Daycare might also have a good impact on this too. Ripley decided she wanted to start using the potty because the big kids at school did.
I am in the business of saving lives.
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BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
We've been struggling with this recently. Sapling is just about 4, and although she's used the potty a couple of times in the past, she's been pretty resistant. We tried training underwear for a little bit there, but she ended getting too upset about everything getting wet.
Finally, this weekend we decided to finally go bottoms off. It's been a bit of a struggle, and she'd definitely rather continue wearing diapers "until I'm a grownup", but I think we are getting somewhere. A couple of small pee accident, plus three times sitting down and peeing unprompted. Still haven't gotten her to poo in the potty though, she seems content holding it until nap/bed time.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
Oh wait we bribed her too. One m&m for trying, two for success, three for poop. Did this result in her occasionally "trying several times an hour"? You know it did!
It's expensive. But I bought new toliet seats for the entire house that have a little kid snap in / out center piece. That way she would use whatever potty was closest.
It's expensive. But I bought new toliet seats for the entire house that have a little kid snap in / out center piece. That way she would use whatever potty was closest.
We started with a stand-alone kids potty and moved up to this exact seat a few months ago. It seems to be working pretty well, and I may get one for the downstairs toilet as well.
I like that he can’t just slam the lid closed. He likes that he can let the lid go and he can watch it slowly rest into place. (Also, it’s $10 cheaper at Target )
We’ve been at a weird stage for like 9 months now where he’s like 90% trained. He can pee on the toilet by himself. He can hold it and wear underwear if we go for a short drive. He wears underwear for naps. At night we’ve got pull ups we use still, but 50% of the time they’re dry in the morning.
But then there’s pooping. He just refuses to do it on the potty. Needs a diaper/pull up, every day at the same time.
We’ve tried bribing with candy for pooping, we’ve bought special toys we told him he can hold on the potty and keep if he poops. I’ve told him I’ll buy him a ride-on atv if he poops (and the neighbor kids have one so he’s seen how fun it can be).
Nope. He just wants to keep doing what we’ve been doing.
A lot of people I know used the oh crap! book. I basically just picked up some of the basics from listening to them talk about it and used what worked.
When I felt my kids were just about there and ready to just go for it, there were some naked days. Then just wearing underwear and dealing with a few accidents.
If that's all there is my friends, then let's keep dancing
We’ve been at a weird stage for like 9 months now where he’s like 90% trained. He can pee on the toilet by himself. He can hold it and wear underwear if we go for a short drive. He wears underwear for naps. At night we’ve got pull ups we use still, but 50% of the time they’re dry in the morning.
But then there’s pooping. He just refuses to do it on the potty. Needs a diaper/pull up, every day at the same time.
We’ve tried bribing with candy for pooping, we’ve bought special toys we told him he can hold on the potty and keep if he poops. I’ve told him I’ll buy him a ride-on atv if he poops (and the neighbor kids have one so he’s seen how fun it can be).
Nope. He just wants to keep doing what we’ve been doing.
Dang, not even for an ATV?
I am in the business of saving lives.
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lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
edited June 2021
Whoever says that having more than one child is easier, has to explain how.
Ellie's best friend came over for a play date today and by the time dinner was on the table, there has been at least three separate "in not playing with you" breakdown into tears fights.
Then his parents came over for dinner and things got worse somehow. Best friend actually bit his father, there were more, "I'm not talking to you" things.
But finally things were ok, and the left and I'm so very lucky with the child that I have, y'all.
Who has a five year old, without extra circumstances, that still bites.
Supposedly they spend time and play more with each and the younger ones learn new stuff easier from the older one. I'm sceptical that these boni outweigh the extra work?
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lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
Now, Ellie is definitely going through an emotional growth spurt and has been a bit all over emotions wise lately. And even allowing for extra generosity towards them being, you know, just five. There seems to be a lot more clash than I expected?
Also, please tell me that my expectations of a child not biting others by five isn't just wildly out there? Like, that should be a thing that's been taught as unacceptable before five, right?
Now, Ellie is definitely going through an emotional growth spurt and has been a bit all over emotions wise lately. And even allowing for extra generosity towards them being, you know, just five. There seems to be a lot more clash than I expected?
Also, please tell me that my expectations of a child not biting others by five isn't just wildly out there? Like, that should be a thing that's been taught as unacceptable before five, right?
It's unacceptable and they know it, probably won't do it with strangers. But their own parents are placed in a separate container in their brain. I'm ashamed to admit that my kid tried to bite me as well this weekend, I know he was super tired, but it was still unacceptable. I held them in my "loving embrace"/headlock for a good 10 minutes to calm him down. It really sucked, soured the whole weekend for me and I couldn't even tell my partner because of her mental health issues. confessionbear.jpg.
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WRT more than one child, it is a very touchy subject for me. We always wanted more than 1 child, but when my partner's health took a nosedive and the birth was a medical rollercoaster I just couldn't imagine raising another kid. It took my partner a lot longer to come to terms with this, but I think we are on the same page now. Still: if only things would have gone differently we would totally have 2 kids.
