Honestly I think DS9's entire idea to address the issue was silly. Both for Bashir's character and for the setting in general. It left more weird questions hanging then it resolved.
It was such a bad beat that Siddig apparently decided to mope his character through the rest of the series as a result.
+1
Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
In a perfect world the TNG movies are never canon.
+5
Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Was SNL always this unfunny? Whoever wrote that skit seems to have a grudge against comedy itself. The laugh track wasn't even enjoying it.
It can be funny sometimes! A couple of the Black Jeopardy skits are gold. They also still do some great commercial parodies. It's just not a show where I want to sit through the whole thing anymore, SNL is definitely not funny throughout.
This skit feels like it was made by a middle-age person complaining about Me Too or something. It's weird.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
Honestly I think DS9's entire idea to address the issue was silly. Both for Bashir's character and for the setting in general. It left more weird questions hanging then it resolved.
It was such a bad beat that Siddig apparently decided to mope his character through the rest of the series as a result.
I maintain that the episode where they brought it up was actually a really good one, and Siddig did some great acting in it.
I haven't gotten to any episodes where it gets brought up again yet, though.
It was DS9 that decided to make this a whole thing and I agree, it was a mistake and it's not really clear what end it served. I was always perfectly happy thinking that Star Trek had lots of cyborgs and people who'd had genetic alterations and whatnot - just offscreen, the way we know there are cat aliens but we'll only ever see them in live-action in the background of movie shots because realistic cat aliens aren't feasible on a TV budget.
Or the Enterprise's dolphin crew members. We live in the high-budget future of television, CBS! Give me my onscreen dolphin navigators and xenolinguists!
Honestly I think DS9's entire idea to address the issue was silly. Both for Bashir's character and for the setting in general. It left more weird questions hanging then it resolved.
It was such a bad beat that Siddig apparently decided to mope his character through the rest of the series as a result.
I maintain that the episode where they brought it up was actually a really good one, and Siddig did some great acting in it.
I haven't gotten to any episodes where it gets brought up again yet, though.
It was a good episode. And Siddig apparently liked the change because he felt it gave his character something. The writers honestly seemed to have no idea what to do with Bashir 90% of the time.
I just don't like the overall implications for the character or the universe. I think it's poorly thought out and basically leads to them shoving those Spock-esque "quote an exact percentage in a situation that makes no sense to sound smart" into his mouth a bunch.
+4
JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
It was DS9 that decided to make this a whole thing and I agree, it was a mistake and it's not really clear what end it served. I was always perfectly happy thinking that Star Trek had lots of cyborgs and people who'd had genetic alterations and whatnot - just offscreen, the way we know there are cat aliens but we'll only ever see them in live-action in the background of movie shots because realistic cat aliens aren't feasible on a TV budget.
Or the Enterprise's dolphin crew members. We live in the high-budget future of television, CBS! Give me my onscreen dolphin navigators and xenolinguists!
yessssss I will fight the lonely crusade for main character whales until the day I die
Honestly I think DS9's entire idea to address the issue was silly. Both for Bashir's character and for the setting in general. It left more weird questions hanging then it resolved.
It was such a bad beat that Siddig apparently decided to mope his character through the rest of the series as a result.
I maintain that the episode where they brought it up was actually a really good one, and Siddig did some great acting in it.
I haven't gotten to any episodes where it gets brought up again yet, though.
It was a good episode. And Siddig apparently liked the change because he felt it gave his character something. The writers honestly seemed to have no idea what to do with Bashir 90% of the time.
I just don't like the overall implications for the character or the universe. I think it's poorly thought out and basically leads to them shoving those Spock-esque "quote an exact percentage in a situation that makes no sense to sound smart" into his mouth a bunch.
Wait...I was under the impression Siddig hated that backstory change?
Not always. Just for the past 20 or 30 years.
Everyone thinks SNL is terrible except for the short span of their time watching it when they were teenagers -then that's the golden era. Frankly I think up until before the pandemic hit, SNL was arguably on a 5+ year streak of greatness. Pandemic and post pandemic something has really been off in the live sketches.
I will say that space sketch is beyond bloated with a bunch of people who don't need to be there, and the only reason it's funny is because Mikey Day completely sells his shrill overreactions. But its at least not quite as bad as this one.
