, which is undeniably a less rich card game in that it's more random, and the complexities for skillful play are reduced. Buuuut. I also contrast it with not playing the monotony of the same few decks over and over, and having a win rate that's closer to 50%. Because the skill ceiling is so high in Magic, at some tiers I have a 75-100% win rate, and then I get higher and drop to a <25% win rate pretty clearly. In comparison, Runeterra aggressively tunes my games so that I have a really reliable win rate, as does my opponent.
And there's a core question there. Which is more fun? I'm pretty sure it's the game that offers more regular balance of win and defeat.
I dunno, this is a rambling thought but I'm trying to talk myself out of Magic I think. I love this game but I find it so monotonous so often, there's an illusion of more play than I really feel like I get out of it.
Additionally, it's a friendly enough game in that the difference between being a f2p player and being a dolphin isn't that huge. F2P has most of the opportunity a dolphin has. But that means basically that both have access to 1 quick competitive deck, probably a monocolor deck, and then must save for a month or more for any additional deck. This makes being a f2p player or dolphin rather monotonous. You need to whale to really have access to a wider variety of decks, or have been playing long enough that you've got a stable of cards.
admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
I think you've missed his point @Vyolynce -- it's not about how easy or hard it is to be competitive without collecting a lot of cards, it's about how being able to collect more cards allows you to build more complete but off-meta decks (while also building any on-meta decks you want). Runeterra, which is designed so that regular play will give you a full set of cards by the time the next set comes out, will naturally have a more diverse meta at all levels of play because more people are capable of building a wider variety of decks. Ultimately a majority of players will still tend towards the competitive mean, but the bell curve of Runeterra will be less hyper-focused than the curve of Arena.
I think it's a good and underestimated point when talking about the challenge of getting a full collection, and I am someone who could post a similar wildcard screenshot and have multiple T1 Standard decks, Historic decks, and Brawl decks, plus some jank.
My big issue with games like Runeterra is that I just never want to play them for very long.
Just beat Yorion with Lurrus because while your deck might kill and exile all my stuff, my deck is at least consistent.
Still had to play through it though.
Hope he enjoyed his extra turns with only birds.
. . Consistent apparently meaning cause I kept all debuffs, I drew into creatures.
And his Valki saw the trashfire of a hand T2.
This is worst feeling. Play Valki on turn 2, see no creatures, begin to panic.
Well, not really.
It's play Valki, see no creatures, see three negative auras and lands, think 'I don't play creatures', play cultivate next turn.
I never played Runeterra but I did play Hearthstone for non-magic CCG and netdecking and deck uniformity was not significantly different compared to MTG:A. People like to win and they'll play the decks that let them win more. There is no magical land of jank where people play bad decks against each other and that's perfectly fine. The joy of magic is that there is (usually) a wide range of competitive decks in the constructed environment and the limited environment is there for more varied card selection.
I never played Runeterra but I did play Hearthstone for non-magic CCG and netdecking and deck uniformity was not significantly different compared to MTG:A. People like to win and they'll play the decks that let them win more. There is no magical land of jank where people play bad decks against each other and that's perfectly fine. The joy of magic is that there is (usually) a wide range of competitive decks in the constructed environment and the limited environment is there for more varied card selection.
Hearthstone is the worst game to compare against, I think. It's really not a shining star of much.
What is this I don't even.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
Hearthstone is the actual worst F2P CCG economy and it's not close.
I don't know why they don't do more paper crossover with their products, like throw in an Arena code in to the challenger decks, guaranteed they'd sell more cardboard.
I think one of the reasons Magic ends up so samey is the complexity of the cards and the solvedness of the game. Without more mitigating unknown outcomes it's much easier to define perfect play. Solved perfect play means almost never doing pretty well with jank. Increased random outcomes means winning with jank more and therefore seeing it more.
Maybe I'm just tired of Eldraine though. At least once it rotates out I might see decks that are more substantially different than the ones last year and the year before.
Not that I'm smart enough to figure this out but I'm sure someone at WotC is... They can definitely figure out how to make a queue with proper deck and matchmaking requirements to encourage only off-meta decks and matches. Stuff like tracking "deck strength" and pairing history to make sure players see massive variety.
Currently Arena only caters to Spikes and WotC knows that a lot of players aren't Spikes. Arena just happens to be the only outlet to play Magic right now.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
You can't cater to deck strength because there is no single metric you can really use to consistently determine that.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
I think one of the reasons Magic ends up so samey is the complexity of the cards and the solvedness of the game. Without more mitigating unknown outcomes it's much easier to define perfect play. Solved perfect play means almost never doing pretty well with jank. Increased random outcomes means winning with jank more and therefore seeing it more.
Maybe I'm just tired of Eldraine though. At least once it rotates out I might see decks that are more substantially different than the ones last year and the year before.
