why did you marry someone that would have to give you permission to do something for a weekend?
just go, and if she acts like she wont, go anyway. It's a weekend, she'll live.
Oh..wow.
You'll learn one day.
Aye I think, with most women, if you "just went", your stuff would be on the front lawn when you returned. ;-) But all that's been resolved anyways, she's excited to go now. The OP was from a while ago
why did you marry someone that would have to give you permission to do something for a weekend?
just go, and if she acts like she wont, go anyway. It's a weekend, she'll live.
Oh..wow.
You'll learn one day.
Aye I think, with most women, if you "just went", your stuff would be on the front lawn when you returned. ;-) But all that's been resolved anyways, she's excited to go now. The OP was from a while ago
I'm actually inclined to agree with Shauk, so long as funds held in common aren't involved. Any marriage where permission has to be sought just to go somewhere is an unequal relationship. So long as no previous arrangments are abrogated, both my wife and I frequently announce to each other what we plan to do separately. Why should either of us seek permission? Does either of us control the other, are either of us the superior and the other the inferior? (This could, especially with having to care for a child, be abused, but such abuse of a commonly beneficial system would be a symptom of an unhealthy relationship. As the relationship is healthy and supportive, no abuse has yet occurred.)
Maybe I'm just lucky to have found an equitable and more-rational-than-average woman, but I think (once again outside of the use of common funds) anybody who has to ask permission to go places has lost ownership of themselves. These people are "whipped".
why did you marry someone that would have to give you permission to do something for a weekend?
just go, and if she acts like she wont, go anyway. It's a weekend, she'll live.
Oh..wow.
You'll learn one day.
Aye I think, with most women, if you "just went", your stuff would be on the front lawn when you returned. ;-) But all that's been resolved anyways, she's excited to go now. The OP was from a while ago
I'm actually inclined to agree with Shauk, so long as funds held in common aren't involved. Any marriage where permission has to be sought just to go somewhere is an unequal relationship. So long as no previous arrangments are abrogated, both my wife and I frequently announce to each other what we plan to do separately. Why should either of us seek permission? Does either of us control the other, are either of us the superior and the other the inferior? (This could, especially with having to care for a child, be abused, but such abuse of a commonly beneficial system would be a symptom of an unhealthy relationship. As the relationship is healthy and supportive, no abuse has yet occurred.)
Maybe I'm just lucky to have found an equitable and more-rational-than-average woman, but I think (once again outside of the use of common funds) anybody who has to ask permission to go places has lost ownership of themselves. These people are "whipped".
I guess I'm just old fashioned. All our funds are considered "common". As we are in a relationship with eachother, we see it as a good idea to clear something with the other person before we just do it.
It's not a control issue, it's mutually agreeing on things.
EDIT: Also, let me say, it's not that I think how your marriage works is wrong, or that mine is right, that is simply how our relationship works. Different people get along differently, and the world goes 'round.
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Maybe I'm just lucky to have found an equitable and more-rational-than-average woman, but I think (once again outside of the use of common funds) anybody who has to ask permission to go places has lost ownership of themselves. These people are "whipped".
Soooooo, you're labelling women irrational or less rational than men by default - that your wife is the anomaly. Being rational has nothing to do with which sex organs you have or which gender you date.
I agree with VThornheart - in a truly equitable partnership then both participants needs and desires should be taken into account in addition to any common interests. Taking off on a trip unplanned and unannounced is simply rude and disrespectful whether you're spending your own money or not. If you can't talk to your partner (male OR female) about the basics, then you should reassess your relationship status.
KaitouAyashi on
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Letting your S.O. know your intentions is always a good rule of thumb. But I agree, by actually asking permission to go somewhere kinda implies that someone holds control over your actions.
I haven't gone since the first year, because I was utterly unable to convince my wife (who wasn't my wife that first year... I went with my roommates) that it was worth going to.
Maybe he just didn't want to go to PAX without her? Or money was an issue?
I dunno... I don't really want to see this thread explode into a battle of the sexes. It started off so happy.
Well, it's really the money more than anything, to reply to everyone's concerns.
It would be utterly unfair of me to go to PAX for the weekend (spending the money it would cost to get there, eat there, tickets, and hotel) without getting her permission, and at least attempting to see if she'd want to go along. That'd represent a large portion of our monthly income (and a large portion of our yearly free income, for that matter ), and I feel it'd be horrible of me to just up and go, using up that large chunk of money entirely for myself. I wouldn't want her to do that to me, that's for sure... we only have so much money to go around. So if I was going to spend that kind of money, I wanted her to be able to go with me and enjoy it too.
On top of that, her birthday's right before PAX and our wedding anniversary is the day after PAX... so I really didn't want to be where she wasn't at for either (or both) of those events.
