zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
Discovery plus just informed me that there is now a show called Chopped 420 with Ron Funches as a host. It's like chopped only with canibus. Filmed in Denver, with judges Laganja Estraja and Tacarra Williams and a rotating chef.
Sometimes the future gives me something I'm really interested in.
I actually did drunk driving sociology research as a side gig in college for a few years and we used passive breathalyzers to interview people we pulled over regarding drunk driving- yeah super hard to write an IRB approval for this kind of stuff but it's not impossible.
The amount of people drunk driving is staggering and most certainly underestimated. Another team was responsible for going to all reported accident sites as fast as possible. Again, frequently high passive readings and they even did non court admissible blood draws which show that a loooot of accidents have alcohol involved drivers even if no police don't force tests.
I actually did drunk driving sociology research as a side gig in college for a few years and we used passive breathalyzers to interview people we pulled over regarding drunk driving- yeah super hard to write an IRB approval for this kind of stuff but it's not impossible.
The amount of people drunk driving is staggering and most certainly underestimated. Another team was responsible for going to all reported accident sites as fast as possible. Again, frequently high passive readings and they even did non court admissible blood draws which show that a loooot of accidents have alcohol involved drivers even if no police don't force tests.
Sometimes I’m a passenger in a car and looking around and I see people just, using their phones. Not glancing at a text, not quickly typing in a new address to google maps (not denying those are, on their own, bad). But straight up, eyes on phone screen without glancing up for 3+ ‘One Mississippi, two…’ seconds
How do we find these people and cut off their feet
I do about 3 standard drinks per week average, though there have been weeks where it was more like 8 and I usually start feeling like shit. Not a real hangover but like, general digestive distress and inflammation.
Parties friday and saturday plus beer with dinner 2 or 3 other days and it really starts to catch up with me.
I have no idea how the average person does 14+
Part of it is going to be huge variations in how much alcohol is in a drink.
if my circle of friends is any indication, it's two beers a night, every night of the week, sometimes more if it's been a "long day"
A "standard drink" is 0.6 fl ounces of pure alcohol, which is a 12 ounce can of 5% ABV beer. Pretty typical. A lot of craft beers can go higher; 6% is pretty common. IPAs can go up to 8%. And then they're sometimes marketed in 18 ounce cans.
Sometimes I drink Arrogant Bastard ale - 7.2% ABV, sold in 22 ounce bottles. That's 2.5 standard drinks.
My favorite cocktail is the Sazerac, which is basically "oops, all liquor!" One sazerac can easily be 2 standard drinks, and they're not very big, so I can go through 3 of them in a night pretty easily.
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
I love how NIH has a special amount for malt liquor.
imagine going to a bar and ordering a glass of 8 ounces of malt liquor
guys literally what are you talking about ????
It isn't a bad representation for a lot of craft beers that sit around 7-8% though.
maybe this is why; I don't remember ever seeing it listed on this type of chart before
still weird as a way to display it, given that no one is getting an 8 oz pour of their craft beer in a 12 oz glass and 'what it looks like' is part of the point of the chart.
As for "no absolute drop," what I mean to say is that any drop is temporary and transitional. It is not a permanent chunk removed from the joy they take in life. I love drinking and I'd miss it if it disappeared (obviously I would not break my own rule, even as god king, that's not the deal), but that is something that would fade with time, whereas the health and social benefits would persist.
That just seems very unclear to me (and correspondingly, so too with the question of whether alcohol as currently consumed is net negative or not).
The best evidence we have for what's good for people is what they tend to choose, in conditions of full information and with time to reflect. And in every culture where it's available, tons of people choose alcohol (and in cultures where it's not available, they tend to have other drugs anyway; there appears to be something profoundly attractive about altering consciousness). Addiction confounds this relationship. Perhaps people only choose to drink because they're dependent? But this isn't true; plenty of people drink without being dependent on alcohol and, with the full benefit of knowledge of its health effects, as well as time to reflect, they seem to often enthusiastically choose to continue drinking.