It's really unfortunate when a high-power set is released at the beginning of a format and power level plummets from there. Even when the format is overall good (which I would argue it is now) it's hard to stay excited about it over multiple sets of no change. I definitely went hard on Standard post-Omnath ban and then dropped off just as hard.
Not that I'm smart enough to figure this out but I'm sure someone at WotC is... They can definitely figure out how to make a queue with proper deck and matchmaking requirements to encourage only off-meta decks and matches. Stuff like tracking "deck strength" and pairing history to make sure players see massive variety.
Currently Arena only caters to Spikes and WotC knows that a lot of players aren't Spikes. Arena just happens to be the only outlet to play Magic right now.
I'm not sure that they don't try to do this.
I sort of feel like I run into two kinds of decks: meta and 'mirror', where mirror decks share one or more cards with my deck.
This might be confirmation bias though.
Like the only truly odd-ball decks I play against typically share cards with my current deck.
Honestly, changing daily wins to daily games played would probably go a ways to help
It is generally a very bad idea to implement any F2P rewards system where where optimal play pattern is intentionally losing. You really do not want your queue every day to be 20% people conceding t0 for their daily grind.
Honestly, changing daily wins to daily games played would probably go a ways to help
It is generally a very bad idea to implement any F2P rewards system where where optimal play pattern is intentionally losing. You really do not want your queue every day to be 20% people conceding t0 for their daily grind.
It's a good thing you can put some other requirements for it to qualify. And yes you could still game it to whatever degree depending on what those requirements were.
Though I'm struggling to think why I would care. 20% instant free wins in exchange for more people being willing to play off-meta in play queue...sounds rough.
Honestly, changing daily wins to daily games played would probably go a ways to help
It is generally a very bad idea to implement any F2P rewards system where where optimal play pattern is intentionally losing. You really do not want your queue every day to be 20% people conceding t0 for their daily grind.
It's a good thing you can put some other requirements for it to qualify. And yes you could still game it to whatever degree depending on what those requirements were.
Though I'm struggling to think why I would care. 20% instant free wins in exchange for more people being willing to play off-meta in play queue...sounds rough.
I really don't think you have experience with heavily botted games if you think that a bunch of non-games that delay your ability to actually play is something that can be shrugged off.
And sure, you can put more restrictions on it to make it so people don't tank games or otherwise waste time for rewards. The most obvious and successful one is "make it so you have to win", because everybody has about a 50% win rate so it's very easy to set up.
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It's hard to properly quantify everything for everyone but generally even just the extra packs and mythic ICRs make it worthwhile, depending on your interest and collection.
edit: let's get that quoted, and also - that only holds true when you've fully completed the mastery like you have, since it also gives you back like 1k gems in addition to all the packs.
Generally you break even on the mastery pass around level 50, I think? Depends on the pass. That's assuming you don't assign any value to cosmetics.
Assuming a mastery pass is $25, and $25 gets you 4150 gems, and a single pack of cards is 200 gems, you'd need 21 packs of cards (or 200 gems, or 1000 gold) to break even. Just browsing through this mastery pass, looks like you break even in the mid 40s and start getting 'free' stuff at 50. You also get a considerable number of mythics.
Again, that's if you don't consider any of the cosmetics to have dollar value. Personally I think this pass has some of the best mastery orb choices, and they did pretty great job on the alt-art for Kaldheim.
edit: Oh, don't forget the draft pass. I don't play enough limited to know what they're worth. You also get playsets of multiple cards (some rares) that don't drop in the kaldheim packs (Canopy Tactitician, Cleaving Reaper).
I've always made the gem cost back on the pass one way or another fwiw, so they are more or less "free", which makes them excellent value imo.
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
Draft token is good for one Player draft (Bo1 or Bo3), which is 10K gold/1.5k gems.
So far vs mono-W aggro, 2xred aggro, 1xYorion, 1xAdventures+haste dragon.
Then Yorion, 2xred aggro
fwiw I run into lots and lots of angels decks in low platinum, they're probably just not a meta enough deck to hang out in your matchmaking range.
Idk.
Mono-W has it good, with angels and clerics and lifegain and equipment
I saw a lot of the 2W 2/4 +2/2 lifegain angel, and the lose game angel.
It's more when there's a lot of big toughness creatures that the deck struggles.
But that's pure angels, not interspersed with one drop clerics and dogs and protection enchantment grain dudes.
Get the 1W 1/3 counter generating angel into the 2W angel and then there's problems
You can 100% buy it with gems.
Every previous one was available for gems so I presume after the current pass finishes yes
Still had to play through it though.
Hope he enjoyed his extra turns with only birds.
. . Consistent apparently meaning cause I kept all debuffs, I drew into creatures.
And his Valki saw the trashfire of a hand T2.