I was either going with her, or not going at all... that was how I looked at it given the convergence of situations.
EDIT: Also, I felt that if she gave it a shot, she'd really enjoy it. But the concerns above were the ones that made me decide that this needed to be a decision we made together.
Maybe one day, if we're making a lot of money, I'd go do something this large on my own... but for the time being, I'd like something this expensive to be something we can either share together, or I'd better spend the money on something that we can both enjoy. It's going to be a lot of student loan payments from now before that situation changes. But even then, I think I'd still want to tell her about it and ask if she was okay with it. It just seems... right. I can't explain why, just something inside me says it's the right thing to do.
Maybe I'm just lucky to have found an equitable and more-rational-than-average woman, but I think (once again outside of the use of common funds) anybody who has to ask permission to go places has lost ownership of themselves. These people are "whipped".
Soooooo, you're labelling women irrational or less rational than men by default - that your wife is the anomaly. Being rational has nothing to do with which sex organs you have or which gender you date.
I agree with VThornheart - in a truly equitable partnership then both participants needs and desires should be taken into account in addition to any common interests. Taking off on a trip unplanned and unannounced is simply rude and disrespectful whether you're spending your own money or not. If you can't talk to your partner (male OR female) about the basics, then you should reassess your relationship status.
I find all these assumptions amusing. Like any quality of human development, rationality is a spectrum. By way of the irresistable nature of the curve of human statistics, most people are average. To say that somebody is 'smart' would be to say that they exceed average, so if I said 'my wife is a smart woman' does this mean, by some twist of reasoning, that I am saying 'my wife is smart for a woman' which would be impugning the female gender? This is what is being made out to be the case. All I said was my wife was more rational than average, not "as women go" or anything that actually connotes the stereotypical chauvanist "women are irrational" position.
I also don't "take off uplanned and unannounced" to the contrary I even specified that my wife and I announce to each other what we're doing all the time, we just don't ask each other's permission. Permission is something granted by authority. People in a partnership shouldn't have authority over each other (Biblical Christian marriages aside). If either of us has an ability to deny the other arbitrarily, there's no possibility that our relationship is equal. It would be the very defined opposite of equality.
EDIT: BTW, VThornheart: as your case so clearly falls into the region of ethics that includes the outlay of large amounts of comingled funds, of course it is natural for you to ask. I was and have been arguing specific other abstracts because everybody jumped on Shauk in an absolutist way.
I understand where you're coming from Turtle, but in my case the denial isn't arbitrary: it wasn't even my wife that demanded it of me. In many ways, I demanded it of myself.
I recognized that in order to make this trip, it'd take a large investment of our small budget for free activities. Noticing that I'd feel hurt if my wife decided to use a large amount of our free activity money purely on herself, I felt like I should either include her in it or find something better to do with that money.
On top of that is the fact that I might not get back in time for our wedding anniversary. (I wouldn't miss her birthday given when PAX starts, but it's likely that I wouldn't get home until our anniversary was almost over)
With those two things combined, if she didn't toss my stuff out on the front lawn when I came back if I went, I'd be concerned for her ability and willingness to stand up for herself. I mean, when we decided to pool our resources, it wasn't so that one person can take it and use it all on himself. I know my wife wouldn't take that (and that she wouldn't do that to me in turn), and that ability to call me out when I make bad decisions is one of the qualities I like about her. So that brought us to this post originally, and the developments since.
Anyways, let's not argue about this stuff if at all possible. I imagine no two people have the same relationship with their spouse, and I think miscommunication is resulting in unintended hurt feelings (I don't think Turtle meant to insult anyone with his prior comment, for example).
I understand where you're coming from Turtle, but in my case the denial isn't arbitrary: it wasn't even my wife that demanded it of me. In many ways, I demanded it of myself.
I recognized that in order to make this trip, it'd take a large investment of our small budget for free activities. Noticing that I'd feel hurt if my wife decided to use a large amount of our free activity money purely on herself, I felt like I should either include her in it or find something better to do with that money.
On top of that is the fact that I might not get back in time for our wedding anniversary. (I wouldn't miss her birthday given when PAX starts, but it's likely that I wouldn't get home until our anniversary was almost over)
With those two things combined, if she didn't toss my stuff out on the front lawn when I came back if I went, I'd be concerned for her ability and willingness to stand up for herself. I mean, when we decided to pool our resources, it wasn't so that one person can take it and use it all on himself. I know my wife wouldn't take that (and that she wouldn't do that to me in turn), and that ability to call me out when I make bad decisions is one of the qualities I like about her. So that brought us to this post originally, and the developments since.
Anyways, let's not argue about this stuff if at all possible. I imagine no two people have the same relationship with their spouse, and I think miscommunication is resulting in unintended hurt feelings (I don't think Turtle meant to insult anyone with his prior comment, for example).