I love the concept of secret super solider Julian Bashir, but it should've been there from the beginning. Bashir hiding his secret, and eventually trusting the crew with it, is a much better character arc than the Creep Factor thing they did for 3 seasons.
There's good synergy with Odo once the Founders come on the stage, as both lives were defined by what their parents wanted. Plus, the Vorta and Jem'Hadar make better (or, at least, less cliche) dark mirrors of unrestrained eugenicism than Khan.
What was so creepy about Weyoun was that in his every being he completely believed the Founders where gods. None of his various clones ever questions that the Founders are their gods, only one that believes that Odo is the correct good over the Female changeling.
He is totally loyal, never questioning their right to rule or their orders.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
When I rewatched DS9 recently, I felt like there were many moments that were hinting at Bashir's secret. He'd become strangely competent, but only when nobody else was watching, or when people would die otherwise. Like there's a scene where he beats up 4-5 people trying to save Dax. Or going all special agent in the tubes while the station was being invaded.
I guess it's all just a coincidence if they didn't have that idea until the season it appeared, though.
As far as I've read they didn't have the idea till literally the episode where they revealed it. I don't even think they told the actor before hand. He just got the script one day and went "Wait, what?".
What was so creepy about Weyoun was that in his every being he completely believed the Founders where gods. None of his various clones ever questions that the Founders are their gods, only one that believes that Odo is the correct good over the Female changeling.
He is totally loyal, never questioning their right to rule or their orders.
It's made weirder because it doesn't seem to be entirely the Founders' programming - in Hippocratic Oath the Jem'hadar openly doubt the Founders are gods (or possibly even real). And while the Vorta who have direct contact with the Founders are going to have some level of selection towards obedience involved, we don't see other Vorta going all "The Founders are wise in all things," and prostrating themselves in awe at their mere existence.
I believe that they needed the Jem'hadar to be able to function more independently to be good in combat, so they used drugs to keep them in line, rather than brainwashing.
Nothing wrong with coming up with something after the fact that happens to fit what happened before.
There isn't. It's just that for me as a viewer his character arc those first couple of seasons showed this cocky as shit, over sexed doc, slumming out on the frontier simply because he could. But who also showed real promise and command ability, and slowly that came out more and more as he got put in his place multiple times and befriended the crew. And then the show goes all, "oh turns out he's a genetic super human and he was always secretly great." I felt like it really cheapened the character and threw all of his accomplishments under an unflattering light.
As an example, the fact he can so effortlessly beat Miles at squash is a really fun engaging story when he's just a normal dude. It becomes really boring and kind of fucked up when he's a genetic super human.
Nothing wrong with coming up with something after the fact that happens to fit what happened before.
It only fits a bit though. Like, there's literally an entire episode inside his head and yet none of this comes up. Even without knowing how it happened, just watching the show it's got a real ass-pull feel to it.
There are some Trek retcons that work perfectly,* but Super Soldier Bashir isn’t one of them. I’d like to see what they’d do with it in a DS9 remake, however unlikely that may be.
*
I’m specifically thinking of:
1) The Undiscovered Country gains a new layer when you imagine that Section 31 destroyed Praxis and the Starfleet conspirators are involved.
2) Picard’s early standoff-ish attitude towards the crew is a result of losing so many people on the Stargazer, some of whom he’d served with for 20 years.
+5
HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
There are some Trek retcons that work perfectly,* but Super Soldier Bashir isn’t one of them. I’d like to see what they’d do with it in a DS9 remake, however unlikely that may be.
*
I’m specifically thinking of:
1) The Undiscovered Country gains a new layer when you imagine that Section 31 destroyed Praxis and the Starfleet conspirators are involved.
2) Picard’s early standoff-ish attitude towards the crew is a result of losing so many people on the Stargazer, some of whom he’d served with for 20 years.
JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
TNG kind of forgot about Jack Crusher and the Stargazer after S2, which was a shame, because I thought that was an interesting element of Picard's character. Also, he was captain of that ship for 20 years, you'd think it would loom larger in his mind just in general, even if it wasn't a source of angst.
