my heuristic has been if Worf's kid is on screen, I don't really have to pay attention. This episode has both worf's kid and Troi' mom, that means I can skip it, right?
Yes, unless you have children and then all Alexander episodes are required viewing, especially the one with the cool aunt who undermines your discipline.
See, it's very reassuring to see a father even more outmatched by a toddler than I usually am.
Also, both rules reverse for DS9, as the Lwaxana episode has some really nice stuff with Odo and the Alexander episode is just all around good.
Hevach on
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
The Lwaxana/Alexander episode of TNG is really good once you get over the cringe factor of an older woman and a preteen boy in a mud bath.
Oh, and there's a holo-clown.
So yeah, I get why people (esp nerds with social anxiety) run for the hills from it, but it's not actually bad and is really a pretty good character-centered episode. It's just difficult to watch.
I'm almost afraid to ask, but what's disgusting about it that stands out? As I recall, it's fairly typical Ferengi are sleazoids. I mean if it's that, sure, but they are the villains?
I'm almost afraid to ask, but what's disgusting about it that stands out? As I recall, it's fairly typical Ferengi are sleazoids. I mean if it's that, sure, but they are the villains?
Lwaxana is sexually assaulted and it's all a big joke.
The Lwaxana/Alexander episode of TNG is really good once you get over the cringe factor of an older woman and a preteen boy in a mud bath.
Oh, and there's a holo-clown.
So yeah, I get why people (esp nerds with social anxiety) run for the hills from it, but it's not actually bad and is really a pretty good character-centered episode. It's just difficult to watch.
I always enjoyed that episode because it reminded me of getting the rare treat of hanging out with an aunt or uncle that was just laid back and chill, and could sort of remove the pressure, unlike my mother who at that time could be mercurial as hell.
The Lwaxana/Alexander episode of TNG is really good once you get over the cringe factor of an older woman and a preteen boy in a mud bath.
Oh, and there's a holo-clown.
So yeah, I get why people (esp nerds with social anxiety) run for the hills from it, but it's not actually bad and is really a pretty good character-centered episode. It's just difficult to watch.
I always enjoyed that episode because it reminded me of getting the rare treat of hanging out with an aunt or uncle that was just laid back and chill, and could sort of remove the pressure, unlike my mother who at that time could be mercurial as hell.
The episode just has way too many great interactions between Alexander, Lwaxana, and Worf to skip. I wish I could find a clip, but when Lwaxana calls Worf "Mr. Woof", he gives just the most resigned response of "...it is Worf, madam".
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
The Lwaxana/Alexander episode of TNG is really good once you get over the cringe factor of an older woman and a preteen boy in a mud bath.
Oh, and there's a holo-clown.
So yeah, I get why people (esp nerds with social anxiety) run for the hills from it, but it's not actually bad and is really a pretty good character-centered episode. It's just difficult to watch.
all Lwaxana episodes are good
come at me
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
The Lwaxana/Alexander episode of TNG is really good once you get over the cringe factor of an older woman and a preteen boy in a mud bath.
Oh, and there's a holo-clown.
So yeah, I get why people (esp nerds with social anxiety) run for the hills from it, but it's not actually bad and is really a pretty good character-centered episode. It's just difficult to watch.
all Lwaxana episodes are good
come at me
Lwaxana is bad, actually, until her somewhat-less obnoxious appearances on DS9.
We already know from past threads that this is my chosen death-hill, so let's let it be at that?
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HerrCronIt that wickedly supports taxationRegistered Userregular
Fraucron has just finished with Tuvix and was not impressed.
"She just straight up killed him while he begged for his life"
She's still soldiering on and right into Resolutions the slashfic nobody asked for and Basics, where everyone is glad Neelix is back from the antics a few episodes prior so he can get at least one crewman killed with his 'wilderness skills'.
My wife just passed Scorpion. When she wondered if she should keep going after about mid season 1 I showed her this clip and refused to provide further context.