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Kane Red RobeMaster of MagicArcanusRegistered Userregular
Now, Ellie is definitely going through an emotional growth spurt and has been a bit all over emotions wise lately. And even allowing for extra generosity towards them being, you know, just five. There seems to be a lot more clash than I expected?
Also, please tell me that my expectations of a child not biting others by five isn't just wildly out there? Like, that should be a thing that's been taught as unacceptable before five, right?
When I was in 1st grade (so 5-6) I bit a kid at school, so I would say some kids just get there faster than others.
In child Kayne's defense that was literally the only time I bit anyone ever. It's entirely possible your kid's friend was over excited from the playdate and exhibiting behavior that is otherwise rare for the.
I wasn't even sorry about it either, got sent to the principal's office to explain myself, which went something like, "They wanted to kiss me and I said no, but they tried to kiss me anyways and they were too close for me to hit them so I bit them."
They still made my mom come and take me home for the day :biggrin:
I can't speak to having more than two kids, although having grown up as the oldest of four I can tell you for sure that the kids start to handle some of the work with the littlest one and that's kind of a mixed bag, but yeah it's basically what honovere said. My younger daughter's picked loads of stuff up faster from watching her older sister (not language, that was the one thing she came to later because her older sister did a lot of eerily accurate talking for her) and they really do play well together most of the time and the best thing of all is that they are each an additional place for the other to seek attention from besides my wife and I and it can't be understated how much that is THE BEST THING. It's also worth pointing out that with a second kid you are much better prepared than you could ever have been for your first one and while babies are all different, a lot of it is the same and knowing the deal really does make it easier.
Understanding that I probably have one of the best of all possible scenarios (both the same gender, year and a half apart, generally good natured, 10 and 8 so minimal hormones in play) I can say that having two kids has been completely priceless during this past year. I have absolutely no idea how anyone with 1 kid coped with being quarantined with them and I don't know what either of my daughters would have done without the other.
I think a lot of you in the thread have little ones and I think it's important to say, and repeat, that the amount of literal physical work you have to do with your kids has a very inverse relationship to how old they are. You spend the first fiveish years just keeping them alive and it's really a huge amount of work but that tapers off and you start having to do a lot more soft skills work with emotional and mental development that's taxing in its own way but not quite as harrowing as the early "where are they/what are the eating/should they bee eating that/have they eaten real food recently enough/do we have enough real food on hand/there's another diaper/guess I need to do laundry/is there detergent/did I close the gate behind me/what was that noise/wait where'd they crawl to now" cycle.
I've got a three year old and a six month old and the three year old loves to sit next to the infant and "take Care" and that's enough to keep the infant from crying
I am in the business of saving lives.
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FishmanPut your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain.Registered Userregular
Ugh, 5yo fell over today at school. Tripped and tore up his hand on the asphalt. They put a bandaid on.
So I figured it was a minor graze or scrape.
But he's been complaining and crying about not wanting to take off the bandaid even though it's falling off after a day of use on his palm.
So I finally take it off at bedtime and see not a scrape or graze, but a big flap of skin has been mostly torn off and closed back. Little one says they didn't wash it or clean it before putting a bandaid on.
There's a noticable amount of grit and dirt in the seams, and presumably under the flap of skin, but it's already started healing and resealing, so I can't open it back up and clean it properly.
Anyway, I took out my sterile gauze, some iodine, a new bandaid and held his arm down while he screamed so much he vomited while I did my best to clean around the edges of a dirty wound that was 10 hours old, because, yeah, it looks nasty. No wonder he was saying it stings and hurts. Not red and angry like there's an infection, but it would hurt and if there's any irritants in the wound it will be supersensitive and definitely need to be watched for further signs of infection.
Bit disappointed in the standard of care from the school though. Like, I know, I know kids will get hurt all the time, but closing up a torn skin flap with a bandaid without cleaning the dirt out.. that's not just me, right? It feels a bit substandard, but maybe my own sense of proportion here is off.
Thanks everyone who provided feedback on this. His hand is healing, with no sign of significant infection, but it has been pretty ugly and I feel the poor initial treatment has made healing unnecessarily painful and slow.
We followed up with the school and it seems that part of the reason it was so poorly handled is that triage for 'minor incidents' is handled by the older children at the school (i.e. literally 9-year-olds), presumably as part of some child health ownership initiative.
Seconded but throw a fit first, make sure every other parent knows that's what's happening, and try to get that policy changed because holy shit is that not ok.
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lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
I could see it being ok if it was supervised by an adult who was first aid certified.
@Fishman I don't need to know anything more, move your kid somewhere else.
We let 9 year olds run the triage at our ER I don't see what the problem is. They've only killed 3 people this month.
Well that's better than the first-years at least.