I know I'm just jumping in on the end of this conversation, but I just felt like saying that I agree with everything you just said. A trip like this should be discussed with your spouse, even if it is just detailing the trip and being open to any objections, even without the (very important) outlying factors. If you're married to someone, it's just not right to pack up go on a trip without taking your spouse's feelings into account. It's not about getting permission, it's about finding out and listening to what they want as well as what you want.
Maybe I'm just lucky to have found an equitable and more-rational-than-average woman, but I think (once again outside of the use of common funds) anybody who has to ask permission to go places has lost ownership of themselves. These people are "whipped".
Soooooo, you're labelling women irrational or less rational than men by default - that your wife is the anomaly. Being rational has nothing to do with which sex organs you have or which gender you date.
I agree with VThornheart - in a truly equitable partnership then both participants needs and desires should be taken into account in addition to any common interests. Taking off on a trip unplanned and unannounced is simply rude and disrespectful whether you're spending your own money or not. If you can't talk to your partner (male OR female) about the basics, then you should reassess your relationship status.
I find all these assumptions amusing. Like any quality of human development, rationality is a spectrum. By way of the irresistable nature of the curve of human statistics, most people are average. To say that somebody is 'smart' would be to say that they exceed average, so if I said 'my wife is a smart woman' does this mean, by some twist of reasoning, that I am saying 'my wife is smart for a woman' which would be impugning the female gender? This is what is being made out to be the case. All I said was my wife was more rational than average, not "as women go" or anything that actually connotes the stereotypical chauvanist "women are irrational" position.
I also don't "take off uplanned and unannounced" to the contrary I even specified that my wife and I announce to each other what we're doing all the time, we just don't ask each other's permission. Permission is something granted by authority. People in a partnership shouldn't have authority over each other (Biblical Christian marriages aside). If either of us has an ability to deny the other arbitrarily, there's no possibility that our relationship is equal. It would be the very defined opposite of equality.
I wasn't talking about "permission", or "authority" within relationships and tying it into your verbage, insinuating you were a chauvinist. (If I thought so, I'd come out and say it.)
You said that maybe your wife was "more rational than average woman". I'm just clarifying what you meant by that. The statement itself reads as thus: the average woman is not particularly rational. Even if it's NOT what you meant, the delivery wasn't the best; even Liger and BrokenAngel recognized it.
You didn't say "more rational than the average person". You specified women specifically as a group. I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything, just pointing out that your phrasing....may not have correctly explained what you were trying to convey and inadvertently insulted people.
KaitouAyashi on
[15:02] BigRed-Worky: i will nom all of your boxes
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Posts
just go, and if she acts like she wont, go anyway. It's a weekend, she'll live.
http://www.myspace.com/Shaukdotdj
Oh..wow.
You'll learn one day.
3DS Friend Code: 2707-1614-5576
PAX Prime 2014 Buttoneering!
Aye
I'm actually inclined to agree with Shauk, so long as funds held in common aren't involved. Any marriage where permission has to be sought just to go somewhere is an unequal relationship. So long as no previous arrangments are abrogated, both my wife and I frequently announce to each other what we plan to do separately. Why should either of us seek permission? Does either of us control the other, are either of us the superior and the other the inferior? (This could, especially with having to care for a child, be abused, but such abuse of a commonly beneficial system would be a symptom of an unhealthy relationship. As the relationship is healthy and supportive, no abuse has yet occurred.)
Maybe I'm just lucky to have found an equitable and more-rational-than-average woman, but I think (once again outside of the use of common funds) anybody who has to ask permission to go places has lost ownership of themselves. These people are "whipped".
I guess I'm just old fashioned. All our funds are considered "common". As we are in a relationship with eachother, we see it as a good idea to clear something with the other person before we just do it.
It's not a control issue, it's mutually agreeing on things.
EDIT: Also, let me say, it's not that I think how your marriage works is wrong, or that mine is right, that is simply how our relationship works. Different people get along differently, and the world goes 'round.
3DS Friend Code: 2707-1614-5576
PAX Prime 2014 Buttoneering!
Soooooo, you're labelling women irrational or less rational than men by default - that your wife is the anomaly. Being rational has nothing to do with which sex organs you have or which gender you date.
I agree with VThornheart - in a truly equitable partnership then both participants needs and desires should be taken into account in addition to any common interests. Taking off on a trip unplanned and unannounced is simply rude and disrespectful whether you're spending your own money or not. If you can't talk to your partner (male OR female) about the basics, then you should reassess your relationship status.
[15:02] Tajah: I like you BR but I'm not letting you nom my box
[15:02] BigRed-Worky: Did I mention I hate you all? cause i do
PAX Twitter Shitter~*~ Retired Bar Liaison: 2nd, 3rd, & 4th Annual Triwizard Drinking Tournament~*~
Ouch, man.