Fraucron has just finished with Tuvix and was not impressed.
"She just straight up killed him while he begged for his life"
She's still soldiering on and right into Resolutions the slashfic nobody asked for and Basics, where everyone is glad Neelix is back from the antics a few episodes prior so he can get at least one crewman killed with his 'wilderness skills'.
My wife just passed Scorpion. When she wondered if she should keep going after about mid season 1 I showed her this clip and refused to provide further context.
Best episode of the series. Should have just had multiple murders of Neelix, like one every act in a variety of different ways. I don't like SAW movies, but a Neelix only version would have me in the theatre day 1.
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
My wife just passed Scorpion. When she wondered if she should keep going after about mid season 1 I showed her this clip and refused to provide further context.
Best episode of the series. Should have just had multiple murders of Neelix, like one every act in a variety of different ways. I don't like SAW movies, but a Neelix only version would have me in the theatre day 1.
Nah, The Thaw is still better. The Thaw has the added bonus that while no one murders Neelix, they do stare down one of his idiotic suggestions to the point where he's embarrassed to have spoken like an expert in an area where he's a novice - possibly the only time this happens!
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
The Lwaxana/Alexander episode of TNG is really good once you get over the cringe factor of an older woman and a preteen boy in a mud bath.
Oh, and there's a holo-clown.
So yeah, I get why people (esp nerds with social anxiety) run for the hills from it, but it's not actually bad and is really a pretty good character-centered episode. It's just difficult to watch.
all Lwaxana episodes are good
come at me
Lwaxana is bad, actually, until her somewhat-less obnoxious appearances on DS9.
We already know from past threads that this is my chosen death-hill, so let's let it be at that?
I always have to give Lwaxana a pass because one, she's one of the only recurring characters that regularly cuts through the stuffiness and pomp of the Enterprise crew and two, because even though she was quite often written as a one dimensional, "worst mother in law ever" character, Majel Barret always managed to turn it around and give the character a real humanity and vulnerability that I'm not sure any other actress could have done. (except for the kidnapping episode, there was no saving that mess of an episode.)
Dark_Side on
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Tried to watch Enterprise the other day.
I made it as far as the jackass farmer blowing away the Klingon with a space shotgun before turning it off. I mean, I totally buy that some random-ass Midwestern farmer is going to just plain murder a guy for blowing up a corn silo in modern times, but I don't watch Star Trek to have it show how things are right now. This is supposed to be a better world, not one where random jackass farmers gun down aliens because they're, well, twitchy asshole farmers.
And that situation is already setting up something which is certainly going to be "gee, if only this guy had survived to talk to us!" that would've saved us a season or two of fumbling in the dark, I just know it.
I tried watching the later seasons of Enterprise and it still sucks.
The fact is that you have an absolutely terrible cast of characters and their behavior doesn't get better or redeemed later on in the series, it's still the same gaggle of insufferable jack asses.
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Captain Ultralow resolution pictures of birdsRegistered Userregular
alright, this episode with luxwana and the kid is alright.
My wife just passed Scorpion. When she wondered if she should keep going after about mid season 1 I showed her this clip and refused to provide further context.
When she gets there, and learns this is a holodeck dream, she's going to be pissed.
If there's any justice anywhere, you'll suffer a fate worse than holo-Neelix.
And you'll deserve it entirely.
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HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
I still find it funny how Vulcans are essentially space elves.
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HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
since tuvix came up:
I do not understand why people hate janeway in this episode. ya sure she sucks, but not because of this. she clearly did what had to be done which was restore 2 god damn living people who only merged cause of a freak accident, neither of which seemed particularly troubled about being revived at the end of the show!
I made it as far as the jackass farmer blowing away the Klingon with a space shotgun before turning it off. I mean, I totally buy that some random-ass Midwestern farmer is going to just plain murder a guy for blowing up a corn silo in modern times, but I don't watch Star Trek to have it show how things are right now. This is supposed to be a better world, not one where random jackass farmers gun down aliens because they're, well, twitchy asshole farmers.
