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[Monster Train] Ive got fire in my caboose! Last Divinity dlc in beta!

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    NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    Yeah. It also plays harder into the "better get your combo pieces" side of things because you can be looking for ways to kill off your own guys effectively.
    MT was a good stab at something, and it's not like it isn't fun, but the design is very far from graceful and I think all the new content really demonstrated and leaned into that.

    Speaking of far from graceful, I wonder if the Last Divinity is still going to just be "lol no debuffs ever". Kind of cuts out a bunch of play styles and forces everyone into the "better have swole fast scaling units"

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    ... That's amazing. *Commence twitching and gibbering*

    I'm being my usual stubborn self right now and trying to clear the game on C25 with every combo. It's not going great!

    It's also frustrating me how much some stuff works - the random cards and relic at the start really encourage you to just start over immediately if you don't get a good mix. Which is silly!

    I really like this game when it's firing on all cylinders, but boy does it like to blow a gasket and throw a wheel repeatedly.

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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    NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    ... That's amazing. *Commence twitching and gibbering*

    I'm being my usual stubborn self right now and trying to clear the game on C25 with every combo. It's not going great!

    It's also frustrating me how much some stuff works - the random cards and relic at the start really encourage you to just start over immediately if you don't get a good mix. Which is silly!

    I really like this game when it's firing on all cylinders, but boy does it like to blow a gasket and throw a wheel repeatedly.

    I just play through regardless of what I get, worst case its a fast death to Talos, or slow death to Arcrus/Fel (or the floor right after). I'm also at the point of trying to finish C25 with all the combos; just finished all of the Hellhorned ones this weekend. Fucking Exile Hellhorned/Umbra took me 8 runs to finally clear Seraph, I had to stop trying to get Umbra working and just lean into Imps.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Yeah I keep faceplanting as hell horn/awoken. I'm probably drafting badly.

    I try and play through with what I've got too! It's more just the incentive is there, and it's another of those pain points to me

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    NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    Yeah I keep faceplanting as hell horn/awoken. I'm probably drafting badly.

    I try and play through with what I've got too! It's more just the incentive is there, and it's another of those pain points to me

    It could be, but it feels like far more than STS there's a lot more just unwinnable runs in MT, since there's just less options for drafting/pathing/etc. You either hit well or don't.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Naphtali wrote: »
    Yeah I keep faceplanting as hell horn/awoken. I'm probably drafting badly.

    I try and play through with what I've got too! It's more just the incentive is there, and it's another of those pain points to me

    It could be, but it feels like far more than STS there's a lot more just unwinnable runs in MT, since there's just less options for drafting/pathing/etc. You either hit well or don't.

    Yeah. That and most fights are elite fights, because the nature of the game means that turning on the hard mode is kinda vital. Simply to get more choices.

    I wish the game started out with a much smaller deck and then a draft mode - i feel like that would allow for some really strong gameplay. You could even pitch it as recruiting things for that one last ride.

    It's a very fun game, but the power curve? Decision points? Is all messed up.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Digging away at this like it's a loose tooth, and i think this screenshot is kinda emblatic of my issues with the game:
    DEA63AB699542EC2CCE6B9A50F7384A6FF0B2778

    (That's the get a sting every turn, generate morsels every turn, and two multistrike shadowsieges. With a pretty buff champ and dante sitting on the top floor twiddling their thumbs and a third shadowsiege with multistrike in my deck i didnt get to play)

    that is - i dont think my skill as a player had *anything* to do with me winning. I drafted a shadowsiege, duped it, slapped multistrike on them and drafted dante when he was offered and... yeah.

    That's about it. Otherwise i guess i played a lot of stings? Very engaging. Needless to say i won! Hell, i killed Fel before she could even enter the boss phase.

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    NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2021
    I mean yeah, that run you hit the nuts. I did Exile Awoken/Stygian last night and started Founding Seal (double incants) + Thornlord Wyldenten. Sometimes the game just gives you all the tools up front. Though, I didn't find multistrike for my Siren of the Sea until just before Seraph despite going to every Steel shop, so, y'know. It comes and goes sometimes, even on runs that should be 100% win from ring 1.

    edit: I think it's fine if some of Monster Train's difficulty is entirely slot machine based, it's just the nature of their design, and as long as the player is aware of that then it's okay. It's not great and certainly means I'm not going to play Monster Train as much as I've played and will continue to play something like Slay The Spire though.

    Naphtali on
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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    edited March 2021
    New Hellhorned unit is fine guys, nothing broken here!
    DC16D0B5F92B05CCDF15607046F23A9F960CD275

    (I infused a Steelworker into him for extra hilarity)

    Edit: Yep, everything's fine.
    FCF207F43D49909136F6B760F806285C670C7B36

    I killed the last divinity with a seven turn boss rush. I had 3 steelworker infused Imp fellows, so that floor gained 27 armor every turn, and those imp doods got 7 rage every turn. It was brutal in the best way.