Seconded
Maybe he just didn't want to go to PAX without her? Or money was an issue?
I dunno... I don't really want to see this thread explode into a battle of the sexes. It started off so happy.
It would be utterly unfair of me to go to PAX for the weekend (spending the money it would cost to get there, eat there, tickets, and hotel) without getting her permission, and at least attempting to see if she'd want to go along. That'd represent a large portion of our monthly income (and a large portion of our yearly free income, for that matter
On top of that, her birthday's right before PAX and our wedding anniversary is the day after PAX... so I really didn't want to be where she wasn't at for either (or both) of those events.
I was either going with her, or not going at all... that was how I looked at it given the convergence of situations.
EDIT: Also, I felt that if she gave it a shot, she'd really enjoy it. But the concerns above were the ones that made me decide that this needed to be a decision we made together.
Maybe one day, if we're making a lot of money, I'd go do something this large on my own... but for the time being, I'd like something this expensive to be something we can either share together, or I'd better spend the money on something that we can both enjoy. It's going to be a lot of student loan payments from now before that situation changes.
I find all these assumptions amusing. Like any quality of human development, rationality is a spectrum. By way of the irresistable nature of the curve of human statistics, most people are average. To say that somebody is 'smart' would be to say that they exceed average, so if I said 'my wife is a smart woman' does this mean, by some twist of reasoning, that I am saying 'my wife is smart for a woman' which would be impugning the female gender? This is what is being made out to be the case. All I said was my wife was more rational than average, not "as women go" or anything that actually connotes the stereotypical chauvanist "women are irrational" position.
I also don't "take off uplanned and unannounced" to the contrary I even specified that my wife and I announce to each other what we're doing all the time, we just don't ask each other's permission. Permission is something granted by authority. People in a partnership shouldn't have authority over each other (Biblical Christian marriages aside). If either of us has an ability to deny the other arbitrarily, there's no possibility that our relationship is equal. It would be the very defined opposite of equality.
EDIT: BTW, VThornheart: as your case so clearly falls into the region of ethics that includes the outlay of large amounts of comingled funds, of course it is natural for you to ask. I was and have been arguing specific other abstracts because everybody jumped on Shauk in an absolutist way.
I recognized that in order to make this trip, it'd take a large investment of our small budget for free activities. Noticing that I'd feel hurt if my wife decided to use a large amount of our free activity money purely on herself, I felt like I should either include her in it or find something better to do with that money.
On top of that is the fact that I might not get back in time for our wedding anniversary. (I wouldn't miss her birthday given when PAX starts, but it's likely that I wouldn't get home until our anniversary was almost over)
With those two things combined, if she didn't toss my stuff out on the front lawn when I came back if I went, I'd be concerned for her ability and willingness to stand up for herself. I mean, when we decided to pool our resources, it wasn't so that one person can take it and use it all on himself. I know my wife wouldn't take that (and that she wouldn't do that to me in turn), and that ability to call me out when I make bad decisions is one of the qualities I like about her. So that brought us to this post originally, and the developments since.
Anyways, let's not argue about this stuff if at all possible. I imagine no two people have the same relationship with their spouse, and I think miscommunication is resulting in unintended hurt feelings (I don't think Turtle meant to insult anyone with his prior comment, for example).
I know I'm just jumping in on the end of this conversation, but I just felt like saying that I agree with everything you just said. A trip like this should be discussed with your spouse, even if it is just detailing the trip and being open to any objections, even without the (very important) outlying factors. If you're married to someone, it's just not right to pack up go on a trip without taking your spouse's feelings into account. It's not about getting permission, it's about finding out and listening to what they want as well as what you want.
I wasn't talking about "permission", or "authority" within relationships and tying it into your verbage, insinuating you were a chauvinist. (If I thought so, I'd come out and say it.)
You said that maybe your wife was "more rational than average woman". I'm just clarifying what you meant by that. The statement itself reads as thus: the average woman is not particularly rational. Even if it's NOT what you meant, the delivery wasn't the best; even Liger and BrokenAngel recognized it.
You didn't say "more rational than the average person". You specified women specifically as a group. I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything, just pointing out that your phrasing....may not have correctly explained what you were trying to convey and inadvertently insulted people.
[15:02] Tajah: I like you BR but I'm not letting you nom my box
[15:02] BigRed-Worky: Did I mention I hate you all? cause i do
PAX Twitter Shitter~*~ Retired Bar Liaison: 2nd, 3rd, & 4th Annual Triwizard Drinking Tournament~*~
I vote this get locked since its kind of derailed and the question has more or less been answered.
Now let's put it up to a vote, all in favor...
"Aye"
Motion passes
/bangs gavel