Seriously though I cannot understand the thought process that lead to that particular task being 'health ownership'. Like, help go get the bandaids at the direction of the adult, maybe. Should be more like, pick which healthy snack option we're doing today or something not 'diagnose and treat injuries'.
@Fishman I don't need to know anything more, move your kid somewhere else.
We let 9 year olds run the triage at our ER I don't see what the problem is. They've only killed 3 people this month.
Well that's better than the first-years at least.
Seriously though I cannot understand the thought process that lead to that particular task being 'health ownership'. Like, help go get the bandaids at the direction of the adult, maybe. Should be more like, pick which healthy snack option we're doing today or something not 'diagnose and treat injuries'.
I actually think that's a really cool idea, with two super important caveats: 1) the parents of the volunteering kids have to agree, and 2) there have to be supervising adults to make sure the correct decisions are made. With both of those, this is a fun way to get both "leadership" soft skills and important "how to treat basic injury" experience.
But the biggest lesson in any First Aid class is recognizing when something is above your skill level and/or needs aid by a medical professional. And making those judgement calls needs to be done in a high stress situation. Exactly the kind of work you can't rely on children for.
The school either:
1. Literally has nine year olds doing a job that is even difficult for adults
2. Falsely blamed a bunch of nine year olds for a mistake made by an adult
I'm not sure which option is worse.
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FishmanPut your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain.Registered Userregular
edited June 2021
Okay we've dug into this a little more and here's the current process for first aid at the school:
The first aid station is manned by 9 & 10 year olds.
For basic cuts and grazes requiring no more treatment than a band aid, they are empowered to administer that without supervision. Maybe wipe the cut or graze with an disinfectant wipe, first.
If there's anything needing more than just a band aid, they bring one of the staff from reception, who all have first aid training.
Who decides if a wound is more serious and they need to bother an adult? The 9 or 10 year olds in the first aid station.
So yeah, triage, assessment, and treatment of this injury were done by children only slightly older than a PS4.
If I hadn't personally just experienced it, I could honestly believe this was a made up scenario for a hypothetical case study in an exam on system process and design.
As my wife observed, she now has an answer as to why, when she looked at the injury under the band-aid, how any adult could have looked at that injury and thought the treatment of it was good enough. The answer is, at no point in this process was an adult involved. A 9 year old looked at a nasty skin tear, saw it was (just) small enough that it could be covered by a band aid, put on a plaster without properly cleaning out the wound, and wrote 'graze' into the incident log.
But wait, there's more!
When we were discussing how it occurred that my child was treated and sent home having been provided with an inadequate level of care, the staff member we were talking to managed to turn it around on us as parents! Asking why we didn't inspect the wound when the child came home with a bandaid, and stating that it was the assumption of the school that a parent would investigate all injuries once they came home, as if the injury wasn't already 4 hours old by the end of the school day and already closed, and still another 3 hours after that before they were seen by a parent, because after school care is a thing.
And the answer to as to why we wouldn't immediately check every injury like a paranoid helicopter parent is that when we, as parents, see a band-aid on a child from an injury sustained at school, we make a not-unreasonable assumption that the child has been subjected to an adequate level of care and that the treatment administered was sufficient to the wound such that we shouldn't need to check every bump and scrape immediately, and instead only inspect it at such times as when we might consider changing the dressing. An assumption that, it appears, is apparently unexpectedly hopeful.
When the point was raised that we have just experienced a system process failure and that we have an actual demonstrable example of this, the solution offered was that when new entrants (5 year olds) get treated this is also notified to the child's teacher post-treatment. I'm not sure how this is supposed to help triage failures for, say, 6 year olds, but shit, at least they're trying, I guess.
Maybe I can ask one of these 9-year-olds about process design analysis for catastrophic failure scenarios, see what they come up with.
That's unbelievably cool. Your new name is cool guy. Let's have sex.
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lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
edited June 2021
Jesus.
I get that the teachers may be stretched and short staffed and facing burnout etc. And that adding another duty on isn't really something they want. I get that and I sympathize.
But
That's just not good enough.
There should be an adult at the first aid station overseeing the 9 year olds. Hire a nurse. Get a parent or guardian volunteer.
I can't imagine that you are in a low decile zone with super limited resources. What the ever loving hell.
Edit: not that any level of decile is an appropriate excuse for that lack of care. And I'd be just as angry in decile 1 as I would at 10.
Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
Fishman if you want to keep going further, push two main points.
Firstly as you said, what training does a nine year old have to administer first aid (re: none)
Secondly I would ask how are they providing duty of care in this situation when a student is injured.
Thirdly (I know I said two) ask them how it works even there is a major, time critical how will students know to go to a teacher rather than this triage desk.
I would push hard on duty of care, because frankly they have none and it’s one of their key responsibilities as teachers.
I get that the teachers may be stretched and short staffed and facing burnout etc. And that adding another duty on isn't really something they want. I get that and I sympathize.
But
That's just not good enough.
There should be an adult at the first aid station overseeing the 9 year olds. Hire a nurse. Get a parent or guardian volunteer.