And that situation is already setting up something which is certainly going to be "gee, if only this guy had survived to talk to us!" that would've saved us a season or two of fumbling in the dark, I just know it.
So I restarted DS9 instead. Such a better choice.
Oh! but you missed out on Captain Archer throwing a giant tantrum that the mean old Vulcans won't let him launch his ship. That's as far as I made it when I watched the pilot because I was like, this guy is a hotheaded idiot, he just whined like a toddler in front of all the top brass, he clearly isn't equipped to command a crew or make command decisions, and his idea for what to do with the dead klingon is fucking terrible. But the earth admiral is like "yeah man! Go with it!"
I do not understand why people hate janeway in this episode. ya sure she sucks, but not because of this. she clearly did what had to be done which was restore 2 god damn living people who only merged cause of a freak accident, neither of which seemed particularly troubled about being revived at the end of the show!
Because utilitarianism isn’t everything. She started with two people, sure. But then she got one person, a unique, loving feeling breathing individual who did not want to die. And she killed that person to get the other two back.
That kind of call is what they (don’t) pay her for, but it’s by no means an obvious choice.
ETA: I seem to remember that Janeway really isn’t on board with Tuvix as a person, either, and essentially starts from a position of abrogating their autonomy at all. But it’s been a while, so I may be mixing that up with the way she treats the Doctor.
I made it as far as the jackass farmer blowing away the Klingon with a space shotgun before turning it off. I mean, I totally buy that some random-ass Midwestern farmer is going to just plain murder a guy for blowing up a corn silo in modern times, but I don't watch Star Trek to have it show how things are right now. This is supposed to be a better world, not one where random jackass farmers gun down aliens because they're, well, twitchy asshole farmers.
And that situation is already setting up something which is certainly going to be "gee, if only this guy had survived to talk to us!" that would've saved us a season or two of fumbling in the dark, I just know it.
So I restarted DS9 instead. Such a better choice.
Oh! but you missed out on Captain Archer throwing a giant tantrum that the mean old Vulcans won't let him launch his ship. That's as far as I made it when I watched the pilot because I was like, this guy is a hotheaded idiot, he just whined like a toddler in front of all the top brass, he clearly isn't equipped to command a crew or make command decisions, and his idea for what to do with the dead klingon is fucking terrible. But the earth admiral is like "yeah man! Go with it!"
oh god, yeah and he just keeps getting worse... ugh! Makes me mad just thinking about him. I need a chaser.
I do not understand why people hate janeway in this episode. ya sure she sucks, but not because of this. she clearly did what had to be done which was restore 2 god damn living people who only merged cause of a freak accident, neither of which seemed particularly troubled about being revived at the end of the show!
Because utilitarianism isn’t everything. She started with two people, sure. But then she got one person, a unique, loving feeling breathing individual who did not want to die. And she killed that person to get the other two back.
That kind of call is what they (don’t) pay her for, but it’s by no means an obvious choice.
ETA: I seem to remember that Janeway really isn’t on board with Tuvix as a person, either, and essentially starts from a position of abrogating their autonomy at all. But it’s been a while, so I may be mixing that up with the way she treats the Doctor.
Tuvix didn't want to be "dead" any more than Tuvok and Neelix wanted to be "dead"; they both have every right to life as well, and they have prior claim to exist over Tuvix essentially forcing the two people to remain as himself. Leaving them as Tuvix is basically trapping them both in a life they didn't choose.
But the big thing that falls apart for me is that Neelix is empathetic enough and Tuvok smart and rational enough that their merged experience would produce somebody who, yes, would wish to live, but would also be unwilling to keep their life at the expense of two others especially when the singular entity knows and feels the lives of being two people before. Tuvix having a breakdown about wishing to live? Yeah, definitely buy that. But I would've bought the situation a whole lot more if Tuvix figured out a way to split himself and did it while the crew tried to figure things out, then the question was left hanging with the crew what they would've done.