TNG kind of forgot about Jack Crusher and the Stargazer after S2, which was a shame, because I thought that was an interesting element of Picard's character. Also, he was captain of that ship for 20 years, you'd think it would loom larger in his mind just in general, even if it wasn't a source of angst.
Man, I was somehow unaware of that detail about the Stargazer. My professional career spans a bit over twenty years, though obviously not all with the same group of people or overarching concerns because capitalism, but the thought of having, but then losing, one colleague who had been with me over that whole arc, much less having a whole “work family” lost to a mass casualty event...
23rd/24th century therapy must be really really fucking good for Picard to not just be locked up in a room at the vineyard with some finger paints and soothing ambient music. Lordt.
Yeah, you start to drift off and then Faith of the Heart kicks in and it's like OH GOD SKIP INTRO.
My gf isn't familiar with Trek but the Enterprise theme came up in conversation so I had her watch the big Trek show intros and even Galaxy Quest and The Orville's. When I finally let Enterprise's opening rip her expression was one of sheer disgust with an audible WHY.
I tried the theme song with "Out of the Silent Planet" by Iron Maiden
It was good right up until the Enterprise went to warp, while Bruce Dickinson sang,
"The punishment is death to all who live."
Enterprise actually had a pretty good theme song, they just relegated it to the closing credits where the autoskip on most streaming services bypass it.
Edit: also, there's evidence the opening sequence was made for the closing theme or some version of it. Exact same length as the long version titled Archer's Theme and well matched, whereas Faith of the Heart had to be edited and tweaked all over to fit.
So I've been craving a new book to read, and people in this thread keep bringing up The Culture.
I've read Consider Phlebas, and developed a dislike for the Culture, in the sense that I agree with that book's protagonist in his view that Culture citizens are just pets for the AIs. It turned me off from reading more books in the series, until now.
So I've been craving a new book to read, and people in this thread keep bringing up The Culture.
I've read Consider Phlebas, and developed a dislike for the Culture, in the sense that I agree with that book's protagonist in his view that Culture citizens are just pets for the AIs. It turned me off from reading more books in the series, until now.
So I've been craving a new book to read, and people in this thread keep bringing up The Culture.
I've read Consider Phlebas, and developed a dislike for the Culture, in the sense that I agree with that book's protagonist in his view that Culture citizens are just pets for the AIs. It turned me off from reading more books in the series, until now.
So anyway, which one should I go to next?
What that issue, I would say Player of Game, Use of Weapons, or Excession.
0
daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
So I've been craving a new book to read, and people in this thread keep bringing up The Culture.
I've read Consider Phlebas, and developed a dislike for the Culture, in the sense that I agree with that book's protagonist in his view that Culture citizens are just pets for the AIs. It turned me off from reading more books in the series, until now.
So anyway, which one should I go to next?
Matter? That's pretty good as far as having Culture people do things independent of the Minds.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
So I've been craving a new book to read, and people in this thread keep bringing up The Culture.
I've read Consider Phlebas, and developed a dislike for the Culture, in the sense that I agree with that book's protagonist in his view that Culture citizens are just pets for the AIs. It turned me off from reading more books in the series, until now.
So anyway, which one should I go to next?
What that issue, I would say Player of Game, Use of Weapons, or Excession.
i don't think player of games will change your mind, its basically another 'person was setup by the AIs'. If you can enjoy the world building and the ride along then sure, but i don't think that particular book will change an opinion. Use of Weapons maybe...
TNG kind of forgot about Jack Crusher and the Stargazer after S2, which was a shame, because I thought that was an interesting element of Picard's character. Also, he was captain of that ship for 20 years, you'd think it would loom larger in his mind just in general, even if it wasn't a source of angst.
well they do, but they only brought it up for Wesley episodes or Picard/Beverly will-they-won't-they episodes and those were so awkward that they just took all the writer notes and locked them up in the big box of 'awkward things we don't talk about any more'.
DanHibiki on
0
That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
So I've been craving a new book to read, and people in this thread keep bringing up The Culture.
I've read Consider Phlebas, and developed a dislike for the Culture, in the sense that I agree with that book's protagonist in his view that Culture citizens are just pets for the AIs. It turned me off from reading more books in the series, until now.
So anyway, which one should I go to next?