I can't imagine that you are in a low decile zone with super limited resources. What the ever loving hell.
Edit: not that any level of decile is an appropriate excuse for that lack of care. And I'd be just as angry in decile 1 as I would at 10.
Funny story about deciles: they're set by the socio-economic status of the surrounding suburb, not the socio-economic status of the enrolled students.
So, if, for instance, you're the only school in a semi-gentrified suburb that doesn't restrict its roll to out-of-zone enrolments, and also a short distance from an on-ramp directly between the lowest-income neighbourhood in the city and downtown, you might find up to a quarter of the school consists of socially aspiring lower income children whose parents are desperately trying to keep their kids out of gangs and travel into school from significantly further away than the ones who just walk to school. This may be subsequently compounded if there are 2 or 3 other schools in the zone that restrict their roll and cater their offering towards wealthier, more upmarket / exclusive parents.
This gives the school an interesting and diverse student body that enriches the educational experience, but also means that your school decile might be assessed (and therefor funded) as if it were a mid-decile school because of surrounding zone, but actually have an enroled body that is probably at least 1 if not 2 deciles lower.
That's not really anything to do with the situation at hand, but an entirely different issue to do with school funding. And an entirely different moral dilemma! Is it better to go to the poorer, underfunded school that at least opens its doors to those seeking improvement and is filled with a really diverse body of students who are supported by parents who have literally gone out of their way to provide the best opportunity available to their kid, or leave to the better funded school full of wealthy white kids whose parents don't want them to mix with the browns?
Fishman if you want to keep going further, push two main points.
Firstly as you said, what training does a nine year old have to administer first aid (re: none)
Secondly I would ask how are they providing duty of care in this situation when a student is injured.
Thirdly (I know I said two) ask them how it works even there is a major, time critical how will students know to go to a teacher rather than this triage desk.
I would push hard on duty of care, because frankly they have none and it’s one of their key responsibilities as teachers.
Yeah, we're going to take a day or so to think about this, but we're probably going to raise this again as so far we're not really satisfied with what occurred or the proposed steps taken to mitigate the chance of it happening again.
My wife is on the school board and we are socially connected to one of the school staff, so we're in a privileged position of having multiple avenues of access to raise the issue.
But I thought the answers I got today were sufficiently surprising that I felt the need to update the thread about it so we could all be whiteguyblinks.gif together.
We followed up with the school and it seems that part of the reason it was so poorly handled is that triage for 'minor incidents' is handled by the older children at the school (i.e. literally 9-year-olds), presumably as part of some child health ownership initiative.
The first aid station is manned by 9 & 10 year olds.
For basic cuts and grazes requiring no more treatment than a band aid, they are empowered to administer that without supervision.
I have fourteen years in healthcare as a nurse, CRNA, and hundreds of volunteer activities.
@Fishman This is one of the most fucking wild ass things I've ever heard of.
If you keep pressing see if in all the paperwork you signed to go to school there was any mention of a child led triage center.
That's great you have the connections to do something about it, but I want to make three points.
First, many broken bones, particularly that of the upper arm, are difficult to diagnose correctly without an x-ray by even experienced providers. The likelihood of a kid falling and getting triaged by other children who don't know to do simple range of motion testing would have no idea a kid had a broken elbow or collarbone. That's increased by the pronounced shock state of children and how they're terrible at vocalizing pain.
Two, at no point in any healthcare providers training do they triage or practice on each other without oversight. This school has no first aid oversight because the CHILDREN have to notify the teacher.
Three, why would this school, or any school, want the liability of missing a diagnosis, sending a kid home with an injury, and leaning on the defense of "Well, the nine year old at the first aid station said it was fine?" Are they trying to get sued for every last dime and have the school closed? There's a reason why school nurses are trained to send anything remotely threatening to the ED and it isn't because they couldn't handle it.
Is there a school nurse? Who handles the kids with asthma or diabetes? Is that reserved for the 'tweens?
I feel like I sound hysterical here, but the failure of the school to protect their students is just staggering.
When we were discussing how it occurred that my child was treated and sent home having been provided with an inadequate level of care, the staff member we were talking to managed to turn it around on us as parents! Asking why we didn't inspect the wound when the child came home with a bandaid, and stating that it was the assumption of the school that a parent would investigate all injuries once they came home, as if the injury wasn't already 4 hours old by the end of the school day and already closed, and still another 3 hours after that before they were seen by a parent, because after school care is a thing.
This is the part where I would've lost my calm and ripped someone's fucking head off in a very public, very belittling manner
Here's a question for anyone well-travelled or with teens. We are doing a road trip next month for a bowling tournament. Essentially, we leave Maine 7/6, have to be in Indianapolis 7/8 for a competition 7/9. We're then in the city until the 16th or 17th depending on how the kids bowl (our son and two of his friends). We have to be back in Maine on the 20th.