As far as I can see, this creates a strong presumptive case that drinking improves QoL, at least for the majority of people who are capable of doing so in moderation and responsibly. So there is a gain in QoL there that has to be balanced against the other acknowledged losses. I haven't tried to rigorously compare them to show that the gains are actually larger than the losses, but then again, neither has anyone else tried to show the contrary.
The best evidence we have for what's good for people is what they tend to choose, in conditions of full information and with time to reflect
Surely this isn't true? We can establish standards to evaluate quality of life, we can assess the relative quality of decision-making, we can see and recognize cases where people make decisions that are against their best interests, even repeatedly, even when it causes severe harm. People engage in indulgent activities that they do not enjoy and end up feeling shame and self-loathing. These are all common, normal experiences. Does procrastination improve quality of life?
Like, I'd make the same case against smoking — smoking is very dangerous, causes a great deal of physical harm, and is extremely addictive. You could argue that people only enjoy cigarettes because they're addictive, but I really don't think that's true (and it's part of the very successful campaign against cigarettes). I think we can conclude that smoking does not improve quality of life. People who choose to smoke are making a bad, self-harming decision, every time. They make it in full knowledge of the health effects, in much fuller knowledge than for alcohol, where people still lean into the vague pop science and imagine that a glass of wine a day is good for you. Would you not destroy all cigarettes with a snap of your fingers? You could even preserve exceptions for e.g. indigenous tobacco ceremonies if you want.
I think there is also a big question mark when it comes to dependency on alcohol. I suspect how we define dependency here is very important, and the difference between "addiction" and "habit" is a narrower one than we'd like to believe. Habitual drinking — a drinking habit, a compulsion to drink, but not a physical dependency involving withdrawal symptoms — is extremely widespread. If we're considering whether a decision is being made in the perfect crystalline light of reason, in full knowledge of consequences and with complete autonomy, then I think decision-making about alcohol is more compromised than we'd like to admit. And I would guess the vast majority of people are not making decisions about drinking with full knowledge of its consequences, as those consequences are persistently downplayed and argued and misrepresented.
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SummaryJudgmentGrab the hottest iron you can find, stride in the Tower’s front doorRegistered Userregular
George Floyd's murderer was found guilty on all charges, just now.
Some days Blue wonders why anyone ever bothered making numbers so small; other days she supposes even infinity needs to start somewhere.
1.3, I'm pretty sure (I think the standards are American--1 beer = 1 standard drink = 12 ounces = 1 glass of wine = 1.5 oz of liquor, aka an American shot)
but likely actually much more; ABVs have gone way up with the craft revolution. They're assuming your beer is ~5%. If you're actually drinking a 7.5% IPA or whatever, then you wind up with a pint being more like 2 "standard drinks."
oh ok yeah i can pretty comfortably down like 10-12 standard drinks in a night and feel alright the next day
probably a combination of being a relatively heavy drinker, a fat dude and pacing the drinks over the night
if i tried to do that with shots i'd be chundering everywhere
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
I would say I drink on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays, and usually once during the week
When I do drink it's usually 2 or 3 servings based on the above, sometimes as many as 5 or 6 if it's a jackbox party or games night
So probably right at the average of 14, which I still feel is quite high, and I notice an improvement when it's closer to 8 or 9 for the week, or when i don't drink at all for a week, which is rare
I suspect that some alcoholics have a physiology that supports or lends itself to heavy drinking. It obviously makes the net effect less adversive.
Oh, absolutely. Alcohol dehydrogenase expression is predictive of alcoholism, and is likely one of the major reasons that alcoholism is much less common in people of East Asian descent.
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
I suspect that some alcoholics have a physiology that supports or lends itself to heavy drinking. It obviously makes the net effect less adversive.
Oh, absolutely. Alcohol dehydrogenase expression is predictive of alcoholism, and is likely one of the major reasons that alcoholism is much less common in people of East Asian descent.
Yeah I wonder if there are other markers as well. They seem to get less spins and hangovers and other things as well but also perhaps heavy drinking also habituates the body.