It’s me. I’m the Jenny
Mine went through a long stretch of bad matchups and getting stuck on 3 lands so I've reverted to my Eraser BW control deck. I still have Frightful Doom and love it but it's not a great call for me right now.
This is worst feeling. Play Valki on turn 2, see no creatures, begin to panic.
At level 80, you get a lot of gems/gold/mythic ICR/packs from the season pass and a draft token. Unless you already have complete complete collections of the previous sets and don't plan on drafting, it's the most efficient thing you can purchase with gems. You don't have to value the cosmetics at all for it to be worth it.
MTGA pretty much completely does away with truly sub-optimal deck play. The entry level of really playing is netdecking a tier 1 or 2 deck and learning to pilot it. There's gobs of room above it to actually be a better player, but it's still such a fraction of what would be available if more sub-optimal decks were played. You just throw out 80% of every set immediately to stratify to top level play.
Additionally, it's a friendly enough game in that the difference between being a f2p player and being a dolphin isn't that huge. F2P has most of the opportunity a dolphin has. But that means basically that both have access to 1 quick competitive deck, probably a monocolor deck, and then must save for a month or more for any additional deck. This makes being a f2p player or dolphin rather monotonous. You need to whale to really have access to a wider variety of decks, or have been playing long enough that you've got a stable of cards.
I contrast this with Runeterra, which is undeniably a less rich card game in that it's more random, and the complexities for skillful play are reduced. Buuuut. I also contrast it with not playing the monotony of the same few decks over and over, and having a win rate that's closer to 50%. Because the skill ceiling is so high in Magic, at some tiers I have a 75-100% win rate, and then I get higher and drop to a <25% win rate pretty clearly. In comparison, Runeterra aggressively tunes my games so that I have a really reliable win rate, as does my opponent.
And there's a core question there. Which is more fun? I'm pretty sure it's the game that offers more regular balance of win and defeat.
I dunno, this is a rambling thought but I'm trying to talk myself out of Magic I think. I love this game but I find it so monotonous so often, there's an illusion of more play than I really feel like I get out of it.
I have been 100% F2P since closed beta. The only thing stopping me from having multiple competitive decks is lack of interest in being competitive.
I think it's a good and underestimated point when talking about the challenge of getting a full collection, and I am someone who could post a similar wildcard screenshot and have multiple T1 Standard decks, Historic decks, and Brawl decks, plus some jank.
My big issue with games like Runeterra is that I just never want to play them for very long.
Well, not really.
It's play Valki, see no creatures, see three negative auras and lands, think 'I don't play creatures', play cultivate next turn.
Hearthstone is the worst game to compare against, I think. It's really not a shining star of much.
I'm sick of World Tree decks.
Maybe I'm just tired of Eldraine though. At least once it rotates out I might see decks that are more substantially different than the ones last year and the year before.
Currently Arena only caters to Spikes and WotC knows that a lot of players aren't Spikes. Arena just happens to be the only outlet to play Magic right now.
It's really unfortunate when a high-power set is released at the beginning of a format and power level plummets from there. Even when the format is overall good (which I would argue it is now) it's hard to stay excited about it over multiple sets of no change. I definitely went hard on Standard post-Omnath ban and then dropped off just as hard.
I'm not sure that they don't try to do this.
I sort of feel like I run into two kinds of decks: meta and 'mirror', where mirror decks share one or more cards with my deck.
This might be confirmation bias though.
Like the only truly odd-ball decks I play against typically share cards with my current deck.
ELO?
How do you adequately separate deck strength from player strength?
It is generally a very bad idea to implement any F2P rewards system where where optimal play pattern is intentionally losing. You really do not want your queue every day to be 20% people conceding t0 for their daily grind.
It's a good thing you can put some other requirements for it to qualify. And yes you could still game it to whatever degree depending on what those requirements were.
Though I'm struggling to think why I would care. 20% instant free wins in exchange for more people being willing to play off-meta in play queue...sounds rough.
2 Territorial Scythecat (ZNR) 213
6 Mountain (ANB) 114
9 Forest (ANB) 112
4 Waking the Trolls (KHM) 234
4 Brushfire Elemental (ZNR) 221
4 Gnottvold Slumbermound (KHM) 258
4 Smashing Success (KHM) 151
4 Kazandu Mammoth (ZNR) 189
4 Akoum Hellhound (ZNR) 133
3 Fabled Passage (M21) 246
3 Valakut Exploration (ZNR) 175
4 Cultivate (M21) 177
3 Migratory Greathorn (IKO) 165
4 Storm's Wrath (THB) 157
2 Crush the Weak (KHM) 128
I really don't think you have experience with heavily botted games if you think that a bunch of non-games that delay your ability to actually play is something that can be shrugged off.
And sure, you can put more restrictions on it to make it so people don't tank games or otherwise waste time for rewards. The most obvious and successful one is "make it so you have to win", because everybody has about a 50% win rate so it's very easy to set up.