I'm hoping to see if anyone has any suggested fun things to hit that teenagers and parents would like - the boys are 16. What I'm thinking is on the drive there, the quickest path is north, so we crash the first night in Syracuse or Buffalo (we've seen the falls, so no big planned tourism thing on this leg). We then do night 2 in Cleveland and do the Rock and Rock Hall of Fame. We hit Indianapolis on the 8th and do competitions - the exception being that Thursday the 15th they only bowl in the morning so we may drive to the Cincinnati Zoo since it sounds more impressive than the one in Indianapolis. We're thinking a speedway tour should be squeezed in there some day too.
Then, Fri/Sat is only if they qualify - so our thinking is Louisville Friday or Saturday. My wife and I were thinking maybe of spending the night in Louisville and continuing to a day in West Virginia because we have a goal to hit all 50 states and when else are you going to really target going to West Virginia and Kentucky from Maine? The two largest printed names on the map in WV that we could hit would be Huntington or Charleston - any folks in that area with ideas?
Then we'd head back through the usual northeastern states - we've thought about doing Gettysburg on the way home because the wife would like to see that (we've done Philly a few years ago).
So, hivemind of the forums, any suggested things we must do in northern NY, Cleveland, Indianapolis, Kentucky, WV or the path back home?
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Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
The frustrating thing I will need to add, is that a small fundamental I fucking love that idea of having a kid triage centre, it puts so much ownership back on the kids being responsible for things. But shit there are so many problems with letting kids be in charge of something this important, why would you not spot these issues, like immediately?
Here's a question for anyone well-travelled or with teens. We are doing a road trip next month for a bowling tournament. Essentially, we leave Maine 7/6, have to be in Indianapolis 7/8 for a competition 7/9. We're then in the city until the 16th or 17th depending on how the kids bowl (our son and two of his friends). We have to be back in Maine on the 20th.
I'm hoping to see if anyone has any suggested fun things to hit that teenagers and parents would like - the boys are 16. What I'm thinking is on the drive there, the quickest path is north, so we crash the first night in Syracuse or Buffalo (we've seen the falls, so no big planned tourism thing on this leg). We then do night 2 in Cleveland and do the Rock and Rock Hall of Fame. We hit Indianapolis on the 8th and do competitions - the exception being that Thursday the 15th they only bowl in the morning so we may drive to the Cincinnati Zoo since it sounds more impressive than the one in Indianapolis. We're thinking a speedway tour should be squeezed in there some day too.
Then, Fri/Sat is only if they qualify - so our thinking is Louisville Friday or Saturday. My wife and I were thinking maybe of spending the night in Louisville and continuing to a day in West Virginia because we have a goal to hit all 50 states and when else are you going to really target going to West Virginia and Kentucky from Maine? The two largest printed names on the map in WV that we could hit would be Huntington or Charleston - any folks in that area with ideas?
Then we'd head back through the usual northeastern states - we've thought about doing Gettysburg on the way home because the wife would like to see that (we've done Philly a few years ago).
So, hivemind of the forums, any suggested things we must do in northern NY, Cleveland, Indianapolis, Kentucky, WV or the path back home?
Let me know how it goes, I'm planning a road trip to Western Virginia in July with my 9 and 13 year old, so it might be a similar experience. (And if anyone can give recommendations for the Western VA/NC region that would be great too!)
DisruptedCapitalist on
"Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
Here's a question for anyone well-travelled or with teens. We are doing a road trip next month for a bowling tournament. Essentially, we leave Maine 7/6, have to be in Indianapolis 7/8 for a competition 7/9. We're then in the city until the 16th or 17th depending on how the kids bowl (our son and two of his friends). We have to be back in Maine on the 20th.
I'm hoping to see if anyone has any suggested fun things to hit that teenagers and parents would like - the boys are 16. What I'm thinking is on the drive there, the quickest path is north, so we crash the first night in Syracuse or Buffalo (we've seen the falls, so no big planned tourism thing on this leg). We then do night 2 in Cleveland and do the Rock and Rock Hall of Fame. We hit Indianapolis on the 8th and do competitions - the exception being that Thursday the 15th they only bowl in the morning so we may drive to the Cincinnati Zoo since it sounds more impressive than the one in Indianapolis. We're thinking a speedway tour should be squeezed in there some day too.
Then, Fri/Sat is only if they qualify - so our thinking is Louisville Friday or Saturday. My wife and I were thinking maybe of spending the night in Louisville and continuing to a day in West Virginia because we have a goal to hit all 50 states and when else are you going to really target going to West Virginia and Kentucky from Maine? The two largest printed names on the map in WV that we could hit would be Huntington or Charleston - any folks in that area with ideas?
Then we'd head back through the usual northeastern states - we've thought about doing Gettysburg on the way home because the wife would like to see that (we've done Philly a few years ago).
So, hivemind of the forums, any suggested things we must do in northern NY, Cleveland, Indianapolis, Kentucky, WV or the path back home?