Janeway's handling of the situation was pretty nasty, though.
I do not understand why people hate janeway in this episode. ya sure she sucks, but not because of this. she clearly did what had to be done which was restore 2 god damn living people who only merged cause of a freak accident, neither of which seemed particularly troubled about being revived at the end of the show!
Because utilitarianism isn’t everything. She started with two people, sure. But then she got one person, a unique, loving feeling breathing individual who did not want to die. And she killed that person to get the other two back.
That kind of call is what they (don’t) pay her for, but it’s by no means an obvious choice.
ETA: I seem to remember that Janeway really isn’t on board with Tuvix as a person, either, and essentially starts from a position of abrogating their autonomy at all. But it’s been a while, so I may be mixing that up with the way she treats the Doctor.
Tuvix didn't want to be "dead" any more than Tuvok and Neelix wanted to be "dead"; they both have every right to life as well, and they have prior claim to exist over Tuvix essentially forcing the two people to remain as himself. Leaving them as Tuvix is basically trapping them both in a life they didn't choose.
But the big thing that falls apart for me is that Neelix is empathetic enough and Tuvok smart and rational enough that their merged experience would produce somebody who, yes, would wish to live, but would also be unwilling to keep their life at the expense of two others especially when the singular entity knows and feels the lives of being two people before. Tuvix having a breakdown about wishing to live? Yeah, definitely buy that. But I would've bought the situation a whole lot more if Tuvix figured out a way to split himself and did it while the crew tried to figure things out, then the question was left hanging with the crew what they would've done.
Janeway's handling of the situation was pretty nasty, though.
I actually like that the episode refuses to give a clean out. Janeway has to make an ethical call, and it’s not easy. She has to kill, with her own hands, someone who has publicly begged for their life, to save two others.
The Doctor, it’s worth noting, refuses to perform the procedure himself, on ethical grounds.
The episode makes you think about the issue - we’re still discussing it, what, twenty years later? Personally I’m not sure I would have made the same decision Janeway did, but these decisions, these points of philosophy and thoughtfulness that engage the audience as adults, and ask questions, are what I always hoped would shape Voyager as a series.
(It’s also a sign of the whipsaw writing for Janeway that she can do something like this - or about half the stuff she does to the Doctor - and still give Ransom the ethical high horse treatment in Equinox)
Oh my god. An episode I was watching today starts with unidentified ship coming near, the crew asks picard if they should raise shields. He says no we don't want to escalate let's find out what this is. They yell that they ship is powering up some kind of energy and the camera cuts to just deadpan face but large animated shrug from picard and an "oh well raise the shields" and I couldn't stop laughing for a solid five minutes.
I do not understand why people hate janeway in this episode. ya sure she sucks, but not because of this. she clearly did what had to be done which was restore 2 god damn living people who only merged cause of a freak accident, neither of which seemed particularly troubled about being revived at the end of the show!
I don't actually hate her for this, but I do think it shows a side of her that I wish the writers explored more rather than wiping away after every episode - the Janeway that will absolutely fuck your shit up if you stand between her and her goals. Yeah, Tuvok and Neelix were two people and Tuvix was only one, but he did sit there and beg for his life and Janeway said "nope, fuck you. Give me my best friend Tuvok back."
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
I do not understand why people hate janeway in this episode. ya sure she sucks, but not because of this. she clearly did what had to be done which was restore 2 god damn living people who only merged cause of a freak accident, neither of which seemed particularly troubled about being revived at the end of the show!
Because utilitarianism isn’t everything. She started with two people, sure. But then she got one person, a unique, loving feeling breathing individual who did not want to die. And she killed that person to get the other two back.
That kind of call is what they (don’t) pay her for, but it’s by no means an obvious choice.
ETA: I seem to remember that Janeway really isn’t on board with Tuvix as a person, either, and essentially starts from a position of abrogating their autonomy at all. But it’s been a while, so I may be mixing that up with the way she treats the Doctor.