What that issue, I would say Player of Game, Use of Weapons, or Excession.
i don't think player of games will change your mind, its basically another 'person was setup by the AIs'. If you can enjoy the world building and the ride along then sure, but i don't think that particular book will change an opinion. Use of Weapons maybe...
I disagree. Player of Games is a munch better book in general. It's far better focused and fleshed out. I get that the protag in Phlebas was supposed to be an unlikable tosser and the armored aliens were supposed to be the bad guys but still. I didn't enjoy the main character's journey. For a first book it didn't do much to introduce The Culture other than to paint them as a nebous threat and inform us that it's a race of machines and their human pets. The culture chick Balveda was a far more interesting character than a literal shapeshifter with secret acid breath. The main set pieces (the jungle pyramid raid, the cruise ship raid, the island, and finally the game of damage before the planet is blown up) were diversion and didn't really have any effect on the overarching plot of capturing The Culture mind.
On the other hand, Player of Games has a much more focused plot and takes great care to make the major set pieces (the various games Gurgeh plays) actually part of the overall plot of the story. The final set piece is the denouement of the book's entire storyline. The Culture actually gets fleshed out and you start to understand how the relationship between people and the minds work. PoG even managed to do a gross out scene and tie it directly into the main storyline. If you skip that chapter a lot of context is lost. On the other hand you could skip most of the pirate adventure in Phlebas and basically no context for the main story is lost.
Using this theme song just makes me want there to be a sci fi that's explicitly about Polynesian space farers who, after Earth became increasingly uninhabitable due to Global warming, were the only group able to get their shit together enough to start colonizing other planets.
So I've been craving a new book to read, and people in this thread keep bringing up The Culture.
I've read Consider Phlebas, and developed a dislike for the Culture, in the sense that I agree with that book's protagonist in his view that Culture citizens are just pets for the AIs. It turned me off from reading more books in the series, until now.
So anyway, which one should I go to next?
What that issue, I would say Player of Game, Use of Weapons, or Excession.
i don't think player of games will change your mind, its basically another 'person was setup by the AIs'. If you can enjoy the world building and the ride along then sure, but i don't think that particular book will change an opinion. Use of Weapons maybe...
I disagree. Player of Games is a munch better book in general. It's far better focused and fleshed out. I get that the protag in Phlebas was supposed to be an unlikable tosser and the armored aliens were supposed to be the bad guys but still. I didn't enjoy the main character's journey. For a first book it didn't do much to introduce The Culture other than to paint them as a nebous threat and inform us that it's a race of machines and their human pets. The culture chick Balveda was a far more interesting character than a literal shapeshifter with secret acid breath. The main set pieces (the jungle pyramid raid, the cruise ship raid, the island, and finally the game of damage before the planet is blown up) were diversion and didn't really have any effect on the overarching plot of capturing The Culture mind.
On the other hand, Player of Games has a much more focused plot and takes great care to make the major set pieces (the various games Gurgeh plays) actually part of the overall plot of the story. The final set piece is the denouement of the book's entire storyline. The Culture actually gets fleshed out and you start to understand how the relationship between people and the minds work. PoG even managed to do a gross out scene and tie it directly into the main storyline. If you skip that chapter a lot of context is lost. On the other hand you could skip most of the pirate adventure in Phlebas and basically no context for the main story is lost.
Player of Games is a fantastic stand-alone book. I've listened to audiobooks of Surface Detail and enjoyed it, but I actually couldn't get into Use of Weapons at all. I checked where I was in the audiobook and it looks like I got half way through? I don't remember any of it. I guess I should try again. The thing is, Player of Games is one I regularly re-listen to and get more out of every time. It's definitely up there on my list of favorite books.
Cambiata on
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
So I've been craving a new book to read, and people in this thread keep bringing up The Culture.
I've read Consider Phlebas, and developed a dislike for the Culture, in the sense that I agree with that book's protagonist in his view that Culture citizens are just pets for the AIs. It turned me off from reading more books in the series, until now.
So anyway, which one should I go to next?
This is pretty much what I meant in my last post about it being a weird choice to have the introduction to the culture be from the perspective of a guy with strong philosophical objections to it. He's also not a citizen of the culture (and IIRC never was) so a lot of his beef with it comes from assumptions of how it actually works. There's a debate to be had there for sure but just be aware that Conider Phlebas does not give you enough information to really know one way or the other. The second book will give you some more rounded information, though may not change your conclusion.