I'm from Cleveland and live in Cincinnati so I can help a bit. Rock Hall is cool if you haven't done it before. Depending on time, I'd also recommend the Natural History Museum (https://www.cmnh.org/) if you want more structured museum things to do. If you're staying in or near downtown, the West Side Market (http://westsidemarket.org/) is really cool and you can find some neat boutique or international cooking stuff and snacks.
You're right, Cincinnati has a great zoo (it was recently ranked #1 in the country!) and I love it so much we have a family membership. If the weather is real crummy you can visit the Cincinnati Museum Center (https://www.cincymuseum.org/) which just reopened post-COVID and the Children's Museum is opening July 1. They also have an OmniMax theater. For restaurant scene, check out the neighborhood called Over-The-Rhine. Depending on you and your family's tastes I can probably find you a great restaurant in your price range, feel free to PM. There are oodles of bourbon distilleries in KY within 90 minutes of Cincinnati if that's your jam.
If there's anything your kids are really into let me know and can try to do a bit of research.
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Finally, this weekend we decided to finally go bottoms off. It's been a bit of a struggle, and she'd definitely rather continue wearing diapers "until I'm a grownup", but I think we are getting somewhere. A couple of small pee accident, plus three times sitting down and peeing unprompted. Still haven't gotten her to poo in the potty though, she seems content holding it until nap/bed time.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Church-NextStep2-Wood-Elongated-Slow-Close-Toilet-Seat/1001839530
We started with a stand-alone kids potty and moved up to this exact seat a few months ago. It seems to be working pretty well, and I may get one for the downstairs toilet as well.
I like that he can’t just slam the lid closed. He likes that he can let the lid go and he can watch it slowly rest into place. (Also, it’s $10 cheaper at Target
But then there’s pooping. He just refuses to do it on the potty. Needs a diaper/pull up, every day at the same time.
We’ve tried bribing with candy for pooping, we’ve bought special toys we told him he can hold on the potty and keep if he poops. I’ve told him I’ll buy him a ride-on atv if he poops (and the neighbor kids have one so he’s seen how fun it can be).
Nope. He just wants to keep doing what we’ve been doing.
When I felt my kids were just about there and ready to just go for it, there were some naked days. Then just wearing underwear and dealing with a few accidents.
Dang, not even for an ATV?
Ellie's best friend came over for a play date today and by the time dinner was on the table, there has been at least three separate "in not playing with you" breakdown into tears fights.
Then his parents came over for dinner and things got worse somehow. Best friend actually bit his father, there were more, "I'm not talking to you" things.
But finally things were ok, and the left and I'm so very lucky with the child that I have, y'all.
Who has a five year old, without extra circumstances, that still bites.
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Also, please tell me that my expectations of a child not biting others by five isn't just wildly out there? Like, that should be a thing that's been taught as unacceptable before five, right?
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It's unacceptable and they know it, probably won't do it with strangers. But their own parents are placed in a separate container in their brain. I'm ashamed to admit that my kid tried to bite me as well this weekend, I know he was super tired, but it was still unacceptable. I held them in my "loving embrace"/headlock for a good 10 minutes to calm him down. It really sucked, soured the whole weekend for me and I couldn't even tell my partner because of her mental health issues. confessionbear.jpg.
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WRT more than one child, it is a very touchy subject for me. We always wanted more than 1 child, but when my partner's health took a nosedive and the birth was a medical rollercoaster I just couldn't imagine raising another kid. It took my partner a lot longer to come to terms with this, but I think we are on the same page now. Still: if only things would have gone differently we would totally have 2 kids.
When I was in 1st grade (so 5-6) I bit a kid at school, so I would say some kids just get there faster than others.
In child Kayne's defense that was literally the only time I bit anyone ever. It's entirely possible your kid's friend was over excited from the playdate and exhibiting behavior that is otherwise rare for the.
They still made my mom come and take me home for the day :biggrin:
Understanding that I probably have one of the best of all possible scenarios (both the same gender, year and a half apart, generally good natured, 10 and 8 so minimal hormones in play) I can say that having two kids has been completely priceless during this past year. I have absolutely no idea how anyone with 1 kid coped with being quarantined with them and I don't know what either of my daughters would have done without the other.
I think a lot of you in the thread have little ones and I think it's important to say, and repeat, that the amount of literal physical work you have to do with your kids has a very inverse relationship to how old they are. You spend the first fiveish years just keeping them alive and it's really a huge amount of work but that tapers off and you start having to do a lot more soft skills work with emotional and mental development that's taxing in its own way but not quite as harrowing as the early "where are they/what are the eating/should they bee eating that/have they eaten real food recently enough/do we have enough real food on hand/there's another diaper/guess I need to do laundry/is there detergent/did I close the gate behind me/what was that noise/wait where'd they crawl to now" cycle.
Thanks everyone who provided feedback on this. His hand is healing, with no sign of significant infection, but it has been pretty ugly and I feel the poor initial treatment has made healing unnecessarily painful and slow.