    The Zombie Penguin on
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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    So.. i actually really like the dlc! I am, admtiedlly, playing on Cov 1 right now while i get a feel for it, but it's a lot more interesting than the base game. Mashing units together is good fun, and in general, you just get a lot more choice. I have some issues still (Starting with two artifacts is way better than starting with an artifact and 100 gold for instance), and the unit essences are... awkward.

    Like they're both really cool in the variety and also totally non-intuitive. to the point of you need that button to press. Less than graceful as @ArcticLancer said.

    The Wurmkin clan is interesting so far, they can do some really powerful stuff. Though i feel like the default champ is just way better tuned than the exile - you can do plenty of immediately powerful stuff between his Reap build or his +Str for shards build. Beetle on a crystal slug exile is... awkard, and it's starter card is hilariously weak compared to the default champ's starter card. It's basically a worse torch that might get up to +4 total at best.

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    BSoBBSoB Registered User regular
    I've been having a decent amount of fun with the DLC. But since I'm only playing the wormkin clan right now I can't comment on it totally yet.

    I think that the strats that can be the secret boss are too narrow right now. It feels like you can basically never build enough survivability to tank the waves, so you need haste. Then you need muilti-strike or sweep or trample(or a combo) to get through 5+ baddies and actually hit the boss.

    I'm getting used to the new covenant levels. I think I like them overall, but that top floor emberdrain throws me through a loop every time. Endless strats need to be careful of it, and my bottom floor strats are so used to tucking away train stewards on the top floor. I have to break that habit.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    The more i play with it, the more i like the Infuse units into each other. It really opens up the game in a good way - there's lots of units i used to be suspcious about taking (Molluscmage for instance) that i'm way happier to take as infusion fodder. Which is a good thing!

    The new rare for Waxen is really fun - kills all friendly units, then randomly reforms until that floor is full. Absolutely fantastic with something like Legion of Wax.

    Which, as an aside, Legion of Wax + Wax Snuffer remains the silliest thing. The last divinity may have died before he got to go relentless. Whoopsie!

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    BSoBBSoB Registered User regular
    -2 cost duplicate for the greater good with exile wormkin champ that brings back 2 consume cards a turn is officially the easiest win I've ever had. Bonus for super flavorful comment during the screencap.
    0blwb57uihtl.jpg

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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    Dipping my toes back into this, I really like how the alternate heroes let you mess with your starting deck, had some very fun runs with Lil' Fade Extinguish builds getting up to Cov10. The new clan seems neat though I've only done a few runs with them, I'm very skeptical of useful Reap actually is because it's pretty much a non-factor during Relentless phases.

    3cl1ps3 on
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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    It scales really hard and really fast. Pretty sure it triggers repeatedly during relentless, just like frostbite does?

    I'm mostly just tooling around on Cov1 still, thumping the divinity with every single combo to get a feel for things. That and having fun shoving units into each other

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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    It scales really hard and really fast. Pretty sure it triggers repeatedly during relentless, just like frostbite does?

    I'm mostly just tooling around on Cov1 still, thumping the divinity with every single combo to get a feel for things. That and having fun shoving units into each other

    Unfortunately no, I purposefully scuffed a run to test it last night. It triggers on the same step as Resolve, which is after combat has completely finished on that floor (so once/floor during Relentless). In practice even with a Reap heavy build it kind of felt like Worse Frostbite to me but I could have just not unlocked really good Reap payoff cards yet, I'm only level 4 on wormies.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    3clips3 wrote: »
    It scales really hard and really fast. Pretty sure it triggers repeatedly during relentless, just like frostbite does?

    I'm mostly just tooling around on Cov1 still, thumping the divinity with every single combo to get a feel for things. That and having fun shoving units into each other

    Unfortunately no, I purposefully scuffed a run to test it last night. It triggers on the same step as Resolve, which is after combat has completely finished on that floor (so once/floor during Relentless). In practice even with a Reap heavy build it kind of felt like Worse Frostbite to me but I could have just not unlocked really good Reap payoff cards yet, I'm only level 4 on wormies.

    Huh. The more you know!

    Most of worms good stuff seems to involve creating and chewing up crystals to buff things to the lower hells. I want to like their egg units but without the exile champ they're just too awkward for the pay off. I'm pretty suspicious of their etch stuff too, but I think you just need to use their exile champ for that

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    BSoBBSoB Registered User regular
    Etch can be real good, you can loop the one that lets you choose a consumed card to put on top of your deck + the one that puts 5 random consumed cards on top of your deck.Playing 6 consume cards every 2 turns can really pump the guy that gets +5 on consume.