It's more complicated a question than it would first appear and figuring it out for yourself is a lot of the fun of the culture books (at least the ones I've read so far) IMO.
+2
That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
edited April 2021
The thing I like the most about The Culture series is the ship names. I hope real spaceships start getting cool interesting names. In 300 years I want someone to be flying around in a ship named "Just Read The Instructions" or "Limiting Factor"
Posts
It was such a bad beat that Siddig apparently decided to mope his character through the rest of the series as a result.
It can be funny sometimes! A couple of the Black Jeopardy skits are gold. They also still do some great commercial parodies. It's just not a show where I want to sit through the whole thing anymore, SNL is definitely not funny throughout.
This skit feels like it was made by a middle-age person complaining about Me Too or something. It's weird.
I maintain that the episode where they brought it up was actually a really good one, and Siddig did some great acting in it.
I haven't gotten to any episodes where it gets brought up again yet, though.
Not always. Just for the past 20 or 30 years.
Or the Enterprise's dolphin crew members. We live in the high-budget future of television, CBS! Give me my onscreen dolphin navigators and xenolinguists!
It was a good episode. And Siddig apparently liked the change because he felt it gave his character something. The writers honestly seemed to have no idea what to do with Bashir 90% of the time.
I just don't like the overall implications for the character or the universe. I think it's poorly thought out and basically leads to them shoving those Spock-esque "quote an exact percentage in a situation that makes no sense to sound smart" into his mouth a bunch.
yessssss I will fight the lonely crusade for main character whales until the day I die
Wait...I was under the impression Siddig hated that backstory change?
Everyone thinks SNL is terrible except for the short span of their time watching it when they were teenagers -then that's the golden era. Frankly I think up until before the pandemic hit, SNL was arguably on a 5+ year streak of greatness. Pandemic and post pandemic something has really been off in the live sketches.
I will say that space sketch is beyond bloated with a bunch of people who don't need to be there, and the only reason it's funny is because Mikey Day completely sells his shrill overreactions. But its at least not quite as bad as this one.
There's good synergy with Odo once the Founders come on the stage, as both lives were defined by what their parents wanted. Plus, the Vorta and Jem'Hadar make better (or, at least, less cliche) dark mirrors of unrestrained eugenicism than Khan.
He is totally loyal, never questioning their right to rule or their orders.
I guess it's all just a coincidence if they didn't have that idea until the season it appeared, though.
It's made weirder because it doesn't seem to be entirely the Founders' programming - in Hippocratic Oath the Jem'hadar openly doubt the Founders are gods (or possibly even real). And while the Vorta who have direct contact with the Founders are going to have some level of selection towards obedience involved, we don't see other Vorta going all "The Founders are wise in all things," and prostrating themselves in awe at their mere existence.
There isn't. It's just that for me as a viewer his character arc those first couple of seasons showed this cocky as shit, over sexed doc, slumming out on the frontier simply because he could. But who also showed real promise and command ability, and slowly that came out more and more as he got put in his place multiple times and befriended the crew. And then the show goes all, "oh turns out he's a genetic super human and he was always secretly great." I felt like it really cheapened the character and threw all of his accomplishments under an unflattering light.
As an example, the fact he can so effortlessly beat Miles at squash is a really fun engaging story when he's just a normal dude. It becomes really boring and kind of fucked up when he's a genetic super human.
It only fits a bit though. Like, there's literally an entire episode inside his head and yet none of this comes up. Even without knowing how it happened, just watching the show it's got a real ass-pull feel to it.
*
1) The Undiscovered Country gains a new layer when you imagine that Section 31 destroyed Praxis and the Starfleet conspirators are involved.
2) Picard’s early standoff-ish attitude towards the crew is a result of losing so many people on the Stargazer, some of whom he’d served with for 20 years.
for point #2 that has been mined to get effect in the novels already actually - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/422905.The_Buried_Age
Man, I was somehow unaware of that detail about the Stargazer. My professional career spans a bit over twenty years, though obviously not all with the same group of people or overarching concerns because capitalism, but the thought of having, but then losing, one colleague who had been with me over that whole arc, much less having a whole “work family” lost to a mass casualty event...