We followed up with the school and it seems that part of the reason it was so poorly handled is that triage for 'minor incidents' is handled by the older children at the school (i.e. literally 9-year-olds), presumably as part of some child health ownership initiative.
I ... have more questions.
But that just sounds very much not ok.
Do you have another school in zone?
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We let 9 year olds run the triage at our ER I don't see what the problem is. They've only killed 3 people this month.
Seriously though I cannot understand the thought process that lead to that particular task being 'health ownership'. Like, help go get the bandaids at the direction of the adult, maybe. Should be more like, pick which healthy snack option we're doing today or something not 'diagnose and treat injuries'.
I actually think that's a really cool idea, with two super important caveats: 1) the parents of the volunteering kids have to agree, and 2) there have to be supervising adults to make sure the correct decisions are made. With both of those, this is a fun way to get both "leadership" soft skills and important "how to treat basic injury" experience.
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The school either:
1. Literally has nine year olds doing a job that is even difficult for adults
2. Falsely blamed a bunch of nine year olds for a mistake made by an adult
I'm not sure which option is worse.
The first aid station is manned by 9 & 10 year olds.
For basic cuts and grazes requiring no more treatment than a band aid, they are empowered to administer that without supervision. Maybe wipe the cut or graze with an disinfectant wipe, first.
If there's anything needing more than just a band aid, they bring one of the staff from reception, who all have first aid training.
Who decides if a wound is more serious and they need to bother an adult? The 9 or 10 year olds in the first aid station.
So yeah, triage, assessment, and treatment of this injury were done by children only slightly older than a PS4.
If I hadn't personally just experienced it, I could honestly believe this was a made up scenario for a hypothetical case study in an exam on system process and design.
As my wife observed, she now has an answer as to why, when she looked at the injury under the band-aid, how any adult could have looked at that injury and thought the treatment of it was good enough. The answer is, at no point in this process was an adult involved. A 9 year old looked at a nasty skin tear, saw it was (just) small enough that it could be covered by a band aid, put on a plaster without properly cleaning out the wound, and wrote 'graze' into the incident log.
But wait, there's more!
When we were discussing how it occurred that my child was treated and sent home having been provided with an inadequate level of care, the staff member we were talking to managed to turn it around on us as parents! Asking why we didn't inspect the wound when the child came home with a bandaid, and stating that it was the assumption of the school that a parent would investigate all injuries once they came home, as if the injury wasn't already 4 hours old by the end of the school day and already closed, and still another 3 hours after that before they were seen by a parent, because after school care is a thing.
And the answer to as to why we wouldn't immediately check every injury like a paranoid helicopter parent is that when we, as parents, see a band-aid on a child from an injury sustained at school, we make a not-unreasonable assumption that the child has been subjected to an adequate level of care and that the treatment administered was sufficient to the wound such that we shouldn't need to check every bump and scrape immediately, and instead only inspect it at such times as when we might consider changing the dressing. An assumption that, it appears, is apparently unexpectedly hopeful.
When the point was raised that we have just experienced a system process failure and that we have an actual demonstrable example of this, the solution offered was that when new entrants (5 year olds) get treated this is also notified to the child's teacher post-treatment. I'm not sure how this is supposed to help triage failures for, say, 6 year olds, but shit, at least they're trying, I guess.
Maybe I can ask one of these 9-year-olds about process design analysis for catastrophic failure scenarios, see what they come up with.
I get that the teachers may be stretched and short staffed and facing burnout etc. And that adding another duty on isn't really something they want. I get that and I sympathize.
But
That's just not good enough.
There should be an adult at the first aid station overseeing the 9 year olds. Hire a nurse. Get a parent or guardian volunteer.
I can't imagine that you are in a low decile zone with super limited resources. What the ever loving hell.
Edit: not that any level of decile is an appropriate excuse for that lack of care. And I'd be just as angry in decile 1 as I would at 10.
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Firstly as you said, what training does a nine year old have to administer first aid (re: none)
Secondly I would ask how are they providing duty of care in this situation when a student is injured.
Thirdly (I know I said two) ask them how it works even there is a major, time critical how will students know to go to a teacher rather than this triage desk.
I would push hard on duty of care, because frankly they have none and it’s one of their key responsibilities as teachers.
Satans..... hints.....
Funny story about deciles: they're set by the socio-economic status of the surrounding suburb, not the socio-economic status of the enrolled students.
So, if, for instance, you're the only school in a semi-gentrified suburb that doesn't restrict its roll to out-of-zone enrolments, and also a short distance from an on-ramp directly between the lowest-income neighbourhood in the city and downtown, you might find up to a quarter of the school consists of socially aspiring lower income children whose parents are desperately trying to keep their kids out of gangs and travel into school from significantly further away than the ones who just walk to school. This may be subsequently compounded if there are 2 or 3 other schools in the zone that restrict their roll and cater their offering towards wealthier, more upmarket / exclusive parents.