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    chrono_travellerchrono_traveller Registered User regular
    I've been messing around with the first wyrmkin champ, and I have to say its been not going so great. I've won with wyrmkin/awoken, comboing off of +attack per gem buff and a whole bunch of multistrike. Then got through wyrmkin/stgyian with a kind of spell heavy deck consume combo deck that ignored most of the awoken units. Now, trying wyrmkin/hellhorned, but not quite able to get a combo together to make it through, in particular since I have this unhealthy obsession with multistrike and the +attack on strike dude. However, they are both 3 pip units, which make it virtually impossible to fit on the same row till after the first big boss, and even then, just barely unless you get some oddball special events.

    I had a similar problem with the alternate awoken champ. Those 3 pip champs just take up too much space for my usual playstyle. It doesn't help that outside of the eggs and bog fly, wyrmkin has several 3 pip units, or 2 cost 2 pip units, which makes unit placement pretty awkward.

    The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
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    BSoBBSoB Registered User regular
    I'm not one to usually use the stalwart snack line. But when you start with 2 steel enhancers, I figured I might as well try it.
    Then I figured out that cultivate turns every heal in your deck into a buff, and from there we get.

    ppuzclg6734b.jpg

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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Man, the UI in this game can get really busy. :D

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    BSoBBSoB Registered User regular
    Yeah, with the divinity is cramming 6 guys on a floor each with 3 buffs or abilities, it can be really hard to read.

    That screen shot is me hovering over the shattered shell so people can see the Voltron I'd assembled.

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    BSoBBSoB Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    I have a new most broken run ever. All of the new rare units are game winners, and apex imp is no exception. But, when you get to combo double incants, incant armor 2, and infuse an armor totem, all while having railhammer,

    You get 32 armor and rage every time you cast a spell.

    lhzh9a6b7jjs.jpg

    Yes, there are infact, 7 waves remaining.

    BSoB on
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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Yeah Apex imps are pretty silly and also awesome. In general I think the dlc was exactly the shot in the arm this game needed - it's really helped give it a much more clear identity

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    destroyah87destroyah87 They/Them Preferred: She/Her - Please UseRegistered User regular
    edited April 2021
    Welp, got a Divinity kill on my second run with Wurmkin.

    This was a fun deck.
    C65A5803476B00301C28FDBF054D4429CF6B3B5F

    Honestly, getting a new event and the Immortality Potion was the thing that did it. Duplicating a Shardsoul Carver with Quick and Multistrike 1 and +3 per Charged Echo after was just gravy.
    Soul Siphon + Kinhost Carapace is a mean combo, if one can play them in that order.

    Edit: I dropped down to Cov 15, since I was playing fresh Wurmkin. So that did make the win easier.

    destroyah87 on
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    NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    1f13ekrz49ft.png

    turns out reap's pretty good

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    BSoBBSoB Registered User regular
    edited May 2021
    Double incant, eel Gorgon? That sounds like its winning.
    Infused with Alpha fiend? OH MY
    vj2mox6pijc0.jpg
    The Dynamic Duo managed to kill the Divinity before prince could even die. Lucky him. such a useless champ in the expac.

    BSoB on
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    BSoBBSoB Registered User regular
    PSA for anyone who has never tried.

    If you don't take the blacksmith's hammer card from the event (the hits twice, adds space AoE), You are offered a +10,-space unit upgrade. It was a long time before I turned down that hammer, because it's so good. The unit buff can be even better because you can actually make good use of the extra space.

    Like so
    kahbp2mpvhiw.jpg
    3 multi striking enforcers makes for a lot of rage real fast.

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    NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrGRzHjK-lU

    Patch Notes

    Some weird patch changes here. I'm shocked we didn't see Prince or Tethys changes.

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    BSoBBSoB Registered User regular
    edited May 2021
    None of the new auto pick rares got nerfed. But the trancendimp nerf has been a long time coming.

    BSoB on
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    BSoBBSoB Registered User regular
    I have done the thing and can go back to random/random.
    bg5k2n2nh7ez.jpg
    I think at the end of the day Solgard is my least favorite champ to try and get a win with, followed by penumbra.

    For solgard, He's so incant focused and his starter makes it hard to incant a ton. It just makes it very frustrating to get anything going. Also, winning with dregs or queen's implings as your other starter basically means just throwing him away.

    Penumbra because only the +space path is really worth anything and the thing that it's worth is not much. The trample path forces you to take space, and then you just end up with a unit that dies super fast and can't really kill anything even if you keep it alive. And the gorge path can make a very powerful unit, but it needs trample or 2-3 units are gonna walk by every round. So you have to pray to see the trample book, or dip gorge 2 trample 1, which loses you a space and a ton of scaling.

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    NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    edited May 2021
    I've been trying to win at least with every wymrkin/clan combo, and oh my god I've lost eight + on Wymrkin/Hellhorned C25. I'm kind of at my wits end. I had one Apex Imp hard pivot run almost win, but I had to play The Divinity in a really stupid way to win and just didn't want to replay it to see if it actually won.