Tuvix didn't want to be "dead" any more than Tuvok and Neelix wanted to be "dead"; they both have every right to life as well, and they have prior claim to exist over Tuvix essentially forcing the two people to remain as himself. Leaving them as Tuvix is basically trapping them both in a life they didn't choose.
But the big thing that falls apart for me is that Neelix is empathetic enough and Tuvok smart and rational enough that their merged experience would produce somebody who, yes, would wish to live, but would also be unwilling to keep their life at the expense of two others especially when the singular entity knows and feels the lives of being two people before. Tuvix having a breakdown about wishing to live? Yeah, definitely buy that. But I would've bought the situation a whole lot more if Tuvix figured out a way to split himself and did it while the crew tried to figure things out, then the question was left hanging with the crew what they would've done.
Janeway's handling of the situation was pretty nasty, though.
I actually like that the episode refuses to give a clean out. Janeway has to make an ethical call, and it’s not easy. She has to kill, with her own hands, someone who has publicly begged for their life, to save two others.
The Doctor, it’s worth noting, refuses to perform the procedure himself, on ethical grounds.
The episode makes you think about the issue - we’re still discussing it, what, twenty years later? Personally I’m not sure I would have made the same decision Janeway did, but these decisions, these points of philosophy and thoughtfulness that engage the audience as adults, and ask questions, are what I always hoped would shape Voyager as a series.
(It’s also a sign of the whipsaw writing for Janeway that she can do something like this - or about half the stuff she does to the Doctor - and still give Ransom the ethical high horse treatment in Equinox)
I also like that everybody else is basically on board with this too. Tuvix begs them for help and they are all basically trying to clear their conscience by being like "I didn't push the button myself". Janeway is just doing what they all want but won't say they do.
It's the literal trolley problem via transporter accident.
shryke on
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Unfortunately for Tuvix, Janeway's solution to the trolley problem requires that somebody dies.
The space magic that is Star Trek’s transporter allows every individual viewer to fudge for themselves is whether or not Tuvok and Neelix are well and truly dead for the majority of the episode’s runtime or not.
I say they are, and that differentiates the situation from the trolley problem, in which all parties are alive on the tracks at the point where a decision is made. If I shoot a stranger, but as a consequence two friends of mine somehow rise from the grave, I am still a murderer.
Tuvok and Neelix died in an accident. Killing Tuvix was a choice.
Unfortunately for Tuvix, Janeway's solution to the trolley problem requires that somebody dies.
So do all solutions to the trolley problem. That's the point of the trolley problem.
Except the trolley problem usually starts off with everyone alive. If you think that Tuvok and Neelix are dead, then it's more like necromancy fueled by human sacrifice.
I think what's extra disturbing is that there was a month between his creation and the eventual development of the technique that would kill him. This wasn't a snap decision, it was four weeks of research on how to undo this person's existence.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
I think the only thing you can conclusively say about the Tuvix episode is that if you came away from it thinking "what's the big deal? Kill one person to save two! EZCLAP", then you missed the point of the episode.
i know the answer is 'because that's how the story was written' but clearly in another story tuvix would have gone into the transporter and all 3 would have come out because a competent crew like the enterprise finds a way out of the no win situations.
I just feel the episode lacked one final scene, where they sit down with Tuvok and Neelix and finally ask them what they want.
"Ok, knowing all that we know now, and knowing we can replicate the accident again, how do you feel? Do you want to go back to being Tuvix and let him live?"
"Fuck the fuck off no FUCKING way.
"All right. Now what's your say, Neelix?"
Or serious talk, if they genuinely had that scene and both said something to the effect of "No we don't want to go back, thank you for saving us", would that have just broken the whole "moral quandary" issue?
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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Yes, unless you have children and then all Alexander episodes are required viewing, especially the one with the cool aunt who undermines your discipline.