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TavIrish Minister for DefenceRegistered Userregular
someone on my twitter just posted
I can’t help but this is going to make a really good Netflix documentary in a few years time... 😂😂
and it took me a minute to realise they were talking about the football, not the trial
it's weird when a tweet/post pops up that's just entirely different to everything else going on
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TavIrish Minister for DefenceRegistered Userregular
There was a time in my life where I was going through a liter of wine a night or 350 mLs of 40% alcohol a night. I would use it to pass out and sleep then wake up "completely" fine. Blood tests showed pretty gnarly liver values. Then I was sober until pandemic where I started up again but now that I'm medicated and have a better working environment I'm down to pretty low amounts again. But that was a scary time. I'm definitely the binge drinking alcoholic and not the long haul kind.
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
Surely this isn't true? We can establish standards to evaluate quality of life, we can assess the relative quality of decision-making, we can see and recognize cases where people make decisions that are against their best interests, even repeatedly, even when it causes severe harm. People engage in indulgent activities that they do not enjoy and end up feeling shame and self-loathing. These are all common, normal experiences. Does procrastination improve quality of life?.
As a matter of descriptive fact, the best measures of quality of life that we have for policy purposes are based off either choices people actually make or the choices that they report that they would make (QALY and DALY measures work this way). And sure, you can try to "correct" the results of those preference-based measures with the wisdom of the sages. For instance, Martha Nussbaum seems to think that instead of asking people what they want for their life, we should ask her what they should want for their life, and she knows the answer because she's fluent in ancient greek, well-read, and crackerjack at dinner parties. Mostly, though, she and her followers have still not been able to come up with a measure good enough to guide many resource allocation decisions, even if we were to simply take their word for it when it comes to what people are supposed to want (this is extremely hard to do systematically).
I do agree that compulsions present a complication when reading people's preferences off their behavior, but would note that we do not see those indicators when it comes to most people's drinking. Many people may have cut back periodically for health reasons, and that does point toward something, but it is rare to "end up feeling shame and self-loathing" after drinking in moderation and enjoying it. I find it surprising to be pressed to argue that moderate drinking is fun and frequently "worth it!"
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TavIrish Minister for DefenceRegistered Userregular
more accurately, they're very easy to miss and come across as a horrible garbage person
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
There was a time in my life where I was going through a liter of wine a night or 350 mLs of 40% alcohol a night. I would use it to pass out and sleep then wake up "completely" fine. Blood tests showed pretty gnarly liver values. Then I was sober until pandemic where I started up again but now that I'm medicated and have a better working environment I'm down to pretty low amounts again. But that was a scary time. I'm definitely the binge drinking alcoholic and not the long haul kind.
There's three or four contestants on top chef this year that aren't drinking cause they lost their restaurants during COVID and became raging alcoholics.
I really hope this opportunity to be on tv again helps them get their kitchens back.
are YOU on the beer list?
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
And less than five minutes post verdict for someone on my work discord to bring up Maxine Waters
There was a time in my life where I was going through a liter of wine a night or 350 mLs of 40% alcohol a night. I would use it to pass out and sleep then wake up "completely" fine. Blood tests showed pretty gnarly liver values. Then I was sober until pandemic where I started up again but now that I'm medicated and have a better working environment I'm down to pretty low amounts again. But that was a scary time. I'm definitely the binge drinking alcoholic and not the long haul kind.
Yep, at my height I'd easily do 20+ beers/day every weekend. I now do maybe 5/week. Alcohol has some seriously bad physiological impacts that get worse over time as it's a poison that strips your body of nutrients. Shame it's delicious.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
We already had one guy in sales flat out leave, cursing out the side of his mouth.
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
AND he doubled down and posted a picture of looters that says "use code "BLM" for 15% off at Nike"
I sent a polite message to my boss who owns the discord server. I guess this is why we can't have nice things.