    Seem like a Corrupter III, with a multistrike unit infused with Bog Egg should just win? Maybe if I can even somehow get Glareminder for sweep.

    edit of course after I complain, the game just gives me the nuts basically
    monstertrain://runresult/eacd8b50-4f97-40d6-8131-c8bd13388be5

    j8lw18wd2n58.jpg

    One Horned Warrior has steelworker, endless welder has fledgling imp infused. Grrrd's Goad was from starter divine boons. Like, other than taking cost downs and every magic shop screwing me with not giving me holdover, this run just basically played itself. This game, I swear.

    Naphtali on
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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    I haven't played Monster Train since June/July of last year. I know patches have dropped with new content. Anything else different about the game in terms of mechanics?

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    BSoBBSoB Registered User regular
    edited May 2021
    The dlc adds a new layer with the shards mechanic. Shards make fights harder, but you get bonuses for picking them up. If you kill Saraph with 100 or more shards, you fight an extra final boss.

    Also there is a whole new clan. With it's own mechanics.

    BSoB on
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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Honestly the best mechanic is you can take one unit and shove it inside another unit, conferring some sort of bonus. Some of them are really cool/flavourful, and it really opens up picking units - because you're quite happy to take a unit just to get it's essence now.

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    NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    There's plenty of new content to play there without the paid DLC if you haven't tried the Exiled Champions for each clan.

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    The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    I haven't picked up the DLC yet and only very briefly played with the Exiles before coming back now, having fun with the game again. Only won one run so far (I did immediately jump back into Cov 20, so up to 21 now).

    But BOY do I hate that Seraph that attacks while flying. Like enough that I might consider rerolling at the start every time I see it. I'm not crazy and that's like infinitely more difficult than the other versions, right? Like it's possible to win without infinite stats (at least at this Cov level) against the others, but a lot of the time I just do not have frontlines that can stand up to an extra 20-40 damage per turn.

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
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    NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2021
    I haven't picked up the DLC yet and only very briefly played with the Exiles before coming back now, having fun with the game again. Only won one run so far (I did immediately jump back into Cov 20, so up to 21 now).

    But BOY do I hate that Seraph that attacks while flying. Like enough that I might consider rerolling at the start every time I see it. I'm not crazy and that's like infinitely more difficult than the other versions, right? Like it's possible to win without infinite stats (at least at this Cov level) against the others, but a lot of the time I just do not have frontlines that can stand up to an extra 20-40 damage per turn.

    Patient Seraph can be pretty annoying but every clan usually has something you can pick up in a run to help. Endless Imps/Tombs to absorb melee weakness/trump block, silence tomb for stygian, Awoken Healing, Melting also has Resin Removal to clear melee weakness, there's daze/sap cards you can holdover & spam on Patient so they never even attack, Umbra... well Umbra's in the worst spot right now of all the clans. It's important to consider the Seraph you're hitting at the start of the run and what lines your clan combo has, and make sure you can answer them in some way (sap & scaling for sap seraph, scaling if you're going a buff line for chase seraph, spells to consume and ways to deal with curses slowing your draw for dilligent, etc.)

    edit: Umbra has Damage Shield (and with Primordium, Superfood line to pass damage shield to the unit it's feeding). That's a solid line, even picking up a Grovel or Gem Trove on non morsel lines to help deal with Patient.

    Naphtali on
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    The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    It's very funny how the good Umbra carry units (Crucible Collector/Warden) cost 1 but the bad ones (Construct, Shadoweater, Overgorger) cost 2 even though they'd be worse even if they only costed 1 so they're completely unplayable.

    And you can't ever get Little Fade to level three in Little Icarus or the burnout path because for some reason only one path gives Endless when all three absolutely require it to function.

    Like, getting some things wrong with the design is fine, but these mistakes feel so obvious I don't understand how they're still in the game after this many updates.

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
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    NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2021
    In the DLC at least, Alloyed Construct is probably to strongest Umbra carry outside of Morsel Made, esp if you self-infuse it to get the extra multistrike and double its fuel gain. Crucible boys are terrible into the Divinity due to low HP and low scaling and you really have to high roll to make them work.

    Also, Little Fade is broken as fucking hell. You don't really need Endless with reform cards, and there's always Intrinsic for an Endless tome if you see it if you really want it. Firelight makes characters scale out of control with burn out and stats (Paraffin Enforcer shines with this) and with the right lines Little Icarus melts everything (Welder Helpers, etc).

    Honorable mentions to Shadoweater + Alpha Fiend or Shadoweater + Paraffin Enforcer (and Superfood Primordium), as on-hit strike effects proc off of its gorge ability for extra hits and with the right build it can scale like crazy. Both those lines require very, very high rolls though.

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