This gives the school an interesting and diverse student body that enriches the educational experience, but also means that your school decile might be assessed (and therefor funded) as if it were a mid-decile school because of surrounding zone, but actually have an enroled body that is probably at least 1 if not 2 deciles lower.
That's not really anything to do with the situation at hand, but an entirely different issue to do with school funding. And an entirely different moral dilemma! Is it better to go to the poorer, underfunded school that at least opens its doors to those seeking improvement and is filled with a really diverse body of students who are supported by parents who have literally gone out of their way to provide the best opportunity available to their kid, or leave to the better funded school full of wealthy white kids whose parents don't want them to mix with the browns?
Yeah, we're going to take a day or so to think about this, but we're probably going to raise this again as so far we're not really satisfied with what occurred or the proposed steps taken to mitigate the chance of it happening again.
My wife is on the school board and we are socially connected to one of the school staff, so we're in a privileged position of having multiple avenues of access to raise the issue.
But I thought the answers I got today were sufficiently surprising that I felt the need to update the thread about it so we could all be whiteguyblinks.gif together.
What.
The.
Fuck.
@Fishman This is one of the most fucking wild ass things I've ever heard of.
If you keep pressing see if in all the paperwork you signed to go to school there was any mention of a child led triage center.
That's great you have the connections to do something about it, but I want to make three points.
First, many broken bones, particularly that of the upper arm, are difficult to diagnose correctly without an x-ray by even experienced providers. The likelihood of a kid falling and getting triaged by other children who don't know to do simple range of motion testing would have no idea a kid had a broken elbow or collarbone. That's increased by the pronounced shock state of children and how they're terrible at vocalizing pain.
Two, at no point in any healthcare providers training do they triage or practice on each other without oversight. This school has no first aid oversight because the CHILDREN have to notify the teacher.
Three, why would this school, or any school, want the liability of missing a diagnosis, sending a kid home with an injury, and leaning on the defense of "Well, the nine year old at the first aid station said it was fine?" Are they trying to get sued for every last dime and have the school closed? There's a reason why school nurses are trained to send anything remotely threatening to the ED and it isn't because they couldn't handle it.
Is there a school nurse? Who handles the kids with asthma or diabetes? Is that reserved for the 'tweens?
I feel like I sound hysterical here, but the failure of the school to protect their students is just staggering.
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This is the part where I would've lost my calm and ripped someone's fucking head off in a very public, very belittling manner
I'm hoping to see if anyone has any suggested fun things to hit that teenagers and parents would like - the boys are 16. What I'm thinking is on the drive there, the quickest path is north, so we crash the first night in Syracuse or Buffalo (we've seen the falls, so no big planned tourism thing on this leg). We then do night 2 in Cleveland and do the Rock and Rock Hall of Fame. We hit Indianapolis on the 8th and do competitions - the exception being that Thursday the 15th they only bowl in the morning so we may drive to the Cincinnati Zoo since it sounds more impressive than the one in Indianapolis. We're thinking a speedway tour should be squeezed in there some day too.
Then, Fri/Sat is only if they qualify - so our thinking is Louisville Friday or Saturday. My wife and I were thinking maybe of spending the night in Louisville and continuing to a day in West Virginia because we have a goal to hit all 50 states and when else are you going to really target going to West Virginia and Kentucky from Maine? The two largest printed names on the map in WV that we could hit would be Huntington or Charleston - any folks in that area with ideas?
Then we'd head back through the usual northeastern states - we've thought about doing Gettysburg on the way home because the wife would like to see that (we've done Philly a few years ago).
So, hivemind of the forums, any suggested things we must do in northern NY, Cleveland, Indianapolis, Kentucky, WV or the path back home?
Satans..... hints.....
9 year olds aren't preschool.
Cedar Point is in northern Ohio.
Let me know how it goes, I'm planning a road trip to Western Virginia in July with my 9 and 13 year old, so it might be a similar experience. (And if anyone can give recommendations for the Western VA/NC region that would be great too!)
I'm from Cleveland and live in Cincinnati so I can help a bit. Rock Hall is cool if you haven't done it before. Depending on time, I'd also recommend the Natural History Museum (https://www.cmnh.org/) if you want more structured museum things to do. If you're staying in or near downtown, the West Side Market (http://westsidemarket.org/) is really cool and you can find some neat boutique or international cooking stuff and snacks.
You're right, Cincinnati has a great zoo (it was recently ranked #1 in the country!) and I love it so much we have a family membership. If the weather is real crummy you can visit the Cincinnati Museum Center (https://www.cincymuseum.org/) which just reopened post-COVID and the Children's Museum is opening July 1. They also have an OmniMax theater. For restaurant scene, check out the neighborhood called Over-The-Rhine. Depending on you and your family's tastes I can probably find you a great restaurant in your price range, feel free to PM. There are oodles of bourbon distilleries in KY within 90 minutes of Cincinnati if that's your jam.
If there's anything your kids are really into let me know and can try to do a bit of research.