See, it's very reassuring to see a father even more outmatched by a toddler than I usually am.
Also, both rules reverse for DS9, as the Lwaxana episode has some really nice stuff with Odo and the Alexander episode is just all around good.
Oh, and there's a holo-clown.
So yeah, I get why people (esp nerds with social anxiety) run for the hills from it, but it's not actually bad and is really a pretty good character-centered episode. It's just difficult to watch.
I always enjoyed that episode because it reminded me of getting the rare treat of hanging out with an aunt or uncle that was just laid back and chill, and could sort of remove the pressure, unlike my mother who at that time could be mercurial as hell.
The episode just has way too many great interactions between Alexander, Lwaxana, and Worf to skip. I wish I could find a clip, but when Lwaxana calls Worf "Mr. Woof", he gives just the most resigned response of "...it is Worf, madam".
all Lwaxana episodes are good
come at me
Lwaxana is bad, actually, until her somewhat-less obnoxious appearances on DS9.
We already know from past threads that this is my chosen death-hill, so let's let it be at that?
"She just straight up killed him while he begged for his life"
She's still soldiering on and right into Resolutions the slashfic nobody asked for and Basics, where everyone is glad Neelix is back from the antics a few episodes prior so he can get at least one crewman killed with his 'wilderness skills'.
I don't know how she does it.
My wife just passed Scorpion. When she wondered if she should keep going after about mid season 1 I showed her this clip and refused to provide further context.
This a thousand times
Best episode of the series. Should have just had multiple murders of Neelix, like one every act in a variety of different ways. I don't like SAW movies, but a Neelix only version would have me in the theatre day 1.
Nah, The Thaw is still better. The Thaw has the added bonus that while no one murders Neelix, they do stare down one of his idiotic suggestions to the point where he's embarrassed to have spoken like an expert in an area where he's a novice - possibly the only time this happens!
I always have to give Lwaxana a pass because one, she's one of the only recurring characters that regularly cuts through the stuffiness and pomp of the Enterprise crew and two, because even though she was quite often written as a one dimensional, "worst mother in law ever" character, Majel Barret always managed to turn it around and give the character a real humanity and vulnerability that I'm not sure any other actress could have done. (except for the kidnapping episode, there was no saving that mess of an episode.)
I made it as far as the jackass farmer blowing away the Klingon with a space shotgun before turning it off. I mean, I totally buy that some random-ass Midwestern farmer is going to just plain murder a guy for blowing up a corn silo in modern times, but I don't watch Star Trek to have it show how things are right now. This is supposed to be a better world, not one where random jackass farmers gun down aliens because they're, well, twitchy asshole farmers.
And that situation is already setting up something which is certainly going to be "gee, if only this guy had survived to talk to us!" that would've saved us a season or two of fumbling in the dark, I just know it.
So I restarted DS9 instead. Such a better choice.
The fact is that you have an absolutely terrible cast of characters and their behavior doesn't get better or redeemed later on in the series, it's still the same gaggle of insufferable jack asses.
Still don't like the kid though.
If there's any justice anywhere, you'll suffer a fate worse than holo-Neelix.
And you'll deserve it entirely.
Dark Page (assuming you mean that episode) is EXTREMELY underrated
Majel Barret is a fantastic actress
I do not understand why people hate janeway in this episode. ya sure she sucks, but not because of this. she clearly did what had to be done which was restore 2 god damn living people who only merged cause of a freak accident, neither of which seemed particularly troubled about being revived at the end of the show!
Oh! but you missed out on Captain Archer throwing a giant tantrum that the mean old Vulcans won't let him launch his ship. That's as far as I made it when I watched the pilot because I was like, this guy is a hotheaded idiot, he just whined like a toddler in front of all the top brass, he clearly isn't equipped to command a crew or make command decisions, and his idea for what to do with the dead klingon is fucking terrible. But the earth admiral is like "yeah man! Go with it!"