Surely this isn't true? We can establish standards to evaluate quality of life, we can assess the relative quality of decision-making, we can see and recognize cases where people make decisions that are against their best interests, even repeatedly, even when it causes severe harm. People engage in indulgent activities that they do not enjoy and end up feeling shame and self-loathing. These are all common, normal experiences. Does procrastination improve quality of life?.
As a matter of descriptive fact, the best measures of quality of life that we have for policy purposes are based off either choices people actually make or the choices that they report that they would make (QALY and DALY measures work this way). And sure, you can try to "correct" the results of those preference-based measures with the wisdom of the sages. For instance, Martha Nussbaum seems to think that instead of asking people what they want for their life, we should ask her what they should want for their life, and she knows the answer because she's fluent in ancient greek, well-read, and crackerjack at dinner parties. Mostly, though, she and her followers have still not been able to come up with a measure good enough to guide many resource allocation decisions, even if we were to simply take their word for it when it comes to what people are supposed to want (this is extremely hard to do systematically).
I do agree that compulsions present a complication when reading people's preferences off their behavior, but would note that we do not see those indicators when it comes to most people's drinking. Many people may have cut back periodically for health reasons, and that does point toward something, but it is rare to "end up feeling shame and self-loathing" after drinking in moderation and enjoying it. I find it surprising to be pressed to argue that moderate drinking is fun and frequently "worth it!"
The specific claim is not that moderate drinking isn't worth it
It's that, it the cost of eliminating all problem drinking were simply also eliminating moderate drinking, it would be worth it—that the consequences of problem drinking substantially outweigh the benefits of moderate drinking
I also (largely without data) claim that "moderate" drinking is less common than we'd like to believe, or rather that problem drinking is much more common than we'd like to believe
Posts
Sometimes the future gives me something I'm really interested in.
The amount of people drunk driving is staggering and most certainly underestimated. Another team was responsible for going to all reported accident sites as fast as possible. Again, frequently high passive readings and they even did non court admissible blood draws which show that a loooot of accidents have alcohol involved drivers even if no police don't force tests.
imagine going to a bar and ordering a glass of 8 ounces of malt liquor
guys literally what are you talking about ????
5 fl oz is about 150ml
1.5 fl oz is about 45ml
A standard drink appears to be slightly more than a UK "unit"
Sometimes I’m a passenger in a car and looking around and I see people just, using their phones. Not glancing at a text, not quickly typing in a new address to google maps (not denying those are, on their own, bad). But straight up, eyes on phone screen without glancing up for 3+ ‘One Mississippi, two…’ seconds
How do we find these people and cut off their feet
It isn't a bad representation for a lot of craft beers that sit around 7-8% though.
Part of it is going to be huge variations in how much alcohol is in a drink.
Take Arch's friend for instance
A "standard drink" is 0.6 fl ounces of pure alcohol, which is a 12 ounce can of 5% ABV beer. Pretty typical. A lot of craft beers can go higher; 6% is pretty common. IPAs can go up to 8%. And then they're sometimes marketed in 18 ounce cans.
Sometimes I drink Arrogant Bastard ale - 7.2% ABV, sold in 22 ounce bottles. That's 2.5 standard drinks.
My favorite cocktail is the Sazerac, which is basically "oops, all liquor!" One sazerac can easily be 2 standard drinks, and they're not very big, so I can go through 3 of them in a night pretty easily.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
awww. I love him.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
maybe this is why; I don't remember ever seeing it listed on this type of chart before
still weird as a way to display it, given that no one is getting an 8 oz pour of their craft beer in a 12 oz glass and 'what it looks like' is part of the point of the chart.
Surely this isn't true? We can establish standards to evaluate quality of life, we can assess the relative quality of decision-making, we can see and recognize cases where people make decisions that are against their best interests, even repeatedly, even when it causes severe harm. People engage in indulgent activities that they do not enjoy and end up feeling shame and self-loathing. These are all common, normal experiences. Does procrastination improve quality of life?