23rd/24th century therapy must be really really fucking good for Picard to not just be locked up in a room at the vineyard with some finger paints and soothing ambient music. Lordt.
Your Ad Here! Reasonable Rates!
My gf isn't familiar with Trek but the Enterprise theme came up in conversation so I had her watch the big Trek show intros and even Galaxy Quest and The Orville's. When I finally let Enterprise's opening rip her expression was one of sheer disgust with an audible WHY.
According to interviews at the time, there existed an official test cut synched to a U2 song, but licensing was too expensive.
It fits a whole fuckload of sitcom themes songs, though.
Enterprise actually had a pretty good theme song, they just relegated it to the closing credits where the autoskip on most streaming services bypass it.
Edit: also, there's evidence the opening sequence was made for the closing theme or some version of it. Exact same length as the long version titled Archer's Theme and well matched, whereas Faith of the Heart had to be edited and tweaked all over to fit.
This is what we could have had:
I've read Consider Phlebas, and developed a dislike for the Culture, in the sense that I agree with that book's protagonist in his view that Culture citizens are just pets for the AIs. It turned me off from reading more books in the series, until now.
So anyway, which one should I go to next?
Player of Games, or Use of Weapons.
Goodreads
SF&F Reviews blog
What that issue, I would say Player of Game, Use of Weapons, or Excession.
Matter? That's pretty good as far as having Culture people do things independent of the Minds.
i don't think player of games will change your mind, its basically another 'person was setup by the AIs'. If you can enjoy the world building and the ride along then sure, but i don't think that particular book will change an opinion. Use of Weapons maybe...
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
GoG: https://www.gog.com/u/pailryder
well they do, but they only brought it up for Wesley episodes or Picard/Beverly will-they-won't-they episodes and those were so awkward that they just took all the writer notes and locked them up in the big box of 'awkward things we don't talk about any more'.
I disagree. Player of Games is a munch better book in general. It's far better focused and fleshed out. I get that the protag in Phlebas was supposed to be an unlikable tosser and the armored aliens were supposed to be the bad guys but still. I didn't enjoy the main character's journey. For a first book it didn't do much to introduce The Culture other than to paint them as a nebous threat and inform us that it's a race of machines and their human pets. The culture chick Balveda was a far more interesting character than a literal shapeshifter with secret acid breath. The main set pieces (the jungle pyramid raid, the cruise ship raid, the island, and finally the game of damage before the planet is blown up) were diversion and didn't really have any effect on the overarching plot of capturing The Culture mind.
On the other hand, Player of Games has a much more focused plot and takes great care to make the major set pieces (the various games Gurgeh plays) actually part of the overall plot of the story. The final set piece is the denouement of the book's entire storyline. The Culture actually gets fleshed out and you start to understand how the relationship between people and the minds work. PoG even managed to do a gross out scene and tie it directly into the main storyline. If you skip that chapter a lot of context is lost. On the other hand you could skip most of the pirate adventure in Phlebas and basically no context for the main story is lost.
Using this theme song just makes me want there to be a sci fi that's explicitly about Polynesian space farers who, after Earth became increasingly uninhabitable due to Global warming, were the only group able to get their shit together enough to start colonizing other planets.
Player of Games is a fantastic stand-alone book. I've listened to audiobooks of Surface Detail and enjoyed it, but I actually couldn't get into Use of Weapons at all. I checked where I was in the audiobook and it looks like I got half way through? I don't remember any of it. I guess I should try again. The thing is, Player of Games is one I regularly re-listen to and get more out of every time. It's definitely up there on my list of favorite books.
This is pretty much what I meant in my last post about it being a weird choice to have the introduction to the culture be from the perspective of a guy with strong philosophical objections to it. He's also not a citizen of the culture (and IIRC never was) so a lot of his beef with it comes from assumptions of how it actually works. There's a debate to be had there for sure but just be aware that Conider Phlebas does not give you enough information to really know one way or the other. The second book will give you some more rounded information, though may not change your conclusion.
It's more complicated a question than it would first appear and figuring it out for yourself is a lot of the fun of the culture books (at least the ones I've read so far) IMO.