Because utilitarianism isn’t everything. She started with two people, sure. But then she got one person, a unique, loving feeling breathing individual who did not want to die. And she killed that person to get the other two back.
That kind of call is what they (don’t) pay her for, but it’s by no means an obvious choice.
ETA: I seem to remember that Janeway really isn’t on board with Tuvix as a person, either, and essentially starts from a position of abrogating their autonomy at all. But it’s been a while, so I may be mixing that up with the way she treats the Doctor.
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oh god, yeah and he just keeps getting worse... ugh! Makes me mad just thinking about him. I need a chaser.
oh yeah... that's better.
Tuvix didn't want to be "dead" any more than Tuvok and Neelix wanted to be "dead"; they both have every right to life as well, and they have prior claim to exist over Tuvix essentially forcing the two people to remain as himself. Leaving them as Tuvix is basically trapping them both in a life they didn't choose.
But the big thing that falls apart for me is that Neelix is empathetic enough and Tuvok smart and rational enough that their merged experience would produce somebody who, yes, would wish to live, but would also be unwilling to keep their life at the expense of two others especially when the singular entity knows and feels the lives of being two people before. Tuvix having a breakdown about wishing to live? Yeah, definitely buy that. But I would've bought the situation a whole lot more if Tuvix figured out a way to split himself and did it while the crew tried to figure things out, then the question was left hanging with the crew what they would've done.
Janeway's handling of the situation was pretty nasty, though.
I actually like that the episode refuses to give a clean out. Janeway has to make an ethical call, and it’s not easy. She has to kill, with her own hands, someone who has publicly begged for their life, to save two others.
The Doctor, it’s worth noting, refuses to perform the procedure himself, on ethical grounds.
The episode makes you think about the issue - we’re still discussing it, what, twenty years later? Personally I’m not sure I would have made the same decision Janeway did, but these decisions, these points of philosophy and thoughtfulness that engage the audience as adults, and ask questions, are what I always hoped would shape Voyager as a series.
(It’s also a sign of the whipsaw writing for Janeway that she can do something like this - or about half the stuff she does to the Doctor - and still give Ransom the ethical high horse treatment in Equinox)
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I don't actually hate her for this, but I do think it shows a side of her that I wish the writers explored more rather than wiping away after every episode - the Janeway that will absolutely fuck your shit up if you stand between her and her goals. Yeah, Tuvok and Neelix were two people and Tuvix was only one, but he did sit there and beg for his life and Janeway said "nope, fuck you. Give me my best friend Tuvok back."
I also like that everybody else is basically on board with this too. Tuvix begs them for help and they are all basically trying to clear their conscience by being like "I didn't push the button myself". Janeway is just doing what they all want but won't say they do.
It's the literal trolley problem via transporter accident.
Also some guy you just met called Tuvix dies, I dunno, no one cares.
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I say they are, and that differentiates the situation from the trolley problem, in which all parties are alive on the tracks at the point where a decision is made. If I shoot a stranger, but as a consequence two friends of mine somehow rise from the grave, I am still a murderer.
Tuvok and Neelix died in an accident. Killing Tuvix was a choice.
So do all solutions to the trolley problem. That's the point of the trolley problem.
Except the trolley problem usually starts off with everyone alive. If you think that Tuvok and Neelix are dead, then it's more like necromancy fueled by human sacrifice.
I think what's extra disturbing is that there was a month between his creation and the eventual development of the technique that would kill him. This wasn't a snap decision, it was four weeks of research on how to undo this person's existence.
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
GoG: https://www.gog.com/u/pailryder
"Ok, knowing all that we know now, and knowing we can replicate the accident again, how do you feel? Do you want to go back to being Tuvix and let him live?"
"Fuck the fuck off no FUCKING way.
"All right. Now what's your say, Neelix?"
Or serious talk, if they genuinely had that scene and both said something to the effect of "No we don't want to go back, thank you for saving us", would that have just broken the whole "moral quandary" issue?