Like, I'd make the same case against smoking — smoking is very dangerous, causes a great deal of physical harm, and is extremely addictive. You could argue that people only enjoy cigarettes because they're addictive, but I really don't think that's true (and it's part of the very successful campaign against cigarettes). I think we can conclude that smoking does not improve quality of life. People who choose to smoke are making a bad, self-harming decision, every time. They make it in full knowledge of the health effects, in much fuller knowledge than for alcohol, where people still lean into the vague pop science and imagine that a glass of wine a day is good for you. Would you not destroy all cigarettes with a snap of your fingers? You could even preserve exceptions for e.g. indigenous tobacco ceremonies if you want.
I think there is also a big question mark when it comes to dependency on alcohol. I suspect how we define dependency here is very important, and the difference between "addiction" and "habit" is a narrower one than we'd like to believe. Habitual drinking — a drinking habit, a compulsion to drink, but not a physical dependency involving withdrawal symptoms — is extremely widespread. If we're considering whether a decision is being made in the perfect crystalline light of reason, in full knowledge of consequences and with complete autonomy, then I think decision-making about alcohol is more compromised than we'd like to admit. And I would guess the vast majority of people are not making decisions about drinking with full knowledge of its consequences, as those consequences are persistently downplayed and argued and misrepresented.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/04/20/us/derek-chauvin-verdict-george-floyd
probably a combination of being a relatively heavy drinker, a fat dude and pacing the drinks over the night
if i tried to do that with shots i'd be chundering everywhere
I was wondering why I was hearing a bunch of cheering and horn honking.
When I do drink it's usually 2 or 3 servings based on the above, sometimes as many as 5 or 6 if it's a jackbox party or games night
So probably right at the average of 14, which I still feel is quite high, and I notice an improvement when it's closer to 8 or 9 for the week, or when i don't drink at all for a week, which is rare
Oh, absolutely. Alcohol dehydrogenase expression is predictive of alcoholism, and is likely one of the major reasons that alcoholism is much less common in people of East Asian descent.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
and it took me a minute to realise they were talking about the football, not the trial
it's weird when a tweet/post pops up that's just entirely different to everything else going on
is this your doing
i assume yes
nah i wish
i'd always wary of submitting for topical stories because they're very hard to nail
As a matter of descriptive fact, the best measures of quality of life that we have for policy purposes are based off either choices people actually make or the choices that they report that they would make (QALY and DALY measures work this way). And sure, you can try to "correct" the results of those preference-based measures with the wisdom of the sages. For instance, Martha Nussbaum seems to think that instead of asking people what they want for their life, we should ask her what they should want for their life, and she knows the answer because she's fluent in ancient greek, well-read, and crackerjack at dinner parties. Mostly, though, she and her followers have still not been able to come up with a measure good enough to guide many resource allocation decisions, even if we were to simply take their word for it when it comes to what people are supposed to want (this is extremely hard to do systematically).
I do agree that compulsions present a complication when reading people's preferences off their behavior, but would note that we do not see those indicators when it comes to most people's drinking. Many people may have cut back periodically for health reasons, and that does point toward something, but it is rare to "end up feeling shame and self-loathing" after drinking in moderation and enjoying it. I find it surprising to be pressed to argue that moderate drinking is fun and frequently "worth it!"
There's three or four contestants on top chef this year that aren't drinking cause they lost their restaurants during COVID and became raging alcoholics.
I really hope this opportunity to be on tv again helps them get their kitchens back.
Yep, at my height I'd easily do 20+ beers/day every weekend. I now do maybe 5/week. Alcohol has some seriously bad physiological impacts that get worse over time as it's a poison that strips your body of nutrients. Shame it's delicious.
I sent a polite message to my boss who owns the discord server. I guess this is why we can't have nice things.
The specific claim is not that moderate drinking isn't worth it
It's that, it the cost of eliminating all problem drinking were simply also eliminating moderate drinking, it would be worth it—that the consequences of problem drinking substantially outweigh the benefits of moderate drinking
I also (largely without data) claim that "moderate" drinking is less common than we'd like to believe, or rather that problem drinking is much more common than we